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Self-Esteem, anger management and marriage


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I came here to sign up having forgotten I actually joined a few years back. I have a fairly contentious marriage that's been going four years now. I have a tendency to hold things in and let them fester until I finally blow up. After last night, when myself and my wife had our worst argument ever, I began to realise part of the problem was me.

 

Part of the reason I'm here is, yes, to find solutions, to talk about such things. But it's also so I can write things out for my own benefit. I know there's a line of thought that one should, say, write diary entries to oneself in order to get an outside perspective on things. But it feels more...real, somehow, to write about events here and work them out in this forum, albeit anonymously. So my apologies if the following bores the pants off you, it's for my own benefit as much as anything else.

 

I've written here and in other places about my concern that my wife has anger issues. This may be partly cultural, her being from South-East Asia and me from the UK. Women from that part of the world just seem, somehow, to be angry. Forget all that exotic flower of the East bull****: it's beyond not true.

 

Last night my wife came home to find me cooking. She criticised pretty much everything I was doing, that I was doing it wrong. I'd gone shopping, bought food, made it by hand, and so forth (I work from home so it's easy enough for me to do so). She made a series of what struck me as strident complaints about, for instance, a missing kitchen timer (soon found). When will I get better? When will I stop being forgetful? Or at least that's how I remember it in my head.

 

I asked her not to be rude to me - not to be mean. I was making her dinner. She didn't have to do anything. Just come home from work, sit down, eat. She kept insisting my feelings weren't hurt. That I was fine, too sensitive, so forth.

 

I told her, let's stop arguing. It's over. There's no point continuing. She told me that wasn't up to me: that I didn't have the right to tell her what to do, what to think, that she wasn't a child.

 

Often, when we argue, she brings up divorce. We should just get divorced, she says, because we simply don't get along. What's the point if we just keep arguing? This maddens me, because it's what I call 'the nuclear option': just hit the divorce button and override any possibility of negotiation or discussion or meaningful dialogue.

 

Now, there's a school of thought that the best thing to do in a case like this is walk away. Just get your jacket and go until you cool down. I can't do this, because it upsets her, and the last time we had a bad argument and I threatened to go for a walk, she took hold of my brand-new, necessary-for-work Macbook and held it in her hands, ready to smash it on the floor if I went anywhere. Her father used to walk out on her family on a regular basis, and her ex-husband used to walk out on her too during their short-lived marriage. I wasn't going to do the same.

 

Something snapped in me.

 

I didn't hit her. But what I did do wasn't much better. She's much smaller than me - I'm maybe five foot ten, she's barely scraping five foot. I grabbed her by the arm and dragged her through to the living room and threw - and I mean threw - her onto the couch. I then pinned her down and shouted in her face that I couldn't take any more the way she insulted me, the way she put me down, dismissed my feelings. I completely and utterly lost control of myself.

 

Needless to say, I'm ashamed of myself and of my behaviour. However she might have talked to me, I had no excuse for this. I saw a side of myself I didn't recognise. To my further shame, I will admit on one or two occasions I have also lost my temper. But it was never as bad as this. I frightened her quite badly I think.

 

I'm going to mention the following not to suggest my behaviour is acceptable, because it's not. But it may serve to give some perspective. She has, on occasion, kicked and punched me. One time she left me in the street while we were in her home country and stormed off while on the way to a movie. I spent the next three hours wandering the streets and subway system to try and find her. I found her at home. She launched herself at me, hitting me about the head and shoulders with a bag. She had, apparently, decided I must have gone to see the movie and not bothered with her. I would never have done this, and she's since admitted she would sometimes expect me to behave in the way her ex did - in other words, behave like I could care less about her.

 

This, and other incidents, led me to think maybe I was in some kind of an abusive relationship. I felt put down a lot. But the real reason I'm here isn't because of that: it's because I've had cause to take a serious look at myself in a way I never have, prompted by the way I acted last night.

 

What clicked with me was something my wife said: that her brother was frequently angry at people for no rational reason, because he suffers from, and has been treated for, low self-esteem.

 

I had never before made the link between low self-esteem and being angry. I now suspect I've been suppressing a lot of stuff - mostly family stuff. Stuff that made me angry pretty much throughout my twenties, and which I thought I'd gotten past.

 

I did some online tests and I seemed to score pretty strongly for low self-esteem. That was kind of a clincher. I recognised things in myself from the questions asked by the tests. I actually consider myself fairly successful in what I do: I'm skilled, my work gets plaudits. And yet there's a part of me that often when I walk into a room immediately assumes everyone there thinks I look like an idiot, or I talk like an idiot, and I feel like there's something wrong with the way I speak or the things I say. I don't respond at all well to criticism. ESPECIALLY from my wife.

 

Looking back at the things she said to me that triggered all this off, I wonder if she was genuinely being nagging. Had I misconstrued what she said? Was I in fact being far too sensitive to what she was saying to me? Was my ego too fragile, so that every remark she made to me seemed to wound me? Is that the reason I let my temper spiral out of control?

 

I love her very much, despite the degree and frequency of our arguments, and despite the fact our sex life, what there was of it, has dropped down to very nearly zero. There are admittedly times when I'm not sure WHY I love her. I find it impossible to imagine my life without her. When I think of divorce, I think of the trauma of having to explain it to my parents and the feeling of failure. Also, the sense of failure from becoming divorced; and the thought people would look down on me for that, which is ridiculous because I know so many divorced people amongst my friends.

 

There's a case for suggesting this might be down to the belief I couldn't meet anyone else and so I hold on to her. In my case, it actually used to be more frequently me who ended a relationship if there was a problem. But with my wife, I've never held so desperately onto a relationship for so very long, and with such fear of it ending, however bad things might sometimes get. Even though I previously was the one to end bad relationships, there were other relationships where I would cling on to them lost past their sell-by date, again, I suspect, because of feelings of failure.

 

I sometimes have severe self-doubt brought on by my physical appearance. I've suffered eczema since I was a baby, and it makes me feel extremely self-conscious about how I look, regardless of whether my skin is good or not.

 

My wife said I should tape our conversation so people could hear how I sounded. I got my laptop and switched on the recorder and taped more than an hour of us talking. It was like having another person in the room. We talked more calmly and she told me the story about her brother. Like I say, that's when certain things clicked, and some of the things I'd been thinking in my head suddenly appeared somewhat less than rational. And less so, with each passing hour.

 

I've done two things today. The first was to book an appointment with my doctor on Friday, so I can ask whether it's possible to get referrals to counsellors or people who deal in such issues. I don't make a lot of money, so going private really isn't an option, but going via my GP here in the UK might mean a wait of months. We'll see.

 

The other thing was buy a book on dealing with Self-Esteem that gets very high ratings on Amazon. I'm going to start reading it over my lunch. In the meantime, I just want to state for the record that despite feeling like a total prick, I will try and write here more on what happens and what conclusions I draw. Whether or not this might help anyone else reading this I have no idea, but I'll bet there's someone else out there wondering too if they really know who they are.

Edited by fenix_3
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Your wife certainly needs therapy. She has severe anger and control issues. I strongly suspect that her unresolved issues are the reason her first marriage ended.

 

While I agree that you were wrong for throwing your wife in a couch and screaming at her, I have some sympathy for the fact that you were pushed to the edge by her verbal abuse. I had an ex who screamed in my face when I tried to walk away from him and this went on for more than a year. It wasn't until I fought back physically that he stopped being a bully.

 

I have anger difficulties due to being raised in an abusive home and being in two abusive relationships. My therapist and I are working on how my past has affected my present. I allow my husband to walk away if our arguments are becoming too heated. My husband always makes sure that he says he loves me and he will return soon to have a calm discussion. He also likes to give hugs and kisses when I am getting angry. It redirects my anger and distracts me from whatever I am not happy about.

 

Your low-self esteem is the reason you are tolerating abuse from your wife. Let your wife know that unless she seeks help for her anger problems, you cannot stay in the marriage. Ask for a trial separation until she has completed at least a month of anger management. Your wife needs to know that you will not tolerate being spoken to like a dumb child. Stand up for yourself! Your wife needs consequences for her behavior.

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Thanks for your comment Nyla. It's one thing to think someone needs anger management therapy, it's another to tell them without the possibility they might get VERY UPSET at the suggestion. If anyone has a strategy for dealing with that, I'd be glad to hear it.

 

Here's an incident from a few minutes ago thats pretty typical of our domestic squabbles, while i was sitting at home working and she was out getting some shopping after her work.

 

I called her to check we were having chicken for dinner, having forgotten to take it out of the freezer to defrost. She confirmed this, and I said I'd defrost some, although it was by now just a couple of hours to dinner.

 

I took the frozen chicken pieces out of the freezer and put them in the microwave to defrost them just slightly. My thinking was it would give the defrost a 'head start' - particularly because I should have taken them out earlier. Since there were only a couple of hours to dinner, I thought it was better to use the mw first, just for a minute or two, since sometimes if I defrost it a little prior to cooking it slightly 'cooks' the chicken, making it rubbery. I don't know if this is right or wrong, it's just an idea that occurred to me.

 

My wife texted ten minutes later to ask if I'd taken the chicken out yet. If not, she'd get some fish from Morrisons. I had taken it out. Had it defrosted much? Yes, I said, with the help of the mw.

 

She got angry. It was stupid, apparently. I said it just seemed like a good idea. I explained my reasoning.

 

This got her increasingly upset. I was justifying/defending my actions, she said, which only made her more angry.

 

Given we'd just had a huge argument a few days before I was going out of my way to try and be reasonable and calm. I said fine, if she wanted it done her way. I sensed she was angry because she could have got fish, and she couldn't do that now because the chicken was already part defrosted.

 

Often. she complains I 'defend' myself. What I should do, she says, is agree not to do the things she tells me not to.

 

This is what she texted me afterwards: "u just have a way of making me angry. i was already unhappy about the way u did things. the 1st thing u always do is 2 defend urself. it's so lame and pathetic!"

 

TBH, I thought I was being reasonable. I thought I was just explaining how and why I did things. I didn't raise my voice, get upset or anything. I wasn't particularly saying it was the right or wrong way to do it. I was just...explaining. Go figure.

 

How do you deal with something like that? Anyone? If I'm at fault here, I'd like to know. Should I have just shut up and did what I was told?

 

Edit: Ten minutes later she called again to discuss what we were having dinner. She seemed fine and reasonable, apart from a brief mention of what we MIGHT have had for dinner if I didn't defrost that chicken and a long sigh. There's no real shades - sometimes she's angry, ten minutes later she's fine. Sometimes she even apologises for being angry, but it's far from fun regardless when she is.

Edited by fenix_3
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An update.

 

Well, if I ever had any remote doubts my wife has anger and control issues, they were just laid wildly bare. She sells stuff on Ebay. Salvage Hunters was on TV. I made a remark that she was so good at business, maybe she should do something like that. She didn't think there was a comparison.

 

For the next half hour, she bellowed at me for comparing her to the people in Salvage Hunters because what they do is 'gambling'. I remained calm and reasonable. She, however, escalated to rapid-fire shouting and yelling for a solid half hour, telling me she wants a divorce (again) she's so bored with our sex life (again) I've insulted her horribly by making that comparison, that we don't belong together (again), that we always end up arguing (again, although very one-sided arguments, as you can probably tell). I was at fault because I'd insulted her, and I'd constantly defended myself. 'Defending' apparently relating to explaining why I'd said it, why I didn't understand why she was upset, etc.

 

It hit me finally - and it's taken me a long time to get here - that either I figure out some way to get her to take treatment, or at the very least acknowledge what's going on(unlikely).

 

I asked in my last entry if anyone knew a way to get someone with anger and control issues to face up to things. How have people here dealt with such things (assuming there literally is no way except to let them follow through on threats of divorce?)

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fenix, it's time to call it quits. Give her the divorce.

Even if your goal is to keep your marriage intact, this may be your only option. Calling her bluff may cause her to see the connection between word and deed in a way that no amount of appeasement could accomplish. And if she's not bluffing, even more reason to leave. I'm with tbf, I'd have her served...

 

Mr. Lucky

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I'd like to avoid divorce and sort things out, but I'm aware how naive that might sound to some of you. Apart from anything, it's going to be hard summoning up the emotional and mental strength to cope with that if it happened.

 

Here, however, is another concern of mine if that came to pass. In the past, when I've hypothetically discussed the idea with her, and using that word, she immediately turns it around to 'now that you've decided you want to divorce me' in a tone of voice that implies it's all my idea.

 

This concerns me, because I'm worried she might then paint a picture of me as the one getting rid of her, presumably laughing like an evil maniac as I cast her out onto the streets. I'm concerned of it becoming,if you will, a case of my word against hers when it comes to the actual mechanics of divorce.

 

IF, I stress, it came to that. Sad idiot sap that I am, I still love her. I find I literally cannot find a way to say what she wants me to say. The words just won't come out of my mouth. They stall, frozen, in my throat.

 

I have some numbers to call here in the UK tomorrow I got hold of, for charities that deal with relationship verbal and other abuse. I'll see if I get anything out of that.

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Is it worth writing to one another? Addressing some basic fundamentals by letter or email? I was with someone who was extremely challenging and when we couldn't communicate we would do so by email or even instant messenger (msn-ing from different rooms in the house!!

 

Does your area have charities which offer counselling? You could get yourself on the waiting list ASAP. I got an appointment within 2 weeks and it's contribution based so you pay what you can. I think it's important for you to talk to someone irrespective of whether your wife is seeking assistance.

 

I definitely think you two, if you're to stay together, need retraining in effective communication.

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lucy_in_disguise

She does not love you. I think shes hanging on for the same reasons you are- fear of failure, fear of being the bad guy, fear of being alone, fears triggered by low self esteem, not love. This is not a healthy or joyful relationship. Stop being a psusy and get a divorce.

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Often. she complains I 'defend' myself. What I should do, she says, is agree not to do the things she tells me not to.

 

This is what she texted me afterwards: "u just have a way of making me angry. i was already unhappy about the way u did things. the 1st thing u always do is 2 defend urself. it's so lame and pathetic!"

 

This honestly made me feel a little sick to my stomach. Don't defend yourself? What she's saying is that you should just do what she tells you without questioning it, and never stand up for yourself or even just explain your side. As if she'll never be wrong and your opinion doesn't matter. That is really ****ed up and unfair of her.

 

And for the record, defrosting meat in the microwave is kind of gross. I'm with her, there. What I can't understand is why it made her so ****ing angry at you. You know how most people (without anger issues) would have reacted? "No big deal, I'll grab some takeout on the way home." No need to get into a fight over it or text hurtful things like, "You made me angry, I am unhappy, and you're lame and pathetic." I think there is something wrong with your wife. She's really mean to you.

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Fenix,

 

She is mentally, verbally and physically abusing you. She is blaming YOU for her hurting and controlling you. When she does this, she does NOT have respect for you! Do you think she might be cheating? Often women will do this sort of thing to justify their behavior.

 

Your low self-esteem is because the person who is suppose to love you is treating you like an enemy. All she is doing is taking everything out of you. Her thinking of not losing you is to control you, however women who are this insecure will often find other avenues (affairs) to fix their own self-esteem issues.

 

Yes, SHE is the one with low self-esteem, however she will NEVER admit it. Her father issues are now your problem. You have become the emotional punching bag.

 

The best thing you can do when she is like this is to calmly tell her 'I will talk to you when you calm down' and then just walk away. She wants confrontation because it's her way of control. Take that away from her by doing what I suggest. My wife is the same as yours and I realized that I had to not only make clear boundaries with her but that I couldn't let what she says to me to affect my own self-worth.

 

It truly sucks because we are taking the punishment for what other men did in their lives. It's a must that your wife goes to counseling, good chance she will go in there blaming everything on you and when they start talking about her past she just might leave the counseling.

 

Don't let this become a parent-child relationship, don't become her counselor. Demand that from now on that you be treated with respect and write out guidelines for her. Write it in a letter for her and also spell out the consequences she will face if she continues this path.

 

Remember the more you argue with her the more is chipped away from your bond with her. That's the reason for no sex. I don't like to bring this up again but you could also be looking at infelidity on her part. I'm not saying she is but don't rule it out. Don't ask her about it! You need to find out the truth on your own.

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At the moment, I've written to a local charity for men in abusive or controlling relationships. I should hear back from them maybe tomorrow. What they can offer me or say I have no idea, but it's at least something.

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