She says she dont love me anymore?

[desperate_man]

I dont know what to do and my user name is what I am, a desperate man in love with the only woman I will ever love. Here is our life in a short story to help you understand. My wife was "literally" the girl next door. I met her at age 13, I was smitten at 14 and chased her all through our high school years. Carried her books from the bus etc. At 15 years old I climbed a tree and carved our initials in a tree with "true love forever" that still stands in my parents back yard. I took her to the senior prom in High School and we have been together ever since.

We are now both 48 years old, have no children(by mutual choice) and have been happily married for 27 years, or so I thought. A month ago she said we have to talk and says she does not feel the "spark" anymore, does not love me and thinks of me more as a "room mate". My heart is breaking and I feel so helpless because I never saw her unhappiness. I think I have unknowingly pushed her away.

 

7 years ago we bought an old farmhouse with acreage, old barns etc. and I have admittedly spent TOO MUCH TIME working on the house and property and not enough time with her as I look back. Everything I have done here and all the hours spent was for us and our future and before buying this place we discussed the work I needed to do and at the time she said she understood. She has always supported me and enjoyed my efforts here "she said" but now it may have cost me the only thing I love in this life and that is my best friend and soul mate.

 

I told her I will sell everything and we can go back to the fun life and travel that we always shared but she is telling me it may be too late ! I really believe her hormones are out of whack but she refuses to believe it.

 

Last year she had to have a partial hysterectomy (large fibroid tumor) and also came off the pill which she has been on since she was 17 years old. In this last year she has been acting differently but I just thought it was lifes normal pressures from work, schedules etc. She has a lot of pressure at work and is depended upon tremendously. I truly believe her body changes are telling her mind that there is more in life then I can offer but she says there is nothing wrong with her although she still says its nothing I have done and that its her. I have never cheated, I am not a drunk, a druggie or abusive. Everything I have done in my life was for her.

After she told me a month ago that she does not love me anymore I found on her phone a text message from a guy that we went to high school with 30 years ago that said he will fly her down to tampa where he lives and pay for the ticket. She says he is just a friend but has since admitted that she would have and tried to talk him into an affair and said that it wasnt his fault and if it wasnt him it would just have been someone else. She has not cheated yet but she has never lied to me before either. I talked to him on the phone this week and i believe his side and believe that it was her initiating the attempt that he has thwarted , thank god ! He said he is done with middle aged women but I am not dang it !

 

My heart is breaking and i dont know what to do. I just dont know her anymore and I am scared to death that I will lose her. She has always been an emotional girl, like "crying at the airport" if she was leaving me just for a week to see her family down south but now she is like a stone. She has lost about 20 pounds in the last month but says she is dieting but I know its not true. I loved her then, I love her now and I will always love her and am desperate to save the only thing I care about...my wife.

Oh and last week I talked her into making an appointment with her gyno (same Dr. since 16 years old) to see if its something physical (estrogen levels,hormones?)that is effecting her mental and she agreed too. She said she tried calling Monday, busy line left message. Tuesday she said they never called back, again busy , no message, Wednesday same thing so on Thursday I left work early to go to Dr's to get her an appointment, I did and she wigged out on me saying it was her body and her life and to stay out of it.

 

She has never been like this and I am scared.

Im sorry my short story was not so short but I am a desperate man about to lose everything. Could it be the surgery and "the change" effecting how she sees our life? Please ladies help me understand what could be happening or if you have had similar situations. I will do whatever it takes to save this marriage and get her to love me again the way I love her.

 

Glenn

[vestigalvirgin]

Tell her she is free to go down to Tampa (or wherever) if she wants, but if she does so, not to come back.

 

Make it very clear to her that she must be 100% into the marriage or she will be "out" on her rear end.

 

If she wants to walk, you can't stop her. However she doesn't get to use you as "the back up option."

 

By the way I think she has already physically cheated on you, either with the Tampa guy or with someone else.

[vestigalvirgin]

I love her now and I will always love her and am desperate to save the only thing I care about...my wife

 

 

That woman that you think of as "my wife" no longer exists--if she ever did. You can't "save" what isn't there any longer, and may NEVER have been there.

 

She could have been cheating on you for your entire marriage and you might not be able to have any clue about it.

 

In any case even if it hasn't already turned physical she's at the very least deeply involved in an emotional affair, EA, which is cheating all the same.

 

Kick the skank out on her rear end if she doesn't want to be married to you.

 

Good riddance.

[vestigalvirgin]

In this last year she has been acting differently but I just thought it was lifes normal pressures from work, schedules etc. She has a lot of pressure at work and is depended upon tremendously.

 

 

In addition to the Tampa guy, this indicates that she's probably been having an affair (physical, emotional, or both) with someone at her workplace during this time period.

[vestigalvirgin]

She has never been like this

 

 

Sorry to say, but she has probably ALWAYS been "like this," but you just haven't noticed because of your life long infatuation with her.

 

You chased her for years until she finally broke down and you "caught" her.

 

She made a devil's bargain with you. You stated that you and she always did things like trips and "fun stuff". You sound hard working and probably gave her a nice comfortable life financially. That was her trade off. Lots and lots of women do this kind of thing.

 

If you had kids, they're probably older now and perhaps out of the house or close to it. There's nothing tieing her to you anymore. She knows that if she gets divorced she gets at least half of the loot, perhaps more, plus spousal support etc.

 

Your marriage is done and over. Stop holding an illusion of what you think your wife is or was. If she ever was really that person, she hasn't been for a long long time. Women like your wife don't turn cold overnight, it takes years. And it's NOT because you were spending so much time working on the farm you bought.

 

She told you what she wants: You, OUT of her life. She told you she would have cheated with someone even if not Tampa guy. That clearly indicates she's cheated before, and there's nothing special about Tampa guy. I'm certain she's been cheating on you with someone at work.

 

She's a cheater, probably a serial cheater at this point, a remorseless liar, and she doesn't love you anymore, if she ever did.

 

Cut your losses. Get thee to a lawyer quickly to determine your rights and to try to do some financial damage control. Hire a private investigator to get evidence of her infidelities which will give you leverage in the divorce proceedings.

 

This marriage is OVER and the sooner you accept that the better off you will be.

 

You're still young. Let this b*tch walk and find someone else who truly loves you.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

30+ years and no kids.... Cherish those times and pull up your boot straps, grow a pair and stand up to her and make some tough decisions.

 

Don't let her walk all over you.

 

I guess I should ask.... How has the physical changes been over the years? The sex?

[desperate_man]

Vestigalvirgin,

You appear to me to be a very bitter person. Im sorry but I cant disagree with you more and the only answers you seem to have are to just end it and move on. Maybe you have never experienced the kind of love that my wife and I have shared through the years and for that I am sorry. This all started in the last year or so.

 

Toodamnpragmatic,

She is not walking all over me she just appears to be withdrawn and confused. Physically I am in great shape and am a good looking guy. (Many an offer to cheat through the years but I abstained throughout because I love my wife and would never risk losing what we have) She has put on some pounds over the years (maybe 40?) but is not obese by any means, she is well proportioned and is a beautiful woman. I have never asked or told her to lose weight but her stress lately is making her unable to eat normally and she has lost weight without trying which is not good and worries me.

Our sex life has always been good but of course it is not as frequent as a couple of newly weds. Like i said, these feelings she are having is all fairly recent like in the last year which makes me think she has some hormone/estrogen issues making her confused. I will not give up on her.

 

Thankyou both for the input but you both appear to be jilted men by your attitudes and manners and I am more looking for a womans point of view about the emotional "changes" that can happen in a womans life at this age, especially after a hysterectomy and/or getting off birth control pills after so many years.

 

If you knew us all these years you would understand my desperation and confusion...we have always been very close.

[vestigalvirgin]

Vestigalvirgin,

You appear to me to be a very bitter person.

 

Could be, but I'm not sure why you think that personality trait, if I have it, is relevant.

 

 

Im sorry but I cant disagree with you more and the only answers you seem to have are to just end it and move on.

 

It's actually more that you face reality as soon as you can. You are WAY behind the curve on this. Your wife has come out and TOLD you she doesn't want you in your life and doesn't love you. You're not listening to what she's saying. She fits all the patterns of the so called "walk away" wife.

 

 

 

Maybe you have never experienced the kind of love that my wife and I have shared through the years and for that I am sorry.

 

 

 

 

 

This all started in the last year or so.

 

 

That's an interesting couple of comments, you're making assumptions about the "kind of love" you and your wife shared, which are probably pretty ironic. This undoubtedly did not all start in the past year, it never does in this kind of situation.

 

I didn't have time to do it before but the answer are all in your original post which I am going to break down for you in a little bit.

[vestigalvirgin]

I dont know what to do and my user name is what I am, a desperate man in love with the only woman I will ever love.

 

Desperation is not attractive and you can't think when you're desperate. Saying that this is the only woman you will ever love assumes the conclusion that you are seeking, which is that she continues to love you and continues to stay married to you. You have to give yourself other options: you have to realize that divorce, whether initiated by her or by you, is ultimately an option, and if that occurs, that you can find someone else in the future.

 

 

Here is our life in a short story to help you understand. My wife was "literally" the girl next door. I met her at age 13, I was smitten at 14 and chased her all through our high school years. Carried her books from the bus etc. At 15 years old I climbed a tree and carved our initials in a tree with "true love forever" that still stands in my parents back yard. I took her to the senior prom in High School and we have been together ever since.

 

You don't really explain how you ultimately got her to stay with you and marry you. I guess sheer persistence can accomplish a lot of things. But the fundamental clue here, is that your relationship with your wife has always been imbalanced, emotionally speaking. You have always wanted her more than she has wanted you. It sounds like the imbalance has been pretty extreme actually. Too many gaps in the facts to be sure.

 

 

We are now both 48 years old, have no children(by mutual choice) and have been happily married for 27 years, or so I thought.

 

Another very critical clue. You may again accuse me of being "bitter" or whatever; but the reality of life is that when a woman really loves a man, at some point or another, she will want to have his babies. Maybe for various reasons that might never happen. But a woman who loves a man, really loves him, will want to have his babies.

 

The two of you were high school sweethearts. It is abnormal, unless there is some serious medical issue that you haven't mentioned, for a woman in the situation your wife was in during your marriage, to NOT want to have babies. Ideally with the man she loves, which should be her husband; but if not him, then with someone.

 

I have to guess now that there must have been some pretty horrendous fights over whether or not to have children between the two of you, oh, maybe 15-20 years back, when her biological clock was really ticking hard, say late 20's - mid-30's. Maybe she tried to tell you and you just didn't listen? And if so she's been harboring that resentment for all this time. Yes she gave in and didn't have children (if she wanted them). But that leaves scars that never go away.

 

Maybe you're the kind of guy who has been successful in life just powering his way over and through all obstacles, ignoring what you don't want to hear. A very forceful personality?

 

And my question to you as a man is, why, if you really loved this woman, did YOU not want to have any children with her? My friend that's just not a normal way for two people who meet and court in the situation you say you and your wife did, to behave.

 

 

A month ago she said we have to talk and says she does not feel the "spark" anymore, does not love me and thinks of me more as a "room mate". My heart is breaking and I feel so helpless because I never saw her unhappiness. I think I have unknowingly pushed her away.

 

To get the bottom of this mystery, to try to understand what is going on now, you have to have the courage to actually try to get answers to the mystery of your entire relationship, from the very beginning. This requires honest and frank communication with your wife but she sounds long past even wanting to try. That ship has probably sailed long ago.

 

But, if I were in your shoes, I would ask her why she married you in the first place. Why she never wanted to have children. Whether she ever regretted that decision.

 

 

 

7 years ago we bought an old farmhouse with acreage, old barns etc. and I have admittedly spent TOO MUCH TIME working on the house and property and not enough time with her as I look back. Everything I have done here and all the hours spent was for us and our future and before buying this place we discussed the work I needed to do and at the time she said she understood. She has always supported me and enjoyed my efforts here "she said" but now it may have cost me the only thing I love in this life and that is my best friend and soul mate.

 

Man you are really looking for anything but the real answers with this kind of thought process. Whatever is going on between you and your wife right now has nothing to do with the farmhouse or how much you've been working on it.

 

 

I told her I will sell everything and we can go back to the fun life and travel that we always shared but she is telling me it may be too late ! I really believe her hormones are out of whack but she refuses to believe it.

 

She can have the fun life and travel if she divorces you, gets half the marital assets, which sound pretty substantial, and goes to Tampa to be with her boyfriend.

 

Do you think your marriage was always about providing for her material desires? This is about emotional issues not her material desires.

 

 

Last year she had to have a partial hysterectomy (large fibroid tumor) and also came off the pill which she has been on since she was 17 years old. In this last year she has been acting differently but I just thought it was lifes normal pressures from work, schedules etc.

 

Did you agree not to have children because she had fibroids at a younger age making it dangerous/impossible for her to get pregnant? That can be traumatizing for a woman, and the surgery may have reminded her what she has missed out on in life: having children. She may be blaming that on you now, even if at the time, the decision not to have kids was mutual.

 

 

She has a lot of pressure at work and is depended upon tremendously. I truly believe her body changes are telling her mind that there is more in life then I can offer but she says there is nothing wrong with her although she still says its nothing I have done and that its her.

 

So why don't you believe her when she tells you there is nothing wrong with her, nothing that you have done, it's her?

 

Your relationship has always been about her. You chased her, you wanted her, and finally "caught" her. Now she feels there's nothing else you can give her that she wants anymore, so she's done with you.

 

 

I have never cheated, I am not a drunk, a druggie or abusive. Everything I have done in my life was for her.

 

With all respect, if this is actually true, then you are a ridiculous doormat. Or a martyr of some kind.

 

 

 

After she told me a month ago that she does not love me anymore I found on her phone a text message from a guy that we went to high school with 30 years ago that said he will fly her down to tampa where he lives and pay for the ticket.

 

This is the guy she was always truly "in love" with (or at least thinks she was). Her "first love." This is the guy you were competing with all those years ago back in high school, even if you didn't realize it. (Maybe she just had a crush on him back then; maybe it was physical with him and she's never told you.) This guy is her "lost love from the past," whether in actuality or in her fantasy world.

 

In actuality the guy's probably some kind of total loser but that sort of reality never seems to make a difference in these things.

 

 

She says he is just a friend but has since admitted that she would have and tried to talk him into an affair and said that it wasnt his fault and if it wasnt him it would just have been someone else.

 

That's actually a pretty cold hearted thing for her to say. Maybe she's saying it could have been anyone simply to cover up the depth of her connection to this particular guy, maybe not. Either way is not good for you.

 

Let me ask you something--when you were courting her during your high school years, were you ever separated or in a long distance relationship for any period of time? I.e. did one of you go away to college? Most likely during any period of separation she cheated on you with this Tampa guy way back when.

 

 

She has not cheated yet but she has never lied to me before either. I talked to him on the phone this week and i believe his side and believe that it was her initiating the attempt that he has thwarted , thank god ! He said he is done with middle aged women but I am not dang it !

 

She's at least emotionally cheated and remember cheaters lie. Whatever he's said to you is pretty much worthless unless it can be independently verified.

 

 

My heart is breaking and i dont know what to do. I just dont know her anymore and I am scared to death that I will lose her.

 

She's already gone. You've already lost her. The question is whether you can get her back but unfortunately she seems to have absolutely no doubt that she wants "out" of this marriage. You need to respect her viewpoint even if you don't agree with it. You can't force her to love you.

 

Apparently with enough diligence and pursuit you CAN get a 17 year old girl to be in a relationship with and marry you. But now she's 48 and has absolutely no reason to stay with you unless she actually does love you.

 

 

She has always been an emotional girl, like "crying at the airport" if she was leaving me just for a week to see her family down south but now she is like a stone. She has lost about 20 pounds in the last month but says she is dieting but I know its not true.

 

Now this makes me question your thought process even more. When someone loses 20 lbs. how else can they do it other than by dieting? That's what women generally tend to do when they get a new boyfriend whom they are planning on visiting and having sex with. Why on earth would you deny that she is on a diet? 20 lbs in a month does seem excessive however. She'll probably gain most of it back because crash diets never work.

 

 

I loved her then, I love her now and I will always love her and am desperate to save the only thing I care about...my wife.

 

The wife you thought you knew and loved, no longer exists, if she ever did. That picture in your mind is an illusion. But in this case it's pretty clear that you fabricated this illusion from the very beginning of the relationship. This was a woman you put on a pedestal at the age of 13 and never let her get down off of it, even to have your children. Well now she's jumped off that pedestal and hard.

 

 

 

Oh and last week I talked her into making an appointment with her gyno (same Dr. since 16 years old) to see if its something physical (estrogen levels,hormones?)that is effecting her mental and she agreed too. She said she tried calling Monday, busy line left message. Tuesday she said they never called back, again busy , no message, Wednesday same thing so on Thursday I left work early to go to Dr's to get her an appointment, I did and she wigged out on me saying it was her body and her life and to stay out of it.

 

Gee that doesn't sound too much like a build up of a marriage's worth of resentment, does it? And frankly while I pretty much hate cheaters and cheating, I have to agree with your wife for Pete's sake on this point.

 

 

 

She has never been like this and I am scared.

 

Sometimes physical problems and surgeries make a person, esp. at mid life when mid life crises are frequent, think about what their life has been and where it's going. At 48 you look down the road and see that you have maybe what, 10 or at the outside 15 before you are OLD. And you reevaluate and maybe decide that you're not where you want to be.

 

If you don't think having a partial hysterectomy made your wife re-evaluate her entire life, and specifically the decision not to have children, then I think you're kidding yourself.

 

 

 

Im sorry my short story was not so short but I am a desperate man about to lose everything. Could it be the surgery and "the change" effecting how she sees our life? Please ladies help me understand what could be happening or if you have had similar situations. I will do whatever it takes to save this marriage and get her to love me again the way I love her.

 

Glenn

 

You had 30+ relatively good years with her, which is a lot more than most people have. You should get individual counseling to help you with the process of divorce and detachment that appears inevitable at this point.

[vestigalvirgin]

She has always been an emotional girl, like "crying at the airport" if she was leaving me just for a week to see her family down south but now she is like a stone.

 

OP, re-reading this something else hit me suddenly.

 

Do you absolutely know for a fact that when she was visiting "down south" the visits were with her family, only?

 

How far from the Tampa guy's location did she visit her family?

 

People have been known to rent cars and drive long distances to participate in affairs.

 

How often were these "down south" visits?

 

Her bouts of "crying at the airport" could have been guilt, knowing that she was leaving you for a week not just to see her family (why on earth would that make her cry, it should make her happy), but to have an illicit rendezvous with some guy.

 

And even if "down south" is not close to Tampa, could be that they would meet up half way.

 

The dots are starting to connect for me even if not for yourself. I think the more details you are willing to provide, the more obvious it will become that your wife may well have been engaged in one or more affairs for many years.

 

If so, you wouldn't be the first man (or woman) whose spouse was able to pull off decades of cheating without detection.

 

Sorry if this sounds bitter, it's not meant to be.

 

You need to demand your wife undergo a polygraph test and tell her that after 30 years at least she owes you the TRUTH. The ENTIRE TRUTH. All of it.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Vestigalvirgin.... But I am sure you've opened some wounds and hit some truths.... But you have gone too far or at least been way too blunt.

 

Me I am reading a scared man who has done too much, invested too much in his wife and lost his independence along the way. Now he is doing the farm, and enjoying it, but didn't see changes in his spouse.

 

Am I bitter???? At times yes.... Do I see myself in the OP, a little. I also however know that he is looking and sounding awfully pathetic right now. And to be honest, if what he says is true about his appearance and fitness, compared to hers (and yes I am shallow), I'd be even more indifferent, seeing that there is no kids, financially they are well off and heck he been propositioned more then once......;) But then I am an ahole and think with my member.....

 

Really OP be careful what you wish for (a female's opinion) or Lizzie60 will chime in and crush any hopes you have with your spouse.....

[desperate_man]

Vestigalvirgin.... But I am sure you've opened some wounds and hit some truths....

He couldnt be further from the truths.

 

Now let me explain and reason out some of VestigalVirgins analysis

 

 

Do you absolutely know for a fact that when she was visiting "down south" the visits were with her family, only?

Yes

is that your relationship with your wife has always been imbalanced, emotionally speaking.

Are you kidding me? What told you this?

But a woman who loves a man, really loves him, will want to have his babies.

You need to read some statistics pal, it was common in the 80's to decide against rug rats and it is even more common now. Children are not a sign of love, they are a product of sperm and egg...look at all the kids in the adoption agencies and broken homes. After the kids grow up is when most women decide they "fell out of love". With or without kids, this is the age (45-60)when most women decide to call it quits for greener pastures. Sounds more like a womans mind being effected by the hormonal changes in their bodies making them believe something different is better.

Did you agree not to have children because she had fibroids at a younger age making it dangerous/impossible for her to get pregnant?

No,believe it or not...not everyone likes/wants kids.Do you have any?

So why don't you believe her when she tells you there is nothing wrong with her, nothing that you have done, it's her?

What part of knowing her actions, her emotions,her thoughts,her general mannerisms dont you understand. Have you ever spent 30 years living with and loving someone other then your mom? By the sounds of your bitterness I would guess not. This has all been in the last year since her surgery that things have eroded and she has signs of depression which in todays world with lifes pressures is very common.

With all respect, if this is actually true, then you are a ridiculous doormat. Or a martyr of some kind.

Because I say I have done everything in my life for her you call me a martyr and a doormat? My man, you have never known love then. How long was your longest relationship? 5 years? How old are you?

This is the guy you were competing with all those years ago back in high school, even if you didn't realize it.

The initial contact with him came about this year because my wife is the organizer of our 30 year H.S. Reunion this year. She hardly knew him back them. He is coming to the reunion with his girlfriend Carol whom my wife was ALSO talking to through text messages and phone calls. I agree on my wifes side of this that it was an emotional affair but in her mind he was "different" and providing a "spark" by listening to her in this confused part of her life. Of course now you will probably say that they wanted a threesome since you have all the answers?

were you ever separated or in a long distance relationship for any period of time?

The longest we have been seperated in our 30 years together was 1 week. I do not work overtime, she does not work overtime. Neither of us go out drinking with our friends unless we are together. Like i said you are assuming we are your average married couple, we have always been much closer then that and it is in the last year SINCE THE SURGERY that things have changed for her mentally and emotionally.

She's at least emotionally cheated

Finally I agree with you.

She's already gone. You've already lost her.

Nope, she is sleeping in OUR bed upstairs as I type this. She smiled her old smile when I kissed her good morning and told her I loved her and she reciprocated in the genuine fashion of old. Its never over over till the fat lady sings as they say, I have seen a change in the last week or so.

The wife you thought you knew and loved, no longer exists, if she ever did. That picture in your mind is an illusion.

Are you reminiscing of your relationship or mine bud?

You had 30+ relatively good years with her, which is a lot more than most people have.

That is because of true LOVE and because we have never listened to bitter advice from people like you. For everything I say you pull the negative, not one thing positive. I truly hope that nobody finding this forum for a little help is weak of mind enough to listen to your dark cloud theories and bitter , assuming rantings. I came here to hopefully get a little insight from women who may have had similar tough emotional issues due to the changes in a womans mind when the physical hormonal changes occur and what do I get? A couple of jilted,bitter men that think they know everything about nothing.

 

Let me ask you a question or two...(so I can understand)

Are you in a relationship now Mr VestigalVirgin ?

What was your longest relationship?

How many have you had?

How old are you?

[hopesndreams]

In this last year she has been acting differently but I just thought it was lifes normal pressures from work, schedules etc. She has a lot of pressure at work and is depended upon tremendously.

 

This sounds like something I wrote last year. Do some investigating. She could/might, you never know, be forming an attachment at her meatplace...ummm...I mean workplace.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

You have all the answers and it all comes down to a mid-life crisis, stress, medicine or a chemical imbalance....

 

What are you doing here then if all of us are so wrong??? Obviously we're missing something if every single one of vestigal virgins points were so so wrong (outside an EA)...

Edited July 11, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[desperate_man]

Could it be the surgery and "the change" effecting how she sees our life? Please ladies help me understand what could be happening or if you have had similar situations.

 

Glenn

I do not have all the answers but you were reading so much between the lines you forgot to read the one line that mattered most...

 

And by the way she works at a bank with 90% contact with women co-workers and old guys so it isnt the meat market you all seem to think.

[xxoo]

DM, your wife sounds "stuck"--as in, stuck in a certain level of maturity or development. She's been with the same man, the same dr, presumably in the same town/area since she was in her young teens. And now the man that she pursues is one she knew.....in her young teens.

 

Yes, I suspect it is a combo of age, the surgery, and menopause that is causing her to have these feelings now, but it sounds like she has some issues to explore and resolve. It sounds like a classic situation for a person wanting to "find herself" after doing everything she "should" do for decades. This doesn't excuse her behavior, of course.

 

I really don't think this is something you can fix for her. My advice: give her a strong ultimatum. Stay (100% invested) or Leave (100% gone). Don't wait around passively while she straddles the fence. Your strong response may shock some sense into her. Or not, but I can guarantee that pleading will not make you seem more attractive.

[spriggig]

She sought out an affair to fill an emotional void she feels. This is a void that has probably existed for your entire relationship--until recently you filled it.

 

Whole people fill this void with themselves and offer themselves as whole people into a relationship. It takes time and experience to learn how to do this, and people who marry early rarely learn it. This is learned on the battle field of love and even then not very often.

 

I'm sorry to say this, but out of ignorance (really, what guy knows this stuff before hand?) you took your attention off of her at at time when she needed it most--menopause and mid-life crisis.

 

BTW, none of this excuses an affair on her part. Which leads me to my second point, IF she is in an affair, she is lying through her teeth to you because her loyalty lies with the OM now. Even simply seeking out an affair requires her to justify her action--she blames you for the breakdown in your marriage. But, you really can't be blamed for doing the best you could to make a good life for both of you and simply failing out of ignorance to understand what she really needed from you. That is a breakdown in communication and you are BOTH responsible for communication.

[vestigalvirgin]

He couldnt be further from the truths.

 

Desperate, have you ever seen the movie "Rashomon"? We each have our own version of "the truth." However--please re-read the title of your own thread, "she said she doesn't love me anymore."

 

That's the "truth" which is sort of the premise of the entire thread. Does she love you anymore? I don't know. But, you said that she told you she does not. So I accept that she actually did tell you that. I also accept as a "truth" that she would not have said that to you if she didn't mean it--at least at the time she said it.

 

What you seem to be trying to do is find reasons to work around that fundamental "truth." All I'm trying to do, based on the clues you've provided, is to figure out how your spouse got to a point where she could say something like that to you.

 

 

Are you kidding me? What told you this?

You need to read some statistics pal, it was common in the 80's to decide against rug rats and it is even more common now. Children are not a sign of love, they are a product of sperm and egg...look at all the kids in the adoption agencies and broken homes. After the kids grow up is when most women decide they "fell out of love". With or without kids, this is the age (45-60)when most women decide to call it quits for greener pastures.

 

Desperate, you can't find the "truth"--your truth, or your wife's truth--by stipulating that your situation is typical, average, desirable, and so on. The majority of people who meet at a young age, say in high school, and get married, and stay married through the child bearing years, have children, if it's medically possible. Or at a minimum, the mutual decision NOT to have children is a momentous one and not taken lightly. What generally happens is that people may initially decide they don't want children, but then when they hit their late 20's-mid 30's that changes pretty fast.

 

Rather than acknowledge the "truth," that your relationship is very unusual in that both you and your wife supposedly decided very early on that you didn't want children, ever, and neither one of your ever changed your mind or expressed doubt about it--you want to pretend that what you did was ordinary or typical. IME it's not, it's very unusual. The point I was trying to make, which you didn't hear, was that perhaps yes your wife thought she never wanted children, but only now, has it hit home what she may have lost by not ever having them. You don't even want to accept that as a possible explanation for your wife's disenchantment, when it's actually a pretty obvious one.

 

The bottom line on this whole issue however is your bizarre statement that "Children are not a sign of love." That is frankly unbelievable that you could say that and claim to have any understanding of your own situation. For married people who claim to be deeply in love with each other, having children is often viewed as the highest expression of their mutual love, because of all the sacrifice it entails; and further because the children are the actual combination of the two lovers. Creation of new life, the combination of the DNA of the two lovers, not being an expression of love?

 

Evidently you have never been with a pregnant woman feeling her baby kick inside her and lovingly stroking her abdomen and cooing to it? You have never been the father lying in bed next to that pregnant woman and listening to that baby and stroking her abdomen as well?

 

I guess not. I guess not.

 

Statements like "children are not a sign of love" tells me the "truth" that you are lacking in a very basic area of fundamental understanding of children, love, and loving marital relationships.

 

 

 

No,believe it or not...not everyone likes/wants kids.Do you have any?

 

Take three guesses. Yes, yes and yes.

 

 

What part of knowing her actions, her emotions,her thoughts,her general mannerisms dont you understand.

 

If your depth of understanding was at great as you believe it to be, then you would not have been shocked when she declared she didn't love you any more.

 

 

Have you ever spent 30 years living with and loving someone other then your mom?

 

No. Not 30 years.

 

 

 

 

By the sounds of your bitterness I would guess not.

 

Why would I be bitter about what your wife told you?

 

 

This has all been in the last year since her surgery that things have eroded and she has signs of depression which in todays world with lifes pressures is very common.

 

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

 

 

Because I say I have done everything in my life for her you call me a martyr and a doormat?

 

Yes, actually, you're correct. I didn't have the time in the other post, but a person who claims to be totally self-sacrificing on behalf of someone else is neither a martyr not a doormat. It's someone who wants to be perceived as unselfish as an ulterior motive (I don't know what yours is). Because whatever you did in your relationship with your wife was not just for her, it was for yourself, as well. The fact that you would claim to be totally unselfish doesn't make you a doormat nor a martyr. It makes you transparently untruthful or perhaps delusional.

 

 

 

My man, you have never known love then

 

You keep talking about "love" when it is rather apparent that you may be somewhat clueless about what mature "love" is. [Face it, you're both mature adults now, not infatuated teenagers.] Talk to any parent who loves their spouse about whether having children with their beloved was an act of "love" or simply a "meeting of sperm and egg."

 

 

 

 

 

.

How long was your longest relationship? 5 years? How old are you?

 

Longest relationship was/is considerably longer than 5 years and I suspect but am not sure I am around your age or perhaps a little bit older than yourself.

 

 

 

The initial contact with him came about this year because my wife is the organizer of our 30 year H.S. Reunion this year.

 

And how do you know these "truths"? Because she told you? Because the guy she was having the EA with told you?

 

 

 

She hardly knew him back them.

 

....but she knew him. How well, you can only guess at.

 

 

 

He is coming to the reunion with his girlfriend Carol whom my wife was ALSO talking to through text messages and phone calls.

 

Have you divulged your wife's affair to Carol? She's entitled to know her boyfriend is a cheater.

 

 

 

I agree on my wifes side of this that it was an emotional affair but in her mind he was "different" and providing a "spark" by listening to her in this confused part of her life.

 

These excuses matter why, exactly?

 

 

Of course now you will probably say that they wanted a threesome since you have all the answers?

 

Why don't you ask them what they wanted?

 

 

The longest we have been separated in our 30 years together was 1 week.

 

I guess this is referring to her trips "down south"? Plenty of people conduct years-long affairs under their spouse's noses. It doesn't take a week to have a rendezvous.

 

 

 

I do not work overtime, she does not work overtime. Neither of us go out drinking with our friends unless we are together.

 

Does she ever go out to lunch without you? Shopping? It's not necessary to go out drinking in order to have a rendezvous with someone.

 

 

 

 

Like i said you are assuming we are your average married couple,

 

Not at all. Not at all. The "average married couple" either has children, wants to have children if they can, or has seriously considered it. The "average married couple" believes having children together is a sign of their love for each other.

 

 

 

we have always been much closer then that and it is in the last year SINCE THE SURGERY that things have changed for her mentally and emotionally.Finally I agree with you.

 

She had a partial hysterectomy which would seem to make her think about issues related to bearing and raising children. The surgery could have caused her to reevaluate the decision not to have any children with a great deal of remorse and regret, and lead to blaming it on you even if at the time it was a mutual decision.

 

I'm not saying it's the "truth" but it's certainly a plausible reason for her to say she doesn't love you anymore and have an affair. The only reason you fail to understand this is because you don't understand what children mean in a relationship between two loving people. Which leads me to also believe that whatever kind of "love" you may have had in your relationship wasn't the same thing that most "average married couples" would regard as "love."

 

 

 

 

Nope, she is sleeping in OUR bed upstairs as I type this. She smiled her old smile when I kissed her good morning and told her I loved her and she reciprocated in the genuine fashion of old. Its never over over till the fat lady sings as they say, I have seen a change in the last week or so.

 

O.K. great. Problem solved. Good for you. (You do realize that when cheaters are caught they will cover up, lie, pretend?)

 

 

Are you reminiscing of your relationship or mine bud?

 

I don't know what this is supposed to mean.

 

 

That is because of true LOVE and because we have never listened to bitter advice from people like you.

 

Well then listen to your own wife. She told you she doesn't love you anymore.

 

 

 

 

For everything I say you pull the negative, not one thing positive.

 

It's not my place to be blowing sunshine out of my @ss at you. The situation you've presented is extremely negative, IMO. What makes it esp. negative is this attitude you seem to have of just wanting to hear what you want to hear, and having some rather major blind spots about things like "love" and "children."

 

What good would it do you for me to tell you I think you've got a good handle on things, a proper perspective, and everything's going to be OK? I don't think those things are true. I'd rather be "negative" and turn out to be wrong than be "positive" and turn out to be wrong. At least if you look at the worst case scenario you'll think about ways you can protect yourself. If instead I sell you sunshine and roses and tell you what you want to hear you might get completely smoked at that 30th reunion that's coming up. It would really suck to take your wife to the 30th reunion only to have her go home with someone else.

 

 

 

 

I truly hope that nobody finding this forum for a little help is weak of mind enough to listen to your dark cloud theories and bitter , assuming rantings. I came here to hopefully get a little insight from women who may have had similar tough emotional issues due to the changes in a womans mind when the physical hormonal changes occur and what do I get? A couple of jilted,bitter men that think they know everything about nothing.

 

OK fair enough. Ask women whether or not they think a typical woman might regret not having children (esp. if they married a controlling blowhard who talked them out of it or intimidated them out of it--not saying you are that, but you could be), whether those regrets might not be emphasized if they just went through menopause and had a hysterectomy, and whether or not they might just blame their controlling husband for never having children. Ask women whether they believe that having their husband's children is an expression of love, or not.

 

 

 

Let me ask you a question or two...(so I can understand)

Are you in a relationship now Mr VestigalVirgin ?

 

Yes.

 

 

What was your longest relationship?

 

My marriage.

 

How many have you had?

 

Marriages? One.

 

How old are you?

 

Asked and answered.

[vestigalvirgin]

Now YOU are telling fairytales. This is just simple nonsense.

 

What? That people who are deeply in love and get married to each other typically view having children with each other as the highest form of love?

 

Why on Earth would anyone deliberately have children with their spouse other than as an expression of mutual love? Other then say King Henry VIII who needed an heir to the throne?

 

 

Yes.....certainly the above CAN be true.

MORE OFTEN THAN NOT IT IS NOT TRUE.

 

Well maybe your parents didn't love each other and you were an accident. That's not my problem, is it? I'm talking about when two people who are married to each other and supposedly deeply in love (as claimed by the OP) deliberately choose to have children with each other. In those circumstances, which are the only relevant ones for this discussion, yes, it's considered an expression of their love. Conversely, when two married people who supposed deeply love each other decide they will NEVER have children with each other, even if they are quite capable of doing so, I think it's a clear indication that their love might not be as deep as they think it is. Which was the entire point.

 

 

 

The HIGHEST expression of mutual love is commitment......period.

 

The biggest "commitment" that the "average" married couple can make to each other is having children (and raising them) with each other. So I agree with you.

 

 

Having children is biologically driven......and a social norm (like the nonsense of marriage).

 

LOL, well at least you're honest about your anti-marriage bias.

 

Fair enough. If marriage is nonsense, then of course it doesn't matter if OP's wife shags the old high school flame. I don't happen to think marriage is nonsense, but you're entitled to a differing point of view of course.

 

 

Over 40 percent of births are to unwed mothers.

Over 23 percent of Pre-marital conception lead to marriage.

 

We're not talking about "unwed" mothers nor "premarital" conception, are we?

 

 

 

Sound like ****ING more than love to me.

 

Like I said, I have no problem acknowledging that your parents didn't love each other, they didn't love you, and that your conception and birth was an unfortunate and unintended accident on their part, which did not signify that they loved each other, or you.

 

Is that what your point is? Even if it's true, how does your situation apply to anyone else?

 

 

 

Yes, for two people that are deeply in love, having a child CAN be an expression of love.

It can also destroy relationships for a variety of reasons (jealousy, post pardum depression etc).

 

OK, marriage is nonsense; having children is nonsense; obviously if marriage is nonsense, then "marital fidelity" is nonsensical as well.

 

Why not just cut straight to the point and tell OP that he's silly to be upset that his wife cheated on him and told him she didn't love him anymore?

 

Or are you now going to contradict your "marriage is nonsense" statement by claiming that you believe a non-marital commitment of fidelity is NOT equally nonsensical to the marital commitment of fidelity?

 

I get it. "Less is more." Don't make a real commitment, such as marriage or having children deliberately (not as an accident), because people who make a commitment take a risk and can get hurt.

 

I understand. Really I do. You got burned really badly, I don't know how, but really badly.

 

 

 

Many married people THINK that a child will bring them happiness, but USUALLY it does not (happiness is from self). When the dust settles, they have affairs, live unhappily, or get divorced.

 

FEW married people believe that having children with each other WILL NOT bring them happiness. THAT WAS THE POINT. What don't you understand about that point? Whether they are USUALLY RIGHT or not is I guess a matter of opinion. OP was stating that HE believed that having a child would NOT bring him happiness. I was simply pointing out that his opinion was greatly the exception, not the rule. I made no claim that, had HE ACTUALLY HAD CHILDREN WITH HIS WIFE, they would have been happy.

 

 

 

Married people WITHOUT children represent 30% of the pop, hardly as UNCOMMON as you point out to the poster.

 

How many married couples in very long term marriages DELIBERATELY CHOOSE NOT TO EVER HAVE CHILDREN, WHEN THEY ARE PHYSICALLY CAPABLE OF IT, WITH ABSOLUTELY NO SECOND-GUESSING NOR ANY REGRETS? By the way where are you getting your stats from? You do realize that within the 30% there are probably quite a few who have not had children YET? And quite a few others who WOULD HAVE IF THEY COULD HAVE? And quite a few others where one of the spouses wanted to but the other did not?

 

I am personally aware of ZERO long term married couples where BOTH of the parents NEVER EVER wanted to have children, if they were capable of having them. IF THIS WERE ACTUALLY THE CASE THEN OP WOULD HAVE HAD A VASECTOMY AND/OR HIS SPOUSE WOULD HAVE HAD HER TUBES TIED, AT SOME POINT DURING THE MARRIAGE. MEN WHO ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY DO NOT WANT ANY CHILDREN, OR ANY MORE CHILDREN, USUALLY HAVE VASECTOMIES. OR THE FEMALE HAS HER TUBES TIED. OR BOTH.

 

 

 

 

MORE PEOPLE SHOULD DECIDE TO NOT HAVE CHILDREN LIKE THIS MAN AND WIFE DID.

 

I agree with you but for different reasons than you have.

 

 

 

I see the HORRIBLE results of children from irresponsible parents.

 

Are you saying the OP and his wife didn't have children because they believed they would have made bad parents? I didn't see that anywhere.

 

 

This was THEIR choice....and probably a WISE choice.

 

Probably a wise choice but again not for the reasons you think.

 

 

BACK THE **** OFF OF HIM WITH YOUR KIDDIE ISSUES.

http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0020/table1.html

 

I don't have "kiddie issues." I have children, love them, and having and raising children in a loving marital relationship has been the most rewarding emotional experience of my life.

 

I highly reccommend it to those capable of it.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Get both your points, but keep your eyes on the prize and desparate_man's OP. For the record, I can appreciate not having kids, but that is a profound decision for one to make in their teens as they did.

 

Vestigalvirgin though is 100% correct that it is highly unusual and the chances of a long-term marriage are frankly not high. So what is wrong with stating that.

 

Add to that, what seems like a very boring life in the same small town, few friends (probably all married with children), little drinking/socializing, low stress jobs (i.e. little overtime), or high level positions.... the fact they've lasted 30 years is quite extraordinary.

 

I am not shocked that she is having a mid-life crisis/questioning her life and wanting more.

 

Heck sounds like she has lived an incredibly sheltered boring life.....

Edited July 12, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[Toodamnpragmatic]

He is NOT correct.....unless you define 'HIGHLY UNUSUAL'.

 

For me....that means a VERY low percentage.

Its not.

 

It's not RARE statistically, and for me personally ..... as well as several friends.

A SIZEABLE, real, tangible portion of the pop DOES NOT WANT KIDS.

 

Again, a full 30% of married people don't have kids.

 

I DO agree that SOME of that percentage wants kids, but can't have them.

 

BUT THERE ARE ALSO THOSE THAT DID NOT WANT KIDS AND GOT PREGNANT.

 

So, again....making a really rough estimate....I would say AT LEAST 10% are married, don't have kids, and don't want any. That is not RARE, or HIGHLY UNUSUAL.

 

This percentage (as we all know) has increased over the years. Thus the 'DINK's" expression.

 

Really I'd put the % married over 20 years (first marriages) with no children, married in their 20's by choice probably under 2% if not lower..... And no I am not going to research it.

 

It is unusual.... Please don't say anything different. And get back on thread topic if you have some opinion to share......

[vestigalvirgin]

Having children has NOTHING to do with the love people have for one another.

 

So then in your opinion, do people prefer to have, and do tend to have, more children with people they hate, as opposed to having children with people they love?

 

Or perhaps you mean it's random: People have no preference whether they have children with someone they hate vs. having children with someone they love?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

"The National Center of Health Statistics confirms that the percentage of women of childbearing age who define themselves as voluntarily childless is on the rise: from 2.4 percent in 1982, to 4.3 percent in 1990, to 6.6 percent in 1995 (the most recent available figure). That's 4.1 million women saying no to motherhood in 1995.

 

Over 6% according to The National Center of Health Statistics in 1995, which is statistically significant, and NOT rare.....and more that 3X times than your estimate.

 

It's not UNUSUAL...again.....you are arguing facts with your opinion.

 

but you are missing the point..... Child bearing age is 18, not 28 or 38...... What someone says at 18, may be profoundly different 10, 20 years down the line. Also we have people who don't want marriage or children, are not monogomous or maybe gay and do not want children as per their lifestyle.....

 

This is a case of a MARRIED COUPLE, together since their teens for 30 years, who frankly are in the same town, no stress (at least not significant since no overtime) jobs, who have not grown a whole lot..... A completely different story altogether.....

Edited July 12, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[vestigalvirgin]

My statement is "Having children has NOTHING to do with the love people have for one another."

 

 

I interpreted this statement by you as meaning that a couple's love for each other is completely uncorrelated with whether or not they have children with each other, or would like to under ideal circumstances.

 

 

They are mutually exclusive.

 

"Mutual exclusivity" is not the same thing as lack of correlation. Mutual exclusivity of two conditions means they are negatively correlated to 100%. Mutual exclusion is not at all the same as non-correlation of two conditions.

[vestigalvirgin]

Silly me....you earlier baited me to play the devils advocate. It's obvious that you understand me completely.

 

FYI, I meant NOT mutually exclusive.

 

Thank you for correcting yourself.

 

However, I have never claimed that they were mutually exclusive either. So I guess we are in agreement.