RobertLS Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I've often wondered why people stay in long-term marriages that aren't happy. I'm sure everyone's seen the older couple sitting at a restaurant table, eating but not talking. Looks really sad. I'm sure when most couples get married, they don't realize how much work will be involved until many years of living together. Once they do realize how much work is involved, it seems that some couples either decide not to do the work, or they try to do the work but it fails, and they then decide to stay married even though they're not happy. I had an appt w/ a counselor a couple days ago for some marriage-related issues of my own. When I told her how long I've been married, 26 years, she said that in her experience, very few long-term marriages are truly happy. A lot of couples in long-term marriages stay together for a variety of reasons. but they aren't really that happy. She then gave me a point of view which I thought was interesting and which I wanted to see what others on this forum thought. She said that marriage has been around a very long time, and when the "until death do us part" vow came into being, people had much shorter lifespans than they do now, like around 35-40 years. Back then, "until death do us part" meant living together for maybe 15-20 years. With today's longer lifespans, "until death do us part" means more like 65-70 years. That's a really long time, and it's no wonder people have to work hard to mark it work that long. 65-70 years gives people a lot of time to grow apart or get bored with each other, and unless they either get lucky or work hard to grow together, it's easy to end up with a lifeless marriage. Her point made me wonder if it's reasonable to believe in "until death do us part" if we're living so much longer these days. I wonder how many couples stay in unhappy marriages just because they said "until death do us part," and they feel that they have to honor that commitment. I'm sure some stay in unhappy marriages because of kids, or because they don't want to go through the process of divorce, or they don't feel like starting over, but how many do it because of their vows? On a related issue, when I mentioned the counselor's point of view to my OTHER counselor (a marriage counselor that my wife and I are seeing jointly), she agreed that 65-70 years is a long time to stay married. She feels that in order to do it successfully, your marriage has to go through a few iterations of death and re-birth. It's like after X number of years, you have to sit down with your spouse and redefine what you want in your marriage. Your marriage has to change along with the changes that you and your spouse are naturally going through as you age. If you and your spouse change, but you hold on to an unchanging view of your marriage, you're bound to be disappointed. Anyone out there have any ideas on this or any other ideas for keeping a long-term marriage happy? Link to post Share on other sites
Kasan Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Your post is kind of ironic. I am guessing that your marriage was happy for a long time, and suspect that you could have been giving tips on keeping a long-term marriage happy. Your counselor is correct.....Your marriage has to change along with the changes that you and your spouse are naturally going through as you age. If not, then one gets left behind. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 She feels that in order to do it successfully, your marriage has to go through a few iterations of death and re-birth. It's like after X number of years, you have to sit down with your spouse and redefine what you want in your marriage. Your marriage has to change along with the changes that you and your spouse are naturally going through as you age. If you and your spouse change, but you hold on to an unchanging view of your marriage, you're bound to be disappointed. truer words have never been spoken, and I think a person's unwillingness (or incapability) to accept that a relationship is a living, breathing entity that needs to be fed and cared for is what leads to its demise. In reality, you and your spouse are NOT the same people 1, 5, 10 or 20+ years after you first exchanged vows! how to keep a marriage viable (my substitution for your term "Happy")? Learn to be open-minded to growth so that you can roll with the punches and weather whammies thrown your way. Learn to fight fairly. Don't be afraid to invest in marriage enrichment opportunities (retreats, counseling, etc) even when you are no real problems you're experiencing. most of all, let the other person know that no matter how unhappy you are about a situation, or even want to pinch their head off for being a dumbass, the relationship is based on a bedrock of love that isn't going to change even though you're experiencing problems or emotions that may be contrary to what you think love is. Link to post Share on other sites
lonelyandfrustrated Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 My grandparents were happily married for 65 years, until death did they part! I'm sure there were some bumps along the way that I was not privy to, but from what I could tell, they simply adored each other. Grandpa was still pinching her rear, which is kinda gross when you think about it. But change? I don't think I really saw that. They lived in the same house the entire time, and Grandpa still had the same job while Grandma was the homemaker. Hm. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 babies are a huge change of lifestyle; so are finances; family matters, etc. SOunds like your grandparents had already hashed out a united front on how to approach matters, leaving them time to really enjoy each other and their marriage. Grandpa was still pinching her rear, which is kinda gross when you think about it. naw, that's actually kind of sweet. I hope my husband is still holding my hand and smooching me in public when we hit our golden years! Link to post Share on other sites
Author RobertLS Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 Your post is kind of ironic. I am guessing that your marriage was happy for a long time, and suspect that you could have been giving tips on keeping a long-term marriage happy. No, actually our marriage has been unhappy for a long time. We have been living in isolation, just cruising along, not really paying attention to the decay that was happening. For the last few months, I've been questioning why stay married if we're not happy. In counseling, we've both seen how much work we have to do to get back on track, and we've both wondered if it's worth it. We've finally decided to roll up our sleeves, work together on our marriage, and see if we can improve it. If not, we've decided that we don't want to stay like we have been for the last 10-15 years, and we'll split up. Our counseling has given us a lot of insight into our past and how it has led to our present situation. I'm always open to new thoughts, and I wanted to see what others think about keys to maintaining a satisfying long-term marriage. I appreciate your and quankanne's confirmation that a marriage has to change. And lonelyandfrustrated's grandparents appear to be an example of a couple that stayed happy for a long time WITHOUT change. If that's true and they didn't change much, then that's what I meant originally when I said you either have to get lucky (the grandparents) or you have to work hard. My wife and I didn't get lucky, and we're looking for ways to revive things. Link to post Share on other sites
Mustang Sally Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Well, good for you for even being willing to look for ways to revive things. That is a start, no? Why have you been so unhappy for so long, do you think? Link to post Share on other sites
Kasan Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 In counseling, we've both seen how much work we have to do to get back on track, and we've both wondered if it's worth it. We've finally decided to roll up our sleeves, work together on our marriage, and see if we can improve it. I think that there is every reason to believe that the both will be able to salvage your marriage. You both realize the amount of effort that needs to be done to save this and are committed to taking the steps to make this work, whereas in some marriages only one of the partners is trying. I think the both of you are being very smart about all of this. Exhaust every avenue before you call it quits, and if it can't be worked out, it can't be worked out, but on the other hand, maybe it can? How to keep a long-term marriage happy? On some days, I can rattle off 100 things and on other days, I can tell you I honestly don't know. My mind will draw a blank. Sound familiar huh? Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 My take on all of it? if it's going to reguire all sorts of "work" why bother ? Part on friendly terms and move on, a new relationship ius also work but at least you'll get the satisfaction and thrill of newness again. Why continue flogging a dead horse? Link to post Share on other sites
NewSunrise Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 A marriage is like owning a partnership business. If partners in the business neglect to maintain it and grow along with changing time, it will fail. If partners don't take opportunities to strengthen the business/marriage, they will be forced to play catch up. At this point, counseling and reorganizing become a necessity in order to get back on track and possibly avoid bankruptcy. Marriage or the "certificate" of marriage can sometimes be a catch 22. While it is a blissful beginning fulfilling the fairy tale "happily ever after", it's also a silent excuse for not having to work just as hard as you did when both partners were courting---kinda like the wild kingdom. The chase vs. prey complete, aka.."I DOs". And then the "now what?" becomes the next chapter, a quandry for many marriages. Yep, marriage and business is a lot of work. But they are also equally rewarding. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I've often wondered why people stay in long-term marriages that aren't happy. I'm sure everyone's seen the older couple sitting at a restaurant table, eating but not talking. Looks really sad. I'm sure when most couples get married, they don't realize how much work will be involved until many years of living together. Once they do realize how much work is involved, it seems that some couples either decide not to do the work, or they try to do the work but it fails, and they then decide to stay married even though they're not happy. I had an appt w/ a counselor a couple days ago for some marriage-related issues of my own. When I told her how long I've been married, 26 years, she said that in her experience, very few long-term marriages are truly happy. A lot of couples in long-term marriages stay together for a variety of reasons. but they aren't really that happy. She then gave me a point of view which I thought was interesting and which I wanted to see what others on this forum thought. She said that marriage has been around a very long time, and when the "until death do us part" vow came into being, people had much shorter lifespans than they do now, like around 35-40 years. Back then, "until death do us part" meant living together for maybe 15-20 years. With today's longer lifespans, "until death do us part" means more like 65-70 years. That's a really long time, and it's no wonder people have to work hard to mark it work that long. 65-70 years gives people a lot of time to grow apart or get bored with each other, and unless they either get lucky or work hard to grow together, it's easy to end up with a lifeless marriage. Her point made me wonder if it's reasonable to believe in "until death do us part" if we're living so much longer these days. I wonder how many couples stay in unhappy marriages just because they said "until death do us part," and they feel that they have to honor that commitment. I'm sure some stay in unhappy marriages because of kids, or because they don't want to go through the process of divorce, or they don't feel like starting over, but how many do it because of their vows? Excellent thread, Robert!! I have often wondered the same thing... how many long-married couples are truly happy? Personally I don't know how they do it. The only thing I can guess at is, the VERY FEW long-term couples that DO seem to be happy, treat each other very well. It seems to be all about taking care of each other. A lot of tolerance, respect, kindness, gentleness, self-control -- Fruit of the Spirit kind of stuff. But I have no idea how they achieve that with each other!! Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Excellent thread, Robert!! I have often wondered the same thing... how many long-married couples are truly happy? Personally I don't know how they do it. The only thing I can guess at is, the VERY FEW long-term couples that DO seem to be happy, treat each other very well. It seems to be all about taking care of each other. A lot of tolerance, respect, kindness, gentleness, self-control -- Fruit of the Spirit kind of stuff. But I have no idea how they achieve that with each other!! The couples (that have children) that I see doing it successfully develop a life together where they relate to each other in a capacity beyond "Mom" and "Dad". They enjoy travel, hobbies, sports, etc. - something that is more about them as a couple than it is about them as parents. Otherwise, as the kids get older and get into their own lives, you're left staring at someone across the table that you have very little in common with... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
PandorasBox Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 My take on all of it? if it's going to reguire all sorts of "work" why bother ? Part on friendly terms and move on, a new relationship ius also work but at least you'll get the satisfaction and thrill of newness again. Why continue flogging a dead horse? Some people don't mind work. To me, anything worth having is going to to take some amount of work. I think that might be why some marriages do succeed and are happy. Two people who are pretty much on the same page about the relationship, and they work together as a team. If both are not willing to work on it, or even if just one is and the other one not, then it will never work out anyway, so yes, then it's best to move on. Link to post Share on other sites
nopainnogain Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Sorry for being off topic here for a minute. But when did the term "long term marriage" become a term:confused: I thought marriage was supposed to be long term lol Link to post Share on other sites
Groovy Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 My parents have been married 50 years and are happy. Tey raised 6 kids together and have been through they can't imagine their life without the other one. And I don't think my father ever considered leaving her with obligation to so many kids. They sit on the couch sharing gin and tonics while they squeeze each other cheeks, pat each others behind. It is so funny! My impression is that they are not sexually attracted to each other anymore and who knows when they had sex last. It's not something I care to know about mom and dad. But I do know they feel committed to each other, their families and have become like best friends through all the difficulty. That they are like one person after so many years. Maybe they stuck it out because my relatives are roman catholic, who knows. My father's memory is going and we worry about him. My mom still feels obligated and is happy to do with the love she feels. I know it can be done and it is the rare case. But when you see it, it's absolutely beautiful. Someday I hope I am in my 80's holding hands with a wrinkled out sidekick of a husband too. Link to post Share on other sites
porter218 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 My grandparents were happily married for 65 years, until death did they part! I'm sure there were some bumps along the way that I was not privy to, but from what I could tell, they simply adored each other. Grandpa was still pinching her rear, which is kinda gross when you think about it. But change? I don't think I really saw that. They lived in the same house the entire time, and Grandpa still had the same job while Grandma was the homemaker. Hm. Sounds like my grandparents. I remember staying at the beach with them one year and they thought we were out...well I overheard my grandfather chasing his W around telling her how he was going to 'give it' to her when he caught her. Ewww!. I don't think their relationship changed much at all until the very end when my step grandmother was preparing her H for her death. They always traveled the world regularly and seemed to be deeply in love. It was really sweet and sad at the same time the way my grandfather grieved for his wife when she passed. He would tell us about how all the women in the neighborhood(widows too) came knocking at his door looking for a relationship with him and he said he tried but always ended up comparing them to his late wife and he said that nobody could come close. He still hasn't dated and it has been around 6 years. I think a good match should stay happy for those 65-70 yrs it is just about finding 'the one'. My grandfather loved his wife for about 70 yrs and still holds her faithfully in his heart 6yrs after her passing..I want that type of M. I guess maybe they didn't have to change their relationship much because they never had any kids?? No empty nest issues when the nest was never full. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RobertLS Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Well, good for you for even being willing to look for ways to revive things. That is a start, no? Why have you been so unhappy for so long, do you think? I shouldn't have said we've been unhappy. We can live together fine. We're not hostile towards each other, and we don't dislike each other. It's just that we've been living separate lives. It's not what either one of us anticipated marriage would be like. We're both at fault for not working to keep our marriage alive. We got busy with work, school, kids, etc, and we both realize now that all along we figured we could postpone work on our marriage until later. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RobertLS Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 I think that there is every reason to believe that the both will be able to salvage your marriage. You both realize the amount of effort that needs to be done to save this and are committed to taking the steps to make this work, whereas in some marriages only one of the partners is trying. Your point about only one of the partners trying is where we were not too long ago. I was questioning why stay married and wondering if the work to get things back on track would be worth the effort. My wife, on the other hand, felt that we still had a lot going for us and wanted to work things out. I still go back and forth, but I think as long as she sees hope, I can't make a unilateral decision to leave. Getting married was a joint decision, and I think separation should be a joint decision too ...... in general -- I'm sure there are exceptional situations like abuse, or alcoholism, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RobertLS Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 My take on all of it? if it's going to reguire all sorts of "work" why bother ? Part on friendly terms and move on, a new relationship ius also work but at least you'll get the satisfaction and thrill of newness again. Why continue flogging a dead horse? I know what you mean. That's how I feel when I go back and forth. Is it really going to be worth the work? I guess one reason I want to try to work things out is if I didn't, I might regret later that I didn't. And also, since my wife doesn't think the horse is dead yet, I'll keep flogging it Link to post Share on other sites
Author RobertLS Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 A marriage is like owning a partnership business. If partners in the business neglect to maintain it and grow along with changing time, it will fail. If partners don't take opportunities to strengthen the business/marriage, they will be forced to play catch up. At this point, counseling and reorganizing become a necessity in order to get back on track and possibly avoid bankruptcy. Marriage or the "certificate" of marriage can sometimes be a catch 22. While it is a blissful beginning fulfilling the fairy tale "happily ever after", it's also a silent excuse for not having to work just as hard as you did when both partners were courting---kinda like the wild kingdom. The chase vs. prey complete, aka.."I DOs". And then the "now what?" becomes the next chapter, a quandry for many marriages. Yep, marriage and business is a lot of work. But they are also equally rewarding. Good analogy. But it brought to mind a couple of failed attempts I've made at starting my own business. I soon realized that I'm much better off working for someone else and letting them handle the work of maintaining the business. Is there any way to be married and NOT do a lot of work? I guess not, but I wish there was. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RobertLS Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Excellent thread, Robert!! I have often wondered the same thing... how many long-married couples are truly happy? Personally I don't know how they do it. The only thing I can guess at is, the VERY FEW long-term couples that DO seem to be happy, treat each other very well. It seems to be all about taking care of each other. A lot of tolerance, respect, kindness, gentleness, self-control -- Fruit of the Spirit kind of stuff. But I have no idea how they achieve that with each other!! I agree completely!!! Especially the part about having no idea how to do it. That's probably the underlying motive for starting this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RobertLS Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 The couples (that have children) that I see doing it successfully develop a life together where they relate to each other in a capacity beyond "Mom" and "Dad". They enjoy travel, hobbies, sports, etc. - something that is more about them as a couple than it is about them as parents. Otherwise, as the kids get older and get into their own lives, you're left staring at someone across the table that you have very little in common with... Mr. Lucky You are SO right. That's exactly what happened. The only think we kept in common over the years was raising our two kids. Our daughter just left for college and our son is only 2 years behind her. And we're starting to see that we have developed separate interests that don't have much in common with each other. What do we do now? That's what we're trying to answer. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RobertLS Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Some people don't mind work. To me, anything worth having is going to to take some amount of work. I think that might be why some marriages do succeed and are happy. Two people who are pretty much on the same page about the relationship, and they work together as a team. If both are not willing to work on it, or even if just one is and the other one not, then it will never work out anyway, so yes, then it's best to move on. "Work together as a team." That's a good point. My wife is willing to work on it, and I'm "sort of" willing to work. If I had a crystal ball and could see that all the work would pay off, I think I'd be more motivated. As it is, I find myself sometimes really wanting to make things work and other times feeling that I'm doing it more for her than for us. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RobertLS Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Sorry for being off topic here for a minute. But when did the term "long term marriage" become a term:confused: I thought marriage was supposed to be long term lol Not at all off topic. That's exactly what I meant by questioning the "until death do us part" vow. That vow does imply long term, but when that vow was apparently introduced, "long term" was not nearly as long as it is now. And maybe that's why long term marriages require a lot of work to successfully maintain. Link to post Share on other sites
Author RobertLS Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 My parents have been married 50 years and are happy. Tey raised 6 kids together and have been through they can't imagine their life without the other one. And I don't think my father ever considered leaving her with obligation to so many kids. They sit on the couch sharing gin and tonics ..... Now that you mention it, .... my wife and I do seem to get along better after a drink or two. Maybe that's the answer!!! Link to post Share on other sites
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