Wife stresses about money - ALL THE TIME

[marriedagain]

First of all, sorry for the length but better to give you guys all the background.

 

My wife and I got married a little over a year ago after dating for two years. We're both in our 40s. It is the second marriage for me but for her it is her first one. I have two kids - 12 & 9 from a previous marriage.

 

We attended pre-marriage counseling together and while we discussed a log of issues there was one issue that could have been discussed more - money.

 

Before the facts - you will see somewhat large numbers here - please, I understand that we have it good, but keep in mind the issue that follows - I would really like your advice and thoughts.

 

Facts -

 

She makes approx $320k per year. I make approx $170k per year BUT have recently been told I'm being laid off at the end of the year so I am frantically attempting to find a new job.

 

She did not start working full time until about 6 years ago (she's a doctor) and I lost half of my savings in my divorce several years ago. Combined we have approx $750 in savings for retirement and $75k in rainy day savings. The rainy day fund has been funded by her. Retirement are approx 45/55 me/her.

 

I pay alimony (for about 1.5 more years) and in our pre-marriage counseling I was clear the one thing I would not give up was to continue paying for my kids Catholic education. She stated she would help with that.

 

After we got married we purchased our house. She put the downpayment on it. She has never owned a house before. Unfortunately it has been a lemon. Between water heaters, ice dams and leaky showers we've had to sink about $25k into it since we bought it. She has paid for 90% of it and still have not touched the rainy day fund. Due to my tight cash flow - I make 50% of all the payments along with her but cannot help out with major expenses until the alimony is off the books (I pay $2800/month).

 

We have little debt - just the mortgage, the alimony and her student loans (about $145k).

 

The kicker - I'm a finance director - and in my opinion - we're pretty darn lucky.

 

However, every time a major expense comes up or we want to spend money she goes into a funk. A serious funk. She says she's "tired" or "not feeling well". When the water heater broke she lost it for 3 days - hides in the basement. Finally I got her to talk about it. She's fearful that we won't have enough for retirement.

 

One day she showed up to dinner with my mom and the kids and was really peeved. Later that night she accused me of having my head in the sand when it comes to financial matters. Umm - I spend nothing on myself (have a 10 year old car) and basically all my money goes to the house, my kids, alimony and leftovers to spending time with my wife. She knew all this before she married me.

 

Just two days ago, I said that if I find a job I will use part of my severance (I',m getting six months) to go on a trek to base camp in Mt. Everest with some friends. Total cost approx $4000. The rest we can use to save for rainy funds. She's been in a funk for three days.

 

I created a spreadsheet showing her that at our current rate we'll have $7-8 million (yes, million) for retirement. She says it is not enough - no merit for that statement. Heck, a million is enough for me. SHe's afraid that there will be doomsday and we need money to live.

 

She states her fear is from her childhood when her parents had no money. They are fine now.

 

Also, I realize that things are said with emotions instead our brains sometimes but one thing she said last July stuck with me - when she went into a funk for a day (while on vacation visiting her mother with myself and my kids), she stated - "I won't spend any money unless I get a personal benefit, so I refuse to pay for your kids' education.".

 

Hmm - I never asked her once to do that - my kids are my responsibility - not hers. I've been clear about that. I was stupid enough to mention a fight I had with my ex wife where by she (ex) stated - "maybe your new wife will help pay for education". However, my current wife has a habit of saying "I can help" but when it comes time it is "no".

 

I understand separate finances in blended marriages. I get all that. But I am at my wits end on what to try. It seems like every few weeks she goes into a funk and she's rude, ignores us and always seems to happen when my kids are around so it makes it even more stressful.

 

Thoughts?

 

Please ask any questions.

 

Thank you!

[Art_Critic]

Some people are just worriers..

 

I would like to know how you got to 7-8 million from 825k ? Maybe she wonders the same....

 

BTW.. to only have 750k in for retirement with the kind of money she makes at her age is pretty low, that may also be where some of her down days come from, the feeling of having spent close to what she earned for so long, so maybe she feels like a failure...

 

Sorry about your upcoming job loss, hope you can re-employ fast.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Art_Critic

[therealmsfree]

Something else is going on and it has nothing to do with money. Money is the scapegoat here because you guys are pretty financially sound, even with your pending layoff.

 

She seems like someone who has a difficult time processing tough emotions, therefore, she freaks out over the smallest stuff (i.e. hiding out in the basement when the water heater broke). That's not a typical response.

 

 

~Ms. Free

Edited October 30, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
typo

[marriedagain]

Thanks for the quick couple of responses -

 

Art Critic - we sock away about 30% so applying a simply growth formula I get to that number. May come up short but it is what I agreed to shoot for. She did not start working until she was in her late 30s. It was a fight for her to get through med school. She's pretty tight with her money.

 

therealmsfree - I think you are right. She warned me she can have some pretty erratic moods. I just never thought they would be this wild and so often. She gets upset other times (I stopped sharing some of the conversations my ex and I have regarding the kids because my current wife would get very upset at my ex for her feelings and insults towards me).

 

One correction - she is engaged when something happens but when the funk comes (soon after the issue) she goes down fast. She escapes to the basement and reads her medical journals.

[Lurkeraspect]

Sorry for what you're going through. Your wife sounds depressed and stressed. Have you suggested some sort of therapy to her?

 

Also, I noticed that you talked about climbing Mt. Everest for a mere $4000. That's a dream. My ex husband did this about 6 years ago and the total price to include airfare, immunizations, gear, visa, getting to the Everest Base Camp, hotels, food, Sherpas, climbing fee ($17k), Yaks (yes yaks), insurance was almost $50k. $4000 won't even cover your trash fee, which you may or may not get back.

 

Anyway, good luck.

[marriedagain]

Lurkeraspect - thanks for the reply. I have not brought up the concept of therapy. Interesting you wrote that as our pre-marriage counselor suggested some therapy for her to deal with some issues with her father. I've spent a week at his place last spring and a few days about a year ago. She's described as a narcissist. Regarding Everest - just base camp. With two kids I'm not sure I want to risk major injury or worse climbing the mountain. Plus I like treks more - I did Kilimanjaro a couple of years ago.

[WasOtherWoman]

Sounds to me like she is reacting to the inequity regarding who pays for what in your life together. Even though she knew what she would be getting into, probably the amount of money that is taken out of your household every month, now that she lives with it and sees it happening is bothering her.

 

Even though, I am sure that intellectually she understands that this money needs to go to take care of your children, emotionally it is probably a hard thing for her to deal with.

 

What makes me think this is her comment "I won't spend any money unless I get a personal benefit, so I refuse to pay for your kids' education." Is your ex-wife contributing to the kids education, or is it just you? If it is just you, and your ex is not / not able to contribute, that could be another issue that is causing her to act this way.

[DaisyLeigh1967]

She needs counseling.

 

Let her live off of 50K a year. Might put **** in perspective.

[marriedagain]

WasOtherWoman - Thanks! Actually I think you're on to something there. She has mentioned on several occasions she is "not used to spending this much". Still, the only extra she's spending is on repairs. Actually, the monthly regular expenses are lower than what she had before marriage but I see the sticker shock. The ex is not helping with schooling. Although not legally bound I've been doing it because I value it for my kids. I have let my ex know high school is 3x the cost so she'll have to help. Not a fun conversation (wait until I tell her I'm losing my job - that should be a fun one).

 

DaisyLeigh1967 - Thanks. Yeah, she may need some. 50K a year is still not bad but after she amount she makes know it may seem harsh. :-)

[Hope Shimmers]

Wow.

 

Your wife has problems and needs help.

 

She spent 3 days in the basement when the water heater went out? Seriously?

 

And I don't know how much you paid for your house or how old it is, but putting $25k in it to replace water heaters and fix what sounds like plumbing issues doesn't make the house a "lemon". Try restoring a historic house built in 1876 and on the National Register of Historic Places (which I am currently doing) if you want to hear about money sinking endlessly into a house. I would love to say it was only $25K.

 

I have the same profession as your wife, although it sounds like she didn't graduate until almost 40 years old. She has no experience really in terms of career/savings/planning and zero experience in marriage or how to deal with children from a partner's previous marriage. She's got a lot to learn. I don't see great things in your future, unfortunately, sorry.

[marriedagain]

HopeShimmers - you lived up to your name. Thanks. :-(

 

You're right she did not graduate until later in life and daddy helped her a lot. Not to defend her but she tries with the kids. You're right - it will be a learning process....long one at that.

 

Good luck with the restoration.

[whichwayisup]

Your wife needs a reality check! She's a Dr, making a very good 3 figure income and will be making tons more in the next 10-20 years. She has no reason to worry about money! Thousands of people, make a lot less than she does with 2 incomes and they do fine. And if she feels retiring on 8 mil isn't enough, there's something wrong with her way of thinking.

[SawtoothMars]

HopeShimmers - you lived up to your name. Thanks. :-(

You're right she did not graduate until later in life and daddy helped her a lot. Not to defend her but she tries with the kids. You're right - it will be a learning process....long one at that.

Good luck with the restoration.

 

My wife is a doctor too, but going the opposite direction she thinks we can live on her income alone and is pushing me to be a stay at home dad.

 

I'm thinking her issues have nothing to do with money. It's just a smokescreen for her real issue. Perhaps she is unhappy with how much money you make.

[Mascara]

Sounds like she had the kind of upbringing I had - no money and constant worry. Trust me, that NEVER leaves you. My parents are also doing great now, but still.

 

Secondly, I had an ex who I considered overly generous to his ex wife. She refused to work and he wanted to voluntarily pay her half his salary, so admittedly different to your situation. But when he was made redundant, he also wanted to spend his severance before he even found a job. The trip may be "only" 4k, but you don't even know when you'll get another job. My ex thought he'd walk into one and he didn't. Plan your trip for after you've secured another job, otherwise she'll be inadvertently paying for it.

 

The other thing she's indirectly paying for is your family commitments. If she's paying for almost all the house repairs, it's because you can't due to the private education thing. I'm not surprised she's in a funk over your trip - instead of reimbursing her for the fact she's paid for the house (since you have the kids schooling to pay for), you're going off with your buddies.

 

Can you afford to pay your share of living expenses PLUS alimony, child support and schooling? If not, then something will have to give. If it's the living expenses, then at least be considerate enough to not go off on holiday.

[marriedagain]

SawtoothMars - Not sure if she is unhappy with how much I make or the point Mascara made after you - she is unhappy with the fact that indirectly, because I pay alimony and for my kids' stuff, she needs to pay for all the house repairs.

 

Mascara - Thanks. There may be a lot of truth to what you state. To address your points - while I don't have a job yet, if I don't I'm already lined up to do consulting with a firm - albeit at potentially lower pay but my opinion is that something is better than nothing. I have my kids 50% of the time so I'm going to work my butt off when they are in school (weeks I have them) and most of the time weeks I don't. I've been clear with my wife - if I have to go flip burgers to pay for my half of the living expenses, and my other responsibilities I will. She states I don't have to but my point is that I don't want to "rely" on her.

 

Also - I pay for alimony, child support, half of all "regular" living expenses (mortgage, utilities, home needs, etc) and I would say 20% of one time needs - such as minor repairs. I just can't help when a $10,000 bill for fixing a leak in the shower comes up.

 

The vacation thing is just a small issue. In my note this is an issue that happens every time a major expense comes up. I'm mature enough to know that if I have zero income it is ridiculous of me to go on vacation. My concern is the pattern.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I appreciate it!

[WasOtherWoman]

married... i also think a lot of it may come from the fact that your ex is not really contributing.

 

We were in a similar situation, both very high earners, ex-wife, very low earner. We didn't have any money problems and my steps were already of age, so no child support issues, but... one of my steps was about to go to college which we were more than happy to pay for.

 

Both kids are grown and married now, and we happily help out, if needed and spoil the heck out of the grandkids, BUT... until i came to love my steps, i have to say that there was a bit of "why the hell are we paying for everything while the ex contributes nothing". It wasn't even like we had to sacrifice to pay, it was, for me anyway, the fact that she was not doing anything for them.

 

I have a feeling that THIS is causing some of the rub with her. And, for the folks saying she just needs to "get over it".. i hear you, but... please remember that when someone does not have kids and all of a sudden has them, it is definitely an adjustment. Granted she is acting a bit immaturely, but hopefully as her relationship with the kids grows stronger, this will shift.

[Arieswoman]

marriedagain,

 

A serious funk. She says she's "tired" or "not feeling well". When the water heater broke she lost it for 3 days - hides in the basement. Finally I got her to talk about it. She's fearful that we won't have enough for retirement.

 

Sorry, but this is not normal. Please talk to her and try to get her to accept some help for this anxiety, because that is what it is IMO.

 

Good luck.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

I would say her issues stem from perhaps anxiety or is some sort of mask for other, "real" issues, but a few things you said really bothered me.

 

The comments she made about not wanting to spend any money unless there was a personal benefit and the fact that when you came to her with an almost almost eight figure sum for your retirement fund, she said it still wasn't enough are the most troubling. She sounds greedy, selfish and miserly but I don't think this is a pure hunger for amass large sums of cash. This feels a lot more like a mental health issue.

 

In fact, it sounds like she's dealing with a manifestation of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Although less prevalent (thus less discussed) than say, frequent hand washing and germaphobia, obsession over money is a very clear trait of the disorder. Money is viewed as something to be hoarded for future catastrophes.

 

Her preoccupation with earning and saving more and spending less and in fact even showing signs of depression and anxiety when money has to go out lead me to suspect this may be the case. The level of obsession she exhibits in regards to your - already sizable - retirement fund when you are well on track to live quite comfortably is telling. I also suspect she may even be aware of this or other mental health issues she may be dealing with - hence her describing her moods to you as "erratic".

Edited October 31, 2014 by Lernaean_Hydra

[marriedagain]

Lernaean_Hydra - Thanks for the comments. I have wondered myself if there is some mental issue. I noted in the original post or one of the follow-ups that our pre-marriage counselor suggested she see a therapist. I think she is very selfish and she has even admitted she acts selfishly. However, I would understand it if she were spending the money. I think it is a genuine fear of not having any in the future. However, as I've told her - we're well on our way (assuming I find a job relatively quickly) and we still have money left over. It just appears to be an incessant need to squirrel it away. I may keel over before we get to use it!

 

Arieswoman - I think it is anxiety at some level.

 

How do I raise the issue she needs to see someone?

[marriedagain]

Hydra - she has also stated she is OCD and I've noticed it. It is nice to have a clean house but she's after me when I cook to clean up! She's like that little robot that cleans up dirt after WALL-E (if you've ever seen that movie).

[WasOtherWoman]

I think she is very selfish and she has even admitted she acts selfishly. However, I would understand it if she were spending the money. I think it is a genuine fear of not having any in the future. However, as I've told her - we're well on our way (assuming I find a job relatively quickly) and we still have money left over. It just appears to be an incessant need to squirrel it away. I may keel over before we get to use it!

 

 

People who don't have kids and have been single until late in life ARE selfish, there's no two ways about it. I am one of those and, really, you only have yourself to please. I definitely needed to make a paradigm shift when I got married.

 

Also - even though you project you will have millions at retirement (and lord knows, these days you need at least that!!) she may be the type that needs to see it in the bank (I am that way also.... we have many millions and I still worry. silly, huh? but i can't help the way i feel.

 

You have not been married that long, right? I think she will adjust. It definitely took me a few years to go from single thinking to married with family thinking.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

How do I raise the issue she needs to see someone?

 

This is tough because no one likes being told they need to "see someone" as it often feels like you're just calling them crazy. However you can soften the blow first by educating yourself on what might be going on with her.

 

With the economy still reeling from the global financial crisis and Ponzi schemes, people are scared, anxious and more importantly, paranoid. The psychological field is just barely catching on to the fact that there are a vast number of people in need of counseling specifically targeted at dealing with monetary issues alone. A new field called "financial therapy" is on the rise however it may be hard to find a skilled professional in your area, though it's worth looking into.

 

I would start by doing a bit of research on the topic of a thing dubbed 'Money Paranoia' and then picking out the best pieces of literature relating to it that you can find to back you up. The next time she broaches the subject of money, freaks out or in anyway overreacts, tell her that you love her but that you're also worried about her and have some concerns about what her anxiety is doing both her mental and physical heath - chronic worrying can manifest physically in some starting ways.

 

Show her the literature you've found and suggest you both go to therapy not only in order to better deal with her issues but also to help the two of you find a good balance in terms of dealing with your finances going forward.

[Arieswoman]

Marriedagain,

 

Arieswoman - I think it is anxiety at some level.

 

How do I raise the issue she needs to see someone?

 

I'm not sure, but I think it goes something like this ;-

 

"Darling, you know I love you and want the best for you, for both of us, for that matter, but I am worried about you. It hurts me when I see you so stressed and anxious about things, like that day you hid in the cellar. I want to make it better for you, but you need to help me with this. What can I do to make it better, to make you happy? Do you think it might be an idea for us to go and talk to someone about this? "

 

Good luck.

[beach]

Why aren't you using the "rainy day money" for these unexpected emergencies that come up?

 

If your wife gets worried about money then what can you eliminate as outgoing money?

 

Maybe the kids private education? Yes - you could change that.

 

The house? Yes, you could sell it.

 

Start thinking of ways to reduce outgoing money...

 

Unless you have a better way of increasing money coming in.

[marriedagain]

Beach - Thanks. I have suggested selling the house but she does not want to pay commission.

 

Private Education - I hear you. But I feel this is something we clearly agreed on pre-marriage. The houses expenses that come up have been unforeseen and I do agree- the rainy fund should be used for that!

 

She could also give up more but she won't - she believes she earned the right to get herself nice things.

 

I think Hydra nailed it - this will take time. I know she is adjusting. For me it is difficult when she goes into the funks. They are really lengthy and troublesome.