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If Divorce is so Lucrative for Women, Why the High Single Mother Poverty Rate?


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Mr. Lucky

Many men post here about the importance of getting a pre-nup, otherwise women will end up with everything in a divorce. And yet, if divorce is so advantageous and lucrative for women, why do 30 to 50% of Working Single Mothers (and their kids :( ) fall below Federal Poverty Guidelines? Obviously, not all single Moms are divorced, but there was a Boyfriend, Husband or Father - with accompanying assets - there at one point, eh? It seems that, despite the horror stories (She got the mine, I got the shaft!), women don't generally end up with much when the pie is cut...

 

Mr. Lucky

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I think you answered the question already-

 

I would imagine that MOST of the single mothers who are in the poverty bracket aren't divorced- either they were never married in the first place, (most likely- here in the UK its much more lucrative to live off the government if you are an unmarried mother) or if they were marrried, the divorce itself was too expensive.

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Trialbyfire

Don't forget that there are a large percentage of single mothers who started out as teenage pregnancies.

 

Not all couples who get divorced have assets.

 

Also, not all men pay their support payments. There are more than enough deadbeat fathers.

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Many men post here about the importance of getting a pre-nup, otherwise women will end up with everything in a divorce. And yet, if divorce is so advantageous and lucrative for women, why do 30 to 50% of Working Single Mothers (and their kids :( ) fall below Federal Poverty Guidelines? Obviously, not all single Moms are divorced, but there was a Boyfriend, Husband or Father - with accompanying assets - there at one point, eh? It seems that, despite the horror stories (She got the mine, I got the shaft!), women don't generally end up with much when the pie is cut...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

This is the first time I hear that a divorce is lucrative for a woman. Always heard the opposite and for both partners. It is never lucrative for any spouse... it could be for the lawyer though. They have to start from scratch each on their side. It could be to her advantage if she gets half, plus a good alimony for the kids, then she finds a new partner and share half the cost of the new house... then I could see it would be good for her... but on the other hand, the same thing can happen to him. So I am not sure it is lucrative for anyone.

 

But if I refer to my own experience, with my first ex, I was better off without him cause he was sooo greedy... and it wasn't fair financially-wise but I never complained, I didn't want to live constantly fighting about money...but that was one of the reason I left, among others.

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There have been some landmark cases in the UK lately where the male half of the couple has ended up very well off because the woman was the bigger earner of the two.

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nittygritty

Because men are not held equally liable when their sperm donation creates a child. :)

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Trialbyfire
Because men are not held equally liable when their sperm donation creates a child. :)

Actually they are held liable. There are several problems associated to this from an equitable financial support perspective. If the man doesn't want the child, why is he held liable if the woman makes the decision to have the child without his consent? The reverse of this is, if the man wants the child and the woman doesn't, he needs to take full custody of it, upon the child's birth.

 

In situations where abortion isn't possible or is abhorrent, there's always adoption.

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alphamale
It seems that, despite the horror stories (She got the mine, I got the shaft!), women don't generally end up with much when the pie is cut

it really depends on which socio-economic strata she was in to begin with. the females in higher social circles are probably going to fare much better in a divorce.

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dropdeadlegs

When speaking in general terms divorce isn't lucrative for anyone. For most couples, it is taking the income of one household and trying to stretch it out to afford two households. Most couples base their expenses on total household income and do not consider how all expenses would be paid in the event of a split.

 

Only the very rich divorces are lucrative for women, and aren't nearly as damaging to men when you consider that losing even half of several million dollars doesn't have the same affect as losing half of your 401-k valued at $30k.

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alphamale
When speaking in general terms divorce isn't lucrative for anyone.

the divorce lawyers do pretty well...mine charged me around $5,000

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dropdeadlegs
the divorce lawyers do pretty well...mine charged me around $5,000

I suppose many lawyers do pretty well, especially when their is some pettiness and outrageous demands requiring mediation. Property division can be a nightmare for some, but I've never had much property to divide. If he wanted some forks or towels, it was all fine by me.

 

My first divorce cost me $1500. My second one was free through legal aid. I bet my first one could have been free too, but I didn't know about legal aid then.

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Mr. Lucky

I was reacting to what seems to be a common thread posted here, which is that many men come to view marriage as a device women use to ultimately separate them undeservedly from some portion of their assets. It seems to part of the "bait and switch" theory, based on the contention that women use sex so that they can ensnare us for their financial gain and security. The topic has come up in many of the "Sexless Marriage" threads lately. Looking at it statistically, the theory doesn't seem to hold much water as many women, post-marriage, are left with little income and a dis-proportionate share of the child rearing expenses and responsibility.

 

Mr. Lucky

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nittygritty

I agree with dropdeadlegs that the lawyers are the only winners in divorce.

 

I'm a single divorced mom in a self-earned high tax bracket and after having personally experienced being married to a man who thought that impregnating me insured him a free ride and access to half if not more of everything I have earned. So getting screwed (no pun intended) in a divorce is an equal opportunity employer.

 

After my ex lost a full custody battle for our then infant, he moved out of state and decided he shouldn't have to and wasn't going to pay me $200.00 a month for child support (he earned $70,000 a year) and also failed to see or visit our child for 2 years. In order to protect our child from his sperm donor I had his parental rights terminated after the sperm donor threatened to start coming to our state to exercise some of his legally entitled visitation by picking our child up and then dropping our child off at a babysitter and then returning our child back to me if I tried to enforce back child support.

 

Even though I got the greatest kid in the world out of the deal, I know I'm lucky because I can financially support myself and my child by myself. I can only imagine how a teen single mom or a single mom who earns a low income copes with the stress of raising a child by yourself.

 

If Men and Women were held equally liable and accountable for the responsibility of raising a child they both created then you would see an equal number of single men and single women who are raising children below poverty level. Not just the high percentage of single moms.

 

A pre-nup doesn't protect a kid from an irresponsible parent.

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alphamale
If Men and Women were held equally liable and accountable for the responsibility of raising a child they both created then you would see an equal number of single men and single women who are raising children below poverty level. Not just the high percentage of single moms..

No you wouldn't NG....mainly cause the courts almost always grant custody to the mother.

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nittygritty

Joint Custody is the latest rage here. No child support if the child spends 90 days out of the year at either house. If the courts award 90 days out of the year of visitation no child suport is paid but the parent is not legally obligated to exercise any visitation at all, just entitled too. Our state has a very high level of single moms below poverty.

 

It just depends on your state.

 

I'm not telling you mine because I've already told too much but you can look up all the states laws online.

 

The majority of state and federal lawmakers are men. 51% percent or more have been or will be divorced with kids. hmmmm

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alphamale
The majority of state and federal lawmakers are men. 51% percent or more have been or will be divorced with kids. hmmmm

yea but they're all rich to begin with...especially the federal lawmakers. why would they want to pass laws to give away more of thier money?

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nittygritty

I think it is a human moral decency, responsible parent thing rather than a gender or socioeconomic level thing.

 

I agree with you that woman typically are awarded primary custody which isn't right. It truly should be the best interests of the child and its not.

 

Kids living in poverty is not in the best interests of anybody.

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Teddy and Jane

It is well known that women usually suffer most financially in a divorce. Men are egocentric in that they think that if they have to pay child support, or share their pension with their exwife when she spent years raising the kids and not developing a career while he was out working, he was shafted, which he wasn't. Statistics have proven over and over again that the woman suffers most financially in a divorce, although women don't sit around and whine about it, they go out and do something about it whereas men tend to sit around and whine about paying child support all the time and how they got shafted, that is a man's night of fun to them, sitting around b**ching about their exwives. I have known so many men which all they talk about is their ex and what a b**ch she is, it gets so old hearing this from men.

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Many men post here about the importance of getting a pre-nup, otherwise women will end up with everything in a divorce. And yet, if divorce is so advantageous and lucrative for women, why do 30 to 50% of Working Single Mothers (and their kids :( ) fall below Federal Poverty Guidelines? Obviously, not all single Moms are divorced, but there was a Boyfriend, Husband or Father - with accompanying assets - there at one point, eh? It seems that, despite the horror stories (She got the mine, I got the shaft!), women don't generally end up with much when the pie is cut...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I outearn my bf , I make way over six figures and he's unemployed right now.

I like being the breadwinner and earning more than the guy.

 

I would never want to get married because I'm modern and don't believe in traditional institutions, I'd rather co-habit or live together, but if I were ever to get married I would get a pre-nup to protect my assets.

 

I would NEVER want ANY alimony from a man because I outearn a lot of men and am very successful. I do not need a penny from any man. I insist on paying for myself, I even insist on splitting dinner in half on a date. I do not need any money from a man.

 

Do not automatically assume that all women earn less than men.

 

I find that assumption very offensive.

 

My bf would probably be below the poverty line if it weren't for me. Not the other way around.

 

I don't need one penny from a man.

 

I have a lot of assets, my bf does not, he only has liabilities.

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alphamale
Do not automatically assume that all women earn less than men. I find that assumption very offensive.

the fact is CG that the avg female does earn less than the avg male. and thats cause the avg female is willing to accept a lesser salary and also cause their employment tends to be more transient...

 

I have a lot of assets, my bf does not, he only has liabilities.

why are you with him then? why aren't you with neurosurgeon?

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dropdeadlegs
I outearn my bf , I make way over six figures and he's unemployed right now.

I like being the breadwinner and earning more than the guy.

 

I would never want to get married because I'm modern and don't believe in traditional institutions, I'd rather co-habit or live together, but if I were ever to get married I would get a pre-nup to protect my assets.

 

I would NEVER want ANY alimony from a man because I outearn a lot of men and am very successful. I do not need a penny from any man. I insist on paying for myself, I even insist on splitting dinner in half on a date. I do not need any money from a man.

 

Do not automatically assume that all women earn less than men.

 

I find that assumption very offensive.

 

My bf would probably be below the poverty line if it weren't for me. Not the other way around.

 

I don't need one penny from a man.

 

I have a lot of assets, my bf does not, he only has liabilities.

I don't see that Mr. Lucky made any assumptions concerning ALL women or ALL men, so what is there to be offended about?

 

You should be proud that you have high earnings capabilities, I'm sure you worked hard to earn over 6 figures, but many women do not. I have more education than my BF, but his brawn, physical strength and willingness to work in heat and get dirty earn him more money. He didn't graduate from high school and makes more than I did in my highest paid job. I can't really compare our incomes because we do very different things, but I make about 65% of what he does in the same number of hours.

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the fact is CG that the avg female does earn less than the avg male. and thats cause the avg female is willing to accept a lesser salary and also cause their employment tends to be more transient...

 

 

why are you with him then? why aren't you with neurosurgeon?

 

Well, I'm self employed so I don't depend on a salary. The only way to become truly wealthy is to have your own business, you will never become wealthy working for someone else, you will only have security. Education has nothing to do with it. The book "Rich Dad Poor Dad" explains this very well.

 

Too many people rely on an education to provide them with a good income. After college they only make 60k a year or whatever and they will never have financial independence. Only true entrepreneurs who are willing to take risks can achieve that. Of course partners in law firms and specialized doctors such as surgeons make a ****load of money, but for people with regular 4 year degrees it's very hard to become extremely wealthy.

 

I am with my bf because I don't NEED or WANT a man who makes a lot more than me. I am not a gold digger. I don't need a man with high earnings because I support myself, I am independent. I don't look for earnings or earnings potential in a man because I can do it MYSELF.

 

I think it is lame to date someone because they are a neurosurgeon. I am very independent. It is beneath me to date someone just because they have money. Why would I need to do that when I can take care of MYSELF.

 

Also I feel like a poor guy will treat you better. A lot of rich men only want trophy wives and have a sense of entitlement because they are rich and are more prone to cheat.

 

For many many reasons I prefer a guy who is not a neurosurgeon.

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I don't see that Mr. Lucky made any assumptions concerning ALL women or ALL men, so what is there to be offended about?

 

You should be proud that you have high earnings capabilities, I'm sure you worked hard to earn over 6 figures, but many women do not. I have more education than my BF, but his brawn, physical strength and willingness to work in heat and get dirty earn him more money. He didn't graduate from high school and makes more than I did in my highest paid job. I can't really compare our incomes because we do very different things, but I make about 65% of what he does in the same number of hours.

 

I don't have a high education but I'm self taught. I love money, it is actually my hobby and my obsession and I like to read books about investing, creating assets, etc for fun. It's not about being educated, it's about a mind-set and being able to take risks and not following the grain.

 

I know Mr Lucky didn't say anything about "all women" , it's just that I get offended very easily and whenever someone mentions something about the "average woman" not earning as much as the "average guy", I just like to chime in and tell the world I make more than my bf. It makes me feel good inside.

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The factors in divorce go way beyond responsibility for children, alimony etc.

By the time the divorce is filed at least one partner has a lot of anger, after the divorce both partners get that way pretty fast. Divorce is nasty, it's ugly, and it brings out the worst in most people. The nicest person in the world can be reduced to fighting over a CD collection if they have enough hurt stored up.

 

Not everyone marries for money, not everyone divorces hoping to get everything. If it was as simple as money, I don't think divorce would be as big a deal... but when you get emotions involved people can be pretty irrational. Some women do hit the guy where it hurts, the pocket book, the business, the cars, boats, home... but not many do it just for the money... sometimes the man does the same by becoming very posessive of those things... sometimes the situations are reversed.

 

I heard the Tom Arnold got a tidy amount from Roseanne...

 

I don't think it's about the money near as often as it boils down to "you hurt me, now I'm going to hurt you" which is what keeps the cycle going for so damned long...

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