Acting like we are half our age and single?!

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

So I am just looking for other opinions to see if I am a prude, or the antics my friends and I participate in are somewhat normal and or not that unusual (between consenting married adults). All of our homes are within a short walking distance, and we have lived in this area for about 12 years, we all have several kids in each household, are on our first marriages (which are 15+ years in duration or more).

 

Basically this group of 6 (3 married couples) of us who party (planned event) at least 10 or more times a year, and get together socially perhaps weekly. Sometimes it’s just the 6 of us, often there are others, but by the end of the night it's usually down to just us. They almost always drink, I do perhaps half the time (or maybe a little less often than that even). I would not say the drinking is even totally out of hand - my measure of that is simply that slurred speech, falling over and/or puking is virtually non-existent. The drinking is not an issue at all to me.

 

It's the sexual antics and behaviors towards one another that sometimes bother me, and/or sometimes make me jealous. To me it is much like teenage and/or college party stuff. Examples include anything from laying across someone on a couch, sitting in a lap, ice down the shirt, grabbing and or groping of (clothed) body parts. It's basically low to medium level flirting. It is all open, occurs only when we are together as couples, and never involves flesh on flesh in any way shape or form (at least not yet). Does the fact that it’s not flesh on flesh really matter anyways? Some of the stuff is borderline gratifying in my opinion (moving around on top of one another fully clothed as an example). Any further explanation would be simply to justify that it’s not so bad really. I would be glad to answer specific questions though.

 

She gets jealous too. One time my wife said I was tickling ‘her’ and making her laugh alot, which is too emotional for her (I think you should have been more concerned about me laying next to her groping her to be honest).

 

Basically the fun seems to be a release and also makes us each individually feel good about ourselves as desirable and as my wife says ‘sexy.’ I trust 99% that there is nothing going on and never would be behind anyone’s back. We often say we are like family… we’re certainly not in that way, but we are very close, I could trust them with just about any secrets. One of the couples has helped us over the last couple years in rough spots in our marriage. Kind of counseled us you might say.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think that I want to stop and or reduce the sexual antics and move on from that part of my life. I think it is sort of immature and unnecessary and not congruent with my values. Or maybe that's just an excuse for when I get jealous, I am honestly not sure. I guess I need to explore my concerns more closely.

 

Why participate in this way if we walk away feeling insecure about our partner? Well she takes the stand of 'it's her choice and she is ok with it', basically ending with the fact that I need to loosen up and enjoy myself instead of trying to control her...

 

So, give me some input, even if it's just a one line response to tell me you think it's acceptable, or not.

 

If you are so inclined, respond on a scale of 1-10.

10 being that it is the worst thing possible in a marriage, even if both adults are ok with it; and

1 being it’s absolutely normal and can do no harm whatsoever…

[xxoo]

I don't think it is terrible if it is what you and your group is comfortable doing, but it is not something I would be comfortable doing. I don't want my H groping anyone but me, and I don't want anyone but him groping me.

 

I do think you have "blurred" the boundaries enough that there is some unnecessary vulnerability to affairs. I would be uncomfortable with that, too.

 

As for "it's her choice and she is ok with it"--well, the boundaries of your marriage are not entirely her choice. It is true that, ultimately, she can do what she wants--but hopefully she is mature enough to understand that we can not always grope and be groped by whomever we want and remain married.

[rachel7475]

Sounds a lot like our place when people come over and alcohol is involved, I wouldn't worry about it too much - we all like to cut loose and we are human, and we are just having fun being flirty. Just know that it can lead to things getting out of hand and things you might regret the next day. If it goes toward any kissing or showing body parts or anything I would definitely speak up. This is how threesomes happen... people get too drunk and think it's a good idea... ends in ruined friendships.

[elemental1]

tread carefully my friend - i have similar experience and things actually did happen...but in my case, and i am sure this is rare, nothing was really damaged afterwards. there was no sex, but almost everything else...

the thing is, if you let things happen...even if you define some boundaries...those boundaries are going to be tested by one person or the other. she may be fine with it, but you arent and because of that, it cant happen. harmless flirting is just that...harmless. make sure it stays that way.

 

i have given my GF some freedom in the past and she returned that freedom to me and we fooled around with close friends before. but because of that she has recently asked me about trying an open relationship... now we are having problems. so if what is happening is harmless in your opinion, do not let it go any further.

i am kind of in the same boat as you... i dont want to live like we are in college...those days are over for me and i am fine with that. she might not be. you just need to be honest with her - define your limits and boundaries and let her know that if they are tested, then you will have problems.

as for wanting to move on in your life... just dont party as often. instead of once a week, do it twice a month. if you are still feeling the same way, then further decrease the frequency.

[Stung]

I don't think it is terrible if it is what you and your group is comfortable doing, but it is not something I would be comfortable doing. I don't want my H groping anyone but me, and I don't want anyone but him groping me.

 

I do think you have "blurred" the boundaries enough that there is some unnecessary vulnerability to affairs. I would be uncomfortable with that, too.

 

As for "it's her choice and she is ok with it"--well, the boundaries of your marriage are not entirely her choice. It is true that, ultimately, she can do what she wants--but hopefully she is mature enough to understand that we can not always grope and be groped by whomever we want and remain married.

 

 

As often happens, I find myself virtually agreeing word for word with xxoo.

 

Everyone sets their own marital boundaries, but they set them as a team. Setting boundaries for marital behavior that makes you feel secure--within reason--is not 'controlling'.

 

Personally, I'm not sure there's anything bad about a little flirting now and then. Everybody does need to feel sexy. BUT, and this is a big but, what you are describing does NOT sound at all like 'low to medium' flirting to me. Groping, sitting on laps, grinding on couches, ice down the shirt--that's gone way over the line past flirting, IMO. I also think it's very poor thinking to do this kind of thing with the same group of people over and over again. It's one thing to spend ten minutes verbally flirting with a stranger you'll never see again, it's quite another to spend a drunken couple of hours touching and laughing and sitting on the lap of somebody you're going to do the same thing with a week later. Relationships are getting blurred, signals are misfiring all over the place, and it all sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

Bottom line is you've both walked away from these nights feeling jealous and insecure. How is that good for your marriage?

 

Your wife evidently needs more validation, to feel 'sexier'. Is there some way she can receive more of that from YOU?

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

I'm really having a hard time with this with her...

 

She does not understand how I can suddenly want to just stop and end this when I have participated all along...

 

She's says I am maturing and she's not.

 

It's tough. Creating a huge rift... like we are going down different roads type thing... uggg.

 

For now, I just keep trying to work on it.

 

Stung makes a good point in that I need to make her feel sexier and validated without the need for that from the neighbors...

[jenifer1972]

With this going on with 6 people, something is going to blow up and it will be ugly. Think of all the cross relationships going on at once here.

 

If you are uncomfortable with this and voice it, and she is dismissive, she is drifting emotionally away from you and enjoys carrying on with other men. Can't see that as a good thing.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

If one partner says they are uncomfortable with the dynamic, the other should listen, assess the situation, discuss and do what is right, which is to respect the other POV.

 

My spouse has a very attractive single friend, we have fun and I let her dictate how and what she will do with me (ie. touch, conversation, sharing) all with my wife there..... I know not to overstep my bounds so as neither she, nor my wife at all feel uncomfortable.

 

I think borders are being crossed and yes it is immature as people see how far it can go.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Thanks for all the input thus far - you have all given me a lot to think about. It's helped me clarify things in my mind so that when I approach them with my wife I have a better understanding.

 

I have to admit it's easier just to go and enjoy the fun times and feeling good. We all get ego boosts from it, each and every one of us. We are 10 years strong, very close friends, and all seem to be happily married...

 

It's much harder to say well we enjoy the company of our close friends, but no need to play in that way - it affects our relationship negatively in other ways and we'll either not get together as often or leave the parties earlier, etc. It takes strength, maturity, and willpower.

 

She wants me to jump on the easier bandwagon instead of her doing things the harder way - my way...

 

She conceded last night that if I refused to go she would not go either. She would be out of place alone. I have no problem with get-togethers that involve the kids, since the environment is obviously not conducive to the jealousy inducing actions of adult only get-togethers.

 

Still there is more to discuss, this issue is certainly a significant topic of our conversations lately...

[30Years]

Stung makes a good point in that I need to make her feel sexier and validated without the need for that from the neighbors...

 

You can't really compete on this sort of thing. You both need to understand and accept this. Flirtations from those other than long-term SO's always make us feel better than flirtations from SO's It's just human nature.

 

You can make her feel better, sexier, more validated, but not to the same extent that others can.

[xxoo]

You can't really compete on this sort of thing. You both need to understand and accept this. Flirtations from those other than long-term SO's always make us feel better than flirtations from SO's It's just human nature.

 

You can make her feel better, sexier, more validated, but not to the same extent that others can.

 

Well, it is different, but I wouldn't say that the attention from other is always better. Afterall, just anyone can turn a new head, but how sexy do you need to be to turn the same head over and over for decades? But it does take some maturity and inner confidence to really appreciate that angle.

 

The OP can give her attention, and show his appreciation for her attributes, but it is up to her to feel good about herself without the attention from others.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

The OP can give her attention, and show his appreciation for her attributes, but it is up to her to feel good about herself without the attention from others.

 

Very well put.

[30Years]

The OP can give her attention, and show his appreciation for her attributes, but it is up to her to feel good about herself without the attention from others.

 

Is that possible? Can anyone feel good about themselves without positive attention from others? I mean, we all look in the mirror. We do that for a reason, right?

[Lucky_One]

I vote that continuing is a recipe for disaster. I have seen too many marriages breakup from the double betrayal of a spouse cheating with a very close friend. And it starts just like what you are describing. Everyone has a bit too much to drink, a girl sits on a guy's lap, his hand brushes her breast, he gets an erection, she feels it, and then the two of them find themselves the only ones in the garage grabbing more beers out of the fridge while the other spouses are in the living room. One kiss, and the match is put to the powderkeg (that all the parties have been heating over a bonfire anyway).

 

Flirting doesn't, IMHO, involve touching like you are describing. I would be surprised if there hasn't already been some sexual activity among at least 2 of the non-marrieds in this group of 6.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Is that possible? Can anyone feel good about themselves without positive attention from others? I mean, we all look in the mirror. We do that for a reason, right?

 

Actually I wasn't disagreeing with your statement that I can't give her the same feelings from the appreciation that someone else can.

 

Just that it's up to her if she can live without all the feelings and appreciation the other men show her.

 

The other side of the coin for me, which is likely the source of my insecurity and/or jealousy is that I sometimes feel like the things she does with the other guys should be reserved for me and only me... but she says that she does it with me there, wouldn't do it if I wasn't and doesn't do it with any other males (which I beleive to be true). The other thing is that I have done it all with the females too... as pointed out in the thread earlier, it's just one big huge hot mess...

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

I would be surprised if there hasn't already been some sexual activity among at least 2 of the non-marrieds in this group of 6.

 

There has been one known act of infidelity that I am aware of. It did not involve 2 of the 6... one wife with a friend from her long long past (FB is a wonderful thing - NOT). Her husband does not believe in divorce under any circumstance (he is a child of divorce himself) and they seem to be ok. Very loving couple that actually had counselled and helped my wife and I when we were at a low marital point ourselves.

 

I agree though, that the physical stuff is just out of line... that seems to be the concensus here. Those who cross the lines of physical flirting seem to be in the minority. Not that that by itself would make a decision for me one way or the other.

[30Years]

Actually I wasn't disagreeing with your statement that I can't give her the same feelings from the appreciation that someone else can.

 

Just that it's up to her if she can live without all the feelings and appreciation the other men show her.

 

The other side of the coin for me, which is likely the source of my insecurity and/or jealousy is that I sometimes feel like the things she does with the other guys should be reserved for me and only me... but she says that she does it with me there, wouldn't do it if I wasn't and doesn't do it with any other males (which I beleive to be true). The other thing is that I have done it all with the females too... as pointed out in the thread earlier, it's just one big huge hot mess...

 

I never thought you were disagreeing with me.

 

She can live without these specific flirtations - so can you. You two just don't want to. I can understand that. But the both of you need to discuss WHY you feel the way you do after these "flirtations." Then you can decide, mutually, whether or not it should continue.

 

Regardless of whether or not you continue to attend, the discussion would be a healthy conversation.

[xxoo]

Is that possible? Can anyone feel good about themselves without positive attention from others? I mean, we all look in the mirror. We do that for a reason, right?

 

I'm not sure about the hypothetical extreme, but we can certainly feel good about ourselves without positive attention from men/women other than our spouse.

 

I do think it is a good idea to talk about why you each like the attention from the neighbors, and if that is a positive thing for you as individuals and as a couple.

[sally4sara]

Most of it sounds pretty benign until you get to the grabbing/groping part even with no skin to skin contact. We have friends we are just wild about and stupid antics like the ice down the back of your shirt or tongue and cheek comments are pretty normal without awkwardness because it never goes anywhere. Its much more wocka wocka wocka than hey hey now hot stuff.

We have one couple we are really close with where the husband's drinking can get pretty excessive and he will tend to blackout on occasion. The drama this has caused is usually the kind where he mouths off to someone on the street and then my husband has to talk down the cops who wander over to see what the fuss is about. But one time though, the guy did grab/grope me when I was trying to help him stand back up. We ALL got real irritated with him at that point and its never happened since. Maybe if I'd not gotten upset it would still be happening?

Perhaps another talk about boundaries and comfort levels with your wife is in order? She doesn't like you tickling other women, so maybe there are interactions she thinks are harmless but can respect your wishes on in the same vein? Something along the lines of I won't tickle if you stop *whatever* it is that bothers you?

 

I do wonder though if you're getting an odd benefit from this in that after they leave, you and your wife burn off the sexual tension with each other for having had your flirty fun with your friends get ever so slightly out of hand? But I can see how it might trouble you as well.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

She can live without these specific flirtations - so can you. You two just don't want to.

 

Actually, that's a big part of the issue. I have been OK with the fun and enjoyed over the years. Though I have always felt she enjoys it more than I. Now I am feeling like I want to eliminate and or reduce that behaviour... she feels like she doesn't need to and see's no harm in it.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

I do wonder though if you're getting an odd benefit from this in that after they leave, you and your wife burn off the sexual tension with each other for having had your flirty fun with your friends get ever so slightly out of hand?

 

I'm all for that. But she will have no part of it. Typically, she will not have sex after the parties and states openly that she does not want me thinking of them while I am being intimate with her...

[whichwayisup]

Next time you all get together, you and your wife cuddle up and grope eachother, and if anybody says anything about it, just laugh it off and say, I only want my wife or she can say i only want my husband.

 

Make it clear to you that the dynamic has to change, it's one thing to get together and hang out, another to have a groping session. It's too much and if she can't see that, then she has issues within herself and makes me wonder (is there a specific guy she prefers or is it different each time?) what she is getting out of it.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Next time you all get together, you and your wife cuddle up and grope eachother, and if anybody says anything about it, just laugh it off and say, I only want my wife or she can say i only want my husband.

 

I really like the above idea.

 

Make it clear to you that the dynamic has to change, it's one thing to get together and hang out, another to have a groping session. It's too much and if she can't see that, then she has issues within herself and makes me wonder (is there a specific guy she prefers or is it different each time?) what she is getting out of it.

 

There's really only two other guys to talk about, but even if there are others she tends to be an equal opportunity flirter... The over the line (for me) stuff only happen with the two we are closest with. And at the same time she (for the most part) would not have a problem what I did with thier wives...