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when should you forgive and forget


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Hi

 

Some of you may have read my story before,

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t104811/?highlight=AtAGlance

 

but in a nutshell: We have been together over 20 years, both married, then divorced to be together. Bit of a rocky ride over the years with me being flirty with other men and him getting violent.

 

Last time I posted I thought we were through, but we seem to have pulled it together to some extent and are still together.

 

We still argue, and the arguments always end up talking about my past behaviour, maybe what I did in 1985 or 1990 or 1994 etc. I feel the only way we can move on and repair the relationship is to draw a line under these things and start from here. If I couldn't explain my actions at the time then I'm unlikely to be able to explein them now. He says that is a cop out and wants to talk about it - he says there is no past only present and future. He says you can't just forget stuff and put it in the past.

 

I suggested counselling but he won't go.

 

When we get on we are really happy, but more and more I am beginning to feel trapped by my actions of 20years ago and I want to run away to start a new life where all my mistakes aren't paraded in front of me week after week after week.

 

When is it reasonable to forget and more on? Or am I being unfair inexpecting this?

 

Thanks for reading

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For whatever reason something keeps drawing you to this relationship. Since he won't go to counselling with you, have you thought about going on your own to sort it all out?

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Hi

 

I did talk about going alone, but he was very negative about it. I can't remember exactly but he said but it was something along the lines of "if you go it's the end for us".

 

Part of me wants to be strong and independent, but part of me just wants to be happy and settled.

 

I'm so confused by this relationship

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whichwayisup

Do a list and weigh the good and the bad. You have to ask yourself "is this relationship worth the rollercoaster ride?"

 

Seems he doesn't like change and if you go to do some counselling, things WILL change and he's scared of that.

 

Either way, you need to make peace with the past and let go. You can't keep beating yourself up over things that happened so long ago.

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Thanks Whichwayisup - would you like to come over and tell him ? - ;)

 

I'd love to leave the past in the past and look to the future, but he's not letting me. Trouble is I don't know if that's enough to end the relationship and start again (besides which I'm nearly 50 - hardly a spring chicken !!!)

 

AAG

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I did talk about going alone, but he was very negative about it. I can't remember exactly but he said but it was something along the lines of "if you go it's the end for us".

Boy, that statement really stands out for me. As WWIU pointed out, there's alot of fear there. Were I you, I'd think long and hard as to why :confused:

but part of me just wants to be happy and settled.

Funny how those two things go together. I'd ask you how you plan on being settled without being happy...

 

Mr. Lucky

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whichwayisup
Thanks Whichwayisup - would you like to come over and tell him ? - ;)

 

I'd love to leave the past in the past and look to the future, but he's not letting me. Trouble is I don't know if that's enough to end the relationship and start again (besides which I'm nearly 50 - hardly a spring chicken !!!)

 

AAG

 

You're never too old to start over, especially if you are this unhappy in your marriage. It's a prison sentence to stay with a man who treats you like dog crap, and has no real love, care or thoughts of intimacy for his wife.

 

I understand the fears of being alone, but to stay with him out of fear of being alone is worse...You ARE alone in most ways, even though he is a body in your house...

 

If god forbid, he was in an accident, you'd be alone and starting over. My mom did it after my dad died and as hard as it was for her to go on, she's done it. You'd be surprised how much strength can take over when push comes to shove.

 

Surround yourself with good friends, neighbours and family.

 

And sorry, I can't remember if you have kids or not.

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Thanks for your replies

 

Mr Lucky when you wrote "Boy, that statement really stands out for me. As WWIU pointed out, there's alot of fear there. Were I you, I'd think long and hard as to why" do you see fear in him for not wanting to go, fear in me for just obeying him or both?

 

Re "happy and settled" - Ok the two pretty much go together. It's the contentment I guess I want.

 

 

Moose - I interpret your reply as I cannot expect him to firgive on my timescale (which is fair enough, I was the one that hurt him). But having said that do you think it is reasonable for me to leave if I think the relationship is now trapped in limbo even if it is of my making?

 

WWIU - yes I know. My mum put her life back together at 56 when my dad died. Sometimes It really gets to me we have no kids, so I will have no grandchildren and I'll end up a lonely old lady. I know that is not a reason to stay - but the fact we are in this situation upsets me more. He didn't think I was good enough to have his children so we never had any. (When I write that I think "why did I stay 20 years?" - because he always made me feel so guilty about not being good).

 

Sometimes I wonder if there is a control element - If you take our lives now - over the past few months we have been OK - but then everytime we get OK he brings up the past - then he takes the moral high ground and makes me feel guilty. He even believes that the violence was OK, because If I'd behave myself he wouldn't have hit me. So I brought it upon myself. and I'm so stupid I accept that that is the case.

 

Can you walk out on someone because they hit you 5 years ago ?????

 

AtA

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Just read this through again and the irony really struck me.

 

He says he has changed and there won't be any more violence (but then he doesn't see shouting, swearing, pushing around as a lower level of violence). BUT he won't accept I've changed because I can still be a bit flirty with blokes and to him that is exactly the same as sleeping with my husband.

 

He is prepared to leave me because I betrayed him in 1985, but I won't leave him because I think 5 years is too long to still be going on about something.

 

I've really messed up here.

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Moose - I interpret your reply as I cannot expect him to firgive on my timescale (which is fair enough, I was the one that hurt him). But having said that do you think it is reasonable for me to leave if I think the relationship is now trapped in limbo even if it is of my making?
Sure. I don't see why not. You're not married to him so there's nothing stopping you.
I can still be a bit flirty with blokes and to him that is exactly the same as sleeping with my husband.
I don't blame him really. If my wife were unfaithful, promised me she wouldn't do it again, and I stuck with her......THEN she continues to flirt with other men......I'd be full of doubt too.

 

He'll always have in the back of his mind that you both were unfaithful towards your spouses, so he's thinking, "if she could do it to him, she can do it to me"......

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Chrome Barracuda

y dont you just clear the air over the past??? Did you cheat on your first hsband to be with him? is that what's killing him inside? Do you know that a man that willingly sleeps with a married woman in the back of his head will always have that fear inside his heart. That's not so easy to erase.

 

And you being flirty with other men is not assuaging his guilt or his memories of thew woman you are. Now 20 years is a long time, but I think that you guys can work through this but you are gonna need a lot of work.

 

You can do it, a real relationship is hard work. there is no perfect formula for the perfect relationship or marriage.

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Salicious Crumb
Hi

 

Some of you may have read my story before,

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t104811/?highlight=AtAGlance

 

but in a nutshell: We have been together over 20 years, both married, then divorced to be together. Bit of a rocky ride over the years with me being flirty with other men and him getting violent.

 

Last time I posted I thought we were through, but we seem to have pulled it together to some extent and are still together.

 

We still argue, and the arguments always end up talking about my past behaviour, maybe what I did in 1985 or 1990 or 1994 etc. I feel the only way we can move on and repair the relationship is to draw a line under these things and start from here. If I couldn't explain my actions at the time then I'm unlikely to be able to explein them now. He says that is a cop out and wants to talk about it - he says there is no past only present and future. He says you can't just forget stuff and put it in the past.

 

I suggested counselling but he won't go.

 

When we get on we are really happy, but more and more I am beginning to feel trapped by my actions of 20years ago and I want to run away to start a new life where all my mistakes aren't paraded in front of me week after week after week.

 

When is it reasonable to forget and more on? Or am I being unfair inexpecting this?

 

Thanks for reading

 

Well..after reading your story in the other thread, I only have a comment to make about your question:

-------------------------

"Now our relationship has failed and I am trying to get some closure on a large part of my life. Was I a "disloyal slut" for 20 years (his words not mine) or was I just walking a little too close to the edge, and not being as sensitive to his feelings as I should have been ?

"

-------------------------

 

He called you a "disloyal slut"....well...she slut part I don't know...disloyal, I'd say yes. I mean for gods sake, you told him you had the hots for one of his friends....WTF are you thinking? How do you think he'd react to that?

 

So in answer to your question...the latter is true, you were not sensitive to his feelings and I can completely understand why he doesn't trust you.

You have given him many a reason to be skeptical. And you keep flirting with other men..hell the list goes on.

 

So if you REALLY want him and you think he is the one you want to spend the rest of your life with...STOP WITH THE FLIRTING and quit showing him that you just might jump in the sack with one of his buddies or crap like that.

 

If you really just can't keep your attentions away from other men...then spare him and break it off so he can find someone with far less baggage.

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12breakfree
Hi

 

Some of you may have read my story before,

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t104811/?highlight=AtAGlance

 

but in a nutshell: We have been together over 20 years, both married, then divorced to be together. Bit of a rocky ride over the years with me being flirty with other men and him getting violent.

 

Last time I posted I thought we were through, but we seem to have pulled it together to some extent and are still together.

 

We still argue, and the arguments always end up talking about my past behaviour, maybe what I did in 1985 or 1990 or 1994 etc. I feel the only way we can move on and repair the relationship is to draw a line under these things and start from here. If I couldn't explain my actions at the time then I'm unlikely to be able to explein them now. He says that is a cop out and wants to talk about it - he says there is no past only present and future. He says you can't just forget stuff and put it in the past.

 

I suggested counselling but he won't go.

 

When we get on we are really happy, but more and more I am beginning to feel trapped by my actions of 20years ago and I want to run away to start a new life where all my mistakes aren't paraded in front of me week after week after week.

 

When is it reasonable to forget and more on? Or am I being unfair inexpecting this?

 

Thanks for reading

 

Mistake all the cheaters or wrongdoers think in common is that past is past. No, you're wrong. It's maybe for you but to the person you hurt is not. To rebuilt the relationship that once damaged by YOU, you alone have to work harder than just simply go with the flow and see where it takes you. Um...I don't know about how much men can take the punch when the their spouses strayed. But I'm a woman who had been cheated on and I'm still dealing with it. It makes matter worse when the person hurt you tells you get over it; it's the PAST. It makes you feel so inferior, useless, worthless a piece of human being on earth.

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SC

 

In answer to your question - Yes I did tell him, but I didn't just blurt it out. In a previous conversation we had promised each other "no more lies", so we could trust each other. After the start we had to our relationship trust was an issue.

 

When he asked me if I fancied his friend I said that I didn't then but I had done about 5 years earlier. I KNOW the fancying bit is the bit that's wrong, but once I'm in the situation do I lie and break a promise, or do I keep my promise and tell him truthfully what had happened. Because we had made this promise to each other I decided to go with it and tell him the truth.

 

As I had already done wrong there was no way out without causing more pain.

 

I'm not flirting all the time - the big issues have been three times in 20 years. But now the there is so little trust that if I smile when I'm talking to a man he thinks I'm trying to pull them.

 

Believe me I know I made this bed, but I wish he didn't have to lie in it too. I still look at him and wonder how I could have hurt him so much over the years. I don't know how it ended up like this, why I couldn't stop it after the first time. That's why I wonder if I need counselling to try to deal with some flaws in my character.

 

 

CB - that's just what I want to do. But he doesn't want to. He feels that would be like letting me off without a punishment.

 

 

Thanks all for your replies - they make me think (and cry) but I always value the comments.

 

AtA

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Regardless of your sins, your BF sounds like a bully, both in the physical and emotional sense. And you seem, on some level, to buy into this as you have chosen long-term to play the "victim", both real (his anger and physical abuse) and self-inflicted (your flirting and the consequences). Until (and unless) you guys can break out of those roles, I don't see much hope for you...

 

Mr. Lucky

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GreenEyedLady

I think that there just comes a point to what can you live with? You both were married when you got together so he's just as capable of cheating as you...

 

You guys aren't even married, why are you putting up with this crap for two decades?

 

If he says he'll leave you if you go to counseling, perhaps you should tell him you'll leave him if he keeps bringing up the past, see how he takes that one...

 

About the violence, I think you probably shouldn't even stay in this situation for safety issues...

 

And how many times has he hurt you over 20 years? It's time for you to stop being the scapegoat and if he can't get over it and really give your R a chance, maybe you guys should split...

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Mistake all the cheaters or wrongdoers think in common is that past is past. No, you're wrong. It's maybe for you but to the person you hurt is not. To rebuilt the relationship that once damaged by YOU, you alone have to work harder than just simply go with the flow and see where it takes you. Um...I don't know about how much men can take the punch when the their spouses strayed. But I'm a woman who had been cheated on and I'm still dealing with it. It makes matter worse when the person hurt you tells you get over it; it's the PAST. It makes you feel so inferior, useless, worthless a piece of human being on earth.

 

12breakfree - Thank you. This is exactly what he says. So how do I do it ? To me rebuilding trust takes time - I have to prove over years that he can trust me. He says he needs more than that, but won't say what. His reply is always "if I have to tell you what to do then it's not worth it". But what is the extra I need to do? Life is smooth right now - we both work, we spend all our free time together, shopping, socialising, walking, watching TV - whatever. We make plans for our holidays, things to do for the house, what to do at the weekend - all the stuff that goes on from day to day in a relationship.

 

I'm not flirting, I'm not on the look out for someone else, my life is directed towards him and us. But he says this isn't enough. I really don't know what extra he wants. Should I be apologising every day for evey hurt I've caused? Picking the scabs off old wounds instead of letting them heal?

 

What more would you be looking for?

 

thanks

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Regardless of your sins, your BF sounds like a bully, both in the physical and emotional sense. And you seem, on some level, to buy into this as you have chosen long-term to play the "victim", both real (his anger and physical abuse) and self-inflicted (your flirting and the consequences). Until (and unless) you guys can break out of those roles, I don't see much hope for you...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

I understand where you are coming from. We have discussed this before - I sometimes feel as if I have a self destruct button, and if I think my life is getting too comfortable I press it and POW - straight back into drama. He thinks it is because I like the attention, like a child that deliberatley causes trouble to get their parents' attention. And then I slip into victim / child role and he goes into bully / parent role telling me off for my behaviour. One of his favourite comments is that he will treat me like an adult when I behave like one.

 

I think this is a real problem. I find it difficult to tell the difference between his anger and his hurt. (He finds it amazing that I can't differentiate) but his response to everything is to shout. I have never seen him cry, I've never heard him say "that's really upset me" or "you've really hurt me". He always shouts, and to me shouting means anger, not pain.

 

This is why I find posting here so helpful - I couldn't say this to him - he'd just start shouting. Even if other posters are shouting you can't hear them !!

 

Thanks

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Trialbyfire

And then I slip into victim / child role and he goes into bully / parent role telling me off for my behaviour. One of his favourite comments is that he will treat me like an adult when I behave like one.

 

This appears to be your relationship in a nutshell.

 

Why do you agitate his insecurities? Do you need his anger to affirm that he still cares about you or are you simply bored? When he goes into the bully/parent role, how do you react?

 

On the other hand, he's far too aggressive. He badly needs some anger management tools, if the only way he can communicate is by shouting. Also, the refusal to get therapy is very odd.

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Why do you agitate his insecurities? Do you need his anger to affirm that he still cares about you or are you simply bored?

 

 

TBF - my interpretation (and I have never had any professional opinion on this) is that my behaviour is a result of my insecurities. I was a victim of fairly consistent bullying as a child over several years, and since then I have gone out of my way to get people to like me. As I got older I learnt that flirting (when not attached) was a way of getting positive attention. As you know I still flirt and occassionally I have gone over the "line in the sand" and that is where the trouble begins. I seem to need more and more attention - its as if attention from him is not enough to keep me feeling good. That sounds really horrible I know, but it seems to describe the way I behave.

 

 

Quote: "When he goes into the bully/parent role, how do you react? "

 

Until recently I was very submissive - lots of tears, apologies, accepted all that he said and every name he called me whether it was true or not. However a couple of years ago we had a friend - bit older than us, who had been through the mill a few times and was always very sensible. He hated the way my partner treated me and told me I should stand up for myself sometimes. For example "Mr Sensible" was amazed that I never go out without my partner except to get a bit of food shopping or I have only been "out with the girls" about 5 times in 20 years. (that's nothing to do with jealousy - my partner thinks that people who go out in single sex groups when they are married are weird). Eventually Mr Sensible couldn't stand the way my partner behaved and the friendship just drifted apart. But since then I've tried to fight back a bit. Yes I apologise when I've done wrong, but I won't accept being accused of things I haven't done. Trouble is that makes each argument last days and days, whereas if I just break down into tears they could be finished in a day or two.

 

As Mr Lucky said this is not going to to fix until we drop these roles, and discuss things on even terms. That is why I keep suggesting counselling, but he won't entertain the idea.

 

Thanks for replying

AtA

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