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Full of resentment... causing major problems!


She's_NotInLove_w/Me

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She's_NotInLove_w/Me

Hi all,

 

I am late 30's. Married almost 17 years, together over 18 years, 5 kids ranging from 3 to 15. Lots of 'equity' and reasons to work on the marriage, obviously.

 

This morning I was driving in to work. She called and asked why I was a 'dick' when I left... Instead of the usual kiss goodbye, I said "I Love You" and ran out the door pretty much. Well, I just let it all loose. I mean the worst things one can say to their wife, it all spewed from my mouth. True verbal abuse by any definition. I think there's something wrong with me to be able to do that and then try to apologize for it afterward.

 

Our marriage is dysfunctional on many levels. Personally, my biggest problem right now is that she pretty much feels like she is able to do what she wants, but I have to be under lock and key. Basically she doesn't trust me. I have never been unfaithful and never would be. But she basically disagrees with that. She can go out late, go out for girls night out, etc, etc, etc, and she thinks that it's fine.

 

So basically I feel like she is mothering me and needing to watch my every move. I can't stand it anymore. I want to be free on so many levels.

 

I want to be free of all of the dysfunction, but I don't even know where to begin. I am almost thinking it's better to just walk at this point and be on my own. Fix myself and figure it all out on my own.

 

I am so angry right now. I used to feel like I would do anything for her, but now I feel like she just wants to own and control me. She doesn't get any of this at all. She just thinks I want out. So I ask her, if she is right, and it's me, then shouldn't she want to please me and improve things?

 

From my point of view she is no longer happy. She insists she is good, she is fine.

 

I'm so frustrated I just don't know what to do.

 

I don't want to end up another 7 years, or 17 years down the road feeling this unhappy about my past decisions. I feel like I should go.

 

I am so successful and put together in all other aspects of my life. I do not understand why a woman can do this to me. I have all my eggs in this one basket and I fear that this will be my downfall at some point. Better to bolt now than end up feeling hurt and like a fool down the road.

 

Signed,

Frustrated and lonely (and oddly emotional right now too, as you can figure out by reading the above)...

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The pressure you are feeling, like an anchor chain around your neck, is because your wife is and has been psychologically manipulating you.

 

That is obvious from the anecdote in which your wife called you up to call you a "d*ck." What an insulting thing to say to you! She just wants to make you feel bad, either for its own sake or to cause you to "lose it" and not be able to think rationally. If you're not being logical, she controls you, and she knows this. Either instinctually or deliberately. IOW she is "pushing your buttons."

 

This unease and pressure you feel is the invisible cage of your wife's emotional manipulation. For all we know about you it may be something that has gone on for a long time. Maybe the entire relationship.

 

The way to react to this manipulation--and it will take time and effort for you to change your behavioral responses, which are ingrained--is to take a step back and address the manipulation, itself.

 

For example, when she called you a "d*ck," rather than blowing up at her, the correct response would be to take a deep breath and say, in a calm manner: "What you just called me is disrespectful and unacceptable. Whatever issue you wish to discuss with me, I am simply not going to tolerate such conduct by you, in the future. I want you to think about what I just said. I am going to hang up the phone now because I have things to do but we can talk about this some more later on when you have had a chance to think about it and we both have some time to discuss what you did."

 

IOW you have to take total command of the interpersonal interaction on YOUR terms, but without losing control/losing your temper. Again this is not going to be easy because of the patterns that have developed.

 

She will most likely respond to your assertion of calm control by more manipulation, which can include crying, insults, screaming, threats, denigration--anything at all to push your buttons and make you lose control. When you lose control you are playing her game, and she wins.

 

Ultimately it doesn't sound like there's much if anything left of your marriage, but as it winds down to its inevitable dissolution, you can try to do so with some self-respect and dignity.

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Why doesn't she trust you? Could it be her own behaviour, she's doing something that is wrong, up to no good and she's reflecting that onto you?

 

Sort this out with her, go to marriage counselling because this is ruining your life and also the kids too..They must pick up on the negative energy level in the household.

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She's_NotInLove_w/Me

NLS, thank you for your insight, it is very helpful. You are reinforcing what both my wife and I know, which is simply that I have to learn to be responsible for my own commutation, action, and responses to her. If I can remain in control then it GREATL benefits everyone involved. Alas, I must look in the mirror and work on myself again; I cannot control what she does.

 

WWIU, I've been on LS long enough to know that complaint threads such as these lead to the inevitable questioning of the fidelity of both parties in the relationship. We are each other’s only sexual partners to date (both virgins when we met), and I firmly believe this still to be true (I of course know its a fact for me). I truly feel that if she is and/or was cheating, I would just like it to come to light so I could asses if she wishes to choose and work on our marriage, or some other relationship, and where to focus my energies. It would even explain why things have been going the way they have. I TRULY do not believe this to be the case at all though.

 

We've been through 5 marriage counselors in our 17 years together. Marital counseling has, from my point of view, always been a band aid, never leading to true change for the positive. Only temporary or very minor changes, or even just a good feeling about our relationship for some time period during or after the counseling.

 

I needed somewhere to collect myself, and I have done that since this morning...

 

I have a wife who IMHO is EXTREMELY afraid of a marriage like her parents, where her dad ruled the roost and basically, bossed her mom around and did more a less as he pleased. I am not like that in my style of leadership (even with the kids or at the office), but even beyond that, our relationship has molded me to allow her concessions in many ways where I do not feel the need to be in charge. I now see the mistake in that. She likely needs a little stronger hand than I have presented, and a little more masculinity from me. Very important for her to respect me. I have 4 daughters, so I understand that respecting the feminine and allowing her her space is important too.

 

This whole relationship thing can be quite daunting, even after 18 years of being in the thick of things!

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She is not simply afraid of being like her mother.

 

She has role-modeled herself as her own father.

 

Believe it or not, children often role-model the opposite-sex parent.

 

It's pretty clear that's what your wife has done. She's not "afraid" of becoming oppressed like her mother was. She is the oppressor.

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controlledchaos

i had this whole long post typed out and two of my kids made it all disappear. blah.

 

so short version. i'm sorry you're both going through this and that there are feelings of resentment. i have been in a long relationship like yours, however mine is ending. i too have 5 kids, 4 of them being girls. i am also from the chicago suburbs. there are so many variable at work here. where you live could play a part in her behavior. how much time you spend working vs. home with the family could too. she was definitely trying to start something with her phone call. there was NO NEED for her to call you and ask you that question, essentially calling you a name. she could've just let your briefness in the AM slide and touched base with you later in the day. or she could've called and asked politely what was up.

 

your ability to lash out at her, is cause for concern. even if you can acknowledge you were wrong. how often does this happen? how far do you go? how mean do you get? i have been in a verbally and emotionally abusive marriage. the physical part started closer to the end, even though parts of it were always there. but, i tolerated it for so long because we had been together for so long and had so many kids together. i didn't realize how destructive it really was for me to be in this type of relationship til i started coming out of it.

 

are you a workaholic? do you adequately balance work and family? are you an involved father? do you take an active interest in your wife and her life? i don't mean you have to share activities, but do you support her? ask her about her day, experiences, feelings, etc? do you dismiss her thoughts and feelings most of the time? do you think she needs to be told what to do or how to do something or do you trust and respect she can do it without help? do you live on the north shore? is this behavior towards you typical for her? or is it a newish thing and is becoming more and more obvious or frequent??

 

what have all the counselors told you or suggested you two do to become closer?

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She's_NotInLove_w/Me
... she could've just let your briefness in the AM slide and touched base with you later in the day. or she could've called and asked politely what was up.

 

Well, there was a reason I was brief and she knew it, so to be honest I was playing games too. I suppose if I dig deep down, I wanted her to know I was upset, without saying it.

 

your ability to lash out at her, is cause for concern. even if you can acknowledge you were wrong. how often does this happen? how far do you go? how mean do you get? i have been in a verbally and emotionally abusive marriage. the physical part started closer to the end, even though parts of it were always there. but, i tolerated it for so long because we had been together for so long and had so many kids together. i didn't realize how destructive it really was for me to be in this type of relationship til i started coming out of it.

 

To be totally honest, verbal abuse, emotional abuse, and even some physical abuse has been a part of our marriage at given times. From both parties… terrible to think about the legacy we are leaving for our children. I would say manipulation and/or control is common, the verbal abuse and/or rage is perhaps a few times a year (should be virtually none, I know), physical can be counted on one hand over the years. Do you really feel better moving forward without your partner? I can’t imagine that I would ever feel that way. EVER. I’d give anything to make it work.

 

are you a workaholic? do you adequately balance work and family? are you an involved father? do you take an active interest in your wife and her life? i don't mean you have to share activities, but do you support her? ask her about her day, experiences, feelings, etc? do you dismiss her thoughts and feelings most of the time? do you think she needs to be told what to do or how to do something or do you trust and respect she can do it without help? do you live on the north shore? is this behavior towards you typical for her? or is it a newish thing and is becoming more and more obvious or frequent??

 

My wife says I work too much. I love my career WITH THE EXCEPTION OF the hours. About 50 hours a week+ 10 hours travelling, so 60 hours away from home. There is little to no opportunity to reduce that commitment in hours in the field I am in. I am definitely close to my kids, but I know there is much room for improvement there also. She often says she is like a single mom in many ways… In my opinion, my life revolves around her. I am spouse centered (Steven Covey reference, 7 habits of highly effective people); I don’t see my spouse centeredness changing unless we are no longer a couple. We actually do share activities, and I feel I support her always, of course she says I often don’t support her. I do trust and respect her more than she does herself, the other day she gave me a couple of examples that she felt she might not even be able to handle on her own (major insurance claim, contractor, etc). When things are not good this is typical behavior for both of us. But her patience and tolerance is becoming less and less, leading to her (or us I guess) being in a state of not good much more often…

 

what have all the counselors told you or suggested you two do to become closer?

 

The suggestions the counselors give us are effective in the short term. Things usually regress back to where they were at some point. We have not been to counseling in about 60 days. Perhaps it’s time to return there.

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She's_NotInLove_w/Me

Yesterday, we talked alot troughout the day. She is a stay at home mom, but has taken some hours at a local retailer with the intention of donating all of the income from these hours to the her breast cancer walk (she is a good person after all). So last night I surprised her when she got out of work late at night, I was waiting right by the door with white hot chocolate and some treats! I had also started her car and warmed it up too. We ended up shutting her car off and going to a late dinner. We really had a great great time. It was alomst like we were dating. We talked about a lot.

 

This morning I felt like the love of my life was back in my arms.

 

So overall, the temperature is lukewarm for now. I wonder how long I can make this particular 'up moment' last if I try my hardest. After all, I can only change myself, and hope that she will see the positive in me, and want to improve herself on her own.

 

I just wonder about the resentment and when that monster will rear it's ugly head. I'll post updates and thoughts here as I go along in this journey.

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The suggestions the counselors give us are effective in the short term. Things usually regress back to where they were at some point. We have not been to counseling in about 60 days. Perhaps it’s time to return there.

 

How is your communication? Has it improved with counseling?

 

What is your role in the pattern of regression? I'm feeling that you are conflict-avoidant, and then blow up when you reach a critical point of resentment. Accurate?

 

What is her role in the pattern?

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She's_NotInLove_w/Me
How is your communication? Has it improved with counseling?

 

What is your role in the pattern of regression? I'm feeling that you are conflict-avoidant, and then blow up when you reach a critical point of resentment. Accurate?

 

What is her role in the pattern?

 

Communication is often good; when neglected it of course causes issues. I feel I could do better here though.

 

You are spot on in your assesment of my conflict-avoidance followed by an eventual blow up. Stuffing as my wife and I now call it. This has been assesed by me wife, family, close friends, and even professionals. I doubt I can change this easily.

 

As far as her role in the pattern, I am not exactly sure. Good question.

Edited by She's_NotInLove_w/Me
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controlledchaos

do i really feel better moving forward not together? yes. would i have done anything to make it work? yes. would i subject my kids to a life of growing up in an abusive household? NO absolutely NOT. no way! the years they've spent like this so far was LONGER than it should've been. i grew up in an abusive household. i didn't realize that i was getting into an abusive relationship because of my upbringing. there is no way i would ever do that to one of my daughters. make her susceptible to being mistreated by a man because she grew up watching her father mistreat her mother. my H did not support me. he was a workaholic, who made it clear that his job was going to be the priority. in regards to us, he had "better things to be doing." our situation was constant. the nasty was always there. at the end of the day he didn't want to change, still doesn't.

 

if you love your wife and your children. i would suggest you figure out WHY you guys do this to one another. arguments are ok. they can be good, but lashing out, hurting one another does NOBODY any good.

 

as a stay at home mom to 5, for 8 years so far, i often felt like a single parent. it's hard and sometimes it down right sucks. if she's telling you that she feels like she's doing this alone a lot of the time, please believe her. even if you don't agree with her, validate that she is feeling that way. there is nothing worse than having an absent husband and father tell you you are crazy for feeling like you're doing it alone. if you're pushing her buttons on purpose, STOP! it's not doing either one of you any good. if you're working 60 hr weeks, leave work at work. make home be you and your family. get MORE involved! my H would work over 80 hrs a week. he'd work at home, he'd work all night, he'd pull all nighters, and work on weekends. and when i'd ask him for some family time he'd tell me i was complaining and ungrateful and that this was MY issue and i need to suck it up and deal.

 

if you do believe there is abuse in your marriage and has been for a long time, you need to get to the root of that. the sad thing about most abusive men is that they cannot change. if they really really want to they might be able to. it's not an anger management problem, and traditional marriage counseling usually doesn't help but make things worse. if she's dishing it back to you as much as you're dishing it out, she might not feel scared or threatened. doesn't mean there isn't an issue that really does need to be addressed. look at your girls, and think about how it would make you feel if one of them was married to a man treating them like you treat their mom. i once asked my H how he would feel and his response was something along the lines of " if she deserved it." if you feel that way, i would get help immediately. don't subject your kids to more of this.

 

get help! find someone that deals with violence in marriage. read books; "fighting for your marriage" is a good one, "boundaries in marriage", "why does he do that", and "when dad hurts mom". have her read them too. no time to read, can't wait to have it shipped to you....... if you have kindle or an iphone get the kindle app and buy them that way with immediate download. don't waste time. she very well could find herself like me. not wanting to live the rest of her life like this?? that her kids are getting older and she's done dealing with the crud. you might not feel that way, but she could.............. you never really know. i know that as i got closer to realizing i wasn't gonna do this anymore the shorter and shorter my fuse got. the more i just wouldn't deal with him. wouldn't engage with him. it wasn't over night, but a steady climb. now i'm armed with tools and i have no emotional connection to him at all. i have no feelings towards him whether negative or positive. i'm not angry with him, but i'm not friends with him either.

 

good luck!

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I think it's a double edged sword as far as working and not working.

In theory it sounds perfect when somebody cuts back at work, cuts back on hours, but then resentment sets in when people complain about no money, kids complain about no allowance or reduced allowance, etc. Sometimes people have to work to pay for the things they have. That's just the way it works. If one person is a stay at home mom, it means the other person is the bread winner. And this isn't 1950. It costs a lot of money to live on one persons income. And most people aren't making mid six figures.

 

It happens time and time again though. A stay at home mom complains that the guy is a workaholic. Complains he is never there. Then the guy gets laid off(quite common the last few years) and suddenly the stay at home mom is pissed there is no money and throws all hell onto the man for not having a job. Not being able to pay for this or that.

 

There needs to be balance, but this theory of "working too much" is rather absurd. Especially when many many people argue over money and bills.

 

You do need to spend more time with your family, but when people tell you you're a workaholic(and 50 hours per week isn't a workaholic), they usually are the same people who will B&&tch to you about you not having a job or making enough money to pay for things.

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She's_NotInLove_w/Me
... she very well could find herself like me. not wanting to live the rest of her life like this?? that her kids are getting older and she's done dealing with the crud. you might not feel that way, but she could.............. you never really know. i know that as i got closer to realizing i wasn't gonna do this anymore the shorter and shorter my fuse got. the more i just wouldn't deal with him. wouldn't engage with him. it wasn't over night, but a steady climb. now i'm armed with tools and i have no emotional connection to him at all. i have no feelings towards him whether negative or positive. i'm not angry with him, but i'm not friends with him either.

 

This is exactly where I believe my wife is at. Her fuse is short, gets shorter by the day. In my opinion, the more of her I see this way, the more I become distant and resentful and the closer we both get to the inevitable.

 

But the odd part is that is not what I want. After all of the years and all of the work to get this far, I can't just walk. I can adapt I suppose. But there is the risk of increasing the resentment more when she just gets closer to gone. Edgier, crankier, unhappier, etc...

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controlledchaos

then stop it dude! stop it dead in it's tracks! don't let your marriage erode any more than it has. YOU have the power to stop this and you have the power to move in the RIGHT direction.

 

my H had the power too. he choose not to use it. we drifted despite me trying to keep us together. he got nastier and nastier, and we spent less and less time even in the same space much less TOGETHER. if you were married to me and you wanted to save our marriage, i would recommend the books " love dare," "5 love languages," and "fighting for your marriage."

 

do you want to save your marriage because you truly love your wife and don't want to live without her? or do you want to save it so that you're not alone and you won't owe her things like child support and alimony? and you won't have to deal with the split time with the kids, etc.?

 

we saw a marriage counselor and he told my H to step up and take charge, to make a change if he wanted this marriage saved. my H said the counselor didn't know what he was talking about. then when he did ask me on a date he dug into me so deep that he reduced me to tears at a public comedy club in DC. once i was crying, he got up and walked away. he didn't speak to me the entire ride home and sent me an email the next day saying something along the lines of, " i hope last night wasn't too bad ( or uncomfortable) for you. let me know if you want to do it again." all i knew was that if that had been our FIRST date ever there was never going to be a second date.

 

in my experience, it wasn't easy to fall out of love ( even though he wasn't usually a nice person) but once it started, and he wasn't make it easy to love him at all, it was hard to stop the process. he could've stopped it earlier on, but he didn't want to hear that from me. i begged him to fix things with me. that our marriage was a sinking ship, and he told me he had to fix his job first. no woman wants to hear that.

 

as for the workaholic thing. perhaps there are different definitions. in my situation ( experience) i was married to a guy that worked ALL THE TIME. and he didn't do it to make ends meet. he makes a TON of money. we live in a huge house. our life style has always been very nice. i have never complained he didn't make enough money. even when he was unemployed for 4 months. we had put enough money away to survive without income for 4 months ( and we had 3 kids and a hefty mortgage). he has stated to me for the last decade that he FUNDAMENTALLY hates what he does for a living. so, what did i do? i told him i supported him in any choice he wanted to make regarding his career. if he wanted to quit working and hand out towels on a beach, i would do that. i would go back to work, we could move into a tiny place, rent or what not. i would do whatever it took for him to be happy. i grew up with a ton of money, being from the north shore of chicago i was raised in a very privleged community. but, i am not that type of person. i would rather be poor and happy and in love, than wealthy and miserable. i do think 80-100 hrs a week working is a workaholic. and mind you, i never complained about the hours he worked. i complained that his family was not given the same respect that his job was.

 

examples-- when my first daughter was born, he got a call from his "boss" about 6 hrs after her birth. his boss needed him to come into the lab and write a proposal that was due at 6a the next day. we were brand new parents. i had a 6 hr old baby. no other family around at all. and what did my H do? he left. he went to the lab and wrote the proposal. what does he do on family vacations? he brings his work. we can do disney world and he'll still be working once we get back to the hotel. we could be on a date and he'd get a message from work, and he'd need to text or email back ( this could be a friday night or a saturday or even sunday).

 

and at the end of it all, as things were dying out, dying down, just dying...... he asked me why *I* stayed as long as i did. he told me to take the kids and leave, and then when i was so confused and turned upside and had no idea what was going on, he asked why *I* stayed so long.................... i stayed because i loved him. but love dies too if it's left alone and ignored. it's a pretty fragile thing in fact.

 

sorry this is so long. i just really feel strongly that you can stop this if you want to. but, you have to change too. you recognize there is a problem. don't wait for her to say something. start now. do the love dare book, all 40 days of dares. if you love her and want to stay married. be the man she fell in love with. make her fall in love with you all over again!!!

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if you were married to me and you wanted to save our marriage, i would recommend the books " love dare," "5 love languages," and "fighting for your marriage."

 

I’ll get the books… after all I do want to save the marriage. We read the 5 love languages years ago. But I’ll get the books and update the thread once I have them in hand.

 

do you want to save your marriage because you truly love your wife and don't want to live without her? or do you want to save it so that you're not alone and you won't owe her things like child support and alimony? and you won't have to deal with the split time with the kids, etc.?

 

Without a doubt because I love her, and I want her back. All mine and all vested. Of course dealing with split households for the kids, big child support and alimony checks are really rough things too. I mean, a man does have to take care of his responsibilities, so the support is a given. But my in BIL and SIL (her brother), are both on second marriages, and each has one child. One of the kids won’t be with us for Christmas because he will be with his dad for 2 weeks this year. I was mentioning just yesterday how that must really suck! I don’t ever want to be there. It’s tough for divorced parents!

 

i begged him to fix things with me. that our marriage was a sinking ship, and he told me he had to fix his job first. no woman wants to hear that.

 

Either he is pretty stupid or exceptionally ballsy to say that, even if he felt that way. Regardless, he obviously did not have his priorities in order! I would honestly perfer to die financially limited, with a good relationship with my one and only wife, and good relationship with my kids, then with a financial empire and broken relationships… I am sure I will end up in the middle of that all somewhere, but I certainly wouldn’t sacrifice my wife and kids for career at any level! There’s just some things that will always come first! I hope I end up close to my ideal of strong financial security and strong relationships with those who matter most to me.

 

and at the end of it all, as things were dying out, dying down, just dying...... he asked me why *I* stayed as long as i did. he told me to take the kids and leave, and then when i was so confused and turned upside and had no idea what was going on, he asked why *I* stayed so long.................... i stayed because i loved him. but love dies too if it's left alone and ignored. it's a pretty fragile thing in fact.

 

This seems to be where my wife and I are headed, but as you said, and I know, I have to keep this ship from sinking. First I have to focus on just keeping afloat, then I can begin to steer it correctly… Like many things in life, knowing what to do and actually doing it are two distinct things. Just like Nike, I have to Just Do It!

 

sorry this is so long. i just really feel strongly that you can stop this if you want to. but, you have to change too. you recognize there is a problem. don't wait for her to say something. start now. do the love dare book, all 40 days of dares. if you love her and want to stay married. be the man she fell in love with. make her fall in love with you all over again!!!

 

You’re right. I need to regain my confidence in my marriage, and not worry about what signals she may put out in the given moment. Show her I can be her rock and she’ll get to the place where she needs to be. She’s never loved any other man, just as I have never loved any other woman. 18 years, 5 kids, and the passion and love that can engulf us if we just stoke the fire just the right way… The ingredients are already there. Now it’s about the right mix, the timing, the strength and confidence that the risks are worth the rewards.

Edited by She's_NotInLove_w/Me
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controlledchaos

good to hear! i have faith you can save your marriage! i have the phrase, "while i breath i hope" ( in latin), tattooed on the inside of my foream. it's a constant reminder that with faith and hope almost all things are possible!

 

total tangent here, but you touched on how your wife would react in a certain moment in the last part of your post. it made me think of something my mom said to me the other day. she has a certain expectation that i will respond to her walking into my house a certain way. but, i have never responded the way she expects me to. don't expect that your wife will react a certain way. just do what you know is right and best and go from there. if you have expectations for her behavior and actions good chance you'll end up disappointed. you can watch the movie "fireproof" for examples of a wife's reactions on the love dare dares.

 

one more thing i read in a book was that we are NOT responsible for someone else's feelings or reactions. but we are to be responsible TO others, meaning basically-- be responsible. don't be careless with others, or intentionally hurtful. the lashing out, NOT ok! but, if you're honest with her or she is honest with you, how the other person FEELS with regards to that honesty is not your responsibility.

 

putting these things into practice is the hard part, you're right. but once you start it gets easier. just make sure you start ;-)!! i do wish that my H could see the value in our family. but he couldn't. that does make me sad. it makes me sad for my kids. we have 15 yrs together and 5 kids too. he's the only man i have ever loved as well. but, as i unfortunately learned, the reverse wasn't the case. cherish you wife! make sure she knows just how loved she is and how important she is to you!

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She's_NotInLove_w/Me

The last several days, and especially Christmas was pretty good for the entire family. Santa was good to everyone. I got my wife the Nook that she wanted. I also got the Fireproof DVD and Love Dare companion book and wrapped them up for her. Also the title "fighting for your marriage," which comes with the companion DVD. We have not read or viewed them at all... goes back to the knowing, and or having the tools vs actually doing and or using the tools.

 

We argued yesterday morning. During the argument, I bitched about the lack of sex... then at the end of the night was not in the mood (can't remember the last time that happened). When I turned her down it was like I started a world war! She left the bed for the night after saying things like might as well pack my stuff, this marriage is ending, it sucks, etc etc.

 

We argued more this morning. Maintained my composure pretty well. Got some good points across. Then I kissed her good bye when leaving for work, and reminded her that I love her. We talked/texted on the phone for an hour, and sorted through a lot of stuff. Then she drove out with our two youngest and we enjoyed lunch together.

 

So much drama since last night. So much up and down. Seems like we don't communicate well unless we are arguing.

 

Problem is that if one of us says something that is out of line, instead of curtailing it and reining the conversation back on track, the other says disrespectful and hurtful things too, and it continues a downward spiral. Neither of us wants to live like that. Yet we pretty much have interacted like that for years… it’s not a way for a couple to live!

 

I think there is a lot to work for in this marriage and I expressed it to her. Basically, it appears that she agrees, and maintains that we will continue to work towards our common goal of an improved togetherness and a more positive marriage and shared life.

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She just thinks I want out. So I ask her, if she is right, and it's me, then shouldn't she want to please me and improve things?

 

SHE thinks these things? YOU posted that it's exactly how you feel (felt) so seems to me she's got a pretty good read on you. Wouldn't you say?

 

I just wonder about the resentment and when that monster will rear it's ugly head. I'll post updates and thoughts here as I go along in this journey

 

It appears to me that you already have the marriage OVER. You are already expecting gloom & doom instead of enjoying your time with your wife.

I haven't read the whole post (some of these are darn long)

 

Every marriage runs into difficulties. If someone says there's has been perfect from day one then they are lying. Put 2 personalities under one roof, add mortgages, jobs, kids, etc...you have a recipe for "Difficulties"

You work thru it the best you can. :)You don't chuck it when it gets "Hard"

 

Counselors? Seems you've seen them all....maybe the answer is - Instead of throwing good money after bad on therapy, take your wife out more often. DATE each other again. You'd be surprised how your thought process could turn around from "Well I Wonder When The ShI#T Will Hit The Fan Again" - to - "Wow, things are going GREAT"!

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She's_NotInLove_w/Me

Thanks for the perspective Martini-Mae, I think you helped to shed a light on a very basic and fundamental element of success that I've forgotten in my marriage...

 

I have to place my goals and expectations as the ideal and the expected reality. Only then is it likely and/or possible to see the outcome I desire.

 

Sometimes it's just tough to do that. But I am confident if I can, that things will be better, my interactions will be more positive and I can be show more stablity and instill confidence in my wife and marriage.

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My W "fitness tests" me all the time. Yours does this to you as well. I have a message for you - either get good at responding or your marriage will continue to suck/or even end.

 

When your W "provokes you" by saying "you were a dick when you left" you have a choice to make.

1. You can explode

2. You can play games and act innocent even when in fact when you left you WERE upset (this is just as toxic as exploding - maybe more so - it kills "trust")

3. You can say "I am sorry - I was upset and didn't handle it well lets resolve it when I get home tonight"

 

By the way - you might have a valid basis for being upset when you left. And if so you have a RIGHT to address it firmly and calmly. What you don't have a right to do is say "I love you" walking out the door when you don't really mean it and you are in fact angry with her.

 

It is fine to say "I am not happy right now - lets address it when I get home tonight". And if she attempts to draw you into the full conversation when you don't have time - just calmly state "I feel angry/frustrated/etc about X". Let her respond and then tell her you wish you didn't have to go to work. And then leave. If she calls you and attacks you after doing that, you need to learn to say "this isn't constructive, and your tone is not acceptable - I am going to hang up now".

 

Accept that she may not be in love with you. Just accept it. If you change for the better and she doesn't maybe you will leave. But for now unless you get a handle on your temper (I have a temper also - it is hard but it can be managed if you are determined) your marriage will end.

 

BTW - she will gradually reduce the fitness testing if your response to it is consistent and effective. For instance there are nights when my W pokes at me and I simply give her a look that says "why are you doing that" and I am silent. You do not have to converse with someone who is being disrespectful, cruel or aggressive. You can just shrug and walk away.

 

It is ok to be silent if you are angry and not able to be constructive.

 

As for her desire issues I can share my personal experience. After 21 years, 3 kids and the onset of menopause I KNOW my W is not feeling much lust/raw sexual desire. AND I also know that she does feel a sincere and powerful desire to please me - as a wife.

 

While I accept the loss of libido as not something she can control. I would NOT accept the lack of a desire to please. And she understands that. She often says "I am here for you" meaning if "I" need sex she will connect with me. But you cannot expect her to feel respect for you as a man, if it is so very easy for her to get you to lose self control.

 

 

 

Thanks for the perspective Martini-Mae, I think you helped to shed a light on a very basic and fundamental element of success that I've forgotten in my marriage...

 

I have to place my goals and expectations as the ideal and the expected reality. Only then is it likely and/or possible to see the outcome I desire.

 

Sometimes it's just tough to do that. But I am confident if I can, that things will be better, my interactions will be more positive and I can be show more stablity and instill confidence in my wife and marriage.

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She's_NotInLove_w/Me

Mem, you're input is also appreciated.

 

I am not sure if she truly plans the 'fitness tests,' but in some form or another, they do occur and they are fairly regular. I have been staying much more stable and strong and handling it better. I can see that is what she needs me to do.

 

I would have never tought such simple moves could yield such positive results. But it does work! Being strong and steady in the face of adversity is exactly what is needed, and it's amazing how much better it all feels at the end of each day when I practice that throughout the day.

 

Where has this masculine and confident guy inside me been recently??? Nice to have him back!

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catgotyourtongue

Hi

I have read all the posts so far and found it very interesting and helpful, even though I am not not married, or in relationship. Thanks everyone for sharing. Something abt this topic caught my eye .....

 

To original poster, hat's off to you. I read your posts, responses and give you an extended hand for how you are dealing, approaching, responding, learning, working on your relationship. I would give anything to date a man who was able to look at his part, his role, his "stuff", his self, and be honest, and even more, do something about it. I have dated kind, good men, but most have not been good communicators or been able to look at themselves and learn, approach, address things. Some have been decent and willing, not many, and I so grateful when i experience that. Just because men are great or good guys does not mean they want or can communicate well. I wish it did....BUT it sounds like you are communicating well!!!!!

 

You sound grounded, aware and real. It's refreshing, you take your self and this situation seriously, and it's nice to see. You seem to have things you want to work on, and are doing that. AWESOME. I am always looking for open communication and meeting in middle, etc when I date, especially the older I get.

 

It sounds like your marriage is halfway between leaving and staying and part of me also reads your posts and thinks "OMG you have to end this, it sounds grueling and exhausting and painful and hurtful" but I sense your love for your wife, and your desire to make it work, and it's pretty cool to observe this as an outsider. With all the counseling and issues, and time, it does also seem hard to believe that real change, lasting change will happen but I sure hope it does. It's a long shot but not impossible. I feel so conflicted reading this, I can't imagine what it's like to live it. Go, stay, go, stay....it's brutal, and why so far I have not been able to commit to marriage ever. Hard stuff.

 

You just seem like you get it, or at least that what people are saying in this thread is hitting you in the right places and affecting you, and motivating thought and change.

 

Great posts, great honesty and openess. ME SO PROUD to be part of LS right now. Some very good advice in this thread, very good...

 

BEST of luck to you and your family, and I hope it all works out for you.

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Shesnot,

Glad you are making progress. I will share a personal observation with you. Every time my W pushes boundaries/does something I don't like and I handle it in a constructive, mature manner her respect for me INCREASES. This is not a lose/break even situation. It is a:

- blowup: lose

- be mildly irritated and not constructive: break even

- be calm and constructive, honest and respectful in how you respond: win

 

This last bit is not a "you win/she loses". This is - you either understand the valid reason she has for being upset which helps you grow OR you help her understand that her approach was not consistent with how SHE wants to be treated. Which helps her grow as a person.

 

That said, being respectful is very different than avoiding conflict/being a doormat.

 

One Saturday night at 11:30 I am in the living room reading. My W walks out of our office and as she passes me she snaps "the printer in the office isn't working".

 

I looked up (totally livid inside) and said in a neutral voice "I was not aware of that". And that was ALL I said because I am her partner - not her tech support biatch. And at that point I simply wanted her to be aware that the first I was hearing of this problem was via her totally over the top delivery. I didn't say anything else about it that night - I did say "good night" though I don't believe I offered the normal "I love you" as it would not have been genuine.

 

The next day I said "do you recall the way you spoke to me about the printer last night"? She did. I made the point about being partners and not her tech biatch. Then I was quiet for a while and I added.

 

I understand you are dependent on me when stuff like that breaks. And also that it frustrates you that you can't fix it. Lets turn this around so you can tell me how it would feel if I did in reverse what you did to me.

 

Lets say I am frustrated we haven't had sex in a few days. Can you imagine me EVER snapping at you that "I am horny".

 

All of this was said with no edge - this was the patient, understanding and nice delivery style. That said, had she chosen to deny/escalate or blameshift I would have turned the emotional AC on and:

- explained that her over the top behavior the night before coupled with a refusal to take responsibility for it was "unacceptable" - a word that has a very specific meaning in our marriage and a word I do not use lightly

- let her know that until I received an unconditional apology her tech support contract was revoked

- closed with - you need to get the Geek squad to help with the printer

 

And then I would have walked away.

 

None of that actually happened because after the "soft" approach she apologized and from then on when she asks for help she did it the same way I would ask her for help. As for why I had my "plan b" ready - well sometimes my W would rather do a precipice dance for a while than apologize. And I have learned that getting angry just causes me to say foolish things. So plan b in hand I don't get wound up. I just make a few points and end the conversation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mem, you're input is also appreciated.

 

I am not sure if she truly plans the 'fitness tests,' but in some form or another, they do occur and they are fairly regular. I have been staying much more stable and strong and handling it better. I can see that is what she needs me to do.

 

I would have never tought such simple moves could yield such positive results. But it does work! Being strong and steady in the face of adversity is exactly what is needed, and it's amazing how much better it all feels at the end of each day when I practice that throughout the day.

 

Where has this masculine and confident guy inside me been recently??? Nice to have him back!

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She's_NotInLove_w/Me

Thanks catgotyourtoungue, I really appreciated reading your post. It's a nice reminder that I am doing the right things, working towards the correct goals, and using self reflection to do so. I can only change myself and hope that she may see that and herself be inspired to improve also.

 

Mem, your tech support story was a good one too. Funny how you respectfully turned it into a level she obviously understood much better...

 

As for me, I continue to be tested. Continue to hear the odd remark, or sometimes even the full on request to end things. As tough as it sometimes is, I try my absolute hardest to stay stable, calm, and think long term. Rather than focusing on that moment of instability and hurt, I think about all of the long term investment so far, and the ultimate goal of being together (and happy), and I communicate that to her. It usually works. Sometimes it takes a little time. But it's worth it. That’s what I need to remember. The choices are really up to me. I am her strength and her light when she is questioning the marriage. And she sees it. And though I sometimes doubt, after the storm passes, and the fog lifts, it all becomes so clear to me - at that moment of calm I look around and think "THIS IS WHAT I DO IT ALL FOR."

 

Writing here is so helpful to me. Even going back and reading the thread has at times helped. I am glad that LS is here when I need it!

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Hi all,

 

I am late 30's. Married almost 17 years, together over 18 years, 5 kids ranging from 3 to 15. Lots of 'equity' and reasons to work on the marriage, obviously.

 

This morning I was driving in to work. She called and asked why I was a 'dick' when I left... Instead of the usual kiss goodbye, I said "I Love You" and ran out the door pretty much. Well, I just let it all loose. I mean the worst things one can say to their wife, it all spewed from my mouth. True verbal abuse by any definition. I think there's something wrong with me to be able to do that and then try to apologize for it afterward.

 

Our marriage is dysfunctional on many levels. Personally, my biggest problem right now is that she pretty much feels like she is able to do what she wants, but I have to be under lock and key. Basically she doesn't trust me. I have never been unfaithful and never would be. But she basically disagrees with that. She can go out late, go out for girls night out, etc, etc, etc, and she thinks that it's fine.

 

So basically I feel like she is mothering me and needing to watch my every move. I can't stand it anymore. I want to be free on so many levels.

 

I want to be free of all of the dysfunction, but I don't even know where to begin. I am almost thinking it's better to just walk at this point and be on my own. Fix myself and figure it all out on my own.

 

I am so angry right now. I used to feel like I would do anything for her, but now I feel like she just wants to own and control me. She doesn't get any of this at all. She just thinks I want out. So I ask her, if she is right, and it's me, then shouldn't she want to please me and improve things?

 

From my point of view she is no longer happy. She insists she is good, she is fine.

 

I'm so frustrated I just don't know what to do.

 

I don't want to end up another 7 years, or 17 years down the road feeling this unhappy about my past decisions. I feel like I should go.

 

I am so successful and put together in all other aspects of my life. I do not understand why a woman can do this to me. I have all my eggs in this one basket and I fear that this will be my downfall at some point. Better to bolt now than end up feeling hurt and like a fool down the road.

 

Signed,

Frustrated and lonely (and oddly emotional right now too, as you can figure out by reading the above)...

 

I believe the mutual word you MIGHT be looking for here is; RESPECT from both parties.

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