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be vewy vewy quiet

We’ve been married 12 years and together 17 in total. We have a great open and honest relationship.

 

We often share our fantasies and have occasionally acted them out. They have always been just things involving us; blindfolds, in public, being watched, tied up etc. Nothing too far away from I would consider normal.

 

About a year ago I was shocked when one night it was suggested we should include another person, a man or woman but preferably another man. As it was only a fantasy I didn’t dwell on it but over this last year it has become a recurring theme with the mentions of it getting more regular.

 

I’m starting to think that there is more to this than just fantasy, and that it’s a way of softening me for when it is actually asked for real. To be honest over the last year I have thought more and more about it and I’m not even sure I’m totally against it anymore, I guess the softening approach is working.

 

I have asked about it and am continually told “I will never cheat” which does not answer the question at all or “I would be too nervous to do it” which to me implies that they want to but don’t think they could.

 

Am I reading too much into this? Fantasies are healthy and we have never had issues but this seems to be one that is being dwelled upon and I’m worried that on some level it is wanted to be acted out in reality.

 

Is there any way to resolve this or does it not even need resolving at all?

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I get the feeling you are intentionally trying to appear gender neutral so I will just assume you are the female half and your husband is the one broaching the subject of bringing others into your bedroom.

As some background info on me, my wife and I have been involved with swinging for almost 9 years and while we are no longer actively involved in the swinging lifestyle as an actual lifestyle, we do still occasionally play with some special, established friends. Back a few years ago, we were very involved in the lifestyle for about a half dozen years and many of our friends are also involved in that lifestyle.

I will address some of your specific points below -

 

About a year ago I was shocked when one night it was suggested we should include another person, a man or woman but preferably another man. As it was only a fantasy I didn’t dwell on it but over this last year it has become a recurring theme with the mentions of it getting more regular.

 

 

That is an elephant in the room that is going to have to be directly addressed at some point very very soon.

 

I’m starting to think that there is more to this than just fantasy, and that it’s a way of softening me for when it is actually asked for real.

 

 

This is fact.

 

 

To be honest over the last year I have thought more and more about it and I’m not even sure I’m totally against it anymore, I guess the softening approach is working.

 

 

This is how all swingers and other people who are involved in consensual nonmonogamy got to where they are. Noone was living a perfectly normal, traditional, monogamous marriage and one day decided to invite others into their marital bed out of the blue over morning coffee one day. It is a process that requires lots of communication, soul searching, boundary setting and rule making. It took us approximately two years from the first mention of it until the first physical encounter. That is probably fairly typical for a lot of couples with some taking longer and some taking less.

 

 

I have asked about it and am continually told “I will never cheat” which does not answer the question at all

 

 

Cheating and consensual nonmonogamy are two completely different planes of reality and neither have any correlation with the other.

'I will never cheat' is a deflection of the question and is not an answer. Again, this is an elephant in the room that must be addressed openly and directly. Do not allow any more deflections of the issues.

 

 

Consensual nonmonogamy requires open, honest direct communication. Traditional monogamy requires open, honest, direct communication. Deflection of questions and avoidance of the issues must stop.

 

 

or “I would be too nervous to do it” which to me implies that they want to but don’t think they could.

 

 

Noone thinks they can until they do. I would have never dreamed in a million zillion years that I would ever have other naked bodies in my marital bed. It's kind of mind-boggeling to think of and talk about initially. But once you start peeling away the layers discussing the parameters and processes, the possibilities are endless.

 

 

 

 

Am I reading too much into this?

 

 

No. You aren't reading too much into it. You know what is taking place. You are allowing too much skirting around the issues and not dealing with it directly enough.

 

 

Fantasies are healthy and we have never had issues but this seems to be one that is being dwelled upon and I’m worried that on some level it is wanted to be acted out in reality.

 

 

It is. ....by both of you. Now it's time to bring things out of the smoke and mirrors and deal with them directly on the table openly.

 

Is there any way to resolve this or does it not even need resolving at all?

 

 

It absolutely must be addressed.

You address this by telling your husband that you won't judge him, leave him or be offended or shocked to hear what it is he wants to say. Tell him to Velcro his balls on and open up and discuss what he is thinking.

..... then you must do the same.

You too must be open and honest and up front about your curiosities, desires and goals, as well as your boundaries, limits and parameters.

Both of you need to feel safe and not judged in order to do this. Both of you must assure as well as demand nonjudgement, compassion, respect and open, honest communication for you to either move forwards towards some form of nonmonogamy or to remain monogamous.

Both require boundaries, limits and parameters and open communication. This little dance you two are doing where you are each trying to get the other to show their cards first isn't working any more and is going to cause misunderstands, stress and problems very soon.

As this is a sexual and relationship boundary issue and since it is your husband that is dropping all this little hints and innuendos, it is his responsibility to bring it out into the open and onto the table.

Then you have the responsibility to respond to that openly and honestly with your own interests and desires and parameters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My responses and recommendations above. Good luck and check back here frequently and let us know how it is going.

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be vewy vewy quiet
I get the feeling you are intentionally trying to appear gender neutral so I will just assume you are the female half

 

You are correct in that I was trying to remain gender neutral. I have asked this question before at other sites and the answers always seem to follow along gender lines.

 

When I told them I was the husband the replies seemed to think my wife wanted others but it was only fantasy, when I said nothing on a different site and they assumed I was the wife they basically said my husband was a pervert and probably already cheating. That's why I chose to remain neutral but for the record I am the husband.

 

You talk a lot in you reply about swinging, while I am happy for others to pursue that lifestyle it is not what we want, well at least it is not what we have wanted in the past. We have swinging friends and listening to their stories is very erotic but to participate is not something I want. Whether my wife is questioning that now is what I am worried about. If she wants to head down that path she will be doing it alone.

 

As this is a sexual and relationship boundary issue and since it is your husband that is dropping all this little hints and innuendos, it is his responsibility to bring it out into the open and onto the table.

 

Then you have the responsibility to respond to that openly and honestly with your own interests and desires and parameters.

My own interests and desires revolve around my wife and no-one else. If she wishes to explore with others then I cannot stand by and participate or watch that.

 

Your post was very informative but I would hope my wife hasn't all of a sudden decided she wants to be a swinger.

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TiredFamilyGuy

Sexual relations aren't just sexual : they way we are built means our emotions tend to follow them ... or in the case of your spouse, precede them.

 

If I understand correctly, effectively she's saying (persistently hinting) "Let's get another dude into my bed - you OK with that? We can have a gal first if you like - then I get the dude.". To that, I would say "Cheerio my dear, have a lovely life, but that is not the life I want for myself".

 

Couples who find each other through the "scene" may be fine with this. For the rest of us, it is more likely that the initial marriage expectations of exclusivity apply on one side or the other. So when one wants to "Stray under licence" and the other does not, they break up.

 

I think you have to decide if you want to ditch the swinging friends too. Come on - you know they are inviting you in by talking about this, yes?

 

If you are clear in your mind, OP, then express yourself with crystal clarity to your spouse that she is free to do as she wishes - without you. BTW, you might want to be certain that she has not already cheated but is trying to get your buy in to de-guilt and legitimise her own actions. Just saying.

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twosadthings

I had no trouble decerning your gender because you were so determined to hide it.

 

The genie has escaped your wife's bottle to forever to be implanted in your memory. My suggestion is that the next time it is brought out for discussion you shoot down the idea unequivicaly and make sure she understands the consequences to your relationship if she continues to bring it up or worse acts upon it.

 

The ball is in your court, send it back to her high and hard for both your sakes.

 

Twosadthings

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Hi OP :-)

 

I have that fantasy too! And many other wierd and wonderful ones beside. As does my partner. And we regularly share them in the sense of discussion and foreplay. We find it hot and intimate to do so. And we do have favourites that we wheel out more often than others.

 

And post coitus we often 'debrief' and lay any questions and insecurities on the table; especially if something new has come up. We delve into what may have inspired it, where it came from, what specifically about it turns he or I on, etc. And really importantly, if anything about it made the other uncomfortable and if so, why. This informs how we interact with that fantasy in the future; as well as helps us understand and learn more about each other all the time.

 

Part of the discussion is also whether or not the fantasy is something that is fantasy only, or actually something we might want to actually explore (again discussing rationale, insecurities, etc). Something only gets put on the future maybe shelf if both parties agree; either has the power of absolute veto.

 

There are very few things on the future maybe shelf because we invariably find that fantasy serves its best purpose when it is just that... fantasy. (As an aside, in my youth I once participated in a FFM threesome; the fantasy was far more sexy than the reality for me. Don't think I'll ever go there again!)

 

As this point you don't know whether or not this is just a strong recurring fantasy for your W or something she wants to take into RL; and she doesn't know it makes you uncomfortable. You need to talk about it together. And don't let her weasel her way out of telling you how she really feels about it; and you make sure she knows how, and why, you feel about it being a hard boundary for you. If you're as open and caring a couple as you sound from your post, I think you'll find she understands.

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be vewy vewy quiet

As this point you don't know whether or not this is just a strong recurring fantasy for your W or something she wants to take into RL; and she doesn't know it makes you uncomfortable. You need to talk about it together. And don't let her weasel her way out of telling you how she really feels about it; and you make sure she knows how, and why, you feel about it being a hard boundary for you. If you're as open and caring a couple as you sound from your post, I think you'll find she understands.

 

Thank you for understanding and the good advice. I have endeavored to discuss this but it has been deflected as I have explained, I guess I'll just have to try harder.

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Ok so you are the husband. In that case everywhere I said "he" replace with "she". Otherwise it doesn't change a word I said.

 

This is a two ton elephant in the room and it is going to have to be addressed.

 

You hav made it clear to us that you do not wish to pursue any kind or 3rd party interaction in your marriage, there for you need to Velcro on your balls and state that clearly in no uncertain terms. It's fine if you want to indulge in mental orgies and gang bangs in your fantasy world but you absolutely must make it clear that the dividing line stops cold in its tracks in real life.

 

....I'll address more in other posts.

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Hi OP :-)

 

I have that fantasy too! And many other wierd and wonderful ones beside. As does my partner. And we regularly share them in the sense of discussion and foreplay. We find it hot and intimate to do so. And we do have favourites that we wheel out more often than others.

 

And post coitus we often 'debrief' and lay any questions and insecurities on the table; especially if something new has come up. We delve into what may have inspired it, where it came from, what specifically about it turns he or I on, etc. And really importantly, if anything about it made the other uncomfortable and if so, why. This informs how we interact with that fantasy in the future; as well as helps us understand and learn more about each other all the time.

 

Part of the discussion is also whether or not the fantasy is something that is fantasy only, or actually something we might want to actually explore (again discussing rationale, insecurities, etc). Something only gets put on the future maybe shelf if both parties agree; either has the power of absolute veto.

 

There are very few things on the future maybe shelf because we invariably find that fantasy serves its best purpose when it is just that... fantasy. (As an aside, in my youth I once participated in a FFM threesome; the fantasy was far more sexy than the reality for me. Don't think I'll ever go there again!)

 

As this point you don't know whether or not this is just a strong recurring fantasy for your W or something she wants to take into RL; and she doesn't know it makes you uncomfortable. You need to talk about it together. And don't let her weasel her way out of telling you how she really feels about it; and you make sure she knows how, and why, you feel about it being a hard boundary for you. If you're as open and caring a couple as you sound from your post, I think you'll find she understands.

 

This is a very good post and I agree with every word. Please read it again and again untill you fully understand what is being said.

 

Both you and your wife must lay out what it is you are wanting and where each of you is wanting to go and where each of your hard boundaries are.

 

Both of you must feel safe and you must discuss this in a judgementfree manner.

 

If she is wanting to invite others into your bedroom in real life, you have every right to decline that, but you must not judge her or punish her or look down on her for wanting that or especially for saying it. You need to support her honesty and communication even if you decline the action.

 

If she does want to entertain others but you don't, you must maintain that boundary but also find a way to indulge her desires without compromising your values, morals and boundaries. This may include things like watching group porn or using toys etc in some of your lovemaking or other things of that nature.

 

Bottom line here is you need to find a fine balance between being a good sport and being game to please her and not judge her and not make her feel slutty and bad vs not compromising your own values and interests.

 

It's not always easy and it doesn't happen in a vacuum. It will take some nonjudgemental open communication, accommodation and solid boundaries.

 

When people say healthy relationships take "work", this is the 'work' they are referring to LOL

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Your post was very informative but I would hope my wife hasn't all of a sudden decided she wants to be a swinger.

 

Read what I have to say here very closely. This is going to be one of those watershed moments that you will look back on when you are on your deathbed and look at all the crossroads and paths that you took throughout your life.

 

As a very experienced swinger, I believe that your wife DOES have some inclinations towards wanting to open your marriage to other people to one degree or another.

 

Women are typically not as assertive or forthcoming about their sexual desires and interests as men so I think what she has been saying so far is the writing on the wall and probably as clear as she is going to get.

 

As a woman and wife, she is looking to you to set the course and set the parameters and limits of your sexual dynamics as a couple.

 

For this you must not waiver and you must not fail. You must set with clear certainty the boundaries of your sexuality and of your marriage. And once set, she will test those boundaries and determine your resolve as well as your strength to enforce it. She's not just going to take you at your word just because you said it.

 

Now this is very important - a part of her will be disappointed that she can't have all the cocks and all the young studs she wants, just like a little kid is disappointed she can't have all the cake and ice cream and candy she wants.

 

BUT she is also wanting you to set the standards and lay down the law and she will respect for doing so. She will respect you if you take a stand on your marriage and enforce it and are consistent in maintaining your standards.

 

If you waiver or are inconsistent or allow her to overstep boundaries without repercussions, she will lose that respect.

 

 

Now here's the punchline - women's desire and women's faithfulness are extremely closely tied to their respect for their man. If they respect their man they will desire them and be faithful to them even if they piss them off or make decisions they don't like.

 

If they don't respect their man, they don't have any qualms about going out to the parking lot for a quick hummer or stopping at a motel room after work even if their partners are "nice" and accomidating. If she sees you waiver or be wishy washy on the boundaries, she will use that as a loophole to slip into the cleaning closet at work with that tall beefy guy in accounting.

 

You have already been kind of wishy washy and already been letting her side-skirt some of these issues so you are already a little bit behind the 8-ball at the moment.

 

Now is the time to address this all head on without ambiguity.

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Read what I have to say here very closely. This is going to be one of those watershed moments that you will look back on when you are on your deathbed and look at all the crossroads and paths that you took throughout your life.

 

As a very experienced swinger, I believe that your wife DOES have some inclinations towards wanting to open your marriage to other people to one degree or another.

 

Women are typically not as assertive or forthcoming about their sexual desires and interests as men so I think what she has been saying so far is the writing on the wall and probably as clear as she is going to get.

 

As a woman and wife, she is looking to you to set the course and set the parameters and limits of your sexual dynamics as a couple.

 

For this you must not waiver and you must not fail. You must set with clear certainty the boundaries of your sexuality and of your marriage. And once set, she will test those boundaries and determine your resolve as well as your strength to enforce it. She's not just going to take you at your word just because you said it.

 

Now this is very important - a part of her will be disappointed that she can't have all the cocks and all the young studs she wants, just like a little kid is disappointed she can't have all the cake and ice cream and candy she wants.

 

BUT she is also wanting you to set the standards and lay down the law and she will respect for doing so. She will respect you if you take a stand on your marriage and enforce it and are consistent in maintaining your standards.

 

If you waiver or are inconsistent or allow her to overstep boundaries without repercussions, she will lose that respect.

 

 

Now here's the punchline - women's desire and women's faithfulness are extremely closely tied to their respect for their man. If they respect their man they will desire them and be faithful to them even if they piss them off or make decisions they don't like.

 

If they don't respect their man, they don't have any qualms about going out to the parking lot for a quick hummer or stopping at a motel room after work even if their partners are "nice" and accomidating. If she sees you waiver or be wishy washy on the boundaries, she will use that as a loophole to slip into the cleaning closet at work with that tall beefy guy in accounting.

 

You have already been kind of wishy washy and already been letting her side-skirt some of these issues so you are already a little bit behind the 8-ball at the moment.

 

Now is the time to address this all head on without ambiguity.

 

Many things that Oldshirt is writing about are spot-on.

But he's talking about a kind of woman who's like a spoiled child. Playing mind games and tsting the waters. Unfortunately there are LOTS of women like this. And trust me as I say that these kind of women are not marriage material. Life is a sort of game for them. Marriage is a game. And it's the kind of game where the man. sooner or later will loose.

 

If your wife is such a woman, get ready. Sooner or later, regardless of how manly you are, you will fail one of her tests. And you loose the game.

 

The only safe way: find a woman who knows what she wants and where she's heading. Either she likes what she has or she doesn't and she can move out.

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Many things that Oldshirt is writing about are spot-on.

I will also agree that Oldshirt is spot on.

 

However, I think what Karnak wrote is a crock-o-dh*t...

Marriage is a game. And it's the kind of game where the man. sooner or later will loose.

Marriage is NOT a game - especially for those like the OP who have been married a dozen+ years.

 

Marriage is about growing and building a life together through one's personal changes. EVERYBODY in life changes; their desires, needs, wants, beliefs, etc. The strongest marriages are those where the parties involved are able to share their changes without retribution.

 

OP, I was like Oldshirt in having lived in an open marriage and I was very much like your wife in having those fantasies but, in my case, the marriage did not survive.

 

My husband and I started like you did: Sharing fantasies and escalating the activities to the extent of threesomes, foursomes, and one particular orgiastic weekend that involved 30+ people having sex. This is not why my marriage ended, but because my husband starting having sex with men without disclosing that information to me.

 

But I can attest to much of what Oldshirt is saying. In some cases, inviting others to the marital bed CAN be enticing and exciting and with full disclosure of feelings involved, a satisfactory exploration of one's sexuality.

 

However, both you and your wife are just beginning to play with these fantasies and what many don't take into account are those aspects of the fantasies that cannot be anticipated that invariably cause the troubles. The fantasy will escalate in her mind - and possibly yours - if you do not discuss ALL ASPECTS of the fantasy. How will you find a potential third? A friend or a strangers? Who is allowed to do what to whom? Will there be a "safe" word if someone is uncomfortable with how things are progressing a complete and total STOP can be enlisted with no retribution?

 

Then there are other things that will happen that can never be anticipated; those images that occur that can never be erased, those smells of new and different bodily fluids that will fill the nose, and an odd clumsy uncomfortableness that can't be diminished.

 

I have known a lot of people who swing and who swing comfortably and successfully in their marriages. After my divorce, I continued to push the envelope of trying to experience the next heightened sense in my sexuality and that is another aspect of chasing fantasies that is rarely discussed.

 

Read this:

 

99% OF THE TIME, THE FANTASY IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN THE REALITY.

 

What your wife is playing with in her mind is something that can probably never be achieved. But she may not believe that until you two try it and it fails. Hopefully you can two can try it in such a way as to not jeopardize the relationship. Be there for her emotionally and don't let jealousy get the best of the situation. She may be more hurt by your reactions than she lets on.

 

And - as always - we are here for you to continue the discussion.

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Many things that Oldshirt is writing about are spot-on.

But he's talking about a kind of woman who's like a spoiled child. Playing mind games and tsting the waters. Unfortunately there are LOTS of women like this. And trust me as I say that these kind of women are not marriage material. Life is a sort of game for them. Marriage is a game. And it's the kind of game where the man. sooner or later will loose.

 

If your wife is such a woman, get ready. Sooner or later, regardless of how manly you are, you will fail one of her tests. And you loose the game.

 

The only safe way: find a woman who knows what she wants and where she's heading. Either she likes what she has or she doesn't and she can move out.

 

I'm taking about the kind of women that have brains and hearts and lungs and ovaries and two eyes, two ears etc etc.

 

What I said applies universally to everyone, men and women. I am not implying the OPs wife is underhanded or not a normal decent person. The issue is people in general will use whatever loophole and excuse they can to justify getting what they want.

 

In most marriages complete exclusivity is both expressed and implied. In this particular case that door to an open marriage has been cracked open and the OP has not closed the door to other people entering their bedroom. They have both danced and skirted around the boundaries and left it as a gray area.

 

There can be no gray areas in either an open or a closed marriage. The limits and boundaries must be expressed and understood.

 

Without expressed boundaries she could very easily find a way to justify why it would be ok to slip off to a room with some tall, handsome, rich guy with the deep blue eyes that makes her Jay-Jay tingle.

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I will also agree that Oldshirt is spot on.

 

However, I think what Karnak wrote is a crock-o-dh*t...

 

Marriage is NOT a game - especially for those like the OP who have been married a dozen+ years.

 

Marriage is about growing and building a life together through one's personal changes. EVERYBODY in life changes; their desires, needs, wants, beliefs, etc. The strongest marriages are those where the parties involved are able to share their changes without retribution.

 

OP, I was like Oldshirt in having lived in an open marriage and I was very much like your wife in having those fantasies but, in my case, the marriage did not survive.

 

My husband and I started like you did: Sharing fantasies and escalating the activities to the extent of threesomes, foursomes, and one particular orgiastic weekend that involved 30+ people having sex. This is not why my marriage ended, but because my husband starting having sex with men without disclosing that information to me.

 

But I can attest to much of what Oldshirt is saying. In some cases, inviting others to the marital bed CAN be enticing and exciting and with full disclosure of feelings involved, a satisfactory exploration of one's sexuality.

 

However, both you and your wife are just beginning to play with these fantasies and what many don't take into account are those aspects of the fantasies that cannot be anticipated that invariably cause the troubles. The fantasy will escalate in her mind - and possibly yours - if you do not discuss ALL ASPECTS of the fantasy. How will you find a potential third? A friend or a strangers? Who is allowed to do what to whom? Will there be a "safe" word if someone is uncomfortable with how things are progressing a complete and total STOP can be enlisted with no retribution?

 

Then there are other things that will happen that can never be anticipated; those images that occur that can never be erased, those smells of new and different bodily fluids that will fill the nose, and an odd clumsy uncomfortableness that can't be diminished.

 

I have known a lot of people who swing and who swing comfortably and successfully in their marriages. After my divorce, I continued to push the envelope of trying to experience the next heightened sense in my sexuality and that is another aspect of chasing fantasies that is rarely discussed.

 

Read this:

 

99% OF THE TIME, THE FANTASY IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN THE REALITY.

 

What your wife is playing with in her mind is something that can probably never be achieved. But she may not believe that until you two try it and it fails. Hopefully you can two can try it in such a way as to not jeopardize the relationship. Be there for her emotionally and don't let jealousy get the best of the situation. She may be more hurt by your reactions than she lets on.

 

And - as always - we are here for you to continue the discussion.

 

Don't distort my statements, please.

I was stating that, for certain women (and men, obviously) marriage is viewed as a game.

As you've probably noticed, english is not my native language. So it's only natural that I can be misunderstood. In cases such as these it's better to ask for clarification, instead of assuming things.

You state that marriage is not a game. Well, I've known at least 4 women (2 in their 30's and 2 in their 20's) who clearly stated that they viewed marriage as a sort of strategy game. Brrrrr

Thanks

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be vewy vewy quiet

Thanks all for your input, especially oldshirt and CarrieT.

 

It seems that it's pretty much decided that my wife wants to push these fantasies into the real world, are you sure that they cannot be just fantasies despite the ongoing mentions of them?

 

There is so much talk about setting boundaries, swinging and 'you wont know until you try'... I haven't even got my head around her actually wanting this to be more than a fantasy. I'm not sure whether I am angry at her or aroused by it. It was certainly arousing as a fantasy but now that it's becoming more real...

 

I initially was very against the idea of swinging but after this thread pretty much confirming that my wife does indeed want others I have thought long and hard about it. The idea of sex with other people is not so much the issue, in fact it is kind of exciting to think about it, but I don't think I could watch my wife with another man, maybe another woman, but not another man. But I don't think I could wave her goodbye and just hear the stories when she gets home either. If we don't do it together then it can't be done, but together I am not sure I can watch... this is a very difficult decision.

 

I will sit her down tonight and lay my cards on the table and ask her to do the same with no judgements. If she does want to try this it's going to take a lot of talk and reassurance going forward before we get to the actual reality.

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Thanks all for your input, especially oldshirt and CarrieT.

 

It seems that it's pretty much decided that my wife wants to push these fantasies into the real world, are you sure that they cannot be just fantasies despite the ongoing mentions of them?

 

There is so much talk about setting boundaries, swinging and 'you wont know until you try'... I haven't even got my head around her actually wanting this to be more than a fantasy. I'm not sure whether I am angry at her or aroused by it. It was certainly arousing as a fantasy but now that it's becoming more real...

 

I initially was very against the idea of swinging but after this thread pretty much confirming that my wife does indeed want others I have thought long and hard about it. The idea of sex with other people is not so much the issue, in fact it is kind of exciting to think about it, but I don't think I could watch my wife with another man, maybe another woman, but not another man. But I don't think I could wave her goodbye and just hear the stories when she gets home either. If we don't do it together then it can't be done, but together I am not sure I can watch... this is a very difficult decision.

 

I will sit her down tonight and lay my cards on the table and ask her to do the same with no judgements. If she does want to try this it's going to take a lot of talk and reassurance going forward before we get to the actual reality.

 

For us, swinging was never so much about "sex with other people" per se, but rather about bringing an extra level of excitement and stimulation into our own sexual dynamics as a couple.

 

In other words it's that that we went off and had sex with other people and then said, "oh by the way I screwed this guy at work today. Hope that's ok," while having dinner.

 

Rather it was our sexual experience as a couple that we enjoyed together as a couple, there just happened to be some extra hands and mouths etc providing some extra stimulation and pleasure. It was still our experience as a couple that brought more excitement and pleasure into our marital bed. It is something we do together. It's not something that is subdividing our attentions away from each other.

 

In regards to seeing your partner with someone else, that's kind of a funny an tricky thing. If I came home and caught her in the act of cheating, I'd lose my mind and probably tear everyone to shreds. But when it's something that is consensual and you go through the whole process together as a couple, it is fine. It can be quite exciting and pleasurable in fact. And she enjoys seeing me with others as well.

 

That is probably something that you have to experience it before you can begin to understand it.

 

The key is to take tiny incremental baby steps and only move forward if things are going ok but to stop and regroup if things start feeling uncomfortable.

 

You two have already taken some steps and you are starting to feel squeamish so now is a stopping point and a time to regroup and discuss it and see where you go from here.

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I'm in a somewhat similar boat to you, OP. Married for 12 yrs, 3 kids. Active and mutually enjoyable sex life with some light kink. Recently, I've gotten into SPH and tease-n-denial with my wife. Imaginary cuckholding as well. During these sessions, I whisper cuckholding fantasies into my wife's ear, about her being 'taken' by a well-hung man (which could literally be anyone other than myself, lol). These naughty scenarios really turned on my wife, and I mean how (I should mention that we were both virgins when we met).

Because of my priming the pump, my wife has confessed that she harbors these fantasies now as well. I admit it turns me on but we both agree that it is something we will never actualize because of the dangerous and unpredictable nature of jealousy.

You must remember that these are FANTASIES. Its fun to think of my wife being satisfied by some really well-hung guy while I watch, but in reality, its only fun when I'm aroused. Once I'm sexually satisfied in the encounter, I quickly realize how awful something like that would make me feel in real life.My wife also realizes this too, and something like this is irrecoverable. Even if you do it once "just to try it" and it turns out terribly and you both vow to never do it again, you can't go back to the relationship you had before hand.

I sense that you realize this too, and maybe you feel like you are being badgered into doing it.

Please don't go through with it just to please her unless you are 100% committed to any possible outcome. And I sense you aren't.

I feel if you were a woman complaining about how your husband wants to bring in another woman into the marital bed you'd get a far far different set of responses.

I do agree with the responses that suggest you be non-judgmental when she brings up a fantasy; make her feel safe she can confide anything to you. But that doesn't mean that you have to commit to something that clearly makes you uncomfortable. Instead you can compromise (with 'fantasy cuckholding', etc).

Good luck.

Edited by radman
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You must remember that these are FANTASIES. Its fun to think of my wife being satisfied by some really well-hung guy while I watch, but in reality, its only fun when I'm aroused. Once I'm sexually satisfied in the encounter, I quickly realize how awful something like that would make me feel in real life.

 

.

 

This brings up a good point too. Everyone has fantasies and thoughts and images in their mind when they are in an aroused and stimulated state. Usually once the tank is drained and they come back down to baseline it doesn't sound like a good idea anymore.

 

It's when you are pumping gas at Quick Trip and it still sounds like a fun thing to try is when you need to start having discussions on if you should try to bridge the gap between fantasy and reality.

 

If your wife is making these comments and ideas while she is riding you like a stolen horse, it's just sex talk and probably nothing more than fantasy.

 

If she's talking about after you have both orgasmed and are satisfied or she she is bringing up on the ride home after grocery shopping, then it's time to start having some discussions.

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It's when you are pumping gas at Quick Trip and it still sounds like a fun thing to try is when you need to start having discussions on if you should try to bridge the gap between fantasy and reality.

 

If your wife is making these comments and ideas while she is riding you like a stolen horse, it's just sex talk and probably nothing more than fantasy.

 

If she's talking about after you have both orgasmed and are satisfied or she she is bringing up on the ride home after grocery shopping, then it's time to start having some discussions.

 

Riding you like a stolen horse? You win the Internet today my friend.

 

And that's my point exactly. It's fun for my wife to talk dirty about getting shafted by a big dick while playing with a dildo in front of me; once we are done though she makes it crystal-f*cking clear that she has zero interest in pursuing this in reality.

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veritas lux mea

I know for a fact that swinging friends can be the cause of a change of heart if there is one. Because open marriages/swinging are not the norm there is often a desire among some people who participate to proselytize their lifestyle. They can often pain a very tempting picture of it. And I am not saying this is wrong or anything but your wife may be envious a little bit of that. She may not actually want to jump right in but a part of her even if she doesn't know it may be headed that way. Or, these could be just fantasies only. But I think you should get to the bottom of this and not let her deflect.

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You have received excellent advice here but the following is something to consider.

 

 

The following post is by compulsivedancer but for some reason there was no "quote" button on the post.

 

 

 

 

H and I were discussing an open relationship last summer. I thought we were seriously discussing it (it had been brought up many times over the years, but this time it was a little different), but I guess H was thinking of the whole thing as a thought experiment. He says - I'm still not sure whether this would have been different if he had had a specific girl in mind. We had actually brainstormed possible partners, etc. OM came up as an option, and H agreed that he would be a good option.

 

I mentioned the open relationship idea to OM casually in conversation. I honestly was not making an offer or expecting anything at all. It was just a passing part of the conversation. We often talked about sexual things. I have always been very open about this stuff. In general, not just with him. (I realize now that my relationship with OM at the time was already heading into the danger zone, but I didn't recognize the warning signs. H says that I was very very naive and OM saw that and took advantage of it.)

 

A few days later, OM asked me to consider him if we ever decided to do the open relationship. I immediately told my husband and we began discussing it. In retrospect, it was clear from day 1 that H was leery of the whole thing, but I was very interested and pressured him into the idea. In the meantime, he discussed it twice with OM, and OM and I talked about it frequently.

 

H thought about it for a couple of months. In the meantime, I often visited OM's house to hang out, as we were friends. H trusted me completely, and thought that OM would also put on the brakes if anything started to happen.

 

Instead, OM suggested that we get comfortable with each other, in anticipation of my husband's inevitable decision. I did not believe that my husband would say yes any time soon, but OM was sure that the decision would be made any day now. It started with him putting his arm around me while we watched TV.

 

By the time H finally said no, I was already pretty into the whole thing. Even though I don't think we'd kissed yet, in H's mind we were already cheating at this point. OM said he didn't think we were, but I pretty much realized we were.

 

OM's girlfriend (of 7 years or so) had said yes to the open relationship (so I thought - I later found out this was a lie).

 

By then I pretty much had decided that since H would already consider it cheating, I might as well get something out of it. And I was already getting attached to OM. Obviously, I was in a very selfish place and was only thinking about how this would affect me. I was talking to OM daily through text and seeing him a couple times a week. We progressed until eventually we began sleeping together.

 

All in all, the affair lasted 6 months, though we didn't actually sleep together until the last two months. But we did a lot of other things (including regular sexting) leading up to those last two months.

 

Eventually H got suspicious and looked through my e-mail account. He found a transcript of some texts I had saved and confronted us both. That's the last time I saw OM.

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