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Cheating is NOT the only form of betrayal


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Old 25th October 2010, 6:17 PM   #1
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Cheating is NOT the only form of betrayal

Im reading all of the judgments here about those who have affairs. What I dont hear anyone saying (with the exception of a few) is that it is a form of betrayal for a spouse to withhold sex, love, and affection when both have entered into a marital contract, which by its very nature people enter into because of the above-stated reasons. Sure, its fine for the spouse who refuses or is incapable of meeting the needs of his/her W or H, but OMG, its a horrible selfish disgusting person who engages in an affair. Forget all extenuating circumstances. Do readers here really think that getting a divorce is that easy, or even always the best answer? Timing is truly an issue when it comes to divorce and needs to be considered as well. I have noticed that there are some posters on here that are so damaged/hurt/wounded that all they can do is bash and judge others. Simple right or wrong thinking. People like that don't help anyone with their opinions. If you are trying to answer posts from that headspace, all you are doing is projecting your own s--t onto others. Having said that, if you have NON-JUDGMENTAL opinions or thoughts on this, then please do respond.
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Old 25th October 2010, 6:34 PM   #2
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No it is not the only form of betrayal but it is one of the worst and usually causes severe emotional trauma that takes years to get over. People who have affairs deserve to be judged and it is extremely selfish. Otherwise people would have no problem broadcasting it to the world. Your non judgmental cop out is only excuse to justify your actions and I doubt you will get many to agree with you except those who have cheated.

I am sorry you were neglected and treated poorly but that doesn't excuse an affair. I lose a lot of respect for someone who does that to their SO.
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Old 25th October 2010, 6:38 PM   #3
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LOL, I havent had an affair, but thanks for proving my point about the judgmental people on this board. You just couldnt wait to jump at another horrible awful person. Have I thought about it? Yes, so go ahead and judge me for that. But no hon, I have not cheated. My husband has in fact, betrayed me. THAT is my point.
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Old 25th October 2010, 7:02 PM   #4
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I agree that withholding of sex in a relationship is very damaging and as a matter of fact there are quite a few threads from people who find themselves in "sexless" marriages or "low sex" marriages.

The added elements in infidelity are 1) involvement of a third party and 2) deceit. So infidelity situations can be much more complex and damaging in more dimensions of the relationship.

Having said that, it is my suspicion that many of the "sexless" marriages actually involve the withholding spouse either carrying on an actual affair or wanting to, which provides at least a partial explanation for the sex being cut off. Not always of course. But I think in a lot of cases.
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Old 25th October 2010, 7:04 PM   #5
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It is still a form of betrayal though and cheaters come up with a million excuses. Witholding love and affection are very vague terms.
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Old 25th October 2010, 7:11 PM   #6
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Well its your life and you will do what you want but don't expect people not to judge you for it. Everybody judges. I'm glad you haven't had an affair and I hope you don't because I think you will regret it eventually. I don't think you are a horrible person and it seems like you have good reason for feeling betrayed. Have you told your husband that you feel this way?
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Old 25th October 2010, 7:13 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Woggle View Post
It is still a form of betrayal though and cheaters come up with a million excuses. Witholding love and affection are very vague terms.

I have not met or read about a cheater who did not come up with a brilliant, elaborate rationalization and justification of why they did it . So, um yeah, unless the OP wants to suggest that everybody who got cheated on deserved it, the whole thread is meaningless.
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Old 25th October 2010, 7:15 PM   #8
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Trust is the central issue of betrayal. It's of course pretty easy to see how cheating betrays a trust. But in reality there's a lot more to trust. And when one places trust in someone else and that trust is a mistake, a person comes to question themselves. That's why it's so entangling. People talk a lot about intimacy here on LS but it often seems to be taken that intimacy is physical closeness. To me it's not as much that as it is trusting that someone is who you think they are and that freedom exists to let your real self be known safely. It hurts in the extreme, for instance, if I choose to disclose something deeply personal to a lover and then have her change faces at another time and use that disclosure against me. I'm called to bash myself for falling for her appearance of trustworthiness. This would not be a case of "cheating" but it is a case of betrayal.

Example: coming to a place where you trust each other enough to disclose former relationships over issues like children. You think it's just about your stance on children. Then some time goes by and the biotch accuses you of still loving the former SO (just because you didn't seem to hate her in your open and close conversation). This makes you feel that you can't be you with this person because she'll turn anything honest you say about your life and your choices into grounds for contentiousness. Should we expect to never be able to talk about ourselves and how we've evolved in our character? It would be disheartening to assume so. People do it but it's less than ideal.
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Old 25th October 2010, 9:50 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Tinkerbell1 View Post
Im reading all of the judgments here about those who have affairs. What I dont hear anyone saying (with the exception of a few) is that it is a form of betrayal for a spouse to withhold sex, love, and affection when both have entered into a marital contract, which by its very nature people enter into because of the above-stated reasons. Sure, its fine for the spouse who refuses or is incapable of meeting the needs of his/her W or H, but OMG, its a horrible selfish disgusting person who engages in an affair. Forget all extenuating circumstances. Do readers here really think that getting a divorce is that easy, or even always the best answer? Timing is truly an issue when it comes to divorce and needs to be considered as well. I have noticed that there are some posters on here that are so damaged/hurt/wounded that all they can do is bash and judge others. Simple right or wrong thinking. People like that don't help anyone with their opinions. If you are trying to answer posts from that headspace, all you are doing is projecting your own s--t onto others. Having said that, if you have NON-JUDGMENTAL opinions or thoughts on this, then please do respond.
I believe this totally. I've seen too many friends who were betrayed by their spouse in non-cheating ways and those betrayals hurt them just as much if not more then my husband's affair betrayal hurt me.

I've seen some pretty harsh emotional damage that sexless marriages can cause. I've seen really bad damage that drinking betrayals, drugs, etc can cause. Every situation is different. I don't think an affair is any worse or any better then a number of different betrayals.
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Old 25th October 2010, 10:41 PM   #10
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hmmm

TB,
I absolutely believe there are situations where cheating is justified. For example:
1. Having a spouse who is choosing to withhold sex when (not talking about serious illness here - that is a different matter)
2. You have children and don't want to have your access to them limited by divorce and
3. You have attempted to resolve the sexual issues and they simply are unable/unwilling to

In that situation I actually think it is ok. The "least of all evils".

If you can afford it financially - then I think you should be upfront and let them know you intend to take a love and will be discreet but not secretive about it. In the "afford it" scenario you get an apartment and/or reach a custody agreement that YOU can live with. I don't think you should have to choose between celibacy and loss of parental interaction....




Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerbell1 View Post
Im reading all of the judgments here about those who have affairs. What I dont hear anyone saying (with the exception of a few) is that it is a form of betrayal for a spouse to withhold sex, love, and affection when both have entered into a marital contract, which by its very nature people enter into because of the above-stated reasons. Sure, its fine for the spouse who refuses or is incapable of meeting the needs of his/her W or H, but OMG, its a horrible selfish disgusting person who engages in an affair. Forget all extenuating circumstances. Do readers here really think that getting a divorce is that easy, or even always the best answer? Timing is truly an issue when it comes to divorce and needs to be considered as well. I have noticed that there are some posters on here that are so damaged/hurt/wounded that all they can do is bash and judge others. Simple right or wrong thinking. People like that don't help anyone with their opinions. If you are trying to answer posts from that headspace, all you are doing is projecting your own s--t onto others. Having said that, if you have NON-JUDGMENTAL opinions or thoughts on this, then please do respond.
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Old 25th October 2010, 10:48 PM   #11
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Thank you cat lady. I'm so glad at least one person so far can see this. IN answer to someone who asked if I have told my husband how I feel, the answer is a big fat yes. Repeatedly. In heart to heart conversations. Everything from reasonable mature discussions to me getting angry to me practically begging him to help so we can remain married. The responses are usually the same. He listens and gets defensive or sometimes he hears me and promises to change. It never lasts and sometimes there is no change whatsoever. Marriage is a two way street, but if one partner is willing to do whatever it takes and the other isnt, then what? Regarding the term "withholding" I am talking about the most basic aspects of a man/woman relationship being missing. Holding hands, making out, passionate kisses here and there, showing desire, bringing flowers or random acts of kindness/romance. Sex is almost non existant and when it does exist it is quite bluntly, not satisfying. And yes, I have told him this as well, in a manner that I was hoping would not be threatening. I wont get graphic here, but lets just say my needs are not a priority, and foreplay is a thing of the very far past.
He cant explain why he doesnt want to have sex, he does say he loves me and is attracted to me, and he doesnt think we need counseling. He talks about changes he will make, help he will get, etc. etc. but nothing changes. He keeps everything in the future: when things improve financially, when there is less stress, when the kids are sleeping through the night, when we can get away alone together, blah blah blah. He also is totally closed to my seeking sexual gratification elsewhere (ie I will get my needs met elsewhere so the pressure is off of you and we can stay together) So I guess for him its okay that I am unwillingly unsatisfied and close to celibate, because he cant figure his s--- out. This person I married is a kind and gentle man, but he doesn't seem to get how to be a giving partner, even with gentle and clear directions from the wife he states he wants to please. Something has got to give. Oh, and we have two small children and finances are quite tight right now so while divorce may in fact be imminent, it is not an attractive option at present. Not to mention the fact that I do love him and I dont want to hurt him, but to be honest, I am tired of being the one hurting.
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Old 25th October 2010, 11:02 PM   #12
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Mem, I just read your response after I posted my most recent response. Thank you for understanding. Those are my thoughts as well. In case it isnt obvious from my posts, this is all so foreign to me, ie. cheating on a trusted partner. I have had a few serious relationships in my life and i have never cheated, even through hard times, and there were hard times. I do not take this lightly. But the thought of breaking up this family is heartbreaking and will cause such hardship for all concerned. I have tried to do this the right way, but this has been an an ongoing issue for over a decade now. TO be honest, I cant figure out how ANYONE who loves their partner would be okay with not making any effort to gratify their partner or even have some type of intimacy with them. I feel that he is being incredibly selfish to want me to stay married, without making ANY efforts to treat me like a beloved wife and he is unwilling to even consider that I take a misteress (a little humor there). One of the reasons I miss the sex so much, isnt just because of the physical gratification, it is because its necessary and so important to the intimacy and connection between marital partners. I chose him for sex, I didnt want a different partner, thats why I married him and now, more importantly, he is the father of my children. But he is refusing to participate. Now I feel like he is just my coparent and room mate. He doesn't seem to get that one either
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Old 25th October 2010, 11:35 PM   #13
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TinkerBell, do you completely understand the reasons for his lack of libido and affection? First off, NONE of the reasons you gave are an excuse for infidelity, but could be grounds for divorce. But IMO you should make sure that there is not a physiological reason for his problems. If, for example a woman is having hormonal problems or early menopause she will lose interest in sex, the same goes for the man, maybe he is experiencing ED and doesn't want to appear less "manly", and so isn't telling you. There are many possible reasons for his loss of desire and you should make sure that you have the right one, before you act.
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Old 26th October 2010, 1:08 AM   #14
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Holier-than-thou, not though. LOL
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Old 26th October 2010, 1:10 AM   #15
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What about compassion for the betrayed spouse?
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