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Cheating is NOT the only form of betrayal


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Im reading all of the judgments here about those who have affairs. What I dont hear anyone saying (with the exception of a few) is that it is a form of betrayal for a spouse to withhold sex, love, and affection when both have entered into a marital contract, which by its very nature people enter into because of the above-stated reasons. Sure, its fine for the spouse who refuses or is incapable of meeting the needs of his/her W or H, but OMG, its a horrible selfish disgusting person who engages in an affair. Forget all extenuating circumstances. Do readers here really think that getting a divorce is that easy, or even always the best answer? Timing is truly an issue when it comes to divorce and needs to be considered as well. I have noticed that there are some posters on here that are so damaged/hurt/wounded that all they can do is bash and judge others. Simple right or wrong thinking. People like that don't help anyone with their opinions. If you are trying to answer posts from that headspace, all you are doing is projecting your own s--t onto others. Having said that, if you have NON-JUDGMENTAL opinions or thoughts on this, then please do respond.

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No it is not the only form of betrayal but it is one of the worst and usually causes severe emotional trauma that takes years to get over. People who have affairs deserve to be judged and it is extremely selfish. Otherwise people would have no problem broadcasting it to the world. Your non judgmental cop out is only excuse to justify your actions and I doubt you will get many to agree with you except those who have cheated.

 

I am sorry you were neglected and treated poorly but that doesn't excuse an affair. I lose a lot of respect for someone who does that to their SO.

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LOL, I havent had an affair, but thanks for proving my point about the judgmental people on this board. You just couldnt wait to jump at another horrible awful person. Have I thought about it? Yes, so go ahead and judge me for that. But no hon, I have not cheated. My husband has in fact, betrayed me. THAT is my point.

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I agree that withholding of sex in a relationship is very damaging and as a matter of fact there are quite a few threads from people who find themselves in "sexless" marriages or "low sex" marriages.

 

The added elements in infidelity are 1) involvement of a third party and 2) deceit. So infidelity situations can be much more complex and damaging in more dimensions of the relationship.

 

Having said that, it is my suspicion that many of the "sexless" marriages actually involve the withholding spouse either carrying on an actual affair or wanting to, which provides at least a partial explanation for the sex being cut off. Not always of course. But I think in a lot of cases.

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It is still a form of betrayal though and cheaters come up with a million excuses. Witholding love and affection are very vague terms.

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Well its your life and you will do what you want but don't expect people not to judge you for it. Everybody judges. I'm glad you haven't had an affair and I hope you don't because I think you will regret it eventually. I don't think you are a horrible person and it seems like you have good reason for feeling betrayed. Have you told your husband that you feel this way?

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It is still a form of betrayal though and cheaters come up with a million excuses. Witholding love and affection are very vague terms.

 

 

I have not met or read about a cheater who did not come up with a brilliant, elaborate rationalization and justification of why they did it :rolleyes:. So, um yeah, unless the OP wants to suggest that everybody who got cheated on deserved it, the whole thread is meaningless.

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Feelin Frisky

Trust is the central issue of betrayal. It's of course pretty easy to see how cheating betrays a trust. But in reality there's a lot more to trust. And when one places trust in someone else and that trust is a mistake, a person comes to question themselves. That's why it's so entangling. People talk a lot about intimacy here on LS but it often seems to be taken that intimacy is physical closeness. To me it's not as much that as it is trusting that someone is who you think they are and that freedom exists to let your real self be known safely. It hurts in the extreme, for instance, if I choose to disclose something deeply personal to a lover and then have her change faces at another time and use that disclosure against me. I'm called to bash myself for falling for her appearance of trustworthiness. This would not be a case of "cheating" but it is a case of betrayal.

 

Example: coming to a place where you trust each other enough to disclose former relationships over issues like children. You think it's just about your stance on children. Then some time goes by and the biotch accuses you of still loving the former SO (just because you didn't seem to hate her in your open and close conversation). This makes you feel that you can't be you with this person because she'll turn anything honest you say about your life and your choices into grounds for contentiousness. Should we expect to never be able to talk about ourselves and how we've evolved in our character? It would be disheartening to assume so. People do it but it's less than ideal.

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Im reading all of the judgments here about those who have affairs. What I dont hear anyone saying (with the exception of a few) is that it is a form of betrayal for a spouse to withhold sex, love, and affection when both have entered into a marital contract, which by its very nature people enter into because of the above-stated reasons. Sure, its fine for the spouse who refuses or is incapable of meeting the needs of his/her W or H, but OMG, its a horrible selfish disgusting person who engages in an affair. Forget all extenuating circumstances. Do readers here really think that getting a divorce is that easy, or even always the best answer? Timing is truly an issue when it comes to divorce and needs to be considered as well. I have noticed that there are some posters on here that are so damaged/hurt/wounded that all they can do is bash and judge others. Simple right or wrong thinking. People like that don't help anyone with their opinions. If you are trying to answer posts from that headspace, all you are doing is projecting your own s--t onto others. Having said that, if you have NON-JUDGMENTAL opinions or thoughts on this, then please do respond.

 

I believe this totally. I've seen too many friends who were betrayed by their spouse in non-cheating ways and those betrayals hurt them just as much if not more then my husband's affair betrayal hurt me.

 

I've seen some pretty harsh emotional damage that sexless marriages can cause. I've seen really bad damage that drinking betrayals, drugs, etc can cause. Every situation is different. I don't think an affair is any worse or any better then a number of different betrayals.

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TB,

I absolutely believe there are situations where cheating is justified. For example:

1. Having a spouse who is choosing to withhold sex when (not talking about serious illness here - that is a different matter)

2. You have children and don't want to have your access to them limited by divorce and

3. You have attempted to resolve the sexual issues and they simply are unable/unwilling to

 

In that situation I actually think it is ok. The "least of all evils".

 

If you can afford it financially - then I think you should be upfront and let them know you intend to take a love and will be discreet but not secretive about it. In the "afford it" scenario you get an apartment and/or reach a custody agreement that YOU can live with. I don't think you should have to choose between celibacy and loss of parental interaction....

 

 

 

 

Im reading all of the judgments here about those who have affairs. What I dont hear anyone saying (with the exception of a few) is that it is a form of betrayal for a spouse to withhold sex, love, and affection when both have entered into a marital contract, which by its very nature people enter into because of the above-stated reasons. Sure, its fine for the spouse who refuses or is incapable of meeting the needs of his/her W or H, but OMG, its a horrible selfish disgusting person who engages in an affair. Forget all extenuating circumstances. Do readers here really think that getting a divorce is that easy, or even always the best answer? Timing is truly an issue when it comes to divorce and needs to be considered as well. I have noticed that there are some posters on here that are so damaged/hurt/wounded that all they can do is bash and judge others. Simple right or wrong thinking. People like that don't help anyone with their opinions. If you are trying to answer posts from that headspace, all you are doing is projecting your own s--t onto others. Having said that, if you have NON-JUDGMENTAL opinions or thoughts on this, then please do respond.
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Thank you cat lady. I'm so glad at least one person so far can see this. IN answer to someone who asked if I have told my husband how I feel, the answer is a big fat yes. Repeatedly. In heart to heart conversations. Everything from reasonable mature discussions to me getting angry to me practically begging him to help so we can remain married. The responses are usually the same. He listens and gets defensive or sometimes he hears me and promises to change. It never lasts and sometimes there is no change whatsoever. Marriage is a two way street, but if one partner is willing to do whatever it takes and the other isnt, then what? Regarding the term "withholding" I am talking about the most basic aspects of a man/woman relationship being missing. Holding hands, making out, passionate kisses here and there, showing desire, bringing flowers or random acts of kindness/romance. Sex is almost non existant and when it does exist it is quite bluntly, not satisfying. And yes, I have told him this as well, in a manner that I was hoping would not be threatening. I wont get graphic here, but lets just say my needs are not a priority, and foreplay is a thing of the very far past.

He cant explain why he doesnt want to have sex, he does say he loves me and is attracted to me, and he doesnt think we need counseling. He talks about changes he will make, help he will get, etc. etc. but nothing changes. He keeps everything in the future: when things improve financially, when there is less stress, when the kids are sleeping through the night, when we can get away alone together, blah blah blah. He also is totally closed to my seeking sexual gratification elsewhere (ie I will get my needs met elsewhere so the pressure is off of you and we can stay together) So I guess for him its okay that I am unwillingly unsatisfied and close to celibate, because he cant figure his s--- out. This person I married is a kind and gentle man, but he doesn't seem to get how to be a giving partner, even with gentle and clear directions from the wife he states he wants to please. Something has got to give. Oh, and we have two small children and finances are quite tight right now so while divorce may in fact be imminent, it is not an attractive option at present. Not to mention the fact that I do love him and I dont want to hurt him, but to be honest, I am tired of being the one hurting.

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Mem, I just read your response after I posted my most recent response. Thank you for understanding. Those are my thoughts as well. In case it isnt obvious from my posts, this is all so foreign to me, ie. cheating on a trusted partner. I have had a few serious relationships in my life and i have never cheated, even through hard times, and there were hard times. I do not take this lightly. But the thought of breaking up this family is heartbreaking and will cause such hardship for all concerned. I have tried to do this the right way, but this has been an an ongoing issue for over a decade now. TO be honest, I cant figure out how ANYONE who loves their partner would be okay with not making any effort to gratify their partner or even have some type of intimacy with them. I feel that he is being incredibly selfish to want me to stay married, without making ANY efforts to treat me like a beloved wife and he is unwilling to even consider that I take a misteress (a little humor there). One of the reasons I miss the sex so much, isnt just because of the physical gratification, it is because its necessary and so important to the intimacy and connection between marital partners. I chose him for sex, I didnt want a different partner, thats why I married him and now, more importantly, he is the father of my children. But he is refusing to participate. Now I feel like he is just my coparent and room mate. He doesn't seem to get that one either :(

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TinkerBell, do you completely understand the reasons for his lack of libido and affection? First off, NONE of the reasons you gave are an excuse for infidelity, but could be grounds for divorce. But IMO you should make sure that there is not a physiological reason for his problems. If, for example a woman is having hormonal problems or early menopause she will lose interest in sex, the same goes for the man, maybe he is experiencing ED and doesn't want to appear less "manly", and so isn't telling you. There are many possible reasons for his loss of desire and you should make sure that you have the right one, before you act.

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Sure, its fine for the spouse who refuses or is incapable of meeting the needs of his/her W or H, but OMG, its a horrible selfish disgusting person who engages in an affair.

 

I agree, both behaviors are wrong. And both are just as damaging. Bottom line, we human beings just don't treat each other very well sometimes. I don't know if it's because we're inherently cruel (I REALLY don't want to believe that one!), or if we're just selfish, or not tolerant enough of each other, or we don't draw our own boundaries clearly enough, or we've lost sight of the big picture... or if we're just trying to survive.

 

If our purpose here on earth is to take care of each other, well, we're failing miserably at it.

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TB, here's my outside opinion...

 

You mentioned having many discussions with you husband about the problem, and even floated an open marriage type of thing to get your needs met. The thing is, it's not just the physical intimacy that you are craving. It's the emotional as well - you mentioned making out, and being brought flowers... those are examples of more emotional connections rather than just sex. You are not just having sex withheld, it's really the whole package with some bones thrown in to keep you there it seems. It also sounds like you know that having an affair, while perhaps satisfying at the moment you have it, will not solve the other issues and will likely bring about MORE issues.

 

Sounds like your husband has some work to do and he is unwilling to do it. I'm so sorry you are in the situation you are in. If I were in your shoes, I would probably be packing up the kids and staying with my mother for a while (or telling him he needs to crash on his buddy's couch for a while) - either it would get hubby's head out of his nether-regions to actually make an honest effort, or it would be the prelude to permanent separation.

 

As for the judgmental people, they are coming from their own experiences (or learned behaviors)... It's also hard for people to get the whole picture from black and white text on a screen - it tends to get black and white answers.

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TB,

I absolutely believe there are situations where cheating is justified. For example:

1. Having a spouse who is choosing to withhold sex when (not talking about serious illness here - that is a different matter)

2. You have children and don't want to have your access to them limited by divorce and

3. You have attempted to resolve the sexual issues and they simply are unable/unwilling to

 

In that situation I actually think it is ok. The "least of all evils".

 

If you can afford it financially - then I think you should be upfront and let them know you intend to take a love and will be discreet but not secretive about it. In the "afford it" scenario you get an apartment and/or reach a custody agreement that YOU can live with. I don't think you should have to choose between celibacy and loss of parental interaction....

 

 

This actually makes sense, at least hypothetically. If the sex in my marriage completely died I would not want to give it up for the rest of my life. On the other hand a divorce would be financially catastrophic to us for a variety of reasons. Also I think a divorce would be emotionally catastrophic to our children.

 

 

Also I'm not even sure that my wife, in that situation, would be opposed to the notion of me having sex with another woman, that is, if my wife decided she had no interest in playing a sexual role in our marriage any longer. As long as I didn't flaunt it, kept it very discreet, didn't get emotionally involved with the OW/FWB/FB, didn't spend too much money on it, etc., why would she object?

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Im reading all of the judgments here about those who have affairs. What I dont hear anyone saying (with the exception of a few) is that it is a form of betrayal for a spouse to withhold sex, love, and affection when both have entered into a marital contract, which by its very nature people enter into because of the above-stated reasons.

 

I have said it and will keep saying it. Having a partner who withholds sex...no matter what the reason...hurts. It is one thing if he or she can't have sex but wants to. It is entirely another thing if he or she can have sex but doesn't want to. This causes the partner who was given the old bait and switch to wonder "Is it me?" "Would someone else be able to convince him or her to enjoy sex again?"

 

The marital vow says that we will remain faithful and hence also says, we will not withhold and make life difficult for our partner to remain faithful.

 

Yet as is so often mentioned here about the hurt that an affair causes, it is not said often that other forms of betrayal and cheating hurt almost as deeply.

 

 

Forget all extenuating circumstances. Do readers here really think that getting a divorce is that easy, or even always the best answer?

 

And that is what is always said to the one who is in a sexless marriage. "Simply go get a divorce." It is not simple. A divorce is not the best answer. And no, an affair is not the best answer.

 

And that is why someone in a sexless marriage sits between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

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Im reading all of the judgments here about those who have affairs. What I dont hear anyone saying (with the exception of a few) is that it is a form of betrayal for a spouse to withhold sex, love, and affection when both have entered into a marital contract, which by its very nature people enter into because of the above-stated reasons. Sure, its fine for the spouse who refuses or is incapable of meeting the needs of his/her W or H, but OMG, its a horrible selfish disgusting person who engages in an affair. Forget all extenuating circumstances. Do readers here really think that getting a divorce is that easy, or even always the best answer? Timing is truly an issue when it comes to divorce and needs to be considered as well. I have noticed that there are some posters on here that are so damaged/hurt/wounded that all they can do is bash and judge others. Simple right or wrong thinking. People like that don't help anyone with their opinions. If you are trying to answer posts from that headspace, all you are doing is projecting your own s--t onto others. Having said that, if you have NON-JUDGMENTAL opinions or thoughts on this, then please do respond.

 

This is a well written and savvy post. I believe that cheating is wrong, however I also know that emotonal and sexual neglect are HUGE contributing factors. Most of the BS on LS can only point the finger at their WS. Just as it takes two to build a relationship, it can also take two to break it. I find it tragic yet amusing when some are short sighted enough, to blindly accuse us of cheating just because we are fair enough to see both sides. Making false accusations only makes these posters look irrational and foolish.

My father cheated on my mother. I was very angry with him for being selfish and conniving, as well as humiliating my mother. However, to be fair, my mother was also a screeching and emasculating wife who loved to insult my father nearly every day. She also had no sense of privacy about their marriage; we four children had to listen to a tape of a racy conversation between my dad and his OW. My mother played it at top volume as often as possible, following the night when the OW's hubby woke us up with a phone call.

Suffice to say that my dad was an unfaithful pig, but my mother was also emotionally abusive, not to mention frigid.

It goes both ways, my dears!

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confusedinkansas

There are MANY different kinds of 'Betrayals' that can happen in a marriage/relationship. Infidelity is only ONE & there are others that take years to get over. Not just affairs.

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There are MANY different kinds of 'Betrayals' that can happen in a marriage/relationship. Infidelity is only ONE & there are others that take years to get over. Not just affairs.

 

Agreed, there are many kinds of hurtful betrayals possible in marriage.

 

What is judged so harshly about affairs, imo, is the lying and deceit and gaslighting. Drinking, gambling, shopping addictions--these can be betrayals (prioritizing the addiction ahead of the relationship), but they are generally known betrayals. Once those credit card bills start rolling in, it gets difficult to hide. Certainly, in the case of withheld sex, the betrayal is known by both parties.

 

In cases where the betrayal does involve deceit and gaslighting comparable to that found in the average affair, it is judged as harshly as an affair. Consider, for example, how a spouse would react to finding out that their spouse lost their job months earlier, but was pretending to go to work, all the while racking up thousands of dollars of gambling debts on secret credit cards. That would be right up there with a longterm affair, imo. Equally indefensible and damaging.

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quercus.robur
This actually makes sense, at least hypothetically. If the sex in my marriage completely died I would not want to give it up for the rest of my life. On the other hand a divorce would be financially catastrophic to us for a variety of reasons. Also I think a divorce would be emotionally catastrophic to our children.

 

 

Also I'm not even sure that my wife, in that situation, would be opposed to the notion of me having sex with another woman, that is, if my wife decided she had no interest in playing a sexual role in our marriage any longer. As long as I didn't flaunt it, kept it very discreet, didn't get emotionally involved with the OW/FWB/FB, didn't spend too much money on it, etc., why would she object?

In my marriage, sex (as well as physical and emotional intimacy) have died a year and half ago. My wife does not even consider that something should be done about this. This is "my problem". However, I am not ready to "cheat". I am seriously considering a divorce.

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confusedinkansas
Yup. It's playground mentality at its finest. Is that really how "adults" handle their issues? Not this one. If I had some sort of problem with my man, we would discuss it. If he refused to address issues with me to make our R better, I would move on.

 

Simple.

 

Adults - don't always handle their issues "correctly"

What works for one couple doesn't always work for another.

 

Divorce.......or Moving On.......Is not always the answer.

 

Simple - NO. It's never simple to leave any relationship. Those with a flip attitude towards leaving - saying it's SIMPLE - makes me wonder how vested in the relationship they really are.

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In my marriage, sex (as well as physical and emotional intimacy) have died a year and half ago. My wife does not even consider that something should be done about this. This is "my problem". However, I am not ready to "cheat". I am seriously considering a divorce.

 

I don't know that you actually have to cheat.

 

If you are already seriously considering getting divorced, why not sit down with your wife, and discuss whether she is opposed to you getting a "friend with benefits" e.g. a girlfriend for sex only?

 

After all she did tell you it was "your problem" so then she should not be opposed to you coming up with a solution.

 

If she's offended by this notion, it doesn't really matter, since you were talking about a divorce anyway. Once someone has gotten to the point where divorce is contemplated as a real possibility, not simply an idle threat coming out of frustration/anger, then it seems to me all other options should be put "on the table" first.

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