When is it too much?

[Marta2015]

I have been in a relationship for over 20 years and married over 10. Happy life, sex less frequent since arrival of kids but overall no problems. I went away with the kids for a few days and as soon as i arrived back husband tells me he's done something terrible. He saw something in the news about a website, went to check it out, started chatting to a woman and eventually went to meet her. He told me he realised as soon as he got in the car to go to the meeting that he was making a terrible mistake and that he could not live with the guilt hence he had to tell me. I asked him what happened during the meeting, he said it lasted 5 minutes and they parted. He told me that there had been no physical contact and the woman did not even know his real name. The following morning i asked a few more questions, i was clearly shocked he had done something like this, and went to work. When we got home I asked him to show me the email exchange. He tried to say no for 5 minutes saying i would have read these in the wrong way before he allowed me to see them. There were a total of 21 emails and, from the start, sex was the main topic of conversation and what they would do to each other at the meeting. He started saying straight away that the emails meant nothing and they were only fantasy. When i objected that the fantasy included real maps of the meeting place his response was that it did not mean anything and he was never going to act upon what he'd said. Only by reading the emails i discovered that he had met the woman on a dating site for married people and had a secret email account. I then discover that he had registered on this particular dating site and many more a year ago. Regardless what he told me about his guilt while going to the meeting, it turns out that he had emailed this woman 3 times after the meeting first pleading with her to meet again, then to at least keep in touch by email and, eventually,, minutes after telling me, to say he had made a mistake and he had confessed and they should not be in touch again.

 

By looking at his email i also discovered he had been in touch with other women from these sites before but never met them.

 

His side of the story is that he went on these sites as he was bored and never intended to do anything, he knew i'd be upset hence the secrecy but it was only a game. He thought i was not interested in sex with him anymore (all this while i thought the same of him) but was worried about saying anything in case i got upset. He was feeling boring and wanted to prove to himself he could do something mad, the exchange with this woman was only fantasy and he wants to be with me.

 

In the past 3 weeks i have asked every single question i could possibly think of, shared all my feelings and he has very patiently listened to everything always agreeing with me. However, i feel that while he's the one in the wrong, i am the one doing all the work to try and salvage the relationship. To this day he is still minimising the fact that, however much or little he did on these sites, a year of lying must mean something. I have tried my absolute best but i cannot see how i am ever going to trust him again and whether it is worth me even trying. Any wise words would be very appreciated!

 

Thanks so much

[StalwartMind]

The length if any relationship doesn't make any kind of behavior more or less okay. I don't condone behavior in any way which has direct consequence of hurting and betraying someone else. Clearly something in his mind, has made him feel, he didn't get from you and your relationship what he sought. No matter what there is no excuse for his behavior, to act on his own fantasies, regardless if it actually lead to something or not.

 

The sheer fact that he decided on doing something behind your back, spells problems on it's own. This is why I value communication and honesty so highly, because without it, you have a much greater risk of ending up in situations like this. In no way would I defend an individual who decides to do as he did, but at the same time I feel it's reasonable to share some perspective, which I feel is important too. Not everything is black and white.

 

I'm certain on some level, he does regret his actions, especially because he's not gone through with any of his fantasies, at least I'll assume so. On some level he probably has some kind of fear of you, or your reaction to some of his requests. When people have been together for long, and then suddenly someone discovers something they find interesting, but perhaps never talked about with their significant other, they can feel doubtful if it is even of interest. Maybe he does have some sexual fantasies, no matter what, if he had done the right thing, he would of talked to you about them.

 

While everyone put different effort into things, I do believe that he is the one who should be showing initiative, anything else would make me question that person's intentions. That said, there still is the possibility he is extremely frightened, as silly as it may sound , his own insecurity could be the reason he even started this solo adventure some years ago. None of it makes you feel any better, and I do think there is a great importance in trying to understand each other. Have you asked him what drove him to doing what he did, are there things he feel he can't discuss with you, etc.

 

Depending on what what you want and how you wish to approach this, there are always options. It's up to you to decide what you feel is right. I don't appreciate behavior as his myself, but I also understand at times people can react in ways they perhaps don't even intend to. Humans are complex and mysterious, in the end we all have to decide what we are willing to forgive and how much effort we want to put into anything. I think it's very easy for many couples to let things grow stale, especially if you get so used to each others routine that life becomes on auto pilot. Again speaking to each other, and not being afraid to move boundaries coupled with creativity can often be a blessing.

 

No matter what you do have a decision to make, it seems like you've spoken to him for a good bit, and he has listened. He did do you wrong, he should be the one to make an effort to show you, that he wants you and all he did was a mistake. Listening is one thing but actually showing you as well and making the effort to change is just as vital. I would not blindly trust someone again after being deceived, being skeptical is not something negative, everyone sensible should always be. In my book he needs to really do things, that you feel he should, in order to re-gain your trust. It may not be easy, but what he did isn't exactly a choice should come easy to a person in the first place. You are your own best guard, protect yourself and your interests and decide what you are willing to accept. I'm not one to judge or advice either way, it's up to you, there is no right or wrong choice here.

[Mr. Lucky]

In the past 3 weeks i have asked every single question i could possibly think of, shared all my feelings and he has very patiently listened to everything always agreeing with me. However, i feel that while he's the one in the wrong, i am the one doing all the work to try and salvage the relationship. To this day he is still minimising the fact that, however much or little he did on these sites, a year of lying must mean something. I have tried my absolute best but i cannot see how i am ever going to trust him again and whether it is worth me even trying. Any wise words would be very appreciated!

 

Thanks so much

 

At this point, what would you like to see happen? You can't change what he's done or his attitude about having done so.

 

Time to start giving some thought about what the best outcome for you would look like...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Marta2015]

Thank you for taking the time to share your views. We have spoken again this afternoon and he has shared more than he has done so far. I keep telling myself that his unsolicited confession must mean something but the emotional side of me takes prevalence sometimes. The pain is so big when i think about it that i keep being violently sick but i can also see he is hurting and this makes we wonder if there could be a future still together.

[pondhawk]

. I keep telling myself that his unsolicited confession must mean something

 

Hmmmm..... The Ashley Madison users name's and personal information was just made public yesterday.....

Is that the reason for his unsolicited confession??? Was he fearful you'd find out a different way? Was he trying to do damage control?

 

I highly doubt nothing happened. My Ex used that excuse too when I discovered his texting habit. He denied until he was blue in the face. He lied to my face while looking into my eyes. It wasn't until a few weeks later I had back & white proof of his sexual escapades in the form of his own emails.

 

I think you may want to go undercover and find truth on your own. Don't let on that you're doing this.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this....worst pain ever.

 

Look up Chump Lady....amazing help for your emotional well being.

[Try]

Hmmmm..... The Ashley Madison users name's and personal information was just made public yesterday.....

Is that the reason for his unsolicited confession??? Was he fearful you'd find out a different way? Was he trying to do damage control?

Unless the OP knows how to surf the Dark Web (that is where it was released) and was suspicious enough already that the OP was cheating, it was highly unlikely that she would have found out.

[Marta2015]

I had absolutely no clue of any of this (how stupid can one be!). The site he used was indeed Ashley Madison but he used fake name/email, no photos... (he's a techie and well aware how data can be leaked) so i do doubt that is the reason for the confession. As i said, he wrote to her after the meeting and the only clear point is that they did not have sex. Does this make it any better? Not sure to be honest...the deceit and broken trust are still there

[CarrieT]

Here's the thing about the Ashley Madison breach: Even with fake names, people are being traced by their billing information because it is a paid site.

 

You can do some more reconnaissance by figuring out how much he paid and for how long to belong to the site. That may tell you more about the depth of his deceptions. (Read about John Duggar who had TWO accounts).

 

That he came to you when the Ashley Madison data was released *is* very telling, in my opinion. His information is out there and/or perhaps he was involved with a woman who has threatened to tell you.

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this and wish you the best.

[Ms. Faust]

Unless the OP knows how to surf the Dark Web (that is where it was released) and was suspicious enough already that the OP was cheating, it was highly unlikely that she would have found out.

 

Forbes online had instructions on how to access it... A few people from another forum I visit have also accessed it. I believe it is becoming more accessible.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Ms. Faust

[angel.eyes]

I had absolutely no clue of any of this (how stupid can one be!). The site he used was indeed Ashley Madison but he used fake name/email, no photos... (he's a techie and well aware how data can be leaked) so i do doubt that is the reason for the confession. As i said, he wrote to her after the meeting and the only clear point is that they did not have sex. Does this make it any better? Not sure to be honest...the deceit and broken trust are still there

 

First, I'm sorry you're going through this. Unfortunately, I have a feeling you've barely touched the tip of the iceberg.

 

I'm not sure I would hang my hat on a "spontaneous" confession or nothing ever happening since he joined a year ago.

 

He may have used a fake name and no photos on the site, but he paid with a credit card? That credit card has his real identity. Ashley Madison stores the information associated with that credit card (including real name, real billing address) indefinitely in their database, even after the person cancels and pays to delete the account. The owners were threatened a couple of months ago that if they didn't start deleting people's real identities, as promised when you pay an extra fee, the data would be released. Ashley Madison's holding company did nothing about this. So two days ago, the first batch of cheaters, with their email addresses and actual identities got released. Lots of squirming, unhappy cheaters at the moment. Your husband signed up a year ago. Interesting coincidence that his conscience just got to him now and he "spontaneously" confessed.

 

Play gullible and naive while you do your own investigating...check his phone bill, texts, apps he may be using to communicate. Stick a GPS tracker on his car and see if he's where he claims to be. If you have access to his Apple account and he has an iPhone, you can also go online and track his (phone's) location. Even if he doesn't have an iPhone, some providers provide automatic tracking services for smartphones. (It's there as a child safety feature to track your kids movements if you've given them phones and/or to track your own phone down and disable it should it get stolen.)

 

Bottom line: I don't think he's giving you the full extent of the story, and won't unless forced to. Please do your own checking.

[Poutrew]

Well, you can play this game as well. Tell him that because you want to more fully understand his mindset over the past year, that you are going to set up your own account at the website and begin sexually charged conversations with several married men, and that within the year you will eventually meet one of these men at a hotel room for , er, research purposes only. Tell him, as you look lovingly into you hubby's eyes, "Trust me, nothing will happen, dear."

 

 

Where there is smoke, there is fire. Usually cheaters only confess the stuff they are going to get caught at, and it is usually only the tip of a big, dirty, iceberg. Sorry...

[Lois_Griffin]

Unless the OP knows how to surf the Dark Web (that is where it was released) and was suspicious enough already that the OP was cheating, it was highly unlikely that she would have found out.

NOT so.

 

There's a link you can find with just a little bit of searching and it allows you to search the database by email address.

 

So simple a 12 year old can find it within 5 minutes.

[Lois_Griffin]

I had absolutely no clue of any of this (how stupid can one be!). The site he used was indeed Ashley Madison but he used fake name/email, no photos... (he's a techie and well aware how data can be leaked) so i do doubt that is the reason for the confession. As i said, he wrote to her after the meeting and the only clear point is that they did not have sex. Does this make it any better? Not sure to be honest...the deceit and broken trust are still there

The ONLY reason you got a sudden 'confession' was NOT due to guilt, that's obvious.

 

He's scared sh*tless his information will be leaked to you. As another poster pointed out, it's his credit card information that will get his ass caught, not so much his phony email address.

 

Jesus, could he BE any more transparent?

[Marta2015]

As i said previously he's an IT geek and he used paypal on a fake name, address and prepaid credit card (i saw all the receipts in his email when i discovered the password) so i really struggle to see how the leak could compromise him. He had previously registered on the site about a year ago, not used it (i saw his activity on the profile) and actually went back when he heard about the leak on tv. The advice of paying him back by doing the same is pretty consistent with what i have told him already...will continue investigating in the meantime...just bought him new phone and hidden gps tracker already active! I have asked him 100s of times if there is anymore and told him that if anything else comes out that he has not told me he is out. See what happens...in the meantime i just wish the pain would go away even for 5 minutes

[ShatteredLady]

My heart goes out to you. When you say, "in the meantime i just wish the pain would go away even for 5 minutes." I know exactly what you mean. In my life I've obviously heard about betrayal, affairs etc. but until you've been there & actually felt this agonizing insanity you just can't get it. It's so brutal. Hugs.

[oldshirt]

My thoughts on Ashley Madison is there is not a single person on there that started out by exchanging recipes or playing World of Warcraft and then things developed into an inappropriate relationship.

 

 

To sign up on AM you have a single minded goal of getting some poontang on the side and there no other reason whatsoever to be on that site. It is purely for the sake of cheating outside your marriage.

 

 

There are porn sites where people can look at porn. There are vanilla dating sites where they can fantasize about their single dating days. There are swinger sites where you can seek out info and look into the swinger world.

 

 

But Ashley Madison has no other point or purpose other than the intentional and deliberate search for someone to cheat with. Period.

 

 

Guys also outnumber women 3 or 4 or more to 1. That means if he is actually meeting someone in the physical world, he is one of the dedicated if not lucky and successful ones.

 

 

The fact that he is on there at all speaks volumes.

[oldshirt]

.... everyone has their own threshold on what is too much and what isn't.

 

 

For me, being on Ashley Madison AT ALL would be too much regardless of whether they actually scored off of it or not.

[ShatteredLady]

I know many, many people...me & my H included who signed-up just to see what everyone was talking about! I think a large percentage of their membership is the same. You're not talking about someone just looking & judging. He went out & met a woman!! That's not playing. That's not silly titillation. That's taking a LOT of TIME chatting-up, flirting & PLANNING. Actually meeting someone is a HUGE step!! Are you sure that was a one off thing? I'd be so worried & so offended, disgusted, hurt.....

[bathtub-row]

He joined a website that is specifically designed for cheating. He used fake names so as not to get caught. He "confesses" to you at the same time Ashley Madison members are being exposed. After a year of being on the site, he suddenly confesses, and he has just now come across someone to meet. Nothing "happened" yet he begs this stranger to see him again.

 

Lies, lies, lies.

 

These are not the actions of a man who values his marriage. I'm sorry you're going through this because I know it hurts. Hate to tell you, but this is far worse than what he's telling you. The trust is gone. It's your call as to how much you're willing to put up with.

 

Btw, even if you don't know this, he does: fake name or not, PayPal or not, it all goes back to one thing - his bank account.

[Marta2015]

Thank you alk for your thoughts. I am still struggling to come to terms with what happened. His bank account it's completely clear of any transactions i do not recognise. Pay pal and prepaid credit cards on fake address were his ways of paying (2 transactions in total which i have seen). I frankly do not think i would have ever clicked anything was going on if he had not told me. All that said, my biggest question remains and it is what is stopping me from being able to look ahead. If he had realised hecwas moving from fantasy to dangerous real life as he was going to the meeting, why did he make contact with this woman again afterwards? He cannot quite explain this aside from saying that in his own screwed up head he wanted closure and answers. In my head, he knew exactly what he was doing, did not give two hoots about our relationship and was looking for another occasion to complete the unfinished business. He swears he loves me and this made him see a dark and nasty side he did not know about himself and he now realises he could never cheat on me or do this again. I am not sure i want to give him another chance considering he allowed the first woman who promised him sex to come between us. Thevsaga continues and the pain does not diminish...

[simps0n]

Marta, do you actually want to know the whole story?

 

As others said, I think he surely gives you just a small part of it. To me, it is more important if you both are willing to fix your relationship. I can definitely say he cares about you, otherwise he wouldn't say anything. He needs to do more than this though. He should share exactly what was the problem according to him. You should make it clear that your whole relationship depends on his honesty and actions.

 

It is worth considering visiting couple counselling service.

[simps0n]

A little hint: "sex less frequent" in your eyes translates to "[you] not interested in sex with him anymore". Sex is definitely (at least one of) the main reason behind his actions. He, as a man, really needs that from you and you probably underestimated that. Of course, it is not only your fault, it is two-sided act. But remember that men do love through their penis, not their heart or stomach.

 

In addition to counselling, after you clarify most of the things you want to know, I'd suggest you two having some period of time on your own (i.e. travelling/vacations are good idea) in order to refresh your minds.

 

Good luck!

[Lois_Griffin]

A little hint: "sex less frequent" in your eyes translates to "[you] not interested in sex with him anymore". Sex is definitely (at least one of) the main reason behind his actions. He, as a man, really needs that from you and you probably underestimated that. Of course, it is not only your fault, it is two-sided act. But remember that men do love through their penis, not their heart or stomach.

 

In addition to counselling, after you clarify most of the things you want to know, I'd suggest you two having some period of time on your own (i.e. travelling/vacations are good idea) in order to refresh your minds.

 

Good luck!

Yeah, it really sucks when women have kids through Immaculate Conception and their poor, deprived husbands - who had NOTHING to do with bringing these kids into the world - get 'deprived' of sex because of it. Not only that, but since the OP probably does 95% of the housework AND child-rearing, it's also ALL her fault that her poor, hapless husband - while laying on the couch most nights - doesn't get to 'love her' through his penis nearly as much as he'd like.

 

Poor, poor victim.

[Marta2015]

In addition to child-rearing and housework I also work full time and do a lot of work travel so sex has not been a priority. In addition to this, i am a very tactile and affectionate person and as my husband has always been much more reserved, i have forced myself to be less open in my love for him as i could see my open affection was sometimes making him uncomfortable. This turns out to have been what made him think i was not interested in him anymore physically. He now promised to be morebopen with his feelings but i have told him that trust is gone and words are meaningless. If he really wants me as much as he says he'll need to prove it with actions.i've always been the driving force in our relationship but by doing what he did he'sbproven he can take initiative. Now it's his chance to do so. Thanks so much to you all for your words, they are a lifeline in this dark time.

[simps0n]

Yeah, it really sucks when women have kids through Immaculate Conception and their poor, deprived husbands - who had NOTHING to do with bringing these kids into the world - get 'deprived' of sex because of it. Not only that, but since the OP probably does 95% of the housework AND child-rearing, it's also ALL her fault that her poor, hapless husband - while laying on the couch most nights - doesn't get to 'love her' through his penis nearly as much as he'd like.

 

Poor, poor victim.

 

Don't get me wrong, ladies. I have huge respect for women who can cope on their own. Note that many men not only love, but also think through their penis. That's not your fault, you just need to be aware of it.

 

Sorry to say it, but if you've been impregnated by a "poor, hapless husband" or any other form of a male you don't like, then that's due to your own bad choice.