Should I stay or should I leave?

[berniev]

We have been married for 20 years, and by most part, it has been an extremely happy marriage. The only problem with me is sex or lack of it. One time we didn't have sex for almost two years. It was horrible, putting it simply. This is the issue we have talked and fought over and over but just not going anyway. I went to a serious depression during a period of a time about 6 years into the marriage - that's when I started having affairs. A few years later, I met a nice lady who persuaded me to stop cheating and try things again. So I did for the next 10 years. It has got a little better varying from once a few month or maybe once a month.

 

Last Christmas we took a vacation during which we got into a huge fight over the sex. I wrote a letter, probably the sixth letter, to her after we came back. This time I told her that maybe we should be separated for awhile. Just like before, after the letter and our talk, sex got a little better for about a month then all back to "normal."

 

We are both working and healthy people without any kids. Financially we are very well off and emotionally we are very happy to be with each other - we are good husband and wife. So stress is really not an issue, and it's not me either. It's just she's not that into it but when we do have sex ,it's fun for both of us. Going to see a therapist has come up multiple times but it never materialized as I don't see the willingness from her to go.

 

What should I do? I don't think she's going to change after 20 years. I don't want to stay in a sexless marriage, nor do I want to continue the life of cheating - I started seeing other women again this year - but it also breaks my heart to even consider the separation.

 

No, she doesn't know my affairs.

[pteromom]

Have you talked to your wife about the possibility of having an open marriage? If she doesn't want sex, maybe she'd be ok with you getting it elsewhere, and you wouldn't have to cheat.

[berniev]

Have you talked to your wife about the possibility of having an open marriage? If she doesn't want sex, maybe she'd be ok with you getting it elsewhere, and you wouldn't have to cheat.

 

I hinted a few times but she didn't like that idea. Don't think she would take it lightly if I meet up with other women on a weekly basis.

 

She wants to quit her job and stay at home, which I am highly against. So I said feel free to stay at home but I would need a woman on the side. No, she didn't like that at all.

 

Not sure if I can bring up this idea again.

Edited May 27, 2015 by berniev

[Lois_Griffin]

Don't let her quit her job. If it turns out you end up wanting to separate, you're not going to be able to because she'll be crying she can't support herself and then you'll be waiting forever for her to find a job.

 

BAD move if you let her quit her job.

[oldshirt]

Don't let her quit her job!!!

 

If she becomes unemployed and you (or she) decides to divorce, you may have to pay her spousal support.

 

She may realize this and she may realize you are thinking of leaving so this may be a ploy to discourage divorce.

 

You want her independent and self supporting if you are thinking of leaving.

 

The fact you have no kids makes me wonder why you've stuck around this long.

 

If she isn't into sex and wants to live a life of celibacy, that's her prerogative. She has no right to deny you the right to pursue a life that includes sexual expression though.

 

The only thing that will change your situation is if you refuse to live an asexual lifestyle and refuse to be cheater.

 

That will leave 3 options _

 

- both of you will have to address what will make her attracted to you and want to have sex with you which may include therapy, getting in shape, changing your appearance and demeanor towards her and her addressing the issues that hamper her attraction and desire for you.

 

- consensual open marriage.

 

- divorce.

 

If you take abstinence and adultry off the table, those are the remaining options.

 

My recommendation is refuse to live in a sexless marriage and refuse to cheat. Give her the three remaining options and choose one or you will choose for her.

[oldshirt]

I also want to strongly reccommend for your own benifit that you completely stop cheating. My reasons for that are not what you think however and are for purely pragmatic reasons and not for any moral or ethical reasons. I give no quarter to spouses who knowingly refuse to give love and affection to their partner and have no sympathy when their partner gets it elsewhere.

 

My rationale for ceasing all adulterous behavior is pragmatic - it is holding you back from fixing the root problem and will harm you in the community and possibly in court when your affairs are discovered.

 

Your cheating is what is keeping you from addressing the problem and what is keeping in the sexless marriage in the first place.

 

It is acting like a pressure relief valve that is keeping you just sane enough to stay in the home and not put her feet to the fire to address the issues. It is also keeping you from addressing your own issues and your own responsibilities to keeping her attracted to you.

 

That's why it's called cheating. You are not only cheating her, you are cheating the natural forces of the universe and cheating yourself.

 

To put it bluntly, if you weren't getting it elsewhere your frustrations and dissatisfaction would build up to danger levels and you would pop a cog and blow something up.

 

You would either leave. which would eventually open doors to a more healthy and satisfying relationship (or at least let you pursue one)

 

Or you would put her feet to the fire and hold her to it untill you could both address your issues and seek a permanent solution and be happy together.

 

Instead the cheating is allowing you to wallow in an unhealthy and unsatisfying situation indefinitely.

 

Permanently disconnect the pressure relief valve and in time you will both have to address the impeding core breach and will have to take action to deal with the meltdown.

[Morro72]

You and your wife are effectively not having sex. You're cheating, or have throughout most of your marriage, and are one act of carelessness away from disclosure. You and your wife disagree on a major issue - whether she should work.

 

Where's the happy marriage here?

[Methodical]

In other words, you and your best friend live together and get along perfectly fine so long as there is no mention of "benefits."

 

For ME, my partner would have to agree to an open marriage or we would divorce because I'm not living a forced celibate lifestyle nor am I going to live in a manner that makes me feel guilty...ie cheating.

 

Married or not, I don't consider it cheating when partners are aware and consent to extra-curricular activities. Actually, some marriages become stronger and def. more interesting.

[loveboid]

I don't think she married you for sex.

 

Edit: To answer your question, I would go.

[Popsicle]

 

The fact you have no kids makes me wonder why you've stuck around this long.

 

Because it's never about the kids like people think/say...

[berniev]

Don't let her quit her job!!!

 

If she becomes unemployed and you (or she) decides to divorce, you may have to pay her spousal support.

 

She may realize this and she may realize you are thinking of leaving so this may be a ploy to discourage divorce.

 

You want her independent and self supporting if you are thinking of leaving.

 

The fact you have no kids makes me wonder why you've stuck around this long.

 

If she isn't into sex and wants to live a life of celibacy, that's her prerogative. She has no right to deny you the right to pursue a life that includes sexual expression though.

 

The only thing that will change your situation is if you refuse to live an asexual lifestyle and refuse to be cheater.

 

That will leave 3 options _

 

- both of you will have to address what will make her attracted to you and want to have sex with you which may include therapy, getting in shape, changing your appearance and demeanor towards her and her addressing the issues that hamper her attraction and desire for you.

 

- consensual open marriage.

 

- divorce.

 

If you take abstinence and adultry off the table, those are the remaining options.

 

My recommendation is refuse to live in a sexless marriage and refuse to cheat. Give her the three remaining options and choose one or you will choose for her.

 

Excellent point!!! Should I give her one final ultimatum before I pack and leave?

 

We don't have kids because I don't want kids, and she's fine with it.

[berniev]

In other words, you and your best friend live together and get along perfectly fine so long as there is no mention of "benefits."

 

For ME, my partner would have to agree to an open marriage or we would divorce because I'm not living a forced celibate lifestyle nor am I going to live in a manner that makes me feel guilty...ie cheating.

 

Married or not, I don't consider it cheating when partners are aware and consent to extra-curricular activities. Actually, some marriages become stronger and def. more interesting.

 

Yes, like two best friends living together without the benefits. :-(

[Mr. Lucky]

My rationale for ceasing all adulterous behavior is pragmatic - it is holding you back from fixing the root problem and will harm you in the community and possibly in court when your affairs are discovered.

 

Good point. berniev, what you're doing is like resorting to petty thievery after job loss, tends to take your eye off the prize.

 

Your goal should be a healthy relationship, sexually and otherwise. Let your wife know you'd like it to be with her, if not it will be post divorce with someone else...

 

Mr. Lucky

[oldshirt]

Excellent point!!! Should I give her one final ultimatum before I pack and leave?

 

We don't have kids because I don't want kids, and she's fine with it.

 

Since you've had this discussion and arguments many times over the years, she will just see this as you whining and having one of your hissy fits again.

This means she will simply put out a few times to shut you up for a few weeks then go back to convent.

 

My recommendation is to go ahead and move out and draw up divorce papers and start openly dating other women.

 

This scorched earth approach will result in her either taking your needs seriously or she will decide it isn't worth it and she will sign the papers and let you go.

 

Either way it will show you are serious and it will force her hand to commit one way or the other.

[oldshirt]

Since you've had this discussion and arguments many times over the years, she will just see this as you whining and having one of your hissy fits again.

This means she will simply put out a few times to shut you up for a few weeks then go back to convent.

 

My recommendation is to go ahead and move out and draw up divorce papers and start openly dating other women.

 

This scorched earth approach will result in her either taking your needs seriously or she will decide it isn't worth it and she will sign the papers and let you go.

 

Either way it will show you are serious and it will force her hand to commit one way or the other.

 

In otherwords you aren't giving an ultimatum before taking action because she is skilled at manipulating you by throwing you a bone just long enough to stop your howling but addressing the root problems.

 

By taking definitive action first, she will basically ultimatum herself and will Either decide to come to you with a plan of reconciliation on her own, or she will opt out and let you go.

 

Whichever route she chooses, you are in the driver's seat of hour own life.

 

If she opts out, you are already on your own doing you own thing and have a good head start.

 

And if she shown up on your doorstep offering a reconciliation plan, you can sit back and consider the offer thoroughly and decide if her terms of reconciliation are adequate or not.

 

You are basically forcing her hand by taking your own action and your own stance.

[berniev]

Since you've had this discussion and arguments many times over the years, she will just see this as you whining and having one of your hissy fits again.

This means she will simply put out a few times to shut you up for a few weeks then go back to convent.

 

My recommendation is to go ahead and move out and draw up divorce papers and start openly dating other women.

 

This scorched earth approach will result in her either taking your needs seriously or she will decide it isn't worth it and she will sign the papers and let you go.

 

Either way it will show you are serious and it will force her hand to commit one way or the other.

 

Do you suggest I speak to her again? I was thinking that I'll just pack my stuff, leave, and then just send her a text or email telling her that. Somehow, I feel like that's a chick **** move but I don't want to get into any discussion or argument anymore.

[oldshirt]

Do you suggest I speak to her again? I was thinking that I'll just pack my stuff, leave, and then just send her a text or email telling her that. Somehow, I feel like that's a chick **** move but I don't want to get into any discussion or argument anymore.

 

That's probably a question for a counselor on how to manage the actual nuts and bolts of the separation.

 

My point is that you have already had the discussions and the arguments d you have already huffed and puffed and nothing has fundamentally changed.

 

Now it's time for actions and not really more words.

 

She has shown a pattern of saying she'll work on it, then throwing you a couple bones for a few weeks then going back to a 20 year pattern.

 

I'm not sure if more words will really mean anything or not. Like I said, that may be something for a counselor to advise on the actual mechanics and the actual discussions that will inevitably have to take place.

 

I just think you are at the point that discussions and negotiations have failed and now you either have to suck it up and live with it, or take definitive action.

[Panda9080]

In my opinion, the best option is divorce. It is very hard and painful, but both of you will be better off in the long run. Just remember, women deal with divorce better than you think they are.

 

If you really can't do it, then negotiate for an open marriage.

 

No pain, no gain.

 

Good luck!

[loveboid]

I wouldn't bother talking to her. She's going to pull all sorts of manipulation tricks. Crying, begging, or alternately raging. Anyway, it's all for show.

 

I had a gf in college who would pull the crying stunt to her male professors to get better grades. She said she did it on purpose--they caved easy. It was apparent to me she had no guilt and quite enjoyed pulling it off not to mention the nice grade!

 

Your W has already shown she doesn't care. Give her a failing grade.

[berniev]

I wouldn't bother talking to her. She's going to pull all sorts of manipulation tricks. Crying, begging, or alternately raging. Anyway, it's all for show.

 

I had a gf in college who would pull the crying stunt to her male professors to get better grades. She said she did it on purpose--they caved easy. It was apparent to me she had no guilt and quite enjoyed pulling it off not to mention the nice grade!

 

Your W has already shown she doesn't care. Give her a failing grade.

 

 

Insensitive I guess. I got your point though. Thank you!

[sandylee1]

Insensitive I guess. I got your point though. Thank you!

 

Give her one last chance. Tell her if the improvement isn't sustained, you will file for D. Then she can't claim to be blindsided.

 

Don't just pack and leave a 20 year marriage when she's out of the house. You'll end up looking like the bad guy.

[berniev]

Give her one last chance. Tell her if the improvement isn't sustained, you will file for D. Then she can't claim to be blindsided.

 

Don't just pack and leave a 20 year marriage when she's out of the house. You'll end up looking like the bad guy.

 

I wrote her a letter in Jan. for the first time stating I would like to be separated for awhile. We talked quite a bit after she read the letter. Like before, things got better for about month and went back to "normal."

 

I just don't feel like having another discussion. I feel it is her turn to put up some effort as I have exhausted all mine.

[Got it]

A divorce can be stopped. So since you have hashed this out a number of times I do think it is smart to start the process. I would lay out that due to the reality of today, divorce is your only option.

 

But reconciliation can happen in the future if she agrees to IC and MC, sex therapy, and shows, through actions, a true willingness to meet you halfway on this on a very permanent basis. But if she does truly love you this should be impacted.

 

Basically you are asking that she fight for you. She will either step up and show you or will say you are being . . . whatever, and will show through actions that she is not willing to change.

[still_an_Angel]

You've already made her aware of your problem, she is your problem. Have you tried to ask HER what her long-term solution is to your problem? And none of that fantastic sex for a week or so then back to the normal nunnery life for her.

 

 

She's not your sex match, she knows this and she's tried, nothing has worked so far, its the same problem. So you give her the option of staying married but having an open relationship. She has to negotiate on this somehow, otherwise, D is the way. And once you deliver the option of open marriage or D, you have to stick to it. You have already shown her that all your talk, rage, spitting the dummy out, etc is not effective as you still stay anyway.

[berniev]

You've already made her aware of your problem, she is your problem. Have you tried to ask HER what her long-term solution is to your problem? And none of that fantastic sex for a week or so then back to the normal nunnery life for her.

 

 

She's not your sex match, she knows this and she's tried, nothing has worked so far, its the same problem. So you give her the option of staying married but having an open relationship. She has to negotiate on this somehow, otherwise, D is the way. And once you deliver the option of open marriage or D, you have to stick to it. You have already shown her that all your talk, rage, spitting the dummy out, etc is not effective as you still stay anyway.

 

Would you suggest I just pack and leave? I'd like both of us to go see a marital therapists after we are separated but I don't feel like I can take the first step if I talk to her again. I'd probably end up staying for another period...

 

I obviously don't want a divorce as she's my closest person in the world, and I am very happy with her except for the sex issue and that she wants to quit her job and stay at home.

Edited May 29, 2015 by berniev