Wife thinks I don't need her for anything...big problem

[LankyGuy]

Hi,

 

My wife and I just got in a fight and somehow it led to something that has come up MANY times over the years. She says that I don't need her for anything... This is a HUGE thing with her and something that she really has a problem with...and I'm not sure about what to do.

 

It also came up earlier tonight at dinner (before the fight) and I told her I do need her...for conversation, companionship, and sex ( the last one is wishful thinking)... In the fight later on, I told her that I'm intelligent and independent so I'm pretty self sufficient...she doesn't seem to like that/embrace that. I told her I liked that she was independent when I met her...that's a turn-on to me...I didn't want a needy wife.

 

It seems like the main thing that my wife wants me to need her for is for her cooking and grocery shopping....that's usually what the fights center on. I always thank her for cooking dinner and I always compliment her on it...I don't know what else to do. She wants me to be one of those guys who is DEPENDENT on their wife for dinner and shopping (her father is that way). And she says she wishes I liked food more...she wants me to be excited about food, I guess. I like it, but I'm not a "foody" like some guys.

 

I originally fell in love with my wife for lots of reasons. To me it's a bonus that she cooks and shops but I CAN DO THOSE THINGS MYSELF... or even hire somebody. I need her for the things I can only get from her. I told her again about the conversation and companionship that I need and she said "Then go get a friend"...I can't win!

 

I hope it doesn't feel like I'm just venting again...I really do not know what to do. I've been trying to meet my wife's most unmet needs...mainly receiving compliments and getting little notes (feeling special). She's been really happy with me recently, but this came up and now things are messy again.

 

I know we all want to feel needed, but I did not fall in love with my wife for her cooking. I think a wife should offer more than that to a husband, and she does.

 

Should I just be thanking her more for the things she does, the cooking and shopping? I still won't NEED her those things, but I guess that's all I can do? It's like the thanks is not enough, though. She wants to FEEL that I'm dependent on her...

 

Sometimes I think my wife would be happier with a simple meat and potatoes "the way to his heart is through his stomach" kind of guy...that's just not me...I've struggled with this for years.

 

I'm curious what you all think. I've been focusing on meeting her needs (Harley's book) but I wasn't thinking about this angle I guess...I guess it's the need of being needed.

 

Thanks for your help...

[Florida]

She should have some real problems, that is silly.

Does she argue about the toothpaste cap being off or on?

Sheesh....

 

I bet that is how her mother showed love to her dad, so that is her language of love.

See-each person has a different language of love. One tends to do things THEY think are sweet because that is what they want back.

 

So she is demonstrating actions. Okay-so never cook or shop again and you will be very dependent on her for food.

 

Problem solved! Now go kiss and make up.

 

Of course if this isn't meeting YOUR language of Love-that's a real issue too. You have to read that book, then explain to her how you feel loved, you have to understand how she reads/needs love and both do just that.

 

She isn't going to talk and get her needs met, you won't bwe cooked for and feel loved, so a compromise is needed. And you boh need to respect that in eachother and not try to force what each of you think is correct on to oneanother.

 

Also-you should tell her to come to this board and read some REAL problems! just kidding!

Edited December 23, 2007 by Florida

[LankyGuy]

Thanks for your input. Yes, she models our relationship after her parents', but I think it's unintentional. Ironic, becuase she thinks their relationship is terrible, but after a week's visit from them, I saw that she treats me nearly identical to how her mom treats her dad...like a kid, actually.

 

This IS a huge problem and its something that comes up a lot and causes huge stress in our marriage which is racked with many other problems too. We've had many fights over the "you don't need me" thing and it gets bad because I have have a hard time saying I need her for things I don't need her for...like grocery shopping and cooking.

 

She really wants me to need her...it really is a need of hers and she resents me greatly for not needing her. Ironically I am extremely independent and self-sufficient...probably one of my defining traits and it seems to make her sick at times....it's a shame...

 

Those are good points...A sad thing is that I realized that two of my top needs are sex and intellectual conversation/stimulation. Sex is something that she turns her nose up at and would preferably live without, and the deep thinking stuff is something that she does not enjoy and feels that she cannot do...although she does have a high IQ (gifted, etc). Cooking is not at the top of my list, unfortunately :-/

 

By the way, she does give me trouble for not putting the cap on my toothpaste, but I give her trouble for leaving her shoes laying all around the house :-)

[kkthxbye]

Do you two have children? I went through a phase where I needed to mother something. I can't have children, and hubby likes his peace and quiet away from me some weekends. I needed something to do. And I like to be needed as well. I took up some hobbies, and joined a doll collecting and restoration site. Got my mothering thing taken care of, plus was able to teach people how to restore older dolls. I felt needed and dealt with my non-mommy hood urges I struggled with.

 

One way to feed a needy wife is to take a trip to a place she is familiar with, but you're not so much. That way she can show you around, take you to diners or restaurants she likes, and you sort of "need" her to show you places you wouldn't know about. Its like accidental fulfillment if that makes sense.

 

Think outside the box of your home, and find creative ways to help her fulfill this need? Hobbies, or online groups where people need her opinion, or help with a project, may help a little ease off of looking directly to you for that fulfillment. I have a job in a bank where I'm needed for something every moment. Now when my hubby really does need me for something, I have to muster energy when before I took this job I was there front and center with bells on.

 

Hopefully she will encourage herself to chill out a little bit and not put such a strain on you about this. Sometimes if you show an interest in fixing a part of the marriage, your SO will begin to catch on and hopefully work this out w/you on her end as well. GL to you

[Woggle]

A man should never need a woman. Nothing wrong with wanting her but never need her. If you do need her she has you wrapped around her finger and can quickly use that against you.

[allina]

A man should never need a woman. Nothing wrong with wanting her but never need her. If you do need her she has you wrapped around her finger and can quickly use that against you.

 

Yes, just like a woman should never need a man. A romantic relationship will never be healthy if it's based on need.

[White Flower]

There is a great book called The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. http://www.fivelovelanguages.com/ It may be that acts of service is how your wife feels loved and so that is how she shows you love. You seem to be the kind of man who responds to words of affirmation as love. If you told her, "Gee honey, your hard work and dedication to providing this nutritious and delicious meal means so much to us." She would feel that all her hard work was rewarded with love. Then she might say, Oh honey, just knowing that you appreciate all I've done makes me feel like you're a man who truly understands and respects me." Those words would probably be rewarding to someone who appreciates a good conversation.

[LankyGuy]

Kkthxbye, no we don't have kids yet, and she is definintely the mothering type...she's an elementary teacher so I guess that's a good fit...25 kids and 50 parents who need her. I like your ideas...my wife doesn't have hobbies, but she does get to show me around and teach me when we go to her hometown...after 14 years together, I kinda have it down though ;-) This is something that is huge to her...she just needs to be needed...tough because I have an aversion to being needy....probably one of my issues.

 

Woggle and Allina, you're probably right. I talked about this to my wife this morning and it's apparent that she disagrees 100%. That may be one reason why we don't have a "romantic" relationship....neediness is kind of smothering to me, I think.

 

WhiteFlower, I'll look for that book. I'm going to the bookstore soon anyways. Thanks for your tips. You're right...she shows love by doing deeds...her Mom is the same way. For me, I just like conversation because I like seeing passion in the other person's eyes...and it allows me to talk about things I'm passionate about so they can see it in my eyes. It's not so much about verbal affirmation...

[serial muse]

Five Love Languages is definitely a useful concept - I agree with everyone about that.

 

I just wanted to add that it sounds like she's really insecure about your love for her; obviously she equates "being needed" with security, because it means she's an integral part of your life - and therefore you won't leave. (Especially if she's aware she's not meeting other important needs you have, which is bound to make her worry.) I wonder if there was something that happened between her parents at some point, where it either became clear to her, or she suspected, that her father stuck around because her mother was so good at taking care of him. Therefore, taking care of a man = security, a kind of insurance policy against you leaving, perhaps?

 

Is there a way you guys can sit down and talk about why she feels this way? It does sound like there's a miscommunication somewhere (which is where that book will come in handy).

 

The other thing that occurred to me is that you said that your needs are sex and stimulating conversation, neither of which she feels she's good at (so of course that's going to work on a person's mind). She does need to figure out a way to meet your needs as well, but what I'm wondering is whether she has always felt that way? What are the qualities that she possesses that make her unique and that you do value in her?

Edited December 23, 2007 by serial muse

[Star Gazer]

There is a great book called The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. http://www.fivelovelanguages.com/ It may be that acts of service is how your wife feels loved and so that is how she shows you love. You seem to be the kind of man who responds to words of affirmation as love. If you told her, "Gee honey, your hard work and dedication to providing this nutritious and delicious meal means so much to us." She would feel that all her hard work was rewarded with love. Then she might say, Oh honey, just knowing that you appreciate all I've done makes me feel like you're a man who truly understands and respects me." Those words would probably be rewarding to someone who appreciates a good conversation.

 

That's really not how the book operates. If HER love language is acts of service, that means she needs him to perform acts of service for HER in order for her to feel loved. In other words, in order to show HER love, HE is supposed to perform acts of service. If HIS love language is words of affirmation, she needs to appreciate/thank him. The toughest part is figuring out the other person's love language.

 

But yes, I'd recommend that book as well.

[morelaugh]

I think this is quite simple.

 

She thinks she is good in cooking and expects you to appreciate that. In return, you convey the message that you can hire a mobile chef to do the same job. Effectively, you tell her she can be easily replaced

 

Everyone wants to be appreciated for the things they are good at.

 

And, quite realistically, everyone can be replaced – but that is not the point (I hope)

 

Why do you think your for need sex and intellectual conversation is different from your wife’s need for acknowledgment of her cooking endeavours?

 

If you try to accept your wife cooking as her hobby, or as her passion, maybe you can get closer to understanding her needs?

 

In my case, my H is a passionate cook, so I can understand.

He also needs an acknowledgment for that. And trust me; it is a hard job to make an exquisite meal.

 

What if your wife tells you – the sex was fine, but I could hire someone to do the same job?

 

You don’t always have to have the same hobbies and the same passions to be able to appreciate each other achievements.

 

She wants to feel special. Most of us do.

 

Instead, for some reason, you are showing her all the time how you don’t need her.

 

But this may be totally wrong as I don’t know much about you at all.

 

Do you still love her?

[Ronni_W]

I originally fell in love with my wife for lots of reasons. ... I know we all want to feel needed, but I did not fall in love with my wife for her cooking.

 

Have you tried making a list and sharing with her all the things that you do love, value and appreciate about her?

 

Not sure how you could help her understand and accept that you are just not as passionate about food as she is...and that there is nothing wrong with either of your approaches to it.

 

Maybe it'll help to say to effect of, "Look, I really don't like that you are asking me to over-simplify everything you mean to me, and boil it down into just shopper-cook" ?

 

My brother's wife also only feels truly self-confident about her cooking -- she places all her worth on that. He now really does not enjoy anything about food and meal-times, and is still as far away as ever on helping her improve her overall self-esteem.

[LankyGuy]

serialmuse, yes, she's always been insecure about it. She has self esteem problems and a need for affirmation that she's worth something as a human. The counselor we went to suggested she address this first...Yes, she does feel that her parents are married only because her mom cooks and shops and her dad works...neither of them can do the other (so they think). Her dad has never stepped foot in a grocery store or opened a can of beans...her mom has never had a job or educated herself. I think you're right...she likes the idea of a "kept" man since he'll never leave...

 

We fell in love at 18/19 and perhaps that's why we struggle now. Back then sex was great, and I really liked how she was independent, planned little trips for us, and talked to people/had lots of friends. She still plans our trips and is social, but she no longer likes sex and is no longer independent in my opinion...she's become needy and has an aversion to sex, so we're no longer intimate (from my perspective although she said she feels close).

 

We got in a huge fight a few weeks ago where she almost left...she basically said "don't let me go because you'll have to cook for yourself and pay all the bills on your own"...I want to want her for more than that stuff.

 

She knows I like intellectual conversation and sex, and feels that she can't provide it, but I don't pressure her for it...these are needs that I just won't get met, I think.

 

Star gazer, you're correct...she does want me to perform small deeds for her...and she does think that I want small deeds. I tell her that that isn't what MY needs are and that's when we get back into the fight that I don't need her for anything, etc. That's incorrect, I do need her, just not for the things she's willing to provide for the most part...she has no hobbies or passions, so it makes it hard for her to bring stimulating conversation to our marriage. I have lots of things that I want to learn and do and enjoy telling her about it, but then she'll say things like "I wish you were as into me as you are into X"...ironically those things I'm passionate about are what made me an interesting person to her when we met. Now, they're just competition for her...something got off kilter somewhere.

 

Morelaugh, I think you got me wrong. I DO compliment her on her cooking as much as I can, but the problem is that I don't show EXCITEMENT about her cooking...food just doesn't excite me that much, I guess...that's why I'm a lanky guy ;-)

 

Your point about everyone being replaceable...not the point I was trying to make...I cannot replace her for things like conversation with her, companionship with her, or sex with her. Cooking is just a service that we do not do together...yes, we eat together and I value that time, but someone else could provide the food. For example...I work on our cars and house myself, and cut our grass and she appreciates it, but if I paid someone to do that it wouldn't necessarily affect our relationship assuming we could afford it. Now if I paid someone else to provide me sex, that's different because it's something we do together.

 

You're right...I realized last night that her need to be needed is a need that I need to meet. I have to be more sensitive to that...

 

No, we don't have to have the same passions and hobbies...I don't want her to...just for ours to overlap a little. I'd love her to have more so that she can focus on things other than me and I could see her get excited about something and draw me closer to her. I guess her only passion/hobby is cooking so the overlap would be me showing her appreciation and excitement.

 

I don't show her all the time that I don't need her...at least not intentionally/verbally. It comes out at times...it's not something I ever bring up...that would be kind of disrespectful/hurtful I think. I'm just so independent (to a fault) and she just needs me to need her.

 

Do I love her...yes...but I feel so disconnected from her that the love has become more sisterly or like that of a cousin, friend or roommate...probably even less than that. Sometimes when she's looking into my eyes I just don't see into her soul...and I used to. I just feel pressure on my chest and think to myself "please stop looking at me". It's terrible. I hate to admit that it no longer phases me to see her cry, and when she screams and yells at me, I just stare at her, not really feeling it. There is no passion or intimacy in our relationship... She is fine with that and is happy as long as I make her feel special. She says she feels very close to me but I don't feel like I can come out from my shell most of the time so I don't feel close to her.

 

I realized a few months ago that I'm unhappy in the relationship and my needs have not been met for many many years...possibly 10 years or more... Basically I turned my back to the unhappiness for many years and now that I'm educating myself I'm finding that I'm getting better at meeting her needs and figuring out what mine actually are. Unfortunately my need of intellectual stimulation may be a "newer" once since I've grown up since our dating days, and sex is something that she really wishes she didn't have to meet. Although I have gotten by since I'm a "do-it-yourselfer" this kills any hope of closenesss and intimacy with her...

 

Our friends and family think we have a GREAT relationship, but it really is a mess.

[Mr. Lucky]

and sex is something that she really wishes she didn't have to meet. Although I have gotten by since I'm a "do-it-yourselfer" this kills any hope of closenesss and intimacy with her...

So she wants you to need her, but not for sex ? Maybe her other "acts of service" are a substitute for intimacy, either unwillingly given or unwillingly received...

 

Mr. Lucky

[LankyGuy]

So she wants you to need her, but not for sex ? Maybe her other "acts of service" are a substitute for intimacy, either unwillingly given or unwillingly received...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Pretty much, and I've let her "get away" with it for so many years that a lot of damage has been done. I think I've also let her get away with screaming at me and calling me the worst names in the book during fights. Now I'm paying for it...

[Mr. Lucky]

Pretty much, and I've let her "get away" with it for so many years that a lot of damage has been done. I think I've also let her get away with screaming at me and calling me the worst names in the book during fights. Now I'm paying for it...

I think your problem is a lot bigger and broader based than "Wife thinks I don't need her for anything". I also don't think that your fights are really about food and dinner. Lots going on here (barely) below the surface. The two of you have gotten into some really bad habits as a couple, and you've let them hang unaddressed for way too long. Time for you to make several decisions, primary which is this - Is this how you want to live the rest of your life ? If the answer is "no", then you've both got some work to do...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Trialbyfire]

It appears that your wife "needs" a codependent style relationship and you need a more individualized/independent relationship. It appears that codependency makes her feel secure.

 

lankyguy, I think the two of you need to go back to MC. If nothing else, it might help to illustrate the differences v. the sameness, and help the two of you come to some hard decisions about your marriage.

[LankyGuy]

Mr Lucky, you're definitely correct. There are a lot of big issues and this is just one of them. This fight last night came up after another one...it was more a secondary fight that came out of nowhere.

 

The MC basically suggested we were incompatible...Trialbyfire, my wife definitely wants a codependent relationship...I agree.

 

Sometimes I think it will be impossible for us to meet each other's needs. I feel like I work to meet her needs and try to compromise to keep her happy and she works to meet the ones I don't have...if that makes any sense.

 

In some of our recent fights (big ones) when we talked about the state of our R, it became apparent to me that perhaps this relationship should never have gone this far. We've each stayed due to practical reasons...and sometimes I think her "love" for me is some kind of obsession...not really a love...if that makes any sense.

 

I sometimes feel like the only way I can keep the relationship together and her happy is by doing things that make me feel unhappy, letting her treat me poorly, or by not having my needs met...which is how I've kept it together this long. This morning I asked her to apologize for calling me an ******* a few times last night and she wouldn't do it...she thought it was justified.

 

So, yeah, it's a mess...I'm pretty depressed about it.

[HokeyReligions]

sorry if I repeat others, but is there anything that you get from your wife that you have never experienced before and which you would miss and find irreplaceable? Some type of emotion or fulfillment? She may just need to know that you couldn't replace her and that there is something that you could not find with anyone else. It may be something totally esoteric, and unexplainable for either of you to put into words.

 

I have always felt that my husband could get along just fine without me, but his 'getting along' would not be the same level. He would miss me. I could go to work, pay the bills, find companionship, etc. without him too - but I couldn't really 'live' without him. I would only exist. He feels the same, even though neither of us could say why exactly. Logically we know that life would go on, and that somehow - if we each applied ourselves - we could find some measure of happiness or enjoyment again - but the thought of that is impossible. Emotionally we would be lost without the other.

 

In the early years of our marriage - probably the first 15 years! - we sought to reassure each other of that. His reassurances to me were not very compelling because he spoke and thought in absolutes that didn't meet my emotional needs. It seemed so shallow and it took me a long time to realize in my heart that's just how most men communicate.

[White Flower]

That's really not how the book operates. If HER love language is acts of service, that means she needs him to perform acts of service for HER in order for her to feel loved. In other words, in order to show HER love, HE is supposed to perform acts of service. If HIS love language is words of affirmation, she needs to appreciate/thank him. The toughest part is figuring out the other person's love language.

 

But yes, I'd recommend that book as well.

The book definitely has the goal of teaching the reader how to learn what their spouses love languages are, yet, typically people show the love that they want in return. That is what I was trying to convey. The OP's wife cooks to show him what kind of love she needs.

[White Flower]

What if your wife tells you – the sex was fine, but I could hire someone to do the same job?

 

You don’t always have to have the same hobbies and the same passions to be able to appreciate each other achievements.

 

She wants to feel special. Most of us do.

 

Instead, for some reason, you are showing her all the time how you don’t need her.

 

quote]

If you are saying you don't need her, yet still want her make sure she knows that you really, really want her.

 

And with the 5 Love Languages book...I posted a reply to Stargazer's post and I'd like to add another thought here. Oftentimes we show the kind of love to others that we need because that is the only kind of love we know how to show. It is a good place to start to figure out your partner's love language if you haven't yet asked them.

Edited December 24, 2007 by White Flower

[LankyGuy]

Makes sense WhiteFlower. She shows love the same way her mother shows love to her father...and her. She's modeling what she grew up around. I was raised by a single mother with no father in the picture...so my model is a woman who is very independent...and she had no one to leave her notes and give her compliments to boost her self esteem, etc.

 

May explain our differences in expectations or a spouse and relationship...

 

Thanks for your help...

[silktricks]

Having a marriage counselor tell you that you are not compatible is not exactly helpful, is it? It may also have added to your wife's insecurities. You may want to try a different MC. Does your wife tell you that she needs you? If she does, does she say (or have you asked) what it is she needs you for?

 

It's all well and good to be independent, but women were for generation upon generation trained to "take care" of their husbands and families, and if they did not do so, they were bad people (although this has changed somewhat, the underlying message most women get is still that our number one job is to "take care" of our husband). If she sees you don't need her to supply what she has been trained to believe are the "womanly" things, she may be translating that a couple of ways:

 

1. You are going to leave her (or you don't want her/love her) because what she is good at (and what she has been trained to believe she should be good at) you don't need/want from her.

 

2. She is a failure as a woman and a wife, because your need for conversation and sex she doesn't translate into a "real" need.

 

3. You don't really love her, because if you really loved her, you would need her.

 

It's hard to believe that you two have been together for a long time and you still haven't worked this one out. It seems to me that your wife needs to do a little of the work in understanding (and resolving) the issues as well.

 

Also, you won't work out a problem simply by not addressing it. The problem behavior just gets more imbedded. Do NOT allow your wife to scream at you or call you names. You must be clear that her behavior at those times is unacceptable. Sometime when you are both completely calm, let her know that any time in the future if she exhibits unacceptable behavior of that type you will leave until she calms down - then do so - anytime it happens. If she has no one to yell at (especially repeatedly) she will definitely get the idea that the behavior is counter-productive.

Edited December 24, 2007 by silktricks

[LankyGuy]

Silktricks, you're pretty insightful. I think you're right on all accounts. She doesn't tell me she needs me per se...but she admitted she stayed in the R all these years despite the problems because I bring security and financial support (and she thought I'd get better). I guess she needs me for that stuff...she says I haven't offered anything else.

 

Yes, she does want someone to take care of...she definitely needs that. It makes me feel like I'm married to a mom at times unfortunatley. Ironic because I was never a Mama's boy and am very independent (maybe even aloof) from my mom...

 

Your three bullet points are true...may even be "all the above".

 

Tonight she admitted that she's never sexually attracted to me anymore and deep down really feels that I'm an a-hole. And she feels that she's justified in screaming and calling me an a-hole when she feels that I'm being one.

 

It's ridiculous because I'm far from one...it's pretty hurtful to hear this stuff at times.

 

Thanks for the tips...those are good ideas.

 

Merry Christmas everyone...

[michelangelo]

During some of the worst fighting about unmet needs my wife trotted out this excuse for lack of sex, that she does all the laundry and was angry with me for it and too tired for sex. Her contention was that I had made her into a domestic slave.

 

It was a total bunk argument. It wasn't even true and it was her excuse for avoiding sex.

 

I had never asked her to do my laundry and made a point of always doing my own laundry. I didn't notice when she did some of my laundry and that grated on her after awhile.

 

So when she gets all dramatic about it I tell her to never, ever under any circumstances do my laundry. I mean never do it.

 

Why? Because I can do my own laundry. And I don't want her to use her hatred of doing laundry as an excuse to avoid sex.

 

Did this solve the intimacy problem between us? Hell no!

 

It wasn't about the laundry, never was.

 

But I had eliminated an excuse in the process.

 

So maybe if you do the reverse of what I did, that is, give in and acknowledge her kitchen skills then she might start using her bedroom skills again.