Does anyone ever deserve physical abuse?

[thinkhappy]

My H and I have been married for 1.5 years. He is in his early 30s, and I am in my late 30s. This is his first marriage and my second. I was married for over 10 years to my ex-h. Our relationship has never been easy and I have always felt that he is a bit immature. More often than not, when he has a night out of drinking - especially if he's out with friends - he binge drinks. I am talking 20 drinks in one session. Granted this is over the course of an afternoon/evening, but I still think it's excessive.

 

Anyhow, his conflict resolution skills are AWFUL. He doesn't handle conflict well at all. If I say anything that isn't positive, even if it is to politely discuss something that is worrying me or making me uncomfortable, if it involves him...WATCH OUT. His nasty attitude comes out and he has told me the following in the past:

 

I hate you.

You're disgusting.

You're boring me.

You're dramatic.

You're horrible.

F*** you.

 

It's tough for me because my ex-h and I rarely fought. My ex-H never, ever, ever spoke to me like that. My ex-h is very submissive and my now h is anything but. He was used to it being his way or the highway for many years, and had no boundaries set by his parents growing up, so I know that is part of my H's issue...it's a power struggle for him. Plus, his relationships before me were with girls who were submissive and basically let him do whatever he wanted to without voicing their opinions. I am not like that -- and I'm not saying my way is the right way, but if there's conflict, I want to discuss it right then and there and resolve it together before it festers and grows into something that's an even bigger problem.

 

He has always been a little immature but things are definitely getting worse when conflict arises.

 

The problem is that my H has recently turned what I feel is abusive. A few months ago, he started losing control when things would get heated and he started pushing me, pinning me up against the wall, etc. The truth is that these are situations where we have been in our bedroom and arguing, usually with him being angry with me because his way of dealing with conflict is avoidance, and he just wants to get out of the house and tells me to f*** off...and that's when my insecurities set in and my compelling need to resolve the conflict sets in and I tell him no, don't leave. So I am blocking his way but not touching him, telling him just sit down, let's discuss this, etc. And he RAGES and he has SCREAMED in my face, pressed his forehead hard against mine, shoved me into the bathtub when we were arguing in the bathroom, pinned me up against things in our room, and just the other day, he put his hand around my neck and was pinning me up against the door.

 

These violent episodes have increased in frequency ever since the first time he did it, and he does sometimes warn me that he is about to lose it. The look in his eyes is frightening when he is doing this and he has told me he has visualized doing much worse to me. He has never flat out accepted full responsibility for his actions, even the day after when he has calmed down. He says I pushed him to do it (not physically, of course.) He said if I would just listen to him he wouldn't have to get physical with him.

 

Is that true? I have never goaded him into putting his hands on me or hurting me, but I have tried grabbing his phone when he threatens to walk out, which infuriates him even more, and I have tried to stand in his way when he tries to storm out in the middle of a conversation.

 

And before he sounds like an evil monster, when things are good, they're good...when things are great, they're great...but when things are bad, watch out. That is the best way to describe our relationship. He can be very sweet and loving and thoughtful. I genuinely feel like I am married to 2 different men, and when the mean side of him comes out, he is so mean, negative about our relationship, says I don't make him happy, threatens to leave for good, etc. He has a few external factors that are stressing him out at the moment...family illness, finances, etc. - but doesn't everyone have those stressors?

 

Anyhow - I feel like my view of reality is warped these days. I want to better myself and know I have my own issues to work on, but I don't know if my actions are indeed causing him to lay his hands on me. And is that abuse? He's not punching me or kicking me - but he is nearly a foot taller than me and weighs almost twice that I do, and it scares me to see that look of rage in his eyes when he is grabbing me or shoving me.

[newlywedder]

No you do not deserve to be physically or mentally abused. The problem is with your husband.

[jen1447]

Time to bounce sister. One or two red flags might be surmountable, but a whole room's worth of them is unlikely.

 

And no, no one deserves to be abused. That's blame-game/rationalization BS.

[elaine567]

Abusers are almost never wall to wall nasty, they are often "lovely" at times, but that is how they hook you in.

What you describe is escalating abuse and you need to get out pronto.

 

House of Ruth: Domestic Violence Dynamics

[Arieswoman]

I did not read further than the title;-

 

Does anyone ever deserve physical abuse?

 

No, no, and NO, again - unless it is in self-defense.

 

And then , I believe legally it has to be "reasonable".

[SammySammy]

Nobody deserves to be abused in any manner - mentally or physically.

 

Don't antagonize him tough. Trying to grab his phone, standing in the door to block him from leaving, trying to work things out with an angry person who communicates poorly ... all things you said you did ... only makes a bad situation worse.

 

I'm not blaming you for his anger, aggression and communication issues. I'm just concerned about your safety. I think deescalating the situation may be safer for you than doing things that enrage him further.

 

Then, at some point, you're going to have to determine how much verbal and physical abuse you can take from this man. And what you're going to do about it.

[thinkhappy]

So me blocking the way out of the room isn't a justified reason to get out of his way? I know the logical answer is to just let him go and run off when he is about to rage, but it's so hard to do in the moment when things are tense and all I want to do is solve it with him. It seems so immature to me to always stomp off when you're in an argument or discussing something/trying to resolve something. But he says that I don't listen and that is my consequence. He admits to being out of control when that happens but still blames me for it and says I didn't listen to him. To be honest, his verbal lashings are MUCH worse than his physical ones, but he is using more force with the physical episodes and they are occurring more and more frequently. Not every day or even every week, but to me, they should never be occurring.

 

I just don't understand because I always thought a spouse should be your rock, your best friend, and the guardian of your heart. He can be a great partner when the chips are down...as long as the chips don't involve him, if that makes any sense. But why he would say such nasty things to me, and threaten me with our relationship, and put his hands on me and use force...I don't understand it for one second.

 

I don't want to leave him. I love him and I love the H that I married. I feel like a complete monster comes out when conflict arises that involves him. In ways he has gotten better with handling it at times if I bring something up but in other ways, he has gotten much worse. It's left me so confused. He has even told me he doesn't understand why I stay with him. I have told him that if my daughters (from ex-H) ever had a boyfriend that treated them this way, I would be livid and tell my daughters to run, not walk. But I guess I stay because I love him, I don't want to put my kids through another divorce, because I am still in love with my H despite his nasty side, and because I know the tender side of him, the wonderful and loving H that I married that I do still see. Which is what leaves me so confused and feeling so vulnerable when I feel like we are so connected and then he lashes out at the first sign of discord.

[thinkhappy]

Nobody deserves to be abused in any manner - mentally or physically.

 

Don't antagonize him tough. Trying to grab his phone, standing in the door to block him from leaving, trying to work things out with an angry person who communicates poorly ... all things you said you did ... only makes a bad situation worse.

 

I'm not blaming you for his anger, aggression and communication issues. I'm just concerned about your safety. I think deescalating the situation may be safer for you than doing things that enrage him further.

 

Then, at some point, you're going to have to determine how much verbal and physical abuse you can take from this man. And what you're going to do about it.

 

Yes, he says I do this...and I see that I do. I'm not blocking him to piss him off, but taking his phone (or attempting to) does anger him and I am sure it is, deep down, a way for me to feel like I have some form of control in the situation. He is addicted to his phone and wasting time on it playing games, on apps, etc. and although he reads a lot (he is very business-minded), he doesn't ever do any self help or exploring on how he can grow as a person and as a partner in our relationship. Of course, when he is raging he refuses to accept responsibility for his behavior but once the episode has passed (usually the following day), he is tender and apologizes for being awful and thanks me for putting up with him, etc.

 

You are right, though. I need to deescalate the situation. I am definitely going to try my hardest to do this next time things get heated.

 

And I've told my H this, too...I feel like I am at my breaking point and can't take any more. But obviously, I can, because I stay in the marriage.

 

I've been to counseling on my own, begged him to go, he waffles back and forth but ultimately always says he won't go (he HATES when he looks like a bad guy to anyone else...I have seen him lie to other people on more than one occasion because he always wants to look good to others), and the counselor has said he's not a good partner. Of course, the counselor is only hearing my side of the story and not my H's.

 

Do men like this ever grow up or learn how to be more respectful?

[thinkhappy]

Time to bounce sister. One or two red flags might be surmountable, but a whole room's worth of them is unlikely.

 

And no, no one deserves to be abused. That's blame-game/rationalization BS.

 

Can you please explain more of the above? I know I mentioned it earlier, but I feel like my sense of reality has been completely distorted. I want to take full ownership for any role I play in how my H treats me.

[SammySammy]

Here's an underlying truth - you can't fix his problems. He has to do that. I'm just saying don't pour gasoline on the fire - don't put yourself in harm's way - trying to help a man who is not trying to help himself.

[BetrayedH]

I'd recommend that you remove any legitimate ammunition he might have. Blocking his path, grabbing his phone, trying to stop him from leaving...you have no right to physically interfere if he wants to leave. That's inviting a physical response. Stop doing that. Clean up your side of the street. If the physical abuse continues after that, he's clearly in the wrong all by himself.

 

Then you have to decide if his behaviors are something you can/want to continue to tolerate. You need to decide on your dealbreakers. For some, his simple immaturity and conflict-avoidance would be enough. For others, the emotional abuse would be a dealbreaker. And for others, physical abuse crosses the line. Where is your line? And if he's already crossed it, what measures do you need him to take to show remorse or that it won't happen again?

[jen1447]

You guys realize that OP is already bargaining on behalf of this guy and that she's gonna eat up any equivocation or even the slightest indication he might be justified and/or she might be at fault, right? Now's not the time to get her thinking about what she might be doing wrong in the big picture.

 

Can you please explain more of the above? I know I mentioned it earlier, but I feel like my sense of reality has been completely distorted. I want to take full ownership for any role I play in how my H treats me.

 

Please see the link in Elaine's post above, happy. Among other things, it says this:

 

Tension Building Phase: Arguments and Threats

This stage involves minor incidents (slapping, verbal and/or psychological abuse) with increasing tension and fear of the batterer. This may be the time when a victim will seek out help through law enforcement intervention only to be told nothing can be done until violence occurs. The victim may:

 

- Placate batterer by nurturing or staying out of the batterer's way

- Control, manipulate environment to prevent escalation of violence

- Minimize, trivialize, deny violence

- Cover for batterer, excuse behavior

- Begin to withdraw emotionally from overwhelming stress

 

The victim's inability to face the reality of situation allows the batterer to escalate the violence.

 

This is the path you're on, imo. You need to get your head out of that mindset and realize the basics of the situation - he hurting and/or threatening you, that's not okay, and you need to extract yourself from that situation immediately for your own safety. This isn't a time for personal reflection or regrets, it's a time to take action. You can ponder all that other stuff later.

[thinkhappy]

I'd recommend that you remove any legitimate ammunition he might have. Blocking his path, grabbing his phone, trying to stop him from leaving...you have no right to physically interfere if he wants to leave. That's inviting a physical response. Stop doing that. Clean up your side of the street. If the physical abuse continues after that, he's clearly in the wrong all by himself.

 

Then you have to decide if his behaviors are something you can/want to continue to tolerate. You need to decide on your dealbreakers. For some, his simple immaturity and conflict-avoidance would be enough. For others, the emotional abuse would be a dealbreaker. And for others, physical abuse crosses the line. Where is your line? And if he's already crossed it, what measures do you need him to take to show remorse or that it won't happen again?

 

I can say that I don't think he would lay a finger on me if I didn't get in his way of leaving...but saying that, I do think there was one time where he started screaming at me and got nose to nose, pointing in my face how dare I blah blah blah (I can't even remember what it was, but I think I had called him out on his bad attitude and he didn't appreciate it.)

 

That's what I mean, though...inviting a physical response - to me, this means that he had a reason for doing what he did and I am to blame. This is what he tells me, too. This is what confuses me...because I was always taught men shouldn't lay a finger on women.

 

And he definitely has crossed the line, but I am not sure what measures he needs to take, other than to work on himself and stop with the verbal abuse and physical lashings.

[elaine567]

 

I don't want to leave him. I love him and I love the H that I married. I feel like a complete monster comes out when conflict arises that involves him. In ways he has gotten better with handling it at times if I bring something up but in other ways, he has gotten much worse. It's left me so confused. He has even told me he doesn't understand why I stay with him. I have told him that if my daughters (from ex-H) ever had a boyfriend that treated them this way, I would be livid and tell my daughters to run, not walk. But I guess I stay because I love him, I don't want to put my kids through another divorce, because I am still in love with my H despite his nasty side, and because I know the tender side of him, the wonderful and loving H that I married that I do still see. Which is what leaves me so confused and feeling so vulnerable when I feel like we are so connected and then he lashes out at the first sign of discord.

 

The wonderful and lovely man you married is not real him, this I suggest is the real him.

He hid this side of him, to trap you, it is a very common scenario.

The honey moon is over. Welcome to reality.

 

As someone once said here, I waited 7 years for the lovely man I married to return, he never did...

[oldshirt]

Start researching and reading up on domestic abuse and you will see that both of you two are falling lock-step into the classic pattern of abuse and escalation.

 

This will continue into actual beating if there is no definitive intervention.

[oldshirt]

.... pick up any abuse pamphlet from your doctor's office or the social services office and it will describe verbatim everything you have said about your situation.

[thinkhappy]

You guys realize that OP is already bargaining on behalf of this guy and that she's gonna eat up any equivocation or even the slightest indication he might be justified and/or she might be at fault, right? Now's not the time to get her thinking about what she might be doing wrong in the big picture.

 

 

 

Please see the link in Elaine's post above, happy. Among other things, it says this:

 

 

 

This is the path you're on, imo. You need to get your head out of that mindset and realize the basics of the situation - he hurting and/or threatening you, that's not okay, and you need to extract yourself from that situation immediately for your own safety. This isn't a time for personal reflection or regrets, it's a time to take action. You can ponder all that other stuff later.

 

I read her link. Thanks for sharing, too.

 

And I am not trying to play the martyr card by any means. I really want to know if my actions blocking his way warrant his physical response. Maybe it does. I want to take ownership for my flaws and for my mistakes. My biggest flaw is that I can sometimes get aggravated easily but just as fast as I get annoyed, I am quick to resolve problems and/or forgive because I don't like tension and I don't like negativity. I rarely get mad and when I do, it physically hurts - feels like a big pressure on my chest.

[SammySammy]

I read her link. Thanks for sharing, too.

 

And I am not trying to play the martyr card by any means. I really want to know if my actions blocking his way warrant his physical response. Maybe it does. I want to take ownership for my flaws and for my mistakes. My biggest flaw is that I can sometimes get aggravated easily but just as fast as I get annoyed, I am quick to resolve problems and/or forgive because I don't like tension and I don't like negativity. I rarely get mad and when I do, it physically hurts - feels like a big pressure on my chest.

 

NO! They don't warrant him getting physical with you in any way, shape or form. Please don't take my comments as saying his behavior is justified. HE'S NOT JUSTIFIED!

 

I was suggesting that you deescalate the situation as a means to minimize your chances of getting hurt. That's all.

 

I think you should leave, but if you're going to stay be careful. That's all I'm saying.

[thinkhappy]

NO! They don't warrant him getting physical with you in any way, shape or form. Please don't take my comments as saying his behavior is justified. HE'S NOT JUSTIFIED!

 

I was suggesting that you deescalate the situation as a means to minimize your chances of getting hurt. That's all.

 

I think you should leave, but if you're going to stay be careful. That's all I'm saying.

 

Oh, no...I didn't think you were saying he was justified in his reactions. Someone else seemed to insinuate that earlier - BetrayedH said my blocking him leaving is inviting a physical response. So to me, inviting something is the same as being responsible for it...because inviting is asking for something, isn't it?

 

I'm sorry to be a broken record but my H has told me so many times during an argument that I am not right, "get a f**ing grip of yourself", that I'm not normal, and has basically made me question every single thing I ever do and say. I used to think I had a lot of the answers in life, but he has made me question myself and how I handle relationships. I have never had a problem in a relationship like this in my life - and he says he has never spoken to anyone in a relationship the degrading way he has spoken to me and has never lifted a finger to anyone. He has told me "Doesn't that worry you? That you bring the very worst out of me?"

Edited July 7, 2015 by thinkhappy
typo

[oldshirt]

Really, the only thing that warrant a physical confrontation or violence is to protect yourself or an innocent 3rd party from a physical attack.

 

If you are not attacking him and presenting a threat of bodily harm to him, then he has no justification of using physical force against you.

 

Period.

[thinkhappy]

Really, the only thing that warrant a physical confrontation or violence is to protect yourself or an innocent 3rd party from a physical attack.

 

If you are not attacking him and presenting a threat of bodily harm to him, then he has no justification of using physical force against you.

 

Period.

 

Never. I would never!!

 

Although I suspect, if you ask my H, I was disrespecting his boundaries by trying to prevent him from leaving, or trying to force him into a conversation that he didn't want to engage in.

[oldshirt]

Never. I would never!!

 

Although I suspect, if you ask my H, I was disrespecting his boundaries by trying to prevent him from leaving, or trying to force him into a conversation that he didn't want to engage in.

 

That is not justifiable use of physical force.

 

The only justifiable use of physical force is to prevent bodily harm from being inflicted on yourself or another person. It is even a very gray area if used to prevent theft or damage of property depending on a million variables. For example, it probably wouldn't be justifiable to use physical force if someone was shoplifting a non threatening item but it would be if someone were attempting to set fire to an occupied building.

 

In the case of your husband, the phrase, "she/you keeps pushing my buttons" is the universal line of all abusers.

 

While having someone in your face bitching you out is certainly not pleasant and is definately irritating, it clearly does not rise to the bar of justifying physical confrontation.

 

Cont....

[Mrin]

A couple of thoughts on this:

 

1. You married a rage machine, a verbal abuser and a physical abuser. Physical abuse doesn't have to come in the form of a punch or a kick. An arm around a neck or a shove is just as real as a punch or a kick.

 

2. No one ever deserves to be physically abused by a loved one. Period.

 

3. Abusers rarely change and they certainly don't change on their own. I can only think of one reformed abuser success story - Rod Smith, former wide receiver for the Denver Broncos. I am sure there are more but the common thread would be that they went and got real, meaningful help. This is especially true if the abuser is a rage machine. That is to say, the reason he/she abuses is that he/she doesn't have the tools or the skills to deal with negative emotions and conflict. Those skills don't just magically appear one day - at least not in adults.

 

4. All that being said, you are wise to recognize how your behavior can escalate a conflict. That's not equivocation. People do it all the time in relationships that don't have a single iota of abuse. "How can I handle a conflict better with my spouse/SO" - that's just relationship 101. But don't think for a second that any of your actions explain away his physical abuse. You simply don't hurt the ones you love. Period. I'd rather curl up in the fetal position and cry like a child than ever physically harm someone I love regardless of what they might be doing to me.

 

5. You are not at fault for his physical abuse. You are not at fault for his physical abuse. You are not at fault for his physical abuse. That should be your mantra.

 

Look OP: this marriage is going to go downhill fast unless you and your husband get real help quick. I wouldn't hesitate to give him an ultimatum - we both go to anger management/conflict resolution therapy or we get a divorce. Simple as that. Either we work to save our relationship or we go our separate ways before one of us ends up battered and the other in prison.

 

Best of luck and consider yourself hugged!

[autumnnight]

I read her link. Thanks for sharing, too.

 

And I am not trying to play the martyr card by any means. I really want to know if my actions blocking his way warrant his physical response. Maybe it does. I want to take ownership for my flaws and for my mistakes. My biggest flaw is that I can sometimes get aggravated easily but just as fast as I get annoyed, I am quick to resolve problems and/or forgive because I don't like tension and I don't like negativity. I rarely get mad and when I do, it physically hurts - feels like a big pressure on my chest.

 

I know this feeling, and I hate "something in the air" too. But with an angry and abusive person....you just aren't going to get resolution by pushing for it.

 

NOTE: He is being unjustifiably abusive, absolutely.

 

I will share from the other side of the "resolve it now" equation though. There were times that discussions (read: crazy-making) with my ex would last for hours. Well, unless I just took the blame for everything and took back every bit of real expression of anything negative. And if I went to bed before HE felt better, he would either follow me or bang things around so I couldn't sleep. I remember more than one occasion he had me cornered in the bedroom and wouldn't let me leave. I didn't lash out, but I felt the fight or flight thing big time, and since I knew it was wrong to react physically, I just cowered in the corner and cried.

 

When he wants to leave after gaslighting, verbally abusing, and insulting you...my advice would be to let him, and call someone for help.

 

And have your phone in your pocket. The next time he touches you AT ALL during an argument, I would step back and call 911.

[oldshirt]

......now here is where the water gets a little murky.

 

If things are escalating verbally and he is attempting to defuse the situation and deescalate by walking away (which is wise and appropriate on his part IMHO) and you initiate physical contact with him to block his escape, he may be justified in using an equal or lesser amount of physical force to escape the confrontation.

 

He would not be justified in using a greater amount of force.

 

Do you see where I am going with all of this???

 

It is all about context and proportioned response. If a response is reasonable and proportioned given the circumstances, it likely would not rise to the bar of abuse or assault.

 

But if it is not reasonable and is disproportionate to circumstances, then it does.

 

If you are screaming at him and verbally assaulting him and are escalating in your confrontation towards him and he is trying to getaway from the confrontation and you are shoving him or grabbing on to him to restrain him - he is justified in brushing off your grip or pushing you away from him to enable his escape, provided his pushing is only equal and proportional to the level of your restraint.

 

If she strikes you or intentionally slams you into a wall in a manner that is not proportional or necessary to enable his escape, that is not justified.