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Denial Ain't Just a River in Egypt


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So, here I am.. back again.

 

I was reading through some of my old posts on here about my relationship from several years ago, and it was horrifying to realize that nothing has changed. All of the problems we had back then are still the same... I'm in dire need of some advice again. Let me just briefly provide a background:

 

My husband and I have been married for a year. I'm 29, he's 31. We did long distance for 3 years (Boston to California). We lived together for one year before we got married. Our main issues: Financial problems- Hubs was never taught how to manage money, has $5,000 credit card debt that he pays minimum balance on, and he's an impulsive spender. We have NO savings, and we constantly struggle to pay bills and keep up with our monthly expenses. He's always saying that he's "broke".... It causes frequent fights. We both work full-time and make a decent salary, too. Sex life: Problems for several years- different sex drives, lack of communication, he's very reserved in the bedroom and doesn't express himself openly or passionately. No experimentation or passion left, no kissing or foreplay. Basically, I prefer masturbating over being with him. I have sort of created my own "private" sex life to satisfy myself. It's very sad. It's been extremely frustrating. He becomes very defensive when I try to discuss our problems in a calm manner. Recently, he told me that I was allowed to have sex with other men to "get more experience" and enjoy myself.. I felt ambivalent about that. It mostly just made me feel sad and defeated.

 

Fast forward to the present: We have discussed seeing a therapist for at least a year, but it has never been made enough of a priority to actually happen... We just talked about it again the other day, and we looked up some names, but nothing happened.. again.... We have been in denial for the past few years about our problems. One day last week, it just hit me that these problems aren't going to get better and we need to work on them. I don't know how therapy is going to go, either. I'm actually kind of scared of going to therapy. I'm afraid that we will realize that we are incompatible, or it will be really awkward and he will become defensive again and we won't get anywhere..

 

Sorry, I'm rambling. My question is, who here has done marriage and family therapy OR sex therapy? Did it help? I'm feeling really stuck. We both love each other very much and we have a solid foundation. He even moved to the east coast to be with me. I can't imagine getting divorced, but our problems are more serious than we realize, and I don't see myself staying with him for my entire life. I'm also at the age where I'm starting to think about having children,but I don't want to get pregnant yet because of the state of our marriage. We are really good at hiding and denying our problems..but they are slowly eating away at our relationship. It's funny, the two things married couples fight about most are money and sex. Go figure.

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Haha I wish I could go back to being 29, make myself book an appointment with a therapist, figure out me and my wife were incompatible, get a clean divorce and get on with my life. That would have saved me from the next 2 years with her and probably prevented me from getting into a crappy rebound relationship I can't get out of. Just do it. If HE won't do it then go by yourself (and tell him you are). Maybe he will go to the 2nd appointment. Maybe he won't and you'll know he doesn't care to work on the relationship.

 

I did 1 session of therapy with my ex-wife before we separated. It was pretty much a waste of time and money. I don't know why, I think it was a combination of the guy being crappy and both of us having very closed attitudes. In retrospect I guess maybe it helped me see there was no way for us to communicate properly. But it was as you described - rather awkward and defensive. Me and my SO are currently seeing a therapist and so far so good I really think it is going to help us either improve our relationship or decide it is done. Either way will be a lot better than the current status quo.

 

Don't get pregnant or your problems will increase tenfold...

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We have been in denial for the past few years about our problems. ... I don't know how therapy is going to go, either. I'm actually kind of scared of going to therapy. I'm afraid that we will realize that we are incompatible, or it will be really awkward and he will become defensive again and we won't get anywhere.

You ALREADY know that, as things stand now, you are incompatible and are facing insurmountable issues. Therapy won't change that fact or make it better or worse; it will only help you to accept what is already your reality. If you're lucky, therapy will at least get you out of denial, complacency and co-dependency.

 

It likely will be awkward for you to have to face -- and accept -- the facts of what you already know. If your H does or does not become defensive, and if you do or do not do the same, the facts and problems of your relationship and marriage cannot be made worse or better by mere fact of a therapist knowing about them and/or either of you getting defensive about them.

 

That is, you have absolutely nothing to lose by at least making efforts to improve things with help of however many and types of therapists as it will take. Perhaps...start being MORE AFRAID of how things are right now and will stay without some third-party intervention. That IS the scariest thing, yes?

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SawtoothMars

Sorry, I'm rambling. My question is, who here has done marriage and family therapy OR sex therapy? Did it help? I'm feeling really stuck. We both love each other very much and we have a solid foundation. He even moved to the east coast to be with me. I can't imagine getting divorced, but our problems are more serious than we realize, and I don't see myself staying with him for my entire life. I'm also at the age where I'm starting to think about having children,but I don't want to get pregnant yet because of the state of our marriage. We are really good at hiding and denying our problems..but they are slowly eating away at our relationship. It's funny, the two things married couples fight about most are money and sex. Go figure.

 

You need to just pull the trigger and do this. It isn't going to get better on it's own. You literally have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

I did this therapy, but we waited 9 years to do it. At that point it was too late to fix anything.

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Sawtoothmars, I know.. you're right. I'm going to have to be the one to do it.

 

Ronni W., yes.. I think it is the scariest thing to think about what will happen if we don't have a "third party intervention.." I've read so many times that sex problems are characteristic of larger issues in the relationship. I think we fall into this category. Our sex life was never amazing, but it was A LOT better in the beginning than it is now. You also have to keep in mind that we were long distance for the majority of our relationship, and that's not real life. Seeing each other once/month or every 6 weeks isn't the way real life works... it was always such a novelty to see each other. That feeling wore off pretty fast once we were living together full time. Maybe that's part of our problem, actually...you don't really get to know someone through long distance.. I mean, you do, but you don't. The honeymoon is over.

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I dragged my wife to both marriage therapist, and later a Sex & Marriage therapist. Each was carefully selected by me to have the best impact possible on the issues I wanted each therapist to work with her on.

 

Without giving you our whole sad story - My view on the issues was that she had changed for the worse on things over a time period That is with the various issues she was having - she did not always have them. Example she used to be very sexual creative and good libido - but it died off.

 

Some of the therapy has worked but its been like moving a mountain inches each year.

 

However in your case you seem to indicate the sex was never good, he always had money problems, etc. I suspect this kind of major change is far more difficult in a person - but not impossible. I also wonder if these problems have always been there - what attracted you to continue the relationship? What has changed for you from then to now? Or you just hoped he would get better on his own?

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dichotomy-

To answer your last questions: I actually wasn't aware of his money problems in the beginning, because we were long distance. I didn't know his salary or how much credit card debt he had, etc.. When we first started dating in the same city, I had no idea about his financial situation. We were just in the dating/honeymoon phase... I only learned about his financial issues later on, when we were already engaged.

 

In terms of the sex, to be completely honest, I wasn't initially physically attracted to him when I met him. But he won me over with his charming personality, sense of humor, and kindness. I do find him attractive, but not the "rip your clothes off" kind of attractive. It doesn't help that he's gained weight over the last year and we are both out of physical shape. He is a shy/introverted person, and he has trouble expressing his feelings.. this also translates to the bedroom. He tends to be emotionally and physically restricted. He doesn't just "let loose" as you would hope after so many years (we've been together for 6 years now). There was never real passion in terms of sex..but the frequency was more in the past, as was the willingness to try new things. At this point, we don't do any sexual activities more than once per month.

 

Thank you for your input... I'm worried that it seems like therapy hasn't helped too many of you guys.

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Ronni W., yes.. I think it is the scariest thing to think about what will happen if we don't have a "third party intervention." ... You also have to keep in mind that we were long distance for the majority of our relationship,

No, you do NOT have to keep that in mind. That is, in fact, the LAST THING you have to keep in mind. In any case, you said that "nothing has changed" from "several years ago". That does not suggest that the LDR-part of things currently has anything much to do with anything at all.

 

The ONLY thing YOU have to keep in mind is real life and how real life works. You and your husband have NO CHANCE of this working out happily for either one of you, without doing something drastically different than just keep doing what you've been doing; ignoring and denying that you don't have the expertise, insights, wisdom, (relationship) skills, whatever-you-want-to-call-all-of-what's-lacking-between-the-two-of-you, to fix this on your own/with only the expertise, insights, etc., etc., currently existing between the two of you.

 

If you are ready, willing and prepared to call it quits because "the honeymoon is over"...then let your H in on your decision, and start interviewing for a divorce lawyer.

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I didn't come here and ask for advice because I am thinking of getting a divorce... I came here to see if anyone else has had experience with marriage counseling/therapy. I am relatively inexperienced with relationships, and this is my first marriage. As I said before, we are in love, we have a good foundation, and I want to make this work. Divorce is the last option to me right now.... I just wanted to clarify that.

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I think you should just call it quits before you drag it out too long. By no means should you bring kids into this marriage.

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Samara,

not because you're thinking about divorce but because what you are thinking (all thoughts related to fear of therapy/counseling) isn't going to help with it not ultimately ending up in divorce.

 

Even if therapy has not worked for 98% of people, I would suggest that it still is worth doing/trying to hopefully be in that 2% of couples for whom it did work. (I have no idea of the actual stats, I'm just saying 'even if'.)

But, if - *IF* - you just allow the fear to overtake you and let it be in control of your marriage...then...

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Therapy has worked for us. Just going together makes a statement that you care. The actual therapy was very helpful. Don't give up yet!

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a baby will magnify sex and money problems by 7.65 x 10 to the 20th power. no matter what you do, DO NOT GET PREGANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you do nothing else about this, do not get pregnant!

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We went to counseling a few years back and it did help.

 

 

What the counseling did for us was there were a number of things that I thought I was doing right and my wife was doing wrong, and there were a number of things my wife thought she was doing right and I was doing wrong.

 

 

It took an educated, experienced professional that we both had confidence in to put his finger in her face and tell her she was fcking up and that I was going to pack up my stuff and leave and she was going to be a single mother on her own if she kept doing what she was doing, before she realized that I was serious.

 

 

and it took him pointing a finger in my face and telling me what I was fcking up and that if I didn't step up to the plate and change how I was doing business, that she wasn't going to change how she was treating me.

 

 

once we saw how serious the other was and realized what we needed to do to make the other respond in the manner we needed, then we were able to get back on track and move forward.

 

 

cont....

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Here's the catch -

 

 

......some things had to blow up and catch fire before either of us started actually hearing the other one and taking it seriously.

 

 

There had to be blood shed and tears and a loss before either of us woke up and smelled the coffee.

 

 

For us it took a huge blow-up fight that lasted for days in which I got the "I love you but not in love with you" (which typically means another man, but I've never been able to uncover any evidence of that) and I started getting serious about getting a divorce and was starting to make plans and preparations to move on with my life, before we took each other seriously and started actually listening to what the other was saying.

 

 

 

 

And unfortunately from the way you are describing things, I am concerned that you two will need that wake up call as well. All you have been doing is whining and bitching and that has just become background noise and part and parcel of your relationship dynamics. In other words it is just a pattern that you whine and bitch and he gets defensive and rug sweeps and no one actually does any kind of "ACTION" to change things. It's all just talk, and not effective talk at that.

 

 

Talk hasn't changed anything in years so more talk isn't going to change anything now. There has to be some kind of change through action.

 

 

Unfortunately as I said, many times something has to blow up before people wake up and realize the seriousness and are motivated to take action.

 

 

That can be like us in which it is a huge blow-up which hurts so bad and leaves such a lingering pain that it wakes people up to the issues. For others it can be an affair, or someone packing their bags and leaving the house to stay with relatives.

 

 

For others it even takes being served with divorce papers and realizing that they are going to lose their house and half their money and half their stuff.

 

 

Everyone hopes that things can be addressed before it gets that bad but unfortunately that is rarely the case.

 

 

You are stuck in a bad rut where you whine and he poo-poos you and then withdraws into his shell.

 

 

You're probably going to have to blow something up to send the message that it is do-or-die time.

 

 

You may need to pack up and move in with a friend or relative and not have contact with him until he actually picks up the phone to schedule a counseling appt.

 

 

You may need to ask him to leave and stay with a friend or get some cheap apt or motel room until he grows some balls and addresses the issues.

 

 

You hope that you can address this before you start the paperwork and expense of a divorce but if you are really at that point, then that might be what it takes.

 

 

The main point I want to make here is you are past the point where words have any effect. You are going to have to take ACTIONS and those actions may need to be somewhat drastic.

 

 

You aren't being heard here and no one is doing anything. It's time to DO something before something truly damaging occurs like an affair or a divorce or someone waking out for good happens.

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I didn't come here and ask for advice because I am thinking of getting a divorce... I came here to see if anyone else has had experience with marriage counseling/therapy.

 

 

 

 

We realize that. but what we are all saying is that by the time we all got to therapy and had it be effective, we were pretty much at the point of being ready, willing and able to divorce and something significant had happened that jolted us into taking it seriously enough to actually do something about it.

Sometimes you have to willing to end a marriage in order to save it. (I don't think you'll understand that stand that statement that statement now, but you will soon)

 

 

 

 

I am relatively inexperienced with relationships, and this is my first marriage.

 

 

Meaning, you aren't seeing it as your last. that is a very ominous sign.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I said before, we are in love, we have a good foundation,

 

 

I question that. your foundation was through the filter of a cross-continental LDR. LDRs aren't real. Your problems began when you started having to deal with each other day in and day out.

Your foundation began when your LDR ended and you were together in the same place at the same time.

 

 

 

 

and I want to make this work.

 

 

 

 

But does he? To work takes two people. To not work only takes one.

 

 

Divorce is the last option to me right now.... I just wanted to clarify that.

 

 

We understand that. What some of us are trying to say is that divorce may have to be a viable option in order for both of you to take this seriously enough to make any effective steps to fix it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Responses above.

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We both love each other very much and we have a solid foundation.

You have different sex drives and preferences, financial goals, methods of communication and "love languages". Based on your description, trying to see the solidity to your foundation.

 

Your unhappiness is apparent. Were he asked, how would he describe his marriage and satisfaction with it :confused: ?

 

Mr. Lucky

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Oldshirt: I see your point. Regarding the long distance, I have to add that we were together in the same city for 8 months before he moved away and we began the LDR. However, we didn't live together during that time, and it was our "honeymoon" period of dating, courting each other, and newness. The majority of our relationship has been an LDR though.. And I do agree that when we started seeing each other "day in and day out" that we had more problems.. I recall frequent arguing and sex problems back when we first started living together in California (I went out there for 1 year to do my internship and we lived together then). To answer your question, yes, I know he wants our relationship to work. However, he hasn't taken any action to fix things. But he gets very upset if I mention divorce, or that I'm unhappy.

 

Mr. Lucky- I think that he's happy. I'm the one who isn't. He seems satisfied with the way our relationship is. Of course, he wants more sex, but otherwise he seems satisfied. He seems confused as to why I'm so unhappy, even though I TELL him all the time. I'm very open and honest with him. He knows exactly why I'm unhappy, and the things I want to change, but nothing ever gets done. It's like we are in such denial as a couple that things are slowly wasting away without anyone realizing it.

 

I wanted to add that when I say "we have a solid foundation," I am referring to the long time we've been together (almost 7 years), and the fact that we've been through a lot of hardships and struggles as a couple- long distance relationship, deaths, moving, no money, grad school, etc. etc. We have been a source of support and comfort to each other for many years, and we have a relationship that is based upon love and trust. We are loyal to each other, and we truly do love each other. That is all.

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Poppygoodwill

People go to couples therapy to either find out if the relationship is going to work, or is already over. Until you get in the door, you won't know the answer.

 

shut off your computer, pick up your phone, dial the marriage counsellor's office and make an appointment. Take a first real step to finding a way through this, knowing that you might not like the answer, but having faith that whatever happens, it will be for the best in teh long run.

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However, he hasn't taken any action to fix things.

 

Because he isn't unhappy. You are the one who is unhappy therefore he has no motivation to fix things.

 

To be honest, if you want your marriage to work you are going to have to be the one to get the ball rolling. Your husband is a shy, introverted man (I went back and read some of your previous threads as well) and has his head stuck in the sand.

 

More worrying to me, while these are valid issues, from your previous threads you don't seem happy with your life at large. I'm not sure if that has changed for you, but if it has not you need to address that on a personal level. It is possible you could be projecting some of your personal unhappiness onto your marriage. Which again, not saying these aren't valid issues because they are.

 

The money thing seems to me to be an easy fix, but maybe I'm just from a different school of thought. If I were in your position I would simply tell him that you feel you should pool all of your income and have one person (read you) manage all of the bills because the current system you have is not working out financially.

 

The sex thing is like a mountain to overcome, but if he wants sex more and his problem is just being shy and restricted that may be something he can eventually overcome with therapy.

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He refused to go so I went by myself, several years ago. It was helpful in that it made me realize a lot about myself. A good therapist won't tell you that you are/aren't compatible, or if you're good together or not, they will help you to work through your differences and increase communication and ultimately make up your own mind(s).

 

So for us it did work for a long time but issues are creeping back. I'm tired of being the one to do all the work by myself, because really, that's how it played out since he was not willing to go. If you are both willing to put the time and effort in it can be very worthwhile.

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heartshaped-

I think you're right.. I'm not particularly happy with my life at large... I question a lot of things: my career choice, my choice in friends, etc... I have other issues, yes, but who doesn't?

 

I think one of our biggest problems is that we often don't make our relationship a priority.. we get SO busy with work, commuting, and other commitments that we don't give our marriage the time and attention that it deserves, and our problems sort of simmer underneath and don't get dealt with. The financial issues come and go, but the sex issues have been going on for several years now. I'm not sure if we need a sex therapist, marriage and family therapist, or someone else... It's been me holding us back lately, because I've never done couples counseling before and it makes me nervous... I'm a very private person and I don't like talking about my personal affairs with a stranger.. I know it's confidential and all, but the whole situation makes me uncomfortable. My husband is also very restricted emotionally, and I don't know how he's going to act in therapy. I just have to get over my fears and make the call.

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What turtles said...I wish I could go back to my 29 year old self and tell her this won't get better and you deserve more...because 2 months later I WAS pregnant and that was that.

 

Several years and 3 kids later...I'm in an affair. I wish he would at least tell me I can get fulfilled somewhere else, because he shot down my open marriage request, yet did nothing.

 

 

On the other hand I love EVERYTHING else about my life...I'm not 40 yet, attractive, fit, successful career and great friends. But my marriage is in the toilet.

 

 

This will not change. You either live with it, or move on..... my strong advice? Move on.

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  • 1 month later...
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I decided to re-visit this thread... we've actually taken the step to call some therapists, but no one has gotten back to us yet. At least there's that.

 

I'm sitting at home now, it's almost 10 pm and my husband is out at a happy hour with his work friends. This is the third night this week that he's been out late drinking/at bars, etc. with coworkers for various events. I usually plan on eating dinner alone.. again. We haven't had sex in probably.. a month? Our frequency has actually gotten even less than the last time I posted here. I didn't think things could get worse, but they have. Luckily, we aren't arguing everyday, but our sexual frequency has decreased. I feel like being married is exhausting sometimes.. Sorry, I'm just venting. I wish I knew how to make things better. I guess that's why I post on here and I'm trying to get help for us. When I think about our situation, I feel really depressed. I know we love each other, but I just don't think we are happy.. all the commuting, long days, VERY short weekends, lack of sex.. almost constant arguing (probably because of the lack of intimacy). Everything is all messed up. We are still "newlyweds" but it doesn't feel like it. I feel like I'm living the life of a 50 year old, and I'm only 29. I don't know what to do anymore, I guess.

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Samara11, I didn't read all the posts but your original post completely and some of your posts. It appears that sex is almost nil among you and there was no foreplay. I had similar problems like you. Have you considered the possibility of him being gay or at least bi-sexual?

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