A Passion to Excel and Its Impact on a Relationship

[Zapbasket]

I've always known this about myself, but I feel like I'm coming to terms with it in a new, more realistic way: I love to excel. And when I have opportunity to become involved in something I'm really passionate about or fascinated by, I am capable of exerting tremendous amounts of drive and discipline to become as knowledgeable as I can about it.

 

When I'm passionate about something, I work hard to excel at it not because it's what is required of me (by an employer, say, or educational institution or program), but because it's what I require of myself. It's my own bar that I must rise to meet.

 

In the past, this capability of mine to work hard for the intrinsic reward of the knowledge and proficiency in something I'm passionate about has posed a challenge in my relationships. My first serious boyfriend (the one that brought me to LS initially) NEVER understood my drive, felt threatened by it, did not accept it, and ultimately that played into our relationship's demise. He could understand, for instance, that to obtain my master's degree I had to write a thesis as that was "required" by my university. BUT, he could not understand why, when the university only required a 35-page thesis, I felt compelled to immerse myself in research to produce a thesis that was, in depth of inquiry and research and length, the equivalent of a doctoral dissertation. He claimed at times that he understood, but I never felt that he did, because he'd say things a lot about the discrepancy between what the uni required versus what I required of myself to obtain my degree. And I'd silently fume, "Yes, that's the whole point; I don't CARE what my uni requires, I care what *I* feel *I* need to do to get the intrinsic worth out of this phase of my education that I feel I need to get to meet not only career goals, but personal goals." He resented the time it took me to complete my thesis, and treated all my work on my thesis as an "interruption" to our relationship, rather than PART of our relationship since at the time it was my passion. He also could not understand my pursuing something that promised no financial reward in the end.

 

For a long time after we broke up (4 years ago now), I felt terrible for having "ruined" our relationship with my "impractical" pursuits. But in the past year or so, I've begun to have a change of attitude. I feel increasingly like I need to accept the reality that this capacity for hard work to achieve a personal goal is a fact of who I am; it's an asset that like most assets has its drawbacks, but to deny that this is just part of the GreenCove package is like denying that an elephant takes up a lot of space in a living room.

 

The reason I write this out is because my life has led me to some exciting new opportunities to combine two things about which I am VERY passionate, in both a potentially lucrative AND artistically creative way. To achieve this, however, I'm going to have to work hard, not just show up to work and punch in my time card, but really INVEST time and energy above and beyond what is technically "required" of me by any outside entity. I'm so excited, and feel alive again in a way I've not felt since I moved across the country to be here, and I want nothing more than to just buckle down and work.

 

But I'm terrified of how my current boyfriend will take this. I shared my fears somewhat with him, and he insists that he understands, but when I told him last night, for instance, that this weekend in addition to my personal training session early Saturday morning I'm also going to have at least one rehearsal for which I will have to prepare, and I was asked to write up a short article for a widely-read online magazine, he sounded disappointed.

 

And though I tried not to react to his disappointment, inwardly I felt really anxious and defensive at the same time. I felt like, why do I have to be available to spend time with him for the ENTIRE weekend? Why should he feel he's entitled to that from me? I'm an ambitious person who likes to achieve, and I'm also a loyal and loving person who helps my boyfriend, and has been unfailingly attentive to him throughout our relationship.

 

Am I being unreasonable for feeling that way? I feel like in my previous two relationships I relinquished a lot of personal goals to accommodate my partners; I squelched my passion and drive; with the result that now, at 34, I feel like I could be MUCH further ahead in my life and career if I'd not wasted time giving so much to two ultimately selfish men who gave not nearly as much in return. I feel like I don't WANT to have to apologize for or squelch my passion and drive; I want a partner who EMBRACES it. And I'm not sure if N, my current partner, really does. I don't think he's seen yet, though, just how tenacious and driven I can be, and I'm afraid he'll make me miserable the next few months being always like a disappointed eeyore, standing by sulkily because suddenly he's not the center of everything in my world.

 

Is that horrible that I feel that way? How can I be a good partner while also being true to myself? I feel like these two pieces of my life--my passion and will to excel at these opportunities that have landed in my lap, and my partner--are at odds with each other...and I feel it shouldn't have to be that way. My partner CLAIMS it's not like that, but I'm not sure I should believe him, because I don't FEEL that from him.

[rhett89]

I've always known this about myself, but I feel like I'm coming to terms with it in a new, more realistic way: I love to excel. And when I have opportunity to become involved in something I'm really passionate about or fascinated by, I am capable of exerting tremendous amounts of drive and discipline to become as knowledgeable as I can about it.

 

When I'm passionate about something, I work hard to excel at it not because it's what is required of me (by an employer, say, or educational institution or program), but because it's what I require of myself. It's my own bar that I must rise to meet.

 

In the past, this capability of mine to work hard for the intrinsic reward of the knowledge and proficiency in something I'm passionate about has posed a challenge in my relationships. My first serious boyfriend (the one that brought me to LS initially) NEVER understood my drive, felt threatened by it, did not accept it, and ultimately that played into our relationship's demise. He could understand, for instance, that to obtain my master's degree I had to write a thesis as that was "required" by my university. BUT, he could not understand why, when the university only required a 35-page thesis, I felt compelled to immerse myself in research to produce a thesis that was, in depth of inquiry and research and length, the equivalent of a doctoral dissertation. He claimed at times that he understood, but I never felt that he did, because he'd say things a lot about the discrepancy between what the uni required versus what I required of myself to obtain my degree. And I'd silently fume, "Yes, that's the whole point; I don't CARE what my uni requires, I care what *I* feel *I* need to do to get the intrinsic worth out of this phase of my education that I feel I need to get to meet not only career goals, but personal goals." He resented the time it took me to complete my thesis, and treated all my work on my thesis as an "interruption" to our relationship, rather than PART of our relationship since at the time it was my passion. He also could not understand my pursuing something that promised no financial reward in the end.

 

For a long time after we broke up (4 years ago now), I felt terrible for having "ruined" our relationship with my "impractical" pursuits. But in the past year or so, I've begun to have a change of attitude. I feel increasingly like I need to accept the reality that this capacity for hard work to achieve a personal goal is a fact of who I am; it's an asset that like most assets has its drawbacks, but to deny that this is just part of the GreenCove package is like denying that an elephant takes up a lot of space in a living room.

 

The reason I write this out is because my life has led me to some exciting new opportunities to combine two things about which I am VERY passionate, in both a potentially lucrative AND artistically creative way. To achieve this, however, I'm going to have to work hard, not just show up to work and punch in my time card, but really INVEST time and energy above and beyond what is technically "required" of me by any outside entity. I'm so excited, and feel alive again in a way I've not felt since I moved across the country to be here, and I want nothing more than to just buckle down and work.

 

But I'm terrified of how my current boyfriend will take this. I shared my fears somewhat with him, and he insists that he understands, but when I told him last night, for instance, that this weekend in addition to my personal training session early Saturday morning I'm also going to have at least one rehearsal for which I will have to prepare, and I was asked to write up a short article for a widely-read online magazine, he sounded disappointed.

 

And though I tried not to react to his disappointment, inwardly I felt really anxious and defensive at the same time. I felt like, why do I have to be available to spend time with him for the ENTIRE weekend? Why should he feel he's entitled to that from me? I'm an ambitious person who likes to achieve, and I'm also a loyal and loving person who helps my boyfriend, and has been unfailingly attentive to him throughout our relationship.

 

Am I being unreasonable for feeling that way? I feel like in my previous two relationships I relinquished a lot of personal goals to accommodate my partners; I squelched my passion and drive; with the result that now, at 34, I feel like I could be MUCH further ahead in my life and career if I'd not wasted time giving so much to two ultimately selfish men who gave not nearly as much in return. I feel like I don't WANT to have to apologize for or squelch my passion and drive; I want a partner who EMBRACES it. And I'm not sure if N, my current partner, really does. I don't think he's seen yet, though, just how tenacious and driven I can be, and I'm afraid he'll make me miserable the next few months being always like a disappointed eeyore, standing by sulkily because suddenly he's not the center of everything in my world.

 

Is that horrible that I feel that way? How can I be a good partner while also being true to myself? I feel like these two pieces of my life--my passion and will to excel at these opportunities that have landed in my lap, and my partner--are at odds with each other...and I feel it shouldn't have to be that way. My partner CLAIMS it's not like that, but I'm not sure I should believe him, because I don't FEEL that from him.

 

 

 

This is a very interesting situation, and not unlike one that I am in currently. My W is a classic Type A overachiever. Earned two college degrees, quickly earned a leadership role at her previous job, got bored, took a job in a different city and has worked her way up the ladder to the VP level. While I do not know that she has ever articulated this the way you have, she also has an intrinsic motor that REQUIRES her to push further and further ahead with her career. I say these things only to give you the perspective of the person on the other side . . .

 

For me, so many of the characteristics she has that make her successful are the ones that make it difficult/frustrating for me. Sometimes it is difficult for me to understand why anyone would choose a life where they work 11 hours, come home and spend 1 hour with their children, then work after the kids are in bed (from home) until they themselves go to bed. Sure, it's understandable that this is something that needs to happen periodically, but this is a regular occurrence.

 

I suspect that you and she are wired extremely similarly.

 

While I will not say that this has ever jeopardized our marriage, it has certainly affected our marriage. I have also thought of myself as a very independent person, who needed very little in return to be happy in my relationship. I feel like I am one who appreciates and understands achievement, high expectations of one's self and the commitment it takes to reach one's minimum expectations.

 

That said . . .

 

As the "other half" of the equation, there is an opportunity cost for professional achievement, and there are times when I question the balance we have in our lives as a result of her career. More specifically, I question what I feel is a lack of balance. If you're anything like my wife, what you will ultimately find is that in order to satisfy your personal expectations, you will feel conflicted and start to tell your SO, "Either I can do my job like this, or I have to quit because I cannot do it any other way."

 

And there's the rub.

 

You begin to resent him because he is pushing back on something you believe in. He resents you for "choosing" career over him.

 

I don't know that I have an answer,but my advice is to be 100% open about what you expect of yourself and what you know it will take to do the job the way you think it will need to be done. Explain WHY you feel the need to do it this way, then listen to his feelings. I assume he is a reasonable guy and, as a result, he will likely have some observations to share about how you can manage your job differently and still achieve your goals. Listen to him. Consider what he says and understand that there are many, many models to be successful, productive and still have a balance in your life. Your way, while the way you best understand, is likely not the ONLY way.

 

Good luck with this.

[Els]

The best and ideal way would be to have a partner who shares that sort of zealous passion and commitment for his job. That way you would both understand each other in this aspect, and would both probably not have that much free time to want to spend with the other person anyway.

 

However, we don't live in an ideal world. If your partner isn't on the same page as you re: career goals and ambition, there really only exist two healthy solutions. Compromise, or, if it's too important to you to compromise, leave and seek the sort of partner in the above paragraph instead.

[denise_xo]

I am similarly inclined and sympathise with what you express in your post. Unfortunately, I don't have any great advice to give you. My husband has been extremely patient with me, a patience which is partially fueled by me being the bread winner. I am trying again these days to bring more balance into my life, but it doesn't come natural.

 

If I were to start all over again, I think I may have chosen work over relationship, period - or as Elswyth suggests, have been more conscious of finding a partner with the same attitude.

[sally4sara]

I think you are one of those people with an amazing capacity for greatness. As a person trying to start a business from her home, I'd love to have more of the discipline and focus you have. I've thrown myself into my work for the smaller goals that lead to the larger end result of this endeavor and I felt really good for the accomplished feeling it gives. Whatever your field of choice is, I can identify with what you get out of it even if it is completely different from my own (design). Taking the base materials and manipulating them into a finished vision is very satisfying to me. I look at the end result and I feel pride. Its that "I did THAT" feeling and I think I understand what you get out of it.

However, when it comes to a capacity for greatness, I don't think it is something that is limited to a tangible end result for everyone. And this is where the disconnect comes in. Interpersonal relationships can also be an accomplishment of greatness too. But the same application of your time and focus won't always achieve that vision into reality end as you first saw it or at the rate you try to make it happen. People are not so predictable as base material goes. And the manipulation of them as base material can cause much harm to them if they don't enjoy the vision as you see it or wish to have that end result WHEN you want to see it completed.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that drive for greatness through focus and effort to a defined result isn't something you can have complete control of and I wonder if that is why you don't see people and your connection with them as

 

"something (or someone) I'm really passionate about or fascinated by, I am capable of exerting tremendous amounts of drive and discipline to become as knowledgeable as I can about it (them as a person or the JOURNEY you can have through life with them)".

 

Say you marry and decide to have a baby with this person, making this end result (a family) suddenly involve two other people. Now three people and their visions will sometimes compete.

 

I remember preparing for a large and very necessary step in my own business endeavor and a deadline situation. At one point I was really not available to my husband and son for a stretch of two weeks like I typically am. And it caused some small arguments and frustrations. I was letting things I was relied on to do fall to the side and it made them feel less important. The focus and dedication I usually had for their needs was suddenly not being applied in a way that made THEM (as base material in my life) feel that THEY were not worth my time, focus and energy. And they are very important to me.

 

So it comes down to deciding what is important to you to invest in. It is what you decide to be great at and living up to it. If you want a relationship that is focused on greatness or if you want a more academic way of feeling driven to greatness. Its a balancing act if you really want both. And if you don't feel as fulfilled by interpersonal relationships as a way to achieve greatness, be honest with yourself about that and accept that you might have to forgo some of one for the other. If you want relationships with people tho, you have to be passionate about them and time with them as well if they're ever going to be a great accomplishment.

[NoLongerSad]

GreenCove,

 

not to t/j, but it kind of sounds like you might benefit from looking into a couple of related concepts, "Pareto's Principle" (also known as the "80/20" rule) and "diminishing returns/diminishing returns to scale."

 

Basically Pareto or the 80/20 rule (a rule of thumb actually not a law of nature of any kind) states that 80% of our results come from 20% of our efforts. The last 20% of the results come from 80% of our efforts. The inference being that much of the time it makes no sense to bother with that last 20% because the time/effort/stress of getting that last 20% could be more efficiently devoted to other pursuits.

 

Similarly the concept of "diminishing returns" or "diminishing returns to scale" says that at a certain point it makes no real sense to continue pursuing excellence or perfection. That happens to be generally true for most of life's pursuits. No, not if you are doing brain surgery, or piloting an aircraft, because one mistake can have catastrophic results.

 

So let's modify it and say that wherever a less than perfect outcome will not have catastrophically bad results, we might want to see if the 80/20 rule applies. Or diminishing returns, it's pretty much the same concept stated in different language.

 

An example would be test-taking. You might have a 20 problem quiz and get hung up on one problem. Insisting on perfection might find you getting stuck on that one problem to the detriment of your overall results, or causing yourself undue mental stress. A more balanced approach might find you deciding to skip that difficult problem or two, and not stress over it. Thus you get your 90 or 95% and generally speaking that's going to be good enough for all intents and purposes.

 

Your master's thesis is actually a good example of this principle. While you couch what you did as "striving for excellence," by another perspective, it was a grossly inefficient use of your time and efforts. The reason you don't put Ph.D. level time, effort, work into a master's thesis is because you don't get an adequate return on that investment--you don't get a PhD and the highest grade you can get is 100% . If you've put in the effort to get 100% or an "A" (whatever is the highest grade) on your master's thesis than doubling the effort really means you have wasted that additional effort.

 

The same might be said of relationships. Wasting time in relationships that aren't going anywhere doesn't mean you are striving for excellence, it could simply mean you are wasting your time.

 

Striving for excellence is a very admirable goal. However, don't use that mantra as a justification for being inefficient with your available time, energy, money, emotions, and other resources. We all have a limited amount of resources to bring to our lives, and we must make choices about how we "spend" these resources. In the real, adult world, we don't get a cookie just because we put in the hard effort. It is the results achieved that count.

[NoLongerSad]

For me, so many of the characteristics she has that make her successful are the ones that make it difficult/frustrating for me. Sometimes it is difficult for me to understand why anyone would choose a life where they work 11 hours, come home and spend 1 hour with their children, then work after the kids are in bed (from home) until they themselves go to bed. Sure, it's understandable that this is something that needs to happen periodically, but this is a regular occurrence.

 

This is not meant to be personal, but what you describe is quite common for both men and women on the "career grind." However with the exception of perhaps occasional high priority project where a real "push" has to be made over a limited time period, constantly working the way your wife does (and many other people do, so it's not just your wife by any means) is often--but not always--an indicator of a deficiency of some kind in time management skills.

 

Sometimes of course the inefficiency is a function of the organization that one is embedded in and is therefore difficult to escape.

 

But the hyper-achievers in our society, and in any society, are characterized not simply by their willingness and ability to "work long hours." On the contrary, they are characterized by their extremely high level of efficiency.

 

If family life is being sacrificed at the altar of career, and that is not a choice willingly being made, then what can be done to work more efficiently?

 

I think you will find that many people feel the need to be constantly "busy" for purely psychological reasons--again, men and women.

[Zapbasket]

GreenCove,

 

not to t/j, but it kind of sounds like you might benefit from looking into a couple of related concepts, "Pareto's Principle" (also known as the "80/20" rule) and "diminishing returns/diminishing returns to scale."

 

Basically Pareto or the 80/20 rule (a rule of thumb actually not a law of nature of any kind) states that 80% of our results come from 20% of our efforts. The last 20% of the results come from 80% of our efforts. The inference being that much of the time it makes no sense to bother with that last 20% because the time/effort/stress of getting that last 20% could be more efficiently devoted to other pursuits.

 

Similarly the concept of "diminishing returns" or "diminishing returns to scale" says that at a certain point it makes no real sense to continue pursuing excellence or perfection. That happens to be generally true for most of life's pursuits. No, not if you are doing brain surgery, or piloting an aircraft, because one mistake can have catastrophic results.

 

So let's modify it and say that wherever a less than perfect outcome will not have catastrophically bad results, we might want to see if the 80/20 rule applies. Or diminishing returns, it's pretty much the same concept stated in different language.

 

An example would be test-taking. You might have a 20 problem quiz and get hung up on one problem. Insisting on perfection might find you getting stuck on that one problem to the detriment of your overall results, or causing yourself undue mental stress. A more balanced approach might find you deciding to skip that difficult problem or two, and not stress over it. Thus you get your 90 or 95% and generally speaking that's going to be good enough for all intents and purposes.

 

Your master's thesis is actually a good example of this principle. While you couch what you did as "striving for excellence," by another perspective, it was a grossly inefficient use of your time and efforts. The reason you don't put Ph.D. level time, effort, work into a master's thesis is because you don't get an adequate return on that investment--you don't get a PhD and the highest grade you can get is 100% . If you've put in the effort to get 100% or an "A" (whatever is the highest grade) on your master's thesis than doubling the effort really means you have wasted that additional effort.

 

The same might be said of relationships. Wasting time in relationships that aren't going anywhere doesn't mean you are striving for excellence, it could simply mean you are wasting your time.

 

Striving for excellence is a very admirable goal. However, don't use that mantra as a justification for being inefficient with your available time, energy, money, emotions, and other resources. We all have a limited amount of resources to bring to our lives, and we must make choices about how we "spend" these resources. In the real, adult world, we don't get a cookie just because we put in the hard effort. It is the results achieved that count.

 

There are lots of things in your post that I want to respond to. For now I'm just going to address the thesis. It wasn't striving for excellence that drove me to write a dissertation when I could have passed my program with a slight paper. And I wasn't looking for anyone's approval. It was my way of answering certain questions I had about what was important to me regarding the field in which I was pursuing graduate study, and whether and where I saw myself ultimately as a player in that field. And through the hard work on that thesis, I discovered I did not want to continue on to the Ph.D. And I also discovered the reasons why and was able to articulate them. So really, I SAVED myself the additional 5+ years of Ph.D. in this discipline, and was able to proceed with my life confident that I made a good decision in not continuing to the Ph.D.

 

And I tried to explain that to my then-partner. I told him I didn't want to drag him through my pursuit of a Ph.D. I was not sure I wanted. I told him I had some ambivalence about it and working on my thesis with this intensity and focus enabled me to address my ambivalence so that I would be in a clear position to make a decision that was right for me career-wise and therefore good for us both future-wise. ANd he never understood. All he understood was that the university required one year and 35 pages and I took 2 years and 180 pages.

 

And that's the thing. To my mind, sometimes pursuits do not achieve "results" that others would necessarily recognize as such. But that doesn't make those pursuits worthless, in my opinion, at least.

 

Regarding Pareto's Principle, I agree that most of the time that is the case. I took a long time to learn that EVERYTHING doesn't have to be perfect, or the best, that "good enough" is most of the time "good enough." But I'm training in a sport and returning to training in an artistic pursuit that DEMAND "perfection" in that there is a very limited time interval in which very intricate motions must occur, and in the case of the sport, if you're sloppy, you could injure yourself or others; in the case of the artistic pursuit, if you're sloppy, it's a bad performance. And for me, that's part of the seduction of these pursuits--the fact that they ARE, in fact, pursuits that demand a very high level of precision and excellence. The results that could be achieved, discounting all the intrinsic rewards, are, in both cases for me, financial. But much dedication is required to get there...and my issue is, how can you give the necessary dedication and still do your part to build a relationship that BOTH partners are happy with?

[Zapbasket]

This is a very interesting situation, and not unlike one that I am in currently. My W is a classic Type A overachiever. Earned two college degrees, quickly earned a leadership role at her previous job, got bored, took a job in a different city and has worked her way up the ladder to the VP level. While I do not know that she has ever articulated this the way you have, she also has an intrinsic motor that REQUIRES her to push further and further ahead with her career. I say these things only to give you the perspective of the person on the other side . . .

 

For me, so many of the characteristics she has that make her successful are the ones that make it difficult/frustrating for me. Sometimes it is difficult for me to understand why anyone would choose a life where they work 11 hours, come home and spend 1 hour with their children, then work after the kids are in bed (from home) until they themselves go to bed. Sure, it's understandable that this is something that needs to happen periodically, but this is a regular occurrence.

 

I suspect that you and she are wired extremely similarly.

 

While I will not say that this has ever jeopardized our marriage, it has certainly affected our marriage. I have also thought of myself as a very independent person, who needed very little in return to be happy in my relationship. I feel like I am one who appreciates and understands achievement, high expectations of one's self and the commitment it takes to reach one's minimum expectations.

 

That said . . .

 

As the "other half" of the equation, there is an opportunity cost for professional achievement, and there are times when I question the balance we have in our lives as a result of her career. More specifically, I question what I feel is a lack of balance. If you're anything like my wife, what you will ultimately find is that in order to satisfy your personal expectations, you will feel conflicted and start to tell your SO, "Either I can do my job like this, or I have to quit because I cannot do it any other way."

 

And there's the rub.

 

You begin to resent him because he is pushing back on something you believe in. He resents you for "choosing" career over him.

 

I don't know that I have an answer,but my advice is to be 100% open about what you expect of yourself and what you know it will take to do the job the way you think it will need to be done. Explain WHY you feel the need to do it this way, then listen to his feelings. I assume he is a reasonable guy and, as a result, he will likely have some observations to share about how you can manage your job differently and still achieve your goals. Listen to him. Consider what he says and understand that there are many, many models to be successful, productive and still have a balance in your life. Your way, while the way you best understand, is likely not the ONLY way.

 

Good luck with this.

 

Thanks so much for your input. I can just imagine how tough it must be for your wife to be gone from the home so much. Just as it is difficult for wives when their husbands work long hours. I don't intend to turn this into a gender discussion, but I can't help noticing that it's pretty standard, in middle class homes, for the husband to work in law or finance and have 12-hour work days, come home and see the kids for maybe an hour, and then have to do some follow-up emailing for work before he goes to bed. Yet that is often unquestioned; after all, it's those long hours at the office that are enabling the family to live in a nice suburban home, etc. So no one complains.

 

I'm not criticizing you, or saying YOU do this; I just find it interesting that it seems when women choose to work long hours climbing the corporate ladder, others read it much more as a personal choice rather than something she "had" or was "expected" to do. I imagine her work helps uphold your family's lifestyle?

 

You say her long work hours have not jeopardized your marriage. How do you keep that internal balance in response to the imbalance in her home life versus her work life? Why does it NOT jeopardize your marriage?

[Zapbasket]

I think you are one of those people with an amazing capacity for greatness. As a person trying to start a business from her home, I'd love to have more of the discipline and focus you have. I've thrown myself into my work for the smaller goals that lead to the larger end result of this endeavor and I felt really good for the accomplished feeling it gives. Whatever your field of choice is, I can identify with what you get out of it even if it is completely different from my own (design). Taking the base materials and manipulating them into a finished vision is very satisfying to me. I look at the end result and I feel pride. Its that "I did THAT" feeling and I think I understand what you get out of it.

However, when it comes to a capacity for greatness, I don't think it is something that is limited to a tangible end result for everyone. And this is where the disconnect comes in. Interpersonal relationships can also be an accomplishment of greatness too. But the same application of your time and focus won't always achieve that vision into reality end as you first saw it or at the rate you try to make it happen. People are not so predictable as base material goes. And the manipulation of them as base material can cause much harm to them if they don't enjoy the vision as you see it or wish to have that end result WHEN you want to see it completed.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that drive for greatness through focus and effort to a defined result isn't something you can have complete control of and I wonder if that is why you don't see people and your connection with them as

 

"something (or someone) I'm really passionate about or fascinated by, I am capable of exerting tremendous amounts of drive and discipline to become as knowledgeable as I can about it (them as a person or the JOURNEY you can have through life with them)".

 

Say you marry and decide to have a baby with this person, making this end result (a family) suddenly involve two other people. Now three people and their visions will sometimes compete.

 

I remember preparing for a large and very necessary step in my own business endeavor and a deadline situation. At one point I was really not available to my husband and son for a stretch of two weeks like I typically am. And it caused some small arguments and frustrations. I was letting things I was relied on to do fall to the side and it made them feel less important. The focus and dedication I usually had for their needs was suddenly not being applied in a way that made THEM (as base material in my life) feel that THEY were not worth my time, focus and energy. And they are very important to me.

 

So it comes down to deciding what is important to you to invest in. It is what you decide to be great at and living up to it. If you want a relationship that is focused on greatness or if you want a more academic way of feeling driven to greatness. Its a balancing act if you really want both. And if you don't feel as fulfilled by interpersonal relationships as a way to achieve greatness, be honest with yourself about that and accept that you might have to forgo some of one for the other. If you want relationships with people tho, you have to be passionate about them and time with them as well if they're ever going to be a great accomplishment.

 

What you said really struck a chord with me. I have in the past made the mistake of trying to make interpersonal relationships these great creative endeavors...only to learn that no one likes to be a character in a story I narrated. And so now I keep content with trying to be the best, most fair person I can be in relationships, someone others can count on, and also to choose people who embrace me for who I am, and let me be me the same way I let them be them. And my creative endeavors now I relegate to "base materials," as you so aptly call them, like my music and the sport I am pursuing professionally.

 

Your mention of those two weeks when you weren't there for your husband and son the way you usually are made me cringe a little. My first thought was, why couldn't especially your husband just pick up the slack for a few weeks and keep things running? You should be able to step away from your family role every once and a while in the service of getting a business goal off the ground, and your spouse should support you in that. Two weeks is not a long time. I mean, am I unreasonable for feeling that way?

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't understand why a career passion and a loving relationship need to be mutually exclusive. I very much want an intimate relationship with someone who works to "get" me just as I work to "get" him, a relationship that is mutually supportive and full of love and devotion. But I can't "make" that happen; I can only be the best I can when a relationship prospect comes my way. And to my mind, part of that is being real about who I am...and who I am is someone who has a lot of passions and likes to challenge myself to create interesting things with the "base materials" various disciplines / fields of study provide. Is there no way I can find a man who would embrace that? Is that attribute really antithetical to a relationship?

[sally4sara]

What you said really struck a chord with me. I have in the past made the mistake of trying to make interpersonal relationships these great creative endeavors...only to learn that no one likes to be a character in a story I narrated. And so now I keep content with trying to be the best, most fair person I can be in relationships, someone others can count on, and also to choose people who embrace me for who I am, and let me be me the same way I let them be them. And my creative endeavors now I relegate to "base materials," as you so aptly call them, like my music and the sport I am pursuing professionally.

 

Your mention of those two weeks when you weren't there for your husband and son the way you usually are made me cringe a little. My first thought was, why couldn't especially your husband just pick up the slack for a few weeks and keep things running? You should be able to step away from your family role every once and a while in the service of getting a business goal off the ground, and your spouse should support you in that. Two weeks is not a long time. I mean, am I unreasonable for feeling that way?

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't understand why a career passion and a loving relationship need to be mutually exclusive. I very much want an intimate relationship with someone who works to "get" me just as I work to "get" him, a relationship that is mutually supportive and full of love and devotion. But I can't "make" that happen; I can only be the best I can when a relationship prospect comes my way. And to my mind, part of that is being real about who I am...and who I am is someone who has a lot of passions and likes to challenge myself to create interesting things with the "base materials" various disciplines / fields of study provide. Is there no way I can find a man who would embrace that? Is that attribute really antithetical to a relationship?

 

For me to pursue my goal, my husband took a job with many demands for the better pay to offset the lower income/initial investment it required. He did compensate me in those two weeks.

 

A partnership is only a good one when it is backed with what motivates the choices made within it in the first place. I became much more focused on the work I was doing because it was not for a boss or superior's goal. I knew the sacrifice my husband made for me and I threw myself into the work because I wanted him to feel his part was worth choosing. It was good intentions; I couldn't accept anything less than success in the face of his very selfless act. In doing so, I unwittingly was removing part of his motivation; the positive feedback he felt from the moments when I focused my full attention on him.

The peaceful moments after my son goes to bed. The pride he feels in having me by his side in social situations. He picked up the slack around the house and put in the time on helping my son with homework beyond those subjects he outshines myself on.

With my son, he has his own set of expectations (with household chores and school work) we put on him. He feels good about meeting them because he sees us as a working team; a unit he is a part of. In return, I motivate him by typically setting aside about an hour when he comes home from school to chat about his day and get him organized for his homework. We also in the past couple of years have shared time during the preparation of dinner because he will need to know how to cook for himself eventually. I make it as much like chemistry as possible for him to enjoy and identify with it.

The angst set in with them both and they began to squabble a bit. It put a different tone on our home life and the positive re-enforcement took a dive. It wasn't the end of the world and blew over quickly, but it did let me know I was managing my time poorly. I realized I do better by not focusing so intently on one aspect of my life even if it must take a little longer to finish another area.

 

Its the little things that matter when it come to people. Its the awesome end result when it comes to our more tangible goals. Your music won't gripe if you focus on your sport. Your sport won't feel rejected when you focus more on your music. The people in your life may well want you to succeed in both, but they only want that for you because of the reasons you give them to value you in the first place. Take those reasons away and having your back isn't as rewarding to them. Its human nature.