When The Fire Goes Out

[Rainbowlove]

Does it go out permanently?

 

I want to want all of my wife. I want to want her physically. I want to desire her. I want to love touching her...

 

She's physically beautiful. Her body is beautiful. Her kiss feels nice.

 

But...mentally I cannot get myself there.

 

It hurts to not be excited about making love with her.

 

She loves being intimate with me. She wants me all the time. I find myself finding excuses to avoid it. Then, I find myself forcing it and trying to get excited....because I feel like I reject her a lot and it turns into fights.

 

We had the worst sex the other night. It was like two strangers in bed fumbling around forcing ourselves and it was pitiful. I told her it might have been the worst sex we've ever had...she agreed. I said, why then do you force it? She said, she just needed to be close to me. I said, can't we just cuddle naked then? She looked at me like I was nuts.

 

She equates intimacy with sex. I don't. We've been together going on 20 years and this has been a problem for a long time. We show love differently. She shows me by sex and I show her by cooking, cleaning and taking care of things for her...and sex sometimes too.

 

I would rather have no sex than bad sex...she would rather have bad sex than no sex.

 

If we go 2 weeks without it, she starts fights. I'm not kidding. We have very demanding jobs and a demanding toddler...life gets in the way sometimes.

 

I am tired in general and I'm tired of trying to prove I love her with sex. It makes us both feel bad. She feels bad b/c she's not getting it and I feel bad b/c I have to fake wanting it.

 

After 20 years together, do people still have sex on a weekly basis?

[jackslife]

I completely understand. You are not alone. This happens to so many people (including myself). Everything is right in the relationship, but the desire has gone from one partner and I don't think it is possible to replace it.

 

My life would be so much easier if I was happy to live in a sexless marriage. My wife even wants to try to have sex with me occasionally, but I don't desire her. My wife has reached the menopause and physically and emotionally lost her sexual needs. I no longer desire her but still want sex.

 

It is an awful quandary, because everything else in the marriage is okay.

 

OP, you post a lot on here and give sound advice. I think you will have noticed how a lot of posters ask questions to which they have the answer but are looking for another answer they may not have thought of... The impossible answer.

 

The most recurring one is "I love my spouse, but I love my AP, what I do?" The answer is simple, you pick one. But the OP is looking for an answer which still gives them both.

 

You know the answer to this. You love her but aren't in love with her. She loves you and wants sex. You want sex but not with her. You are forcing yourself to have sex with someone you don't desire. This is making you both unhappy.

 

I can't answer your predicament for you. But the 'outside looking in' answer is that your marriage is over. Divorce is best for both of you. Unless you suddenly desire your partner again (which you won't), what other choice is there?

 

You are looking for the impossible answer.

Edited January 29, 2015 by jackslife

[Rainbowlove]

The most recurring one is "I love my spouse, but I love my AP, what I do?" The answer is simple, you pick one. But the OP is looking for an answer which still gives them both.

 

I chose my wife. I said goodbye to my AP (whom I did love and desire). I don't regret it really.

 

It's been 15 months since ending my affair.

 

I thought I could get back to my wife. I wanted to. God, do I want to. I wish there was a switch I could flip to turn it back on...but I'm losing hope in that.

 

Thank you for your reply. Your words, though probably right, hurt me to hear.

 

We are both still young and attractive. She's late 30's and I'm middle 40's.

 

I'm not sure I'm ready to face it. I have moments when I know it's over...then I dig my heels in for another fight to save it.

 

And I think...I shouldn't have to work this hard at wanting my wife and partner. I blamed my affair for a while, but as that dust settles, I'm starting to see it's more than that...our issues pre-affair are still here.

 

And the lack of desire on my end has been prevalent for years...

 

You are right about knowing the answer, but my heart isn't ready to go there...

 

I watched my son struggle with separation anxiety when I moved out last year and it was heart breaking to witness and my wife was angry and tried to limit the amount of time I could see him...it broke me.

 

Quandary of epic proportions...

[jackslife]

I hope my response wasn't harsh. It wasn't meant to be.

 

On a positive note you can honestly say you've given it your best shot. You can honestly say that you are not leaving for another woman. You can honestly say that the marriage has run it's course.

 

An affair really muddies the waters. But at least you are no longer in one and can't site that as your reason for leaving.

 

I read an interesting comment on LS recently. Affairs don't solve the problem they just extend a bad marriage.

 

I'm sorry. I have no easy answers. IC or marriage counselling may be an option. But if you don't feel it, then you don't feel it. And all the talking and visiting LS and self help books change nothing. It comes down to should I stay or go.

[Rainbowlove]

I hope my response wasn't harsh. It wasn't meant to be.

 

On a positive note you can honestly say you've given it your best shot. You can honestly say that you are not leaving for another woman. You can honestly say that the marriage has run it's course.

 

An affair really muddies the waters. But at least you are no longer in one and can't site that as your reason for leaving.

 

I read an interesting comment on LS recently. Affairs don't solve the problem they just extend a bad marriage.

 

I'm sorry. I have no easy answers. IC or marriage counselling may be an option. But if you don't feel it, then you don't feel it. And all the talking and visiting LS and self help books change nothing. It comes down to should I stay or go.

 

You were not harsh at all.

 

Your response struck my core because underneath it all, the truth hurts. Especially when you don't want to hear it...

 

You are absolutely right about your other comments. I have tried and knowing if I leave, I leave for me and for no one else.

 

That is why I ended my affair...to have clarity about my marriage and whether or not it could be fixed.

 

I wanted to give my son better than my parents gave me...a home that's not broken in two.

 

This hurts...

 

I appreciate your honesty.

[Mal78]

Does it go out permanently?

 

I want to want all of my wife. I want to want her physically. I want to desire her. I want to love touching her...

 

She's physically beautiful. Her body is beautiful. Her kiss feels nice.

 

But...mentally I cannot get myself there.

 

It hurts to not be excited about making love with her.

 

She loves being intimate with me. She wants me all the time. I find myself finding excuses to avoid it. Then, I find myself forcing it and trying to get excited....because I feel like I reject her a lot and it turns into fights.

 

We had the worst sex the other night. It was like two strangers in bed fumbling around forcing ourselves and it was pitiful. I told her it might have been the worst sex we've ever had...she agreed. I said, why then do you force it? She said, she just needed to be close to me. I said, can't we just cuddle naked then? She looked at me like I was nuts.

 

She equates intimacy with sex. I don't. We've been together going on 20 years and this has been a problem for a long time. We show love differently. She shows me by sex and I show her by cooking, cleaning and taking care of things for her...and sex sometimes too.

 

I would rather have no sex than bad sex...she would rather have bad sex than no sex.

 

If we go 2 weeks without it, she starts fights. I'm not kidding. We have very demanding jobs and a demanding toddler...life gets in the way sometimes.

 

I am tired in general and I'm tired of trying to prove I love her with sex. It makes us both feel bad. She feels bad b/c she's not getting it and I feel bad b/c I have to fake wanting it.

 

After 20 years together, do people still have sex on a weekly basis?

 

This is my husband and I. Although after bad sex I feel shame, guilt and disconnect so I might bawl this off in the bathroom. It's a catch 22 as next time I hope it will be different.

 

I think Sex for me fall back to when my H had a A. He told me it was only sex, that's it. So in my brain I concluded that because it was so easy to chance f'ing up everything for "just sex" (marriage, kids, life...) Then sex MUST be more important to him than intimacy.

 

Most of our issues/arguments include him telling me all I think about is sex/getting into his pants and I can't have real intellectual conversation.

 

Sex is a chore for him. The quicker it's over the better. When I recognize it is one of "those" sessions then we have a "go-to" position and it gets him there in seconds.

 

I call it "assuming the position" and it feels very degrading at times. So, perhaps this might give you perspective of her thoughts.

 

Does she know of your A?

[Rainbowlove]

This is my husband and I. Although after bad sex I feel shame, guilt and disconnect so I might bawl this off in the bathroom. It's a catch 22 as next time I hope it will be different.

 

I think Sex for me fall back to when my H had a A. He told me it was only sex, that's it. So in my brain I concluded that because it was so easy to chance f'ing up everything for "just sex" (marriage, kids, life...) Then sex MUST be more important to him than intimacy.

 

Most of our issues/arguments include him telling me all I think about is sex/getting into his pants and I can't have real intellectual conversation.

 

Sex is a chore for him. The quicker it's over the better. When I recognize it is one of "those" sessions then we have a "go-to" position and it gets him there in seconds.

 

I call it "assuming the position" and it feels very degrading at times. So, perhaps this might give you perspective of her thoughts.

 

Does she know of your A?

 

Thank you for your post. That sounds awful. I'm sorry.

 

She does know. She knew of my feelings for OW before it became a relationship. It was a messed up, complicated situation to say the least. I never deceived my wife, there was no d-day.

 

I sat her down and looked her in the eye and told her I fell for the OW and we both sobbed. Needless to say, it all spiraled out of control after that recklessly for a good year.

 

If I could say this was a direct result of my affair, I would. Truth is this has been going on long before my affair. For her, sex equals love and intimacy. I think sex is part of intimacy, but I think our emotional bond is lacking.

 

It's like I'm broken now, too. I cannot get myself there with her. I feel like a square peg fitting into a circle....no matter how much I try to jam myself to fit, I can't.

 

I've told her I feel broken. She asks for more from me, but I can't give something I don't have. I try. I don't think she's all that happy either, though she'd never admit it.

 

She wants, as I want, our family to stay together...

[Daisy2013]

I don't know this answer. I just want to tell you I wish you all the best and hope you figure out what to do. You have offered great advice and encouragement on this forum, and deserve the best advice and encouragement right back.

 

I know I lost desire for my H long before my A. We had years of issues before my A. I remember when I gave up long before the A. I can't get desire back and feel stuck between living this life for which I made a vow, or leaving, and destroying my family. Thankfully, my youngest graduates HS this year, so if I leave I don't have a young one to contend with. It depresses me to think I will live the rest of my life this way. My A woke me up in ways I never dreamed, a love I never experienced. But as AP says "life goes on even if it sucks."

 

Your in a tough spot. I hope you find peace, and in time, happiness, with whatever you decide.

[Rainbowlove]

Thank you, Daisy.

 

I appreciate your words.

 

Knowing what needs to be done and doing are two different things. There's pain and there's more pain.

 

Like you, my affair woke me up. It was a big slap in the face to see what was missing in my marriage, but leaving my family for someone else seemed so wrong. And like jackslife says, affairs muddy waters. I couldn't see through it.

 

I keep waiting for a new spark. Something. Anything that makes me feel it for her again.

 

I'll take this day by day. It takes as long as it takes for me to find my way through it. I think I'm getting clearer and stronger.

 

I wish you well, too.

[redtail]

Does it go out permanently?

No, just ebbs and flows.

 

I would rather have no sex than bad sex...she would rather have bad sex than no sex.

You have the "typical" feminine response and your wife has the "typical" masculine response. Most men, and some women are of the opinion the sex is the vehicle by which a couple strengthens their bond. Understand her needs, and love the fact that you are the person that she turns to for her needs. It will pay dividends for you both.

 

I'm a retired computer programmer and my department had a saying: "documentation is like sex, when it's good, it's very, very good but even when it's bad, it's still better than nothing".

[ComingInHot]

I believe to this day what my grandparents told me after 50 years of marriage.

 

'We have fallen in and out of love many times throughout our life... with eachother'.

 

Have you done everything, and I mean Everything to woo your wife to court your wife back into your arms again? Or just gone back and given some half-a$$'d attempt and now calling it quits. ..

I don't know. Only you do.

[Rainbowlove]

I believe to this day what my grandparents told me after 50 years of marriage.

 

'We have fallen in and out of love many times throughout our life... with eachother'.

 

Have you done everything, and I mean Everything to woo your wife to court your wife back into your arms again? Or just gone back and given some half-a$$'d attempt and now calling it quits. ..

I don't know. Only you do.

 

I'm not calling it quits. I'm searching for answers.

 

After 20 years together, I would not half ass'd my attempts to make this work.

 

It's been hard work getting to two decades together. Nothing would make me happier than finding happiness together for another 30+.

 

It's an uphill battle somedays, but I'm still climbing it with her. I'm noticing some patterns and issues that can't be ignored...

 

It helps to write this out and hear from others.

 

Thank you for your thoughts. You too, Redtail.

[todreaminblue]

you have to want to keep the fire going....understand that your relationship probably wasnt based on sex to start.....if afire goes out....i feel going back to the beginning to initiate sparks to start it again....date nights....time away together whether you can leave the encroaching world behind fro a couple of hours and reconnect.......having a toddler is demanding tiring work......so is a relationship....you need to work on both areas and not let any area slide......make regular time where you can strengthen your bond in the relationship....parenting is a lot easier when you have two happy people together in a strong relationship...sex is part of that for sure......but.....so are simply connecting as a couple other than sex....and other than just being parents of a toddler...if you havent got that couple bond strong and weather proof........its obvious other areas like sexual intimacy are going to come into play........deb

[sureño]

I believe to this day what my grandparents told me after 50 years of marriage.

 

'We have fallen in and out of love many times throughout our life... with eachother'

When we got married, we should have mature enough to know that the idylic love will not last forever. Life is not a bed of roses. Welcome to the adults' world.

 

Either we have to give up and throw the towel before the first drawback. How did our parents and grandparents? most of them spent his life together; Today, instead, divorce seems the easier alternative.

[todreaminblue]

When we got married, we should have mature enough to know that the idylic love will not last forever. Life is not a bed of roses. Welcome to the adults' world.

 

Either we have to give up and throw the towel before the first drawback. How did our parents and grandparents? most of them spent his life together; Today, instead, divorce seems the easier alternative.

 

making an effort is always harder thats why its called effort...i happen to believe in fighting and effort...especially while running around after a one and half footer curious and inexhaustible wave of destruction still making an effort to strengthen a relationship.......until every avenue every attempt....is made to keep trying.....and yes...can be exhausting...but how fulfilling and the sense of peace that comes knowing you did everything you could....and should do....to honor a marriage...its easy to navigate when the weather is fine....much harder to navigate bad weather for some of the time....the destination is so much sweeter for the struggles faced.....deb

[Mrs. John Adams]

After 20 years together, do people still have sex on a weekly basis?

 

We have been married 42 years and still have sex on a daily basis...and sometime twice on Saturday and Sunday. We try to keep things exciting. Making love in the afternoon on the weekends...when we are fresh and wide awake. Watching a porn now and then. Playing sex games...taking pictures....dressing up. There are many ways to keep sex exciting....and it is worth it to us.

[BeatsByDirk]

I was on here last year reading and postng under another screen name. I didn't lose my right to post but I started my own thread, took some heat and annihilated the poster who gave me some crappy opinions when she herself was in a very similar situation, so I wanted to start fresh and be more positve.

 

I don't know if I've been more positive. I have a certain point of view and life experiences that cause me to react similarly and bluntly to certain situations but I want to try not to critique so much as to find some odd/overlooked insight.

 

I'm only 7 years deep into my relationship, we have two beautiful children and live a pretty nice upper middle class life so I don't want to lose this but I'm as sick of my wife as a dude can get.

 

I haven't cheated or had an affair but it's on my mind constantly! I don't mind sex with my wife but it's somewhere between sex and jacking it. The sex is general decent but not fulfilling, it's more like it calms a desire. I could easily pass it up forever, but it's not like I don't need sex I need it bad, my wife just doesn't excite me.

 

What was the turning point when you decided you loved your life and wanted to be married, the partnership is mostly what you want but sex is not desirable?

 

My wife just disappoints me non-stop. I try to recommit and dedicate on the premise of if we can just make it to this next check point without me being let down then there is enough to get us through this. Part of me also thinks it's just the new children and change in life and once we get through this state there is a fulfilling relationship waiting on the other side for me(us).

 

We do MC 25 times a year and have been for 2 years. She sees an IC and I have but after six months dude just told me I'm as put together as anyone he knows and sometimes the only choice in the relationship to make is to stay or leave and I wasn't even really exploring the possibility of divorce at this time.

 

Last night she gets home from work, asks if she can shower and then we bathe the baby together after wards as soon as my older child sat down to eat. I say yes, in 5 minutes I give my daughter her food and she goes, I'm gonna do something on the computer. It boots up, she doesn't know her password,(another pet peeve of mine, I always remind her to store it somewhere on a separate hidden master list) 10 minutes to by and my daughter is done eating. I told her the plan is over and that I will not do the bathing she has planned because it's going to be too difficult now that my daughter isn't entertained. I told her this is what happens when we don't follow the plan. She started getting an attitude, I told her I'm getting close to flipping out on her if she's going to get mad, she then went Into a depressive cry fit for the rest of the evening and then wants an apology this morning. I'm not giving one.

 

My big thing is, we have too much to do, when we don't follow the plan somebody doesn't get what they want or more importantly need. Furthermore I've started having hysterical outburst when she won't let up. I can't cope withher attitudes and her lack of attention to the families needs as a whole.

 

Like one poster said, We probably know the answer when we post the question. I'm not ready to do what I need to do. I probably need to set a dealine and stick to it for improvement but I know this is the turning point for me and not wanting to be sexually close with my wife any longer but I'm wondering if anyone else can pinpoint what's driving them to fall out of intimate desire with their wife and when it happened?

[whichwayisup]

I've told her I feel broken. She asks for more from me, but I can't give something I don't have. I try. I don't think she's all that happy either, though she'd never admit it.

 

She wants, as I want, our family to stay together...

 

20 years is a long time. Right now you two are going through tough and rough times, so stick it out and don't give up. For the sake of your son, you two have to try your best to reconnect and try to remember the love, remember the fun times, the passionate times from the past...Not to recreate it but to build upon what you have now.

 

Do counseling, together and apart.

 

Marriage is not easy, and it certainly has it's up and down's. As long as you both are committed to making it work, giving it your best, then don't give up until the time comes you both (IF that time comes) feel it's not working.

[spanz1]

boy are you way overthinking this. if she wants to have sex with you...have sex. everytime you deny her, you are just banging another nail into the coffin lid of your marriage. it maters not if you "do not feel sex equals intimacy". who cares? if she needs it, give it to her.

 

 

if the sex is lackluster, try new sex! try role playing. get toys, dress up before sex. try bondage. try ANYTHING that turns you on.

 

 

if you need an explanation of WHY you show intimacy in different ways, read the book "the five love languges"

 

 

time to "cowboy up" pal

[xxoo]

After 20 years together, do people still have sex on a weekly basis?

 

Yes, of course! Going a week without sex makes me feel sad and distant from my partner. Sex is bonding, it's love, it's play, it's sharing, and it's fun.

 

Why are you not able to get turned on with your partner? Are you depressed? Is it guilt? Are you trying to punish her for something? Are you trying to push her away so that you don't have to be the one to end it?

 

Sex and arousal is largely mental. You've stayed with your wife physically, but where is your mind? With her? 100%?

Edited January 30, 2015 by xxoo

[Rainbowlove]

Why are you not able to get turned on with your partner?

 

Sometimes I am able to get somewhat turned on - it's just not as often as she is and not really all that intense. I could take it honestly 2 times a month. She wants it weekly or more. I try new things. I try new positions. I ask her to wear sexy clothes. Someone here suggested the lesbians try toys...that made me laugh out loud.

 

 

Are you depressed? NO

 

Is it guilt? My initial answer was no...but maybe a little. I have to honestly check this.

 

Are you trying to punish her for something? No

 

Are you trying to push her away so that you don't have to be the one to end it? Absolutely not.

 

Sex and arousal is largely mental. You've stayed with your wife physically, but where is your mind? With her? 100%?

 

My mind is slowly coming back around to her. 100%? No. Truthfully, I'm probably at 70% best. Perhaps I need more time to get to 100%. When it's the family unit, the three of us, I'm am 100% there. When it's just her and I and it's time to get physical, it feels very unnatural now - like there's something between us blocking me from getting all in. It's not even like I want my AP anymore, I don't...but I do still think about her, though not in a sexual way. Maybe there's guilt on that end that I still need to work through.

 

Thank you for your questions. They've helped me dig a little deeper for the truth.

 

RL

[Rainbowlove]

20 years is a long time. Right now you two are going through tough and rough times, so stick it out and don't give up. For the sake of your son, you two have to try your best to reconnect and try to remember the love, remember the fun times, the passionate times from the past...Not to recreate it but to build upon what you have now.

 

Do counseling, together and apart.

 

Marriage is not easy, and it certainly has it's up and down's. As long as you both are committed to making it work, giving it your best, then don't give up until the time comes you both (IF that time comes) feel it's not working.

 

Thank you for this reminder as well. I think after trying so hard to get to a place where our physical relationship feels natural again, the let down the other night was so disheartening. It felt like two steps forward, 500 steps back.

 

I do want to keep working at this. I do want my family to stay together. I am in no position to be a part time parent - financially, I could it. Emotionally, never.

 

I love being with my son everyday. I want him to feel safe and secure and to have us both daily. I don't want a broken family, so I keep working and talking through this with my wife.

 

I appreciate your words.

[stillafool]

We've been married 17 years, together 20 and we still have sex at least 4 times a week. Why don't you want sex with her?

[Furious]

I chose my wife. I said goodbye to my AP (whom I did love and desire). I don't regret it really.

 

It's been 15 months since ending my affair.

 

I thought I could get back to my wife. I wanted to. God, do I want to. I wish there was a switch I could flip to turn it back on...but I'm losing hope in that.

 

Thank you for your reply. Your words, though probably right, hurt me to hear.

 

We are both still young and attractive. She's late 30's and I'm middle 40's.

 

I'm not sure I'm ready to face it. I have moments when I know it's over...then I dig my heels in for another fight to save it.

 

And I think...I shouldn't have to work this hard at wanting my wife and partner. I blamed my affair for a while, but as that dust settles, I'm starting to see it's more than that...our issues pre-affair are still here.

 

And the lack of desire on my end has been prevalent for years...

 

You are right about knowing the answer, but my heart isn't ready to go there...

 

I watched my son struggle with separation anxiety when I moved out last year and it was heart breaking to witness and my wife was angry and tried to limit the amount of time I could see him...it broke me.

 

Quandary of epic proportions...

 

 

 

You seem to hold your affair as some lofty standard when in reality an affair is a snippet of long term reality.

 

Perhaps you're going through a mid life crisis, and the cliche " it's not about you, it's about me" is ironically relevant.

 

I think you crave security and at the same time crave excitement, that's an oxymoron type of life. You seem afraid to let go and risk what I think you know deep down that the highs comes with lows and that in between there's a mundane, ordinary quality to contentment.

 

For some people contentment is frightening , as it can make some people feel ordinary and unexciting. The risks, the gambling with excitement and need for it is something you seem attracted to. Some people crave drama and only feel alive when risking contentment.

 

You and your wife see things from a different lens and are different people. Your wife should be with someone who is a better fit to her wants and needs. I think you would be better off being single, and exploring the excitement of novelty.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Furious

[central]

Passion and desire is hard to rekindle, but there are some proven techniques that do work for many people. However, before you try them - if you are willing - get a complete physical and check that your testosterone levels are at least at or higher than the middle of the "normal" range. Desire is partly a function of hormones, so anything else you do can be undermined by sub-optimal hormones. And if you are overweight or in poor shape, lifting weights can naturally boost testosterone.

 

Anyway, the key to rebuilding desire is building intimacy and connection. That is best done by doing challenging activities together that take you outside your comfort zone and get you to work together to get through. The classic example is white water rafting together, but taking dance lessons, travel to a foreign country where you don't speak the language, or something similar can rekindle the connection. It may take a series of such activities to make the spark turn back into a flame, though.