"Couples our Age Don't Go Out Anymore"

[venusianx13]

My boyfriend is a few months older than I am; we are both 30. This past weekend, while my son was at his dad's, I had wanted to go out dancing with my boyfriend. I ran it by him in the morning, and he seemed cool with it. After dinner, I started discussing what time we should leave and so forth, and my boyfriend confessed that he was too tired (which in and of itself was understandable) but went on to say: "And besides, people our age don't really go out anymore. We stay home with the kids and enjoy cozy nights in." Most of the time, I'm fine with that. No problem. We actually do that with my son quite often. But... we're 30!! I've never heard of 30 being old, or am I misinformed? I got pretty perturbed at him, and said, "Well hey, we aren't married yet, and I'm not old, so I still like to have fun sometimes." And by fun, I don't even mean getting drunk or flirting around- I simply enjoy dancing and having an adventure here and there.

 

Where does he get this idea from?! It isn't a huge problem for me, because he's so wonderful, but this... is just silly. Once we are married, I will be perfectly content to stay in most nights, and as I see (more) children in our future, it will be harder to go out. But for now, the way I see it is: We're still young, and we AREN'T married yet... so what wrong with having fun now before it becomes harder to do so in the future?

[2sure]

Even if you were married, not going on dates at least once a month is like FWB. That share rent. At 30? Dismal.

[venusianx13]

I agree! I cannot say that we don't ever go out... we do dinner here and there, and see friends sometimes, but yeesh... I don't feel old at all! Not too old for a night out dancing. He seemed surprised at me that I made such a deal out of it, like I was looking to go out and do some heavy drinking, which is not true in the least. I hate getting sloshed; those days are behind me.

 

And while I do know we are planning a future together, and I suspect engagement will be happening soon... we aren't married or living together yet. (I refuse to live with someone before engagement). I told him he can't have it both ways - we simply are not married yet, and I reserve the right to go out and have fun before children or other domestic responsibilities come along!

[2sure]

You know, sometimes I get so into my routine and tired, that socializing feels like a burden...until I'm actually out and having a good time. Maybe he forgot. Make him go. I bet he has a great time.

[Els]

He is totally within his rights to not want to go dancing at that particular time.. but his reasoning is ridiculous! "Couples our age don't go out anymore"? What? My 50-year-old parents still go out together. Maybe that's a part of why they're still... together.

 

IMO date nights out are very important to a R - taking a break in the routine and doing something fun together can do wonders to keep the spark alive. This doesn't mean that you need to go out 3-4 times a week including weekdays, but you really shouldn't be staying at home all the time especially if you don't have kids. How often DO you go out? Does he seem reluctant to go out at all, or was it just this one time that he seemed reluctant?

[TheZebra]

He is totally within his rights to not want to go dancing at that particular time.. but his reasoning is ridiculous! "Couples our age don't go out anymore"? What? My 50-year-old parents still go out together. Maybe that's a part of why they're still... together.

 

IMO date nights out are very important to a R - taking a break in the routine and doing something fun together can do wonders to keep the spark alive. This doesn't mean that you need to go out 3-4 times a week including weekdays, but you really shouldn't be staying at home all the time especially if you don't have kids. How often DO you go out? Does he seem reluctant to go out at all, or was it just this one time that he seemed reluctant?

 

I was just about to post the same thing My parents in their 50's still go out all the time. They especially love going to those new "hip" downtown restaurants where all the 20 somethings in town go to, and honestly, I love it since I usually tag along.

 

Frankly, I always get worried when someone says 'at ___ stage in my life I shouldn't be doing ___ anymore'. What?? It's your life, if you want to, I dunno, have long hair at 60, have long hair! If you want to play video games into your 30s, do it! Why should society's expectations define how you have fun?

[jwi71]

Once we are married, I will be perfectly content to stay in most nights, and as I see (more) children in our future, it will be harder to go out. But for now, the way I see it is: We're still young, and we AREN'T married yet... so what wrong with having fun now before it becomes harder to do so in the future?

 

This is what caught my eye.

 

What makes you think that being M will make you perfectly content with that which you are not now? Namely going out and dancing.

 

How does M "fix" that and make staying home ok?

[venusianx13]

Either your boyfriend was just kind of joking with you and you took what he said way too seriously, perhaps due to oversensitivity about your age; or he was in a foreshadowing way, articulating a perception of how he thinks your future life "together" as an engaged/married couple "should" be--staying home cozy with the kids, a family, not out partying and dancing till all hours.

 

A vision which apparently you rejected.

 

Oh well as you said, you're not engaged or married yet and don't even live together, so you can go out and have your fun without him if it's such a big deal to you.

 

 

 

Yes. Why are you making such a big deal out of it?

 

Typically the next phase the woman wants to go out without her man on the so called "Girls Night Out" and when the man says he wants her to stay at home she says "You can't tell me what to do! You can't control me!"

 

That sounds like the two of you may be headed down that road before long unless you can come to a meeting of the minds about your social life that doesn't have you posting threads on the internet to vent simply because he doesn't want to go out one evening and makes an offhand comment about your age.

 

 

This was not isolated. It has been ongoing. We grab dinner here and there, take my son out to do fun stuff such as bowling, to an arcade, etc., but it's been a while since we had an actual "date night." I agree with posters who have stated that date night is important to keep the spark alive. I'd been wanting to go dancing for a couple of months now, and he usually ends up poo-pooing the idea, but this time, he agreed to it, only to say he was too tired later, as well as the comment about "couples our age..." It wasn't so much that I was offended, but it confused me. We're simply NOT OLD. And I DID point out to him (and Zebra mentioned something about video games) that if 30 is too old to go out dancing, then that must mean he's too old to play his dorky video games, too. (Which, by the way, I've never had a problem with).

 

I just needed to vent about him acting like an old fart. Sure, I was disappointed...I'm over it. And in the meantime, he's promised to do something fun with me two weekends from now to make up for it.

[venusianx13]

This is what caught my eye.

 

What makes you think that being M will make you perfectly content with that which you are not now? Namely going out and dancing.

 

How does M "fix" that and make staying home ok?

 

 

Well, it wouldn't make it okay, but I'd be quicker to understand his sentiments about it. The reality is, it would be more difficult to go out once we are married with children, though I'd hope we'd be able to manage to do so once in a while.

Edited February 6, 2013 by venusianx13

[Nyla]

Even if you were married, not going on dates at least once a month is like FWB. That share rent. At 30? Dismal.

 

I agree with this. Your boyfriend is just making an excuse.

 

My parents go to a lot more parties now that they are empty nesters.

 

If my parents can go out in their 60's, why can't a much younger couple?

[Nyla]

Either your boyfriend was just kind of joking with you and you took what he said way too seriously, perhaps due to oversensitivity about your age; or he was in a foreshadowing way, articulating a perception of how he thinks your future life "together" as an engaged/married couple "should" be--staying home cozy with the kids, a family, not out partying and dancing till all hours.

 

A vision which apparently you rejected.

 

Oh well as you said, you're not engaged or married yet and don't even live together, so you can go out and have your fun without him if it's such a big deal to you.

 

 

 

Yes. Why are you making such a big deal out of it?

 

Typically the next phase the woman wants to go out without her man on the so called "Girls Night Out" and when the man says he wants her to stay at home she says "You can't tell me what to do! You can't control me!"

 

That sounds like the two of you may be headed down that road before long unless you can come to a meeting of the minds about your social life that doesn't have you posting threads on the internet to vent simply because he doesn't want to go out one evening and makes an offhand comment about your age.

 

I don't understand the bolded parts. Why are you assuming that just because the OP wants to go out dancing with her boyfriend, it means that she will want to have "Girl's Nights" without him?

 

I don't read over sensitivity about the OP's age at all. She has not mentioned that she was offended by her boyfriend speaking of their age, it was about the belief that 30 is too old for a couple to go out and dance.

 

Maybe she is making a "big deal" about this issue because it is important to her. Perhaps Venusian doesn't want to be stuck in the house all the time; after all, she does have a son and I'm sure that takes a lot of Venusian's free adult time.

 

Going out dancing once in a while is not the same as constant partying all the time. I think that both the OP and her boyfriend need to compromise.

 

Venusian, how long have you been with this man?

[venusianx13]

We've been together about 10 months now. One of our first dates, actually, involved dancing, and we both had a fantastic time. In my younger days, I'd stick around until the club closed at 3am - but I was quite content to leave around 1:30. Aside from this issue, things are pretty great between us. I just can't fathom why he's acting like such an old fart at 30. I was pretty frank with him about it. And as I'd stated earlier, it's not about going out and getting drunk or partying all the time, as those days are truly behind me. Fun, however, is not. Maybe a girls' night once in a while is truly in order. He can survive a night without me.

Edited February 6, 2013 by venusianx13

[jwi71]

Well, it wouldn't make it okay, but I'd be quicker to understand his sentiments about it. The reality is, it would be more difficult to go out once we are married with children, though I'd hope we'd be able to manage to do so once in a while.

 

So M makes not going out ok. Or at least easier to accept.

 

I dunno.

 

M in and of itself changes nothing. It feels different - but in reality its not - this is referred to as the honeymoon phase.

 

I think what I object to is you want to go out and that M, this title, this piece of paper, somehow mitigates or mutes that want or need of yours. I don't think it does. Issues you see now persist INTO M. Become exacerbated over time because of this "M makes it more ok" thinking. It smells like resentment - not now - but is the seeds of.

 

Do not lightly ignore your wants and needs.

[venusianx13]

I understand what you are saying, and thank you.

 

I'm a very creative and spiritual person, and dancing, though it might sound silly, helps to satisfy both of those things for me sometimes. Without little adventures such as this, I tend to end up with cabin fever; I know this about myself.

 

If this is one of our biggest differences, I can live with that. He's very family oriented - he dotes on my son, and on his little niece. He is going to make a fantastic father/step-father... but I don't contest what you've stated about marriage; not in the least. Luckily, while I'm a relatively quiet and thoughtful person who is very, very flexible, I can also be assertive. I have no problem telling him what my wants and needs are. I could care less what movie we watch together or what we make for dinner, quite honestly, whatever makes others happy is what makes me happy. But for my spiritual and creative outlets, I am quite adamant that I need to keep these things going in my life in order to be happy.

Edited February 6, 2013 by venusianx13

[venusianx13]

He's not. He's starting to think like a mature adult with serious plans to commit to a woman, perhaps anticipation of starting a family, buy a house, get a mortgage, life insurance, fast-track his career to get more money to pay for all these things--you know, all of the things that make people with these kinds of responsibilities too busy and too tired and too stressed to spend very much time going out till the wee hours except maybe on a few times a year like a birthday or anniversary.

 

(Oh wait that is an "old fart" isn't it?)

 

And, most likely, he wants assurance that you are also on board with this notion of family life.

 

Maybe he is thinking that he does want to marry you and buy a house with you and have children with you. That means he has to pay for all that stuff. That means he has to work his @ss off. He needs to think about 529 college plans for the children that the two of you are going to have. He needs to think about the minivan he is going to have to buy for you.

 

If you are working right now but start getting pregnant and having a couple of kids with him, maybe like a lot of women you end up staying home to raise the kids for a few years. So he has to work extra hard to make up for the lost income.

 

Yeah just like an old fart. A stick in the mud.

 

Maybe he is also thinking that every time the two of you go out he ends up tired in the morning and doesn't do so well at his job. Or if it's on the weekend he is hungover and can't do the 1001 household chores you want him to do like stain the deck or rototill the lawn. Because he's an old fart.

 

Maybe he is also thinking about trying to save money for these things rather than going out paying cover charges and for $8 appeltinis (or whatever you drink) or cab rides, $50 - 100 -200 for a night on the town, plus dinner, throw in another couple hundred down the tubes.

 

Old fart indeed.

 

He is looking toward the future with you. Are you going to have his back? Do you have the same priorities?

 

When he comes home exhausted from work and all he wants to do is a quiet evening at home where you fix him dinner, give him a beer, watch TV and then have some sex, are you going to flip him the middle finger say FU and go out dancing instead?

 

The mere fact that you would call him an old fart either to his face or here or in your head means you are seriously lacking in a basic level of respect for this man and you really need to re-evaluate how serious you are about this man, this relationship, and where your life is going.

 

There are plenty of guys who will be there for you for fun-time but won't stick around when the fun is done.

 

 

 

 

 

It's all about priorities.

 

Going out dancing should be way down on your list.

 

I am very much on board... but how is my wish to go out one night (on a Saturday, nonetheless, after we'd already discussed it) an indication of otherwise? I spend MOST of my time being an adult, working full time, rearing my 7 year old child, cooking, cleaning, etc. Unless he wants to see me in housecoats and my hair in rollers once the clock strikes 7pm within the next few years of my still young life, I reserve the right to a fun night out once in a blue moon. The old fart comment was meant in jest. I wholeheartedly love and respect this man, and quite honestly, we both joke about getting old and having a hard time staying up past midnight these days. However, I don't think wishing to go out dancing once every six months or so is unreasonable, or threatens to offset my priorities.

[moomin]

Where I live going into a main town as just a couple is remarkably intimidating, there are younger crowds and trouble and on my own or with the boys then I dont care or even with a group but on your own, I would just die if I couldn't protect my wife for what ever reason

[Nyla]

He's not. He's starting to think like a mature adult with serious plans to commit to a woman, perhaps anticipation of starting a family, buy a house, get a mortgage, life insurance, fast-track his career to get more money to pay for all these things--you know, all of the things that make people with these kinds of responsibilities too busy and too tired and too stressed to spend very much time going out till the wee hours except maybe on a few times a year like a birthday or anniversary.

 

(Oh wait that is an "old fart" isn't it?)

 

And, most likely, he wants assurance that you are also on board with this notion of family life.

 

Maybe he is thinking that he does want to marry you and buy a house with you and have children with you. That means he has to pay for all that stuff. That means he has to work his @ss off. He needs to think about 529 college plans for the children that the two of you are going to have. He needs to think about the minivan he is going to have to buy for you.

 

If you are working right now but start getting pregnant and having a couple of kids with him, maybe like a lot of women you end up staying home to raise the kids for a few years. So he has to work extra hard to make up for the lost income.

 

Yeah just like an old fart. A stick in the mud.

 

Maybe he is also thinking that every time the two of you go out he ends up tired in the morning and doesn't do so well at his job. Or if it's on the weekend he is hungover and can't do the 1001 household chores you want him to do like stain the deck or rototill the lawn. Because he's an old fart.

 

Maybe he is also thinking about trying to save money for these things rather than going out paying cover charges and for $8 appeltinis (or whatever you drink) or cab rides, $50 - 100 -200 for a night on the town, plus dinner, throw in another couple hundred down the tubes.

 

Old fart indeed.

 

He is looking toward the future with you. Are you going to have his back? Do you have the same priorities?

 

When he comes home exhausted from work and all he wants to do is a quiet evening at home where you fix him dinner, give him a beer, watch TV and then have some sex, are you going to flip him the middle finger say FU and go out dancing instead?

 

The mere fact that you would call him an old fart either to his face or here or in your head means you are seriously lacking in a basic level of respect for this man and you really need to re-evaluate how serious you are about this man, this relationship, and where your life is going.

 

There are plenty of guys who will be there for you for fun-time but won't stick around when the fun is done.

 

 

 

 

 

It's all about priorities.

 

Going out dancing should be way down on your list.

 

If Venusian's boyfriend was the one who wanted to go out dancing and she wanted to stay home, would you say that her boyfriend needed to have different priorities as well?

 

Why are his needs automatically more important than hers?

 

I'm detecting a lot of contempt for Venusian and her POV.

 

There is nothing immature about wanting to have fun once in a while, no matter what age you are or responsibilities you have.

 

My husband and I are a quiet couple; one of things he loved about me when we were dating was that I had no interest in the club or bar scene. We don't like to go out dancing, but we do like dinners and getaways. Of course, not having babies makes those pursuits much easier.

 

My husband rarely goes out with his friends, but when he does I don't give him a hard time about it. We are not joined at the hip. I am far more social than my introvert husband, but he never tries to stop me from having lunch or coffee with my girls.

 

You keep implying that Venusian wants to go out "all the time" or dance until "all hours of the night." I don't know why you keep making this assumption, especially after Venusian has clearly stated that she only seldom wants to go out dancing.

 

It seems like you are trying to portray Venusian as a selfish and immature woman. Is this because you have had a bad experience with women who like to go out dancing or have active social lives?

[Nyla]

OMG. Why all this drama about commitment and issues and all this nonsense simply because the guy doesn't want to go out dancing?

 

And that's what it was - a lame excuse to stay in because he JUST DIDN'T FEEL LIKE going out dancing.

 

OP, stop defending yourself to the stupid accusations about how HE'LL have to buy YOU a house and buy YOU this and that and college loans and every thing else. You're working a full time job so stop defending yourself to those who think that EVERY woman is like the one that screwed THEM.

 

Thank you.

[todreaminblue]

My boyfriend is a few months older than I am; we are both 30. This past weekend, while my son was at his dad's, I had wanted to go out dancing with my boyfriend. I ran it by him in the morning, and he seemed cool with it. After dinner, I started discussing what time we should leave and so forth, and my boyfriend confessed that he was too tired (which in and of itself was understandable) but went on to say: "And besides, people our age don't really go out anymore. We stay home with the kids and enjoy cozy nights in." Most of the time, I'm fine with that. No problem. We actually do that with my son quite often. But... we're 30!! I've never heard of 30 being old, or am I misinformed? I got pretty perturbed at him, and said, "Well hey, we aren't married yet, and I'm not old, so I still like to have fun sometimes." And by fun, I don't even mean getting drunk or flirting around- I simply enjoy dancing and having an adventure here and there.

 

Where does he get this idea from?! It isn't a huge problem for me, because he's so wonderful, but this... is just silly. Once we are married, I will be perfectly content to stay in most nights, and as I see (more) children in our future, it will be harder to go out. But for now, the way I see it is: We're still young, and we AREN'T married yet... so what wrong with having fun now before it becomes harder to do so in the future?

 

 

if it were true they would not have over 30s clubs for people to go to ......i do understand the club scene is for them there younguns i havent been dancing for a long time, i would choose to go to an over 30s club i fi did go out because i dont like to be hit on by guys i have to ask for id......makes me feel like a cop especially when they dont say rack off(i hope for that) and show it to me....then it gets awkward.....maybe your bf doesnt enjoy the club scene or even dancing......i do believe in going on dates for spice....no matter what age, i believe people can do the shuffle with walkers...., i have danced on crutches..they became a prop..that wasnt much fun..didnt last long...deb

[xxoo]

As a homebody, I feel I need to say that going out late at night is not fun for everyone! And it isn't necessary to go out late together to have a happy marriage

 

He probably viewed "going out" as a necessary part of dating, but never really enjoy it. Go out with your friends, and do other things together. Afternoon dates work just was well

[Nyla]

This sounds hypothetical and off-topic. Why don't we try to stick to the issue at hand?

 

OP didn't say her boyfriend had some kind of a double standard where sometimes he would want to go out and party when she preferred to stay at home, yet he refused to go out when she wanted to.

 

Why would you want to threadjack by discussing a problem that doesn't even exist (at least not according to what OP has posted so far)?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is another thread jack since Op never stated that she believed her boyfriend put his needs above hers.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe that's because you seem to have trouble actually reading what was posted in the thread so may have a misunderstanding?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The issue isn't what you believe to be immature, it's whether or not OP and her bf can find the common ground.

 

But I will say calling him "old fart" is a rather immature turn of a phrase and does nothing to resolve their issue in a mature way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is about your fourth threadjack--this post isn't about your relationship it's about the OP's. (Although a lot of people here seem invariably to want to bring their own relationship into a discussion on someone else's thread.)

 

 

 

 

 

Yes and why do you think he loved that about you? It means he didn't need to worry about you one day getting bored while he was working and going out and partying and possibly cheating on him. Presumably he could have married a "party girl" if he wanted to but he didn't.

 

Since you brought it up--did you ever ask HIM, that is your husband, his thoughts about this? Or, like so many other wives, do you presume to render his opinions for him without asking him what they are?

 

 

 

 

 

Much. If you don't have children it's like having zero responsibilities compared to a parent of young kids. Of course OP does have a kid so she understands those responsibilities.

 

 

 

 

Congratulations?

 

 

 

 

No one is talking about lunch and coffee with the girls and I think you are well aware of that.

 

 

 

 

 

Since I never wrote that, then I didn't "imply" it. You illogically inferred it. There's a difference. You (like many other posters) read into things when they aren't there. However if something I wrote was too nuanced and complex for you to understand its meaning correctly then I apologize for that.

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't.

 

 

 

 

The acceptable frequency is a matter between her and her bf to determine and is not up to your definition of "seldom."

 

 

 

 

 

No it doesn't since I didn't and aren't.

 

If you had bothered actually reading the words that I actually wrote, you will see that I spoke in terms of her level of commitment to the relationship and her bf's possible insecurity about that level of commitment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No but I'll bet your husband has which is why he married you instead of a party girl.

 

But go ahead and ask your husband. I'll be interested in his response and waiting for it right here for you to post it.

 

My post, which you just quoted, was directed at you and not the OP.

 

I was trying to see if you had a double standard about men going to clubs while they are in a relationship.

 

Members who have posted about their marriages have done so as examples which relate to Venusian's issue. I thought that was very obvious, but perhaps not.

Edited February 7, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Nyla]

I believe that you refuse to answer the question about double standards, because you think that women should not go dancing while they are in a relationship but men can. If I am wrong, feel free to correct me.

 

You are no position to decide what is relevant to a thread. Just because you deem certain posts irrelevant, doesn't mean that they are.

 

If two people who love to party date or marry each other, wouldn't that be a perfect combination? I don't think that a man or a woman who chooses to marry a club hopper is necessarily stupid.

 

The OP only mentioned going out dancing once in a while, but you are responding to her as though she is constantly at clubs.

 

My husband casually dated and slept with party girls before he met me. He found my dislike of clubs and bars refreshing. My husband also thought it was very endearing that I had (and still have) a low tolerance for alcohol, compared to the women he dated that could drink as much as any man. He thinks women who can drink a lot are disgusting.

[venusianx13]

Wow, people are coming at this from so many angles...

 

To be honest, it was about more than just going out to a silly club. Disclaimer: I hate stereo-typical clubs, actually, but there just happens to be an underground club that I enjoy. Anyway, I don't go out a lot, and as I mentioned, one of the first dates my bf and I had ended up at this particular club, and we had a great time. I kind of thought this would be a nostalgic experience for us...and might fan the flame a little, considering that the honeymoon phase is slowing a bit. That's not a bad thing, I just want to keep things fun and exciting for us. I actually posted another thread about sexy lingerie on Valentine's Day...

 

Not even in my own defense, I welcome domestic life. I am a kick-ass cook, a devoted mommy and doting partner. Tonight, I actually prepared a second dinner (for tomorrow) to bring to my bf's house after work since his parents are in town visiting for a few days. Taking care of people is what I do best. I think I'll be pretty good at it when the time comes, but part of me is afraid I'll become boring and forget about the things that help make me unique, and appealing to my partner. As I mentioned, I don't want to spend my weekend evenings in housecoats with my hair up in rollers. And I want to keep that spark alive...

[Nyla]

Wow, people are coming at this from so many angles...

 

To be honest, it was about more than just going out to a silly club. Disclaimer: I hate stereo-typical clubs, actually, but there just happens to be an underground club that I enjoy. Anyway, I don't go out a lot, and as I mentioned, one of the first dates my bf and I had ended up at this particular club, and we had a great time. I kind of thought this would be a nostalgic experience for us...and might fan the flame a little, considering that the honeymoon phase is slowing a bit. That's not a bad thing, I just want to keep things fun and exciting for us. I actually posted another thread about sexy lingerie on Valentine's Day...

 

Not even in my own defense, I welcome domestic life. I am a kick-ass cook, a devoted mommy and doting partner. Tonight, I actually prepared a second dinner (for tomorrow) to bring to my bf's house after work since his parents are in town visiting for a few days. Taking care of people is what I do best. I think I'll be pretty good at it when the time comes, but part of me is afraid I'll become boring and forget about the things that help make me unique, and appealing to my partner. As I mentioned, I don't want to spend my weekend evenings in housecoats with my hair up in rollers. And I want to keep that spark alive...

 

Nothing wrong with wanting to keep the spark alive. Relationships become too routine and boring without efforts to awaken passion.

 

My husband and I go out on dates, enjoy weekend getaways and make love all over our place. Have to keep things new and exciting.

 

Ten months is still the honeymoon phase, especially since you don't live together.

 

Keep taking care of those you love, as long as they can do the same once in a while.

[Els]

I sincerely recommend reporting Lik instead of taking his bait and allowing him to derail any thread he pleases to fit his own rather unsubtle agenda.

 

OP, would you care to answer my questions, please?