This spans over a decade....

[myocardium]

Hello LS Gurus!

 

I have flicked through some great advice threads over here, so I hoped I could ask for the same. I must apologise in advance for the below either being too rambly or just plain pathetic. I am normally good at making decisions about these kinds of situations but sometimes I get stuck in a cycle of thought and just need someone wise to tell me to snap out of it. I tend to find it hard to discuss things with my very close friends for fear of it seeming embarrassing or undermining me. I know I shouldn't fear judgement from friends; those who would judge me don't deserve to be called friends. But still, it seems easier to seek advice anonymously.

 

Yes, it is about a girl.

 

 

Beginning

Twelve years ago, I got to know said girl from an online forum that was popular with teens (we were both teens back then). Exchanged phone numbers, lots of chat, phonecalls, bonding etc ensued. She lived/s 400 miles away and back then I was less gung-ho and didn't actually ever meet her. In hindsight, yes, stupid move.

 

It was quite surreal for me. Someone I really bonded with and was very attracted to, but didn't get the guts to pursue and just used the distance as an excuse. I still tried to date where I was, without success. Three years after initial contact, she started seeing someone on a long term basis and that was that.

 

 

Early Middle

Timeline is now about eight years ago, I started to see someone on a long-term basis and soon married them. Alas that only lasted four years. Marry in haste, repent at leisure, as they say. During that time, said girl would contact me every six months or so...just brief pleasantries exchanged. It felt like an old friend just catching up. (Said girl was not the reason for the divorce...the marriage had it's own problems).

 

 

Late Middle

The divorce coincided with my first year at uni as a mature student, so that in itself wrecked a bit of havoc. (I supported the ex-wife through uni, so the plan was that she would then support me). Anyway, I haven't dated much at uni as most of the girls I come across are so much younger than me and the ones my age are so much more qualified and are sapiosexuals. A mug like me struggling through undergrad doesn't have much to offer.

That's not to say I havent tried post-divorce...I either misinterpret friendly attention as more, or am so terrible at timing that I fail to recognise the initial attraction and don't act on it.

 

Contact with said girl became annualish in this period. Friendly messages on birthdays and special occasions sort of thing. She being still with that long-term guy of hers.

 

 

Now

Two months ago, she started more regular contact, seemingly instigated by her seeing some photos of me with a pretty girlpal on a day out (I rarely post things online, it was the girlpal). Said girl asked if the girlpal and I were an item, she said she called things off with her long-term guy last year when he wanted to get married, and just general catchup. She still lives in that town 400 miles away, has a professional high-flying career etc.

 

Last week she said she was coming to visit a town 70 miles from me and that it would be good to meet up. The meet only lasted a few of hours and was very surreal given that it was the first time after all this time we actually physically met. We got on really well and she said how it didn't feel like the first meet at all. I stayed charming, teased her, flirted. She looked gorgeous. It ended with a peck on the cheek. It wasn't really a date after all.

 

Since then, some days she messages me, some days I send to her. I try not to drag out any text exchanges and keep it short and not boring. She asked me to go up and see her in the next couple of months when I have time off. She also said she is looking to transfer to that town 70 miles away and we could then meet more often.

 

 

 

My question to you is...why am I overthinking this and have been pushed to such a state that I need to post here to set me straight? The situation with said girl is long and complicated...it's not like dating someone for the first time. I really doubt anything will come of it. Any attraction she had for me that many years ago has long fizzled out. I am quite sure she sees me as just a friend, but why is a small part of me analysing things too deeply and thinking there could be more? By now, I should know better than this, surely?

 

Do I just ask directly? Take things as they come and chill? Be proactive? Leave it be and save myself the rejection?

[TMichaels]

My question to you is...why am I overthinking this and have been pushed to such a state that I need to post here to set me straight?

 

If you came here to "set yourself straight" it sounds like you already have made up your mind. If so, not sure why you're even asking. (?)

 

The situation with said girl is long and complicated...it's not like dating someone for the first time.

 

So spending a lot of time with someone -- even if it was long distance -- is a bad thing when it comes to dating? You said it yourself about your marriage: "Marry in haste; repent at leisure." I'd say if you both have stayed in touch and interested in what's going on in each other's lives all these years later, that's a good thing.

 

I really doubt anything will come of it.

See above. I just don't get your reasoning.

 

Any attraction she had for me that many years ago has long fizzled out.

How do you know that? I would say the fact that she's telling you she's moving to a town only 70 miles away which would enable you two to see each other more often is an encouraging sign.

 

I am quite sure she sees me as just a friend...

Again, how have you come to this conclusion?

 

...but why is a small part of me analysing things too deeply and thinking there could be more?

 

Because there very well could be.

 

By now, I should know better than this, surely?

 

Know better than what? Why does it sound like you're so down on yourself and/or think you're worthless or destined to lead a partner-less life?

 

Do I just ask directly? Take things as they come and chill? Be proactive? Leave it be and save myself the rejection?

 

Man, <shaking head> you sure are a "glass half-empty kinda guy, aren't you?!" How 'bout you quit trying to put everything in little boxes and line them up neatly on the shelf?

 

I don't care if you've known this woman for a dozen years or not, YOU'VE ACTUALLY SPENT TIME WITH HER IN REAL LIFE exactly ONCE. IOW, you've had one date (regardless if for some reason you think your meeting wasn't a date because you didn't get any action).

 

Therefore, if you (and she) want to see if there's any real relationship potential, you need to keep spending time in each other's company. The fact she's already mentioned being interested in doing so is good news -- but it could also be that she just wants to have at least one person she knows whose not that far away from what will be her new home.

 

You're just going to have to go with the flow and see what develops. Asking her right now what she wants out of the relationship isn't a good idea. Most likely she's as unsure and contemplative about all of this as you are.

 

 

Cool your jets. It's not like either of you have a deadline or expiration date -- or for that matter, an infallible crystal ball. Quit worrying, go with the flow, and see where things lead. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, 'ya know?

 

Best,

TMichaels

[myocardium]

TMichaels, thank you for being super frank. Honestly is appreciated.

 

If you came here to "set yourself straight" it sounds like you already have made up your mind. If so, not sure why you're even asking. (?)

 

Sorry if it came across wrong. It's not so much that I've made up my mind but that my logic tells me it's futile but my emotions say there may be something there.

 

So spending a lot of time with someone -- even if it was long distance -- is a bad thing when it comes to dating? You said it yourself about your marriage: "Marry in haste; repent at leisure." I'd say if you both have stayed in touch and interested in what's going on in each other's lives all these years later, that's a good thing.

 

Sorry, what I was trying to say was that all this time it wasn't spending time in person, so somehow less significant? Regardless of the fact that yes, it was a sort of bonding etc.

 

How do you know that? I would say the fact that she's telling you she's moving to a town only 70 miles away which would enable you two to see each other more often is an encouraging sign.

 

 

At the risk of irating you...won't any sense of attraction just fade away after all this time when there was no effort made from either side?

 

 

Again, how have you come to this conclusion?

 

Again, at the rist of irating you and forgive me for using a cliche...aren't I 'friendzoned' by now? The safe, chummy guy who can fill some emotional need, maybe pushed on by nostalgia, now that she's single?

 

 

Because there very well could be.

 

The fluffy side of me, yes, would like to think that too.

 

Know better than what? Why does it sound like you're so down on yourself and/or think you're worthless or destined to lead a partner-less life?

 

On reflection, yes, my message does give that impression, doesnt it! Apologies. I guess I have reached a stage where I like to be risk-averse and not put myself in a position where I could get hurt?

 

 

 

Man, <shaking head> you sure are a "glass half-empty kinda guy, aren't you?!" How 'bout you quit trying to put everything in little boxes and line them up neatly on the shelf?

 

I feel you have read me like a book.

 

 

I don't care if you've known this woman for a dozen years or not, YOU'VE ACTUALLY SPENT TIME WITH HER IN REAL LIFE exactly ONCE. IOW, you've had one date (regardless if for some reason you think your meeting wasn't a date because you didn't get any action).

 

Well, neither of us said it was a date...but yes, I see your point: a date is where you spend time in real life. So yes, it was a date.

 

 

Therefore, if you (and she) want to see if there's any real relationship potential, you need to keep spending time in each other's company. The fact she's already mentioned being interested in doing so is good news -- but it could also be that she just wants to have at least one person she knows whose not that far away from what will be her new home.

 

You're just going to have to go with the flow and see what develops. Asking her right now what she wants out of the relationship isn't a good idea. Most likely she's as unsure and contemplative about all of this as you are.

 

I agree, yes. Asking straight up right now is far too soon.

 

Cool your jets. It's not like either of you have a deadline or expiration date -- or for that matter, an infallible crystal ball. Quit worrying, go with the flow, and see where things lead. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, 'ya know?

 

Best,

TMichaels

 

Nothing ventures, nothing gained. Wise words. So just chill the hell out and see what happens.

[TMichaels]

Sorry if it came across wrong. It's not so much that I've made up my mind but that my logic tells me it's futile but my emotions say there may be something there...

 

Sorry, what I was trying to say was that all this time it wasn't spending time in person, so somehow less significant? Regardless of the fact that yes, it was a sort of bonding etc.

 

At the risk of irating you...won't any sense of attraction just fade away after all this time when there was no effort made from either side?

 

Again, at the rist of irating you and forgive me for using a cliche...aren't I 'friendzoned' by now? The safe, chummy guy who can fill some emotional need, maybe pushed on by nostalgia, now that she's single?

 

Gee whiz. Do you notice a pattern here? There's no need for you to apologize for what you think. Your thoughts and opinions are your own and they are no less valid or valued than the next guy's.

 

What this says to me is that for some reason in the royal scheme of the Universe, you think of yourself as being one step above an amoeba. Quit being so damned timid, polite and self-critical. Why do you value yourself so lowly?

 

On reflection, yes, my message does give that impression, doesnt it! Apologies. I guess I have reached a stage where I like to be risk-averse and not put myself in a position where I could get hurt?

 

Oh, man. Here were go again! Apologizing for your very existence. You really need to work on that and get to the bottom of why you think you're so inconsequential.

 

And the risk-averse part? Someone on this forum has a signature line that seems particularly apropos: "Nothing will change until you do."

 

Well, neither of us said it was a date...but yes, I see your point: a date is where you spend time in real life. So yes, it was a date.

 

Does it really matter what it was called? What's important is who you were with, whether you enjoyed each other's company, and if there was any interest on both sides in doing it again. From what you wrote, it sounded to me like a home run was hit on all three scores.

 

I agree, yes. Asking straight up right now is far too soon... Nothing ventures, nothing gained. Wise words. So just chill the hell out and see what happens.

 

Yes, that's what I would do if I were you. That, and try and get to the bottom of why you seems to think you're so unworthy.

 

This "I'm not going to stick my neck out because I might hurt again" rut you seem to be stuck in also isn't helping your case. That attitude almost guarantees you'll be friend-zoned because in the process of you avoiding life and emotion you're giving off vibes that you don't want or aren't interested in anything more.

 

Do you ever let yourself go? Go out to your local and get really pissed and let everyone within earshot have a piece of your mind? I get the impression that being in control at all times is very important to you. If so, do you know why?

 

Best,

TMichaels

[myocardium]

Gee whiz. Do you notice a pattern here? There's no need for you to apologize for what you think. Your thoughts and opinions are your own and they are no less valid or valued than the next guy's.

 

What this says to me is that for some reason in the royal scheme of the Universe, you think of yourself as being one step above an amoeba. Quit being so damned timid, polite and self-critical. Why do you value yourself so lowly?

 

Oh, man. Here were go again! Apologizing for your very existence. You really need to work on that and get to the bottom of why you think you're so inconsequential.

 

Okay, I can see how this looks. I just didnt want to appear disrespectful or ungrateful towards someone (you) helping me out in this situation. I didn't mean to come across as a wet blanket. Although, yes, I am quite self-critical. Not really timid, and polite if the situation demands it. I will stand up for myself and ruffle feathers if need be, but otherwise I tend to stay drama-free.

 

 

And the risk-averse part? Someone on this forum has a signature line that seems particularly apropos: "Nothing will change until you do."

 

You have forced me to self-reflect. I will have to change in certain areas.

 

 

Does it really matter what it was called? What's important is who you were with, whether you enjoyed each other's company, and if there was any interest on both sides in doing it again. From what you wrote, it sounded to me like a home run was hit on all three scores.

 

You're right, it doesn't. The labelling is just academic.

 

 

Yes, that's what I would do if I were you. That, and try and get to the bottom of why you seems to think you're so unworthy.

 

How do I begin to explore that? I do feel unworthy in my dating life sometimes, moulded by past experiences. I realise this is a catch-22: if I don't sort out my own mentality first, what good will I be in a relationship.

 

 

This "I'm not going to stick my neck out because I might hurt again" rut you seem to be stuck in also isn't helping your case. That attitude almost guarantees you'll be friend-zoned because in the process of you avoiding life and emotion you're giving off vibes that you don't want or aren't interested in anything more.

 

As you said, nothing ventured nothing gained. I need to stop catastrophising and let things happen.

 

 

Do you ever let yourself go? Go out to your local and get really pissed and let everyone within earshot have a piece of your mind? I get the impression that being in control at all times is very important to you. If so, do you know why?

 

I do go out with friends: sometimes dinners and pubs, sometimes clubbing to let my extroverted side out. But yes, you're right, I do feel the need to be in control of myself. Not in a control-freak kind of way exerting dominion over others. I think I have a need for certainty and security, I achieve that by staying in control of myself and on top of things I can influence.

 

How do I go about changing that?

[carhill]

I think I have a need for certainty and security, I achieve that by staying in control of myself and on top of things I can influence.

 

How do I go about changing that?

 

Presuming the needs are entrenched in your psyche, you'll probably have to engage a professional to work through changing how you process interactions and stimulus. I did it as part of MC when we got divorced. A side effect was it helped with situations like you outlined in the OP, with women. Basically, and perhaps this is over-simplifying, think less and feel more and let go of control and expectations. Difficult? Yes! I worked at it, along with the MC part, for over a year.

[myocardium]

Presuming the needs are entrenched in your psyche, you'll probably have to engage a professional to work through changing how you process interactions and stimulus. I did it as part of MC when we got divorced. A side effect was it helped with situations like you outlined in the OP, with women. Basically, and perhaps this is over-simplifying, think less and feel more and let go of control and expectations. Difficult? Yes! I worked at it, along with the MC part, for over a year.

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Do you mean like CBT? I presume you feel happier and more relaxed with yourself as a result?