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Girlfriend was planning to go to university, but now probably not


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Hi, I've posted about this before, a while back, but circumstances change, and I missed some important facts.

 

I met my girlfriend a year ago. She is from Slovakia, in Eastern Europe. I am English, and I live in England. At the time of us meeting, she had a plan to go to university to study theatre, however when the time came, she didn't get past past the auditions, and did not get a place in any university to study that subject.

 

So in the last minute, she decided to study something else, travel and tourism, as she wants to see different places. She is not bothered about getting a degree, she wanted to do it for the experience of travel.

 

Anyway, since that time, her and I have fallen very much in love, we have the kind of relationship and love that some people will never find in their lifetime. She absolutely does not want to lose her relationship with me. At first I thought she should just go to university, which will be in Slovakia, for 5 years. I've told her a relationship like this isn't likely to work because it's five years apart with getting to see each other only a few times per year. However circumstances change, we fell in love. She doesn't want to go now. We've lived together in my home in England since nearly the beginning of the year.

 

A few extra details I'd like to throw in - I have my own home with no mortgage in England which means she would have a good life with me (I'm not some loser with nothing to offer her) She wanted to leave Slovakia some day anyway, as the economic and work situation in that country is not good. That's how we met, she was working here in England for 6 months, earning 4 times the wage she could get in Slovakia. The minimum wage in England is rising to almost £7 this October, the minimum wage in Slovakia is £2. Slovakia isn't such a good place to live and work, you're greatly better off in a place like England and many of them come over here to work any job they can get.

 

The other thing is even if she was to go to university and get the degree in travel and tourism, it doesn't really help get to get a good job here in England. She lacks a math qualification because they didn't even offer a math exam in her Slovakian school and while her english is very good, she does not have an English qualification. Here in the UK the entry requirements for many middle level and higher jobs is to have a C grade or higher in Maths and English.

 

So we had a good idea, instead of going to university in Slovakia, she will study in England, it's only 30 weeks, to get the English and Math qualification, as opposed to 5 years study in Slovakia to get a qualification that will mean very little in England. That will give her some better job options in England and also open up further study in England if she chooses to go that route. She can also work during those 30 weeks studying here because the course is only 1 day a week.

 

She already changed her mind about going to university, this is what she wants to do now, it's a good alternative and it means we can be together. It seems better than the idea of ending a great relationship with the person you love, studying tourism in Slovakia, and ending up in a far worse financial situation 5 years later than she would have been if she came to England where she can work and study at the same time, earning a much higher wage.

 

Her parents wanted her to go to university too, but even her dad can see that this is a good thing for her, he has giving us his blessing. She has spoken with several friends about this, some from Slovaka and some who are from europe and working here in England, and they all support her in her plan to come to England. One asked "Do you love him?" To which she replied "Yes". She said "Then isn't it obvious what you should do?" It makes no sense to end this relationship and she saw it immediately.

 

Hopefully I haven't missed too much information, it can be hard to form an opinion on the matter when you don't know all the details. But as I said, even her dad has given us his blessing, and he's a sensible guy.

 

She is 20 years old, but she is a very mature 20, far more so than most. She has already lived and worked away from home for half a year before we met. I am 30 (only just turned 30) she has no problem with my age she prefers that I am older because guys her age are mostly immature and not great for a serious relationship. I look about the same age as her (people tend to guess my age as about 20) and we're on the same level mostly so I see no issue with the age difference and she takes no issue with it, even prefers it. I spent ten years in a relationship with the wrong person, I'm not about to end a great relationship when there is no need.

 

From all what I've told about our situation, when two people love each other very much, and see that person as the one you will spend the rest of your life with, it would be stupid for us to end this relationship. Does anyone agree that we are doing the right thing?

Edited by cm00
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I remember your story. Sounds like it has all worked out for you. Is her mom now also giving you her blessing?

 

About doing the right thing; if this is what you both want and she was not coerced into this, why not? You have a responsibility towards her now though, since she is giving up her home etc. I do think for her it is a good opportunity to study in the UK and I hope she is able to build a life there (also in case you and her do not work out in the end).

 

Be prepared that she may be homesick at first. Maybe try to look for contact groups with people from her country who are also living in the UK (look online, contact the embassy/consulate) to make her feel a little bit more at home. Be patient and understanding.

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I remember your story. Sounds like it has all worked out for you. Is her mom now also giving you her blessing?

 

About doing the right thing; if this is what you both want and she was not coerced into this, why not? You have a responsibility towards her now though, since she is giving up her home etc. I do think for her it is a good opportunity to study in the UK and I hope she is able to build a life there (also in case you and her do not work out in the end).

 

Be prepared that she may be homesick at first. Maybe try to look for contact groups with people from her country who are also living in the UK (look online, contact the embassy/consulate) to make her feel a little bit more at home. Be patient and understanding.

 

Hi, Thanks. I've edited in some more information that you may not have seen when you first loaded the page. She has lived away from home twice now, for a total of around a year. The first time was before we met, and the second time she was living with me.

 

To come here is her choice. I've asked her what she wants to do, and this is what she wants. I've told her that if she wants to go university, she should go, it's entirely up to her to choose what to do and I don't want it to be ever be up for question if I had anything to do with swaying her choice or worse, coercing her. She knows this well because we've spoke about it, her mum may try to claim I've manipulated her (her mum made this claim before about even her friends, she tells me) but she knows that isn't true. I've told her to do what she wants to do, don't even consider about what would make me happy or what I want, do what it is you want to do, not to worry about how I feel when deciding your choice.

 

No, her mum did not give her blessing, her mum doesn't know yet. But there's something not quite right going on here though. I think her mum would just rather she stayed home for longer, her mum has been quite manipulative and tries to make her feel guilty over being away from home, which upsets her. Her mum wants her to go to a university that is close to their home, and for her to come and stay at home every weekend where she can "cook for her". So she hasn't told her mum yet, we decided it best to wait until she goes back to Slovakia and tell her face to face rather than over skype while she is living here in my home. She is on holiday with her family now, and she will tell them after the holiday. She has already booked her flight ticket back. Her dad already knows, he's the one who suggested she go ahead and book the flight back. She talked about it quietly with him a few weeks ago, but he is saying nothing to the mother about it.

 

We suspect her mum will be against it, but not because she thinks university is important, but because she doesn't want her daughter to leave home. She still calls her daughter "a child". My girlfriend doesn't like that, she grew a lot the two times she lived and worked away from home, she told me this. So she has one parent give us his blessing, and the other will probably be against it, but for selfish reasons I think. She expects her "child" daughter to take her brother to another country next year and teach him to live and work there, that's a lot of responsibility to put on someone who you claim is just a child. Anyway, we decided she can still help her brother learn to work abroad, her brother can come to work in England next year, that will be a good opportunity and good experience for him.

 

I stayed in her parents home with her for a few weeks before I took her to England for the second time. The evening before we left to England, we all sat together, and her mother said to me that later this year she has to go to university, and next summer, she has to take her brother abroad. She then said here in Slovakia it's not like in England or America, we don't send away our children when they are older, our families always stick together. I remember thinking to myself, this doesn't seem right, what she said, so I didn't say much.

 

Her mum will know soon that she is coming back to England to live. It was me who suggested not to tell her mum over Skype, to wait until she is back with her family and to tell them properly. I don't want her mum to feel that I was somehow manipulating her daughter, she may feel that way if she was to tell her over Skype while living with me. I think I did the right thing, if she really loves me, after this holiday with her family, she will tell her mum, and then she will come back to me. She knows her mum will be against it but she is coming back to England anyway. It's not like she's a teenager, not some nieve 16 year old. She is an adult now, 20, and has lived and worked independantly away from home for around half a year and then lived and worked for another half a year or so with me.

 

She had one long relationship before me, with a guy who is now 26 years old, and in a similar situation to what she could have ended up in. He lives in Slovakia, in a city near her. He went to university, but never really left home, still lives with his parents now, she describes him as a nice guy, but he never really appreciated her, and a bit of a loser maybe. He never grew up much. She told me she doesn't want to end up like him in 5 years, finished university, still living with parents, no real prospects because there are few job prospects in Slovakia. That degree means very little when you can just go abroad to a country like England where even a minimum wage job is better than anything she could earn in Slovakia. Since we already have it arranged for her to get some qualifications here in England, she can earn even more too. The course starts this september and she has already been accepted. As you can see, with everything about this situation put into perspective, going to university in Slovakia doesn't seem like something worth losing the person you love over, it seems crazy to do that.

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I knew a girl from Slovakia. She was like 22. She used to travel with a man in his 50s. Why? Was she in love with him? No. But he could take her to nice restaurants, they would travel together around Europe. They slept together. And she was a devoted 'girlfriend'. She didn't talk much. She didn't express opinions in public. She was more like a puppet in his hands. But she was leading a life she couldn't afford in her own country or just being a secretary in his office. She could live beyond her means, travel for free, eat well and get gifts. More or less like a prostitute, but with just one loyal client.

 

Please make sure this relationship is not that kind of relationship. Don't get offended if I'm saying this. But you were her chance for coming back to the UK. You are her chance to live a better life, providing a house and money just in case she doesn't earn enough. You are her bridge to a better life. And it can be a subtle thing to detect. Once she doesn't need you anymore, you lose her.

 

How is she in love with you? Does she go out of her way for you? Does she buy you gifts? How long did it take her to sleep with you after the first time you met her? Right on the first night? Try to be objective about things happened between you two. You are 30. She's 20. No matter how mature. If she's easy, she's not going to change her personality overnight. I know she said only you can have her. Gratitude can set in, but won't stay there forever.

 

Just my two cents to help you being wise.

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I knew a girl from Slovakia. She was like 22. She used to travel with a man in his 50s. Why? Was she in love with him? No. But he could take her to nice restaurants, they would travel together around Europe. They slept together. And she was a devoted 'girlfriend'. She didn't talk much. She didn't express opinions in public. She was more like a puppet in his hands. But she was leading a life she couldn't afford in her own country or just being a secretary in his office. She could live beyond her means, travel for free, eat well and get gifts. More or less like a prostitute, but with just one loyal client.

 

Please make sure this relationship is not that kind of relationship. Don't get offended if I'm saying this. But you were her chance for coming back to the UK. You are her chance to live a better life, providing a house and money just in case she doesn't earn enough. You are her bridge to a better life. And it can be a subtle thing to detect. Once she doesn't need you anymore, you lose her.

 

How is she in love with you? Does she go out of her way for you? Does she buy you gifts? How long did it take her to sleep with you after the first time you met her? Right on the first night? Try to be objective about things happened between you two. You are 30. She's 20. No matter how mature. If she's easy, she's not going to change her personality overnight. I know she said only you can have her. Gratitude can set in, but won't stay there forever.

 

Just my two cents to help you being wise.

 

I can see where you are coming from, and I too know of girls like this, one or two she even met at the place she works and I know of them through her. One was a 29 year old russian, who was seeing her boss, who is 48 years old, and he is divorced with children. He actually did treat her like a prostitute, from what I hear. I've thought about this, but no, there is no chance that's what this is. Perhaps if I was a lot older I would be worried, but her and I are not so different in age.

 

I realise I am some of those things, a chance at a better life, but then isn't that what any woman would want when choosing a man? Most of them, the smart ones at least, stay away from the men who will not provide a good future for them.

 

She is very much in love with me. I'll give a few examples. She doesn't expect me to pay for things, in fact she often pays for things. I pay all the house bills, but she pays more than I do for things like eating out and food shopping. She will write small notes "I love you" and so on, and leave it for me to find, or she will write it in the next page on my notepad so that I find it when I turn the page.

 

She buys me gifts, and for my birthday she wanted to plan something special. But we had to call that off because the club wouldn't allow it, she also framed a picture of us and she bought a silver photo album and had lots of photos of us printed and she framed them in it. She will always cook, but she likes it more when we cook together, I cook for her too sometimes.

 

We take photos of all our important moments, anytime we visit new places, and we keep all of it so we never lose those memories.

 

She slept with me on the night that we met. I see no issue with that. She had not slept with a guy for 5 months. She had broken up with her ex boyfriend from slovakia around a month earlier, but this was a long time coming, she knew something was wrong with that relationship for several months, even just as she was coming to England, she was apart from him for 5 months and then ended the relationship. She told me of a few guys who were trying to get with her but she didn't get with any of them. We met in town one night, we had a lot of sex, 5 times in fact, it went on for most of the night, she said it was the best sex of her life. I can believe her, that was great sex. She only ever had one other sexual partner, her ex. We then went on to date immediately after, I took on a date the very next night.

 

I can believe she is truthful with me, she is one the most kind natured, honest, caring persons I have known. I don't think she is easy, she turned down other guys before me, she just said she felt so good with me.

 

I don't want it to seem like I am bragging but I look after myself, keep fit and eat healthy. What I mean is I wouldn't find it strange that she is interested in me, I don't have to look in the mirror and question what she sees in me. Sorry if this sounds a bit boasty but I don't know how else to say it. You know what I mean, if I looked completely wrong for her, then yes it would be questionable as to why a younger beautiful slovakian girl would be interested in a guy who doesn't look right for her who has nothing to offer her except money, that would really change how I'd feel.

 

I don't feel that there is anything questionable about it, she seems to genuinely love me. When she spoke to her dad about her not going to university and coming to England instead, he asked her if she sees me as the man she will spend the rest of her life with, and she said yes. He told her to book the plane ticket back to England, that's the conversation when he said you have my blessing.

Edited by cm00
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I realise I am some of those things, a chance at a better life, but then isn't that what any woman would want when choosing a man?
No, it isn't. That might be valid for a number of women, not all of them. I dare say not for most women.
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Love is not enough. You are an adult with a life. Even though she may be 20, she is still a child filled with the wonder of the future possibilities life holds. She wants to dream & spread her wings. You want her to settle down & be practical. Those cross purposes are inherently in conflict.

 

Your LDR is in part a fairy tale for her. It doubt it's going to survive her transition into adulthood. Sorry.

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Love is not enough. You are an adult with a life. Even though she may be 20, she is still a child filled with the wonder of the future possibilities life holds. She wants to dream & spread her wings. You want her to settle down & be practical. Those cross purposes are inherently in conflict.

 

Your LDR is in part a fairy tale for her. It doubt it's going to survive her transition into adulthood. Sorry.

 

Let's clarrify a few fact here, this is not a long distance relationship, and I don't want to settle down yet, I don't want to get married yet, or have kids yet. She knows this, we've talked about, not for at least 5 years. We want to have chance to enjoy our lives together, no responsibility of kids, to have new experiences together and we plan to travel to as many different new places as we can. We've already had our first holiday, we went to Spain together. I missed out on really living my life in my late teens and most of my twenties because I was in a bad relationship (my first relationship) with a lazy girl who did nothing except drain life and money from me. I've had several small relationships since then and I can safely say that I am a lot wiser as to what is a good relationship now. I'm with a girl who wants to live and enjoy her life, but as a couple, with marriage and kids delayed until much later, and I feel the same way, so we both want the same thing. My girlfriend has had two relationships before me, one short one, and one long one, neither were very good and both guys were no good for her.

 

Our relationship is not long distance. It started out a normal relationship, we met in my town. Then it turned long distance for about half a year after she went to her come country. Then I went and stayed with her for a few weeks before bringing her back to England, she has lived with me here for the last half a year or so. This isn't a long distance relationship any more although it has the potential to become one again if she didn't come back, but it won't, because I would end the relationship, we did 6 months LDR quite easily, but five years would be too much.

 

She just a few days ago went back home to see her parents, her dad already knows she intends to come back here, but her mum doesn't know yet. She has told her dad that she loves me, and she sees me as the man she could spend the rest of her life with. He told her to book the flight back here, and so she has. Then he said you have my blessing. He said just don't tell your mother until after the holiday (she went back to see her parents and go on holiday with them, then she is coming back to England) unless she changes her mind, but from all she has said to me, I don't expect her to change her mind.

Edited by cm00
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No, it isn't. That might be valid for a number of women, not all of them. I dare say not for most women.

 

A woman will seek a good provider, it has been that way for thousands of years, and it is still that way now. I'm sure that many women at least consider it, without being aware they are even doing it. This is especially if they are looking for that one to spend their life with and have a family. (I am not saying all women think this way).

 

By chance, I was watching a documentary about the mail order bride industry. I always thought of it as a big scam, but apparently it's a real thing. Some of the women on there, who were from countries such as Ukraine and Russia, said they were looking for a western man because typically a good western man (note I said a good one, there are many bad ones) are better educated, better paid and will provide a better life for her to live and work and raise a family. I don't know how many women think this way, I doubt many go to such extremes. I see no point in arguing about this anyway, my opinion is that many women probably at least consider it, even if they are not aware they are doing it.

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I'll also note that her friends, work colleagues, who see the relationship, who she confides in, they support her in this, to come back to England instead where she can work, study, and be with me. Even her father, who knows her better than anyone should, supports her in this. It's not university, it's just a different route. And university is still an option for the future, even an English university. But saying that, university is not the end all, be all in life. Her study here is already arranged, it starts in three weeks, at a college not far from here, one day a week.

 

She told me about her best friend from Slovakia, she started university, but dropped out a few months in because she didn't like it. And another of her friends who was supposed to go to university, did not, and instead moved to England where she now lives with her boyfriend and is happy. The impression I got from my girlfriend saying this was that she is realizing university isn't so important especially for someone in her position, she has a better option now. Wages are several times higher in England, while things like food, petrol, are the same price in Slovakia as in England. The only financial downside about England is rent and house prices are very high and growing on average 10% a year, currently 4 times higher than Slovakian property but that's a non factor for us, as I already own a house in full. Even if I didn't, wages are 4 times better here to make up high property prices. Even if she could finish university, and get a degree, she would come out of university to a poorer life than the one she has now, in England. Facing potentially huge regret over losing a great relationship with the man she loved.

 

Since she is studying Maths and English here starting in September, it will also open the door for her to go to university in England, if she chooses to. I can't see how anyone could say she should lose her relationship with me and go to university in Slovakia still, it's stupid on every level. This is a much better opportunity for her.

Edited by cm00
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I'll also note that her friends, work colleagues, who see the relationship, who she confides in, they support her in this, to come back to England instead where she can work, study, and be with me. Even her father, who knows her better than anyone should, supports her in this...

 

I can't see how anyone could say she should lose her relationship with me and go to university in Slovakia still, it's stupid on every level. This is a much better opportunity for her.

 

Ok, so if it's such a great idea, why are you trying so hard to convince complete strangers of its merit? What or who are you afraid of?

 

It's beginning to look/sound like it's *you* who isn't 100% comfortable with the fact you are essentially determining this woman's destiny. Are you sure that deep-down this isn't bothering you?

 

Otherwise, if this is what your g/f also wants and she's solidly on board, WHO CARES what other people think or want? You're both adults and have the right to do as you please.

 

Quit noodling the plan to death and just get on with it. If it all goes pear-shaped later, at least you can say you gave it a try.

 

 

Best,

TMichaels

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I just heard from her today, she's on her holiday at the moment with her parents. She has said she can't come back. The things she has told me just seem so wrong, we had a very long conversation and I feel worried about her situation. This will be a really long post but it has to be in order for the situation to be understood. I feel really sorry for her, and I worry.

 

She spoke to her mother, her mother is against it, and she feels powerless to anything except what her mother wants. During her time with me, she broke down into tears, really crying, telling me of the awful things her mother had done to her and her father, this goes way back, as far as she can remember, as a child. These things she has never told anyone, only those in close family know, the two brothers, father, and mother. Obviously being away from that house and situation she felt comfortable enough to let out what was really quite shocking for me to see and hear.

 

I will tell you what she told me about this

She told me her mother can get "very" angry, and will scream and shout until she gets her way. Her mother always gets her way, and she sometimes even screams at her when she has clearly done nothing wrong. She told me her dad knows all about it, and they have to sometimes keep things from her, or there is literally hell for them. There have been times when the mother will even make her father cry, and there is nothing he does to stop this from happening, the mother wins arguments through screaming and threatening, always gets her way.

 

It is so bad, that both my girlfriend and have father have learned not to argue with the mother, it has always been this way. When it happens, they just give in to her, and say the mother is right, in the hope that she won't become like a "demon" and "devil" these is exactly what my girlfriend said, she looks like a demon, a devil. My girlfriend was so deeply affected by this, completely breaking down in tears just telling me about some of the times her mother was like this. What's even more alarming, if even though they will give in, the mother will not leave it there. She will not accept that, she gets worse and screams louder and louder. All of this is exactly what she told me.

 

She broke down crying numerous times, each time telling me something different that her mother had done in the past, she remembers it all, to detail, even one time when she was 3 years old, and another when she was 6. When she was 3, she was in bed, she heard her mum screaming at her dad, she went downstairs, her dad was crying, and her mum looked like a devil. She asked her mum to stop and her mum looked at her with such a nasty glare and told her to get back to bed. Her dad, who was crying, said to her "please no, stay here". He couldn't cope with the mothers screaming, and wanted his 3 year old daughter to stay downstairs. I don't know why, perhaps he hoped the mother would stop screaming in front of her.

 

This to me sounds like abuse, I told my girlfriend this, and she said but she is sorry afterwards. Then I was sure it is abuse, abusers are usually sorry afterwards, continuing the cycle of getting away with this behaviour.

 

This is why I made this post to begin with, I want to be certain I am doing the right thing because she told me her mother was going to be like this and she feels too weak to stand up for herself. Against my mother, you can't win, she told me. I have to be sure in myself that I am doing the right thing if I am going to try to get my girlfriend to stand up for herself and leave this situation.

 

 

 

 

 

So she contacted me tonight, it was hard to get her to say what actually happened, but it sounds alarming. All I got from her is that her mother won't let her come back. I told her we both knew she would do this, are you an adult? It's your life and your choice.

 

She wrote, I will quote exactly "honey, of course I am,, but you weren´t here and you didn´t see and hear my mum".

 

I wrote "Do you see me as the man you want to spend the rest of your life with?"

She replied "I do , I love you so much and yes I want to".

I wrote "Because of your mum, someone is going to be unhappy, you, or her"

She replied "my mum is going to do much worse things"

 

At this point alarm bells were ringing in my head, already her mum manipulates her by screaming at her and making her feel stupid. (yes her mum calls her stupid while screaming at her, sometimes over silly things, she broke down crying about it to me when she was in my home)

 

I asked her what her mum has threatened to do. She won't tell me. And has since then kept quiet that her mum threatened anything at all.

 

I told her she thinks she is keeping her relationship with her mum "good" by doing as she says, but she could really come to resent her mother over this. And that her mother won't hate her if she leaves if that's what she fears.

 

She replied "it´s not bout hating me, she is on pills and had told me she thought she was going to die when after operation and you just didn´t see her face and words she said to me and my dad crying"

 

I know about the operation they are talking about, it was a minor op to remove a potentially cancerous lesion, it was removed safely, tested, and it turns out it was not cancerous. This happened about 4 weeks before my girlfriend was due to go home. Immediately after, her mother was already manipulating her through self pity. She acted all ill, she told her she was scared she was going to die. I saw through this manipulation easily, her mother was trying to make sure her daughter came home, because the date was fast approaching. She intended to make my girlfriend worry that she could be dying, to guilt her into going home. And her father had already told my girlfriend that the mother expected her daughter would want to stay in England, and had told him "you better be on my side with this". Her father had this conversation with my girlfriend quietly, the mother knew nothing about it. He told my girlfriend if you love him and you can see him as the man to spend your life with, then you should book the flight ticket back now. He said you both have my blessing. He said just don't tell your mother we spoke, this conversation, it never happened.

 

While my girlfriend was here in England, I recall her expressing worry to me that her mother may take it out on her father if she leaves. She will him pay. Even if it's not his fault, which it wouldn't be, he pretends in front of the mother that he is siding with her.

 

My girlfriend told me there is an option for us to be together, in Slovakia, her parents want us to stay together, apparently, and would be happy if I moved to Slovakia. There's a big problem with this, Slovakia is a very poor country, her parents know this, that's why they told my girlfriend a while back to "get out of slovakia, it's not a good place to live, move somewhere better for you" now a perfect chance came along for that, the mum is trying to stop it from happening, by going to some unknown, and alarming lengths.

 

This only confirms what I said, that her mother just doesn't want her daughter to leave home, she doesn't care about anything else, she is a very selfish and from how it seems, an abusive, manipulative and controlling person.

 

There's no option for me to live in Slovakia, I couldn't get a decent job there, If I was lucky, I'd get a minimum wage job, £2 per hour. 4 times less than in England. My girlfriend is at university most of the time and I would have moved to a very poor life, to see her barely at all.

 

 

It sounds like a serious threat has been made. I asked her what did she threaten to do if you leave? She wouldn't tell me, she then claimed her mother hasn't threatened her. She doesn't want to tell me what her mother has said she will do if she leaves, I can only assume the worst, it must be something terrible.

 

My girlfriend said "honey you know this is against my will but I have to sacrifice this"

 

This is starting to sound really sinister at this point.

 

I said "You don't have to sacrifice anything, you feeling this way is just plain wrong. You may be making a terrible mistake that you will always regret."

 

She said "I know this everything"

 

I said "Then why? You know that you're making a mistake? Why would you willingly make a mistake?"

 

She said "because of things my mum would do"

 

I said "What did your mum threaten to do if you leave? You may as well tell me or I will assume the worst"

 

She said "don´t know what you mean ?"

 

I said "You said your mum would "do things" if you leave. What would she do?"

 

 

She said "I don´t know"

 

 

She said "no she didn´t say anything concrete, she didn´t say she is going to do something, I just know that she would be very very angry if I left"

 

 

This conversation lasted about 3 hours. I decided it was really time to end it. I said

 

"I will give you some time to think about everything, about what you want to do."

 

She said "I know what do I want to do"

 

I asked "What is that?"

 

She said "I want to leave"

 

I didn't feel like going in circles or explaining why she is capable as an adult of just getting up and leaving. She has two places to live away from home, her place of work, where she is given accommodation and she lived there for several months before we met. And then my home. This isn't a case of an immature teenager who has to live in the parents house, under parent rules. She can just leave.

 

 

I said "Well then like I said, I will give you some time to think about that, I understand this is very hard for you"

 

We ended the conversation not long after, we are still in a relationship, although at one point I was close to finishing it, but then realized she may just need time. She said she is under the most pressure she has even been in. I said again I will give her time to think about everything.

She told me she loves me very much.

 

I've seen my girlfriend break down and cry her eyes out. She said her mother can be so nasty, she is like a demon, she screams and says cruel horrible things, everyone in their family is at her mercy. And here's the shocker - I asked her who else knows about how your mother can be. She said "just the family who live in the same house, her father, and 2 brothers, and now you, i've never told anyone" So her mother has a nasty streak that she only shows to people in her close family. That's abuse, I am sure of it, it has all the signs of abuse.

 

When my girlfriend was living here with me, she felt comfortable enough to tell me about it, she was in such a state over it. Some of the things she said... She said at times her mother was so bad and looked so evil, she would get unwanted bad thoughts about what she wanted to say to her mother, while crying her eyes out, she said "I wanted to tell her to go **** yourself, go **** yourself and die". She is such a gentle soul, so soft and unwilling to get into any confrontation at all costs. And now I see why. Her mother is why she will never stand up for herself. And sometimes her mum screams at her for that to, that she never stands up for herself.

 

I need some opinions about the mother. What kind of person is this and is she really as I fear, manipulative, controlling, and potentially dangerous?

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aussietigerwolf

the mother sounds just like mine and yeah, she is an adult but the mother is able to make feel like a very scared little kid. My mum tried all the guilt trips and sent the cops after me (telling them I was a 16 yr old runaway) sent me letters pretending to be my bfs other woman and sent him letters saying all these lies about me. Eventually when none of that worked, she tried to get me to kill myself... I know people on here are going to tell you that she's just using you and this story as a way to leave you or whatever but... If you want to help this girl then you either need to go rescue her or find a way for her to rescue herself. Pm me if you want I can tell you how I suceeded.

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the mother sounds just like mine and yeah, she is an adult but the mother is able to make feel like a very scared little kid. My mum tried all the guilt trips and sent the cops after me (telling them I was a 16 yr old runaway) sent me letters pretending to be my bfs other woman and sent him letters saying all these lies about me. Eventually when none of that worked, she tried to get me to kill myself... I know people on here are going to tell you that she's just using you and this story as a way to leave you or whatever but... If you want to help this girl then you either need to go rescue her or find a way for her to rescue herself. Pm me if you want I can tell you how I suceeded.

 

Thanks. The thing is she told me she fears that the mother will try to make her pay, guilt her into feeling awful, by taking it out on the father, if she leaves. So the father would suffer, and it would be all my girlfriends fault, for leaving.. She loves her father, and he was the good parent who helped her get through this. I can't see how she can get around this. Her mother seems out of control and doesn't care how obvious the manipulation is.

 

She has even told me, as she grew up, she wishes she could be strong enough to just cut her wrists, and say look mummy, please stop. But she was never able to go through with it, but she really wanted to, and that's worse enough. She did at one point when she was really upset about it all, tell me that she wishes she was dead, that everyone would be better off if she just died (she was talking about herself) I said don't you ever say that, or do it, you would devastate me and your family.

 

I know this is all genuine. This girl is not a liar, and this is not my first relationship, she is the most honest, sweetest and most caring girl I have been with. Also, I was with her when she booked the flight ticket back to England just a few weeks ago, right after the conversation with her dad, who told her to go ahead and book it, that ticket cost £100, that's $150. She would not have booked it if she was just making up an excuse to leave me. And why would she have framed a photo of us, and bought a photo album and put loads of photos of us into it for my birthday, which was just last week, days before she left.

 

I'm half tempted to take everything I've wrote about her mother, the entire situation explained about our troubles with her mother and what she is doing and put it on her facebook wall for all of their family and friends to see. Her mother would really hate that. But I won't, I will give it time to see if my girlfriend will come through. I doubt my girlfriend would forgive me if I did that, it's exactly what her mother deserves though.

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And there I told her she should go home and tell her Mother face to face because it was the right thing to do. Now she's fully manipulating her to keep her there. She should have stayed here and told her over skype, I did not know her mother was this bad. She was a much stronger person when she was living here with me, now she is like a puppet who must obey the commands of her mother or something bad will happen. Not only could this destroy our relationship but she will likely go to on to seriously resent her mother one day, she is already half way there judging from all the crying about it to me and detailing of the things her mother had done in the past.

 

I know she helps her mother a lot at home, with the housework, and her mum bakes cakes and sells them and her daughter will often spend many hours helping her, I suppose that's a way of paying her keep. Her mum wants to keep it that way. Doesn't want her to grow up and move out.

 

I feel physically sick, I can't sleep, there is nothing I can do but think about this and wait. I wish there was something I could do. I don't know how to even go back from this, I actually hate her mother now.

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So I'm going to add my thoughts about this as I'm her age, with someone older, & planning to leave my family soon to be with him, in the UK similarly enough. But I've never had an issue of that magnitude with my family.

 

Towards the beginning of thread you mentioned her mother seeing her as a child, and then spoke about your conversation with her mother about the closeness of the family. I can understand where her mom is coming from and I don't think it's fair for you to say it sounds wrong! Firstly, my mom still sees me as a child yet everyone else much more educated than her sees my maturity, but you know what? Although I don't entirely agree with my mother I can completely empathize with her on her feelings of still seeing me as a child. I am her child! She has raised me and has taught me what she knows and she has seen my mistakes. My many mistakes. So if I were in her shoes, I think I would still see me as that little, learning girl too.. Secondly, I know many people of differing cultures who have those same traditions of being closest to family unlike people of your ethnicity. So the reasoning behind what her mom says is not fully selfish reasons and again I see her mother's point of view not being comfortable "sending her daughter away".

 

I was then going to comment on your girlfriends actions. They reflect a child since she is not able to make her own decisions for herself. But after reading what "aussietigerwolf" had shared, it made me think about it more because if her mother truly is as manipulative as you say, then that trauma could affect a woman at age 20 or a woman your age or even older without the right help so perhaps I'm wrong.

 

I'll add that I agree with TMichaels.

D0nnivain's comment is generalized, not all people at this age are only thinking that way and not all people at OP's age are at a set stage in their lives. I don't understand why people think it's okay to make a statement about someone you have no clue about but instead you guess from what you've seen from others. No two people are alike in this world.

 

In regards to your dilemma of what to do, maybe someone's advice here will help in your attempt to 'rescue' her but I see little hope. Most people side with family first in these situations, esp. if the person is a genuine, caring person. She cares for her father. Also the mother is manipulative and she cares for her mother too. I for one wouldn't be so easy to fall for some of the things her mother does because she is not showing love so how could I return with the right sense of love? Yes, I would feel some responsibility for my family's unhappiness but her mother doesn't care for her happiness so why continue to indulge her? That's why I question your girl. On the other hand, I was raised differently than her in that I know that I have to do what's best for me. That may or may not be with my family attached to my hip.

 

I wish you the best

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Well this is just the way that mothers feel, all mothers feel this way about their children. But a good mother knows she has to let go, not to force a 20 year old to do as she wants. In this specific case, she is holding her daughter back from moving to a better life.

 

She has a chance of a much better life here, many in eastern europe would love to come to the UK and live and work because the conditions are better for it here, and the salaries are much higher. She even told her daughter once before she would love for her daughter to go abroad, and meet a nice man in a better place. This is exactly what has happened, and now her mother doesn't like it. The place where my girlfriend worked has about 5 slovakian women working there, the rest are from other not so well off european countries, this is in my town in England.

 

My mother has advised me to just leave it be now, and let her think what to do, she is still facing this battle within herself. Yes she has so far said she isn't going to come back, but she could change her mind. She still wants to be with me. I have told her I will give her time to think about what she wants to do. She said she knows what she wants to do, she wants to leave and come back to England. I said again, okay, you must feel pressured, I will give you time to think about it. She said she has never felt more pressured.

 

I recall her once telling me a few months ago that what may likely happen is she will have to go to university because her mum will accept no change to the plan. But, she said she could then drop out from university after a month or two, and come back to England. If she goes to university and is genuinely unhappy, this may be the way it will go.

 

The flight she booked isn't until september 10th, and at the moment she is still on holiday with her parents, she had the whole conversation during the holdiay. She will be back in Slovakia to her parents home on by september 2nd.

 

She knows what she wants to do, it seems like she is battling with herself over this. What do you think? Best just leave her to think about it for now? Should I give her until september 10th, and if she doesn't get on the plane, then end the relationship? I don't know if keeping the relationship going is what will get her to come back, or if it I end it, perhaps then she would come back.

 

She hasn't had time to speak to her any of friends about this yet, and I already know that they all support her. Perhaps they will be able to convince her to leave.

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I'll give some details about her mother, what kind of person she is, I know this from what I've seen and from what my girlfriend has told me.

 

She doesn't work, she stays at home. When she did work before, it was only baking cakes and things which people ordered from her. Her daughter would help her in this a lot. During the time her daughter was in England, her mother stopped baking cakes, she said it was making her ill. So now, she does nothing, no job at all.

 

Her mother does not have her own friends. No social life. She has been a stay at home mother all of her life, and the primary care giver for her children, her daughter, who is 20, and her two younger brothers, who are 17 and about 12.

 

The mother has never had a child leave home before, she is used to them being one big family, as I said, she has no friends. She calls her daughter her best friend.

 

I looked through her mothers facebook photos. There is only photos of the mother, the father, daughter and two brothers. And lots of pictures of cakes. The mother, has no life of her own.

 

I don't know if you've heard of "empty nest syndrome" but it's the term used to describe the way a parent, typically the mother, will feel when a child leaves home. This is amplified in a stay at home parent who has been the primary care giver for many years. When a child leaves home, they can feel abandoned, and some of them have trouble handling it. Her mother is in the exact position to be affected by this. No job, stays at home, no friends, family is all that she has. And I suppose she'll be damned if she is about to let her only daughter leave home and leave her behind.

 

She doesn't care that she is deeply hurting her daughter, and holding her back from a better life, from a man that she loves, she only cares to make sure that she herself does not get hurt.

 

And it will always be that way. She will never willingly let my girlfriend go, and my girlfriend doesn't seem to want to leave without her mothers blessing. The longer this goes on, the worse it will be when she finally gets the courage to walk away.

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If she is to leave and burn bridges with her family, it has to be of her own accord. Even though we all agree that what her mother is doing is wrong, it is still her decision to make at the end of the day because she will be the one living with the consequences for the rest of her life. If she leaves solely for you and then things don't work out between the two of you, it will be a very, very bad position for her to be in, especially if she is financially dependent on her parents.

 

What you CAN do is offer to be there for her if she chooses to leave. And to truly mean it.

 

If she does choose to do the '30 week English and Maths' course in England, though... who will pay for her tuition? Her parents certainly won't and she might not be eligible to work depending on her student visa. Also international students pay much higher fees than domestic students. Are you willing to shoulder at least part of the cost?

 

Also what are her job options after that course? AFAIK English and Maths are not the most marketable qualifications, especially if you only have a 30-week course on them instead of a proper BA or BSc. I also just read that you said the course is 1 day a week... So that means just 30 DAYS of actual coursework. What course is this exactly...?

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OP - Isn't your girlfriend precisely at the point of her life where we all start to break away from our parents? It's hard - I am as independent as they come and it is very difficult for me to stand up against mine and i'm in my late 30's.

 

You are in a full blown state of panic right now. Completely understandable, BTW. You've had your dreams blown up. I feel horribly for you. The real question for you is: in 6 months, how will you wish that you handled this situation?

 

My advice is to tell her you understand this is a very personal situation for her and that it has many layers and that you are sympathetic to her in every way, but that you think it is best that she figure out what she wants without worrying about your relationship, that you're going to give her space and let her figure it all out.

 

This woman is flaking on you right now, maybe for a good reason, maybe not, but either way, she is flaking. I highly recommend you see this for what it is - a girl living a fairy tale who made a lot of future promises that she can't or won't fulfill, and you're getting left with the heartbreak.

 

If you respect your value and your feelings and your desires and your dreams you will stand up for them. You can do this without being mean or hurtful; but you are getting set up to be her "friend" - listen to her complain about the situation but do nothing about it. And you'll be on LS in 2 years posting about how you can't let go and your LD girlfriend has pulled way back and all of a sudden things don't feel right.

 

Take a stand for you right now. Tell her you'll be there for her if your relationship is her priority, if it isn't you understand but you can't be with someone who doesn't prioritize it, and then grieve, and grieve, and grieve.

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If she is to leave and burn bridges with her family, it has to be of her own accord. Even though we all agree that what her mother is doing is wrong, it is still her decision to make at the end of the day because she will be the one living with the consequences for the rest of her life. If she leaves solely for you and then things don't work out between the two of you, it will be a very, very bad position for her to be in, especially if she is financially dependent on her parents.

 

What you CAN do is offer to be there for her if she chooses to leave. And to truly mean it.

 

If she does choose to do the '30 week English and Maths' course in England, though... who will pay for her tuition? Her parents certainly won't and she might not be eligible to work depending on her student visa. Also international students pay much higher fees than domestic students. Are you willing to shoulder at least part of the cost?

 

Also what are her job options after that course? AFAIK English and Maths are not the most marketable qualifications, especially if you only have a 30-week course on them instead of a proper BA or BSc. I also just read that you said the course is 1 day a week... So that means just 30 DAYS of actual coursework. What course is this exactly...?

 

I don't think she will be burning bridges, she is their only daughter. Also, the father gave his blessing, he is okay with her leaving, it is the mother trying to stop it from happening, and that's only because she feels like she can not handle being without her daughter. I really don't see how she could hate her daughter, if anything she will be very sorry about how she treated her. Once her daughter finally stands up to her and leaves, manipulation and threats will achieve nothing. Also not to forget, her mother will never let her go, not now, and not in five years. I remember what she said to me, our family here will always stay together. I suspect based on her behaviour that the mother has borderline personality disorder or something.

 

Her place of employment has a room for her to stay in, it's in a hotel in my town, they also give her all meals. She lived and worked there long before we met. She is a very good employee and very useful to them because she speaks english so well, she can train the other slovakians who come to work there. She can get a job and place to live there any time she likes. She is in a safe position to leave in my opinion.

 

She has already been accepted for the courses, it is funded by the british government, they started funding it last year, prior to that, you had to pay. So this is a good opportunity.

 

It's GCSE maths and GCSE english. Of many british jobs I have looked at, they require GCSE maths and english at grade C or above. Doing these courses will also pave the way to further study in England if she chooses to do it.

 

Her alternative is to go to university in Slovakia and study tourism. It will not make her any more employable here in England, and she will likely be far worst off taking that route than if she had moved to England. And our relationship will be finished. If she truly loves me as much as she claims, how will she cope?

 

It's strange, during our 3 hour conversation yesterday, at first she seemed certain that she wasn't coming back, and that it was the only way. I tried to make her see sense.

 

By time the end of the conversation, it was on facebook, she seemed to be listening to what I was saying. Perhaps I was getting through to her.

In the end I decided to finish the conversation:

 

I said "I will give you some time to think about everything, about what you want to do."

She replied "I know what do I want to do".

I asked "What is that?" (I honestly expected her to say, I have to stay, but she said the opposite)

She replied "I want to leave".

 

She first told me she can't come back and ended up telling me she wants to leave. I'm guessing she is thinking hard about everything and still doesn't know what exactly she will do.

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Her place of employment has a room for her to stay in, it's in a hotel in my town, they also give her all meals. She lived and worked there long before we met. She is a very good employee and very useful to them because she speaks english so well, she can train the other slovakians who come to work there. She can get a job and place to live there any time she likes. She is in a safe position to leave in my opinion.

 

She has already been accepted for the courses, it is funded by the british government, they started funding it last year, prior to that, you had to pay. So this is a good opportunity.

 

It's GCSE maths and GCSE english. Of many british jobs I have looked at, they require GCSE maths and english at grade C or above. Doing these courses will also pave the way to further study in England if she chooses to do it.

 

Okay. To be honest, I have never heard of a visa that allows a foreigner to work full-time AND study a government-funded free course at the same time, barring a partner/spouse visa. However, my knowledge of immigration laws doesn't extend to the UK, so there may indeed be something that I might be unaware of.

 

Just make sure both of you do all your due diligence in research if you do go that route. If she decides to do this, get an immigration adviser to be safe.

 

And our relationship will be finished. If she truly loves me as much as she claims, how will she cope?

 

It's not usually as simple as that. You suspect that her leaving will not burn bridges with her family - but you don't know for sure. There are other considerations at hand.

 

At any rate, I want to reiterate that in this case you need to let her make her own decision without pressuring her. If she comes for your sake when she herself isn't sure of her decision, it will lead to a lot of resentment.

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Okay. To be honest, I have never heard of a visa that allows a foreigner to work full-time AND study a government-funded free course at the same time, barring a partner/spouse visa. However, my knowledge of immigration laws doesn't extend to the UK, so there may indeed be something that I might be unaware of.

 

Just make sure both of you do all your due diligence in research if you do go that route. If she decides to do this, get an immigration adviser to be safe.

 

 

 

It's not usually as simple as that. You suspect that her leaving will not burn bridges with her family - but you don't know for sure. There are other considerations at hand.

 

At any rate, I want to reiterate that in this case you need to let her make her own decision without pressuring her. If she comes for your sake when she herself isn't sure of her decision, it will lead to a lot of resentment.

 

Well where do you live? In the UK a european national is free to come to and work and or study in the UK, no visa required. These two college courses are free to UK and european adults. She was already accepted onto them, and starts september 11th.

 

Yeah you're right I realised last night she must feel very pressured and if so I need to back off. Which it what I did when I told her I would leave her to think about things and to just relax and remember the good times we have had.

 

I know she will go to friends for advice, she already has done this before she left England and I know that their responses were favourable and they support her to come to England. I think support from friends may be what gives her the courage she needs. At the moment it's literally me vs her mother and I don't think that's something I could win, she needs to hear it from others. She can't really talk with friends until she is back from the holiday, her internet access is limited.

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I noticed this about my girlfriend before, and we ended up talking about it. She always fears the worst. If something is wrong, in her mind, the worst possible scenario will happen, it's like the world will end for her. She seems to feel genuine fear and it's always for nothing. Several times this has happened, and she has become extremely worried or stressed when it was not necessary, and I could see it was not necessary. I have always advised her that it's not so bad as she feels it is and everything will be okay.

 

And you know what, I have been right every time, and I tell her after, see, you didn't need to worry so much.

 

So what I think is going on here, obviously leaving home is a big decision. She feels genuine fear about what will happen if she leaves, she fears the worst possible thing that could happen, will happen. She always thinks this way, sometimes I am even surprised at how she can become so anxious over the smallest thing that is really nothing to worry about. She has had panic attacks where she can barely breathe over minor things.

 

So her mum is shouting at her and using threatening behaviour and she genuinely believes her mothers threats are real and it will be unbearable when she carries those threats out after she leaves. I've been reading a bit about 20 year olds who want to leave home when the mother is against it. All kinds of harsh words and threats are said, but they are empty threats, if you leave, X will happen, or I will do X. And I know from experience with my parents, threat after threat, in the end I could just laugh at the threats and mock them because I knew they were empty threats. It was the same with my brother when he left home. And it was the same with my dad when he left home, his mum tried everything in her power to stop him. Funnily enough, if had stayed, I and my siblings would never have been born, there is an entire family of people living in this area of the country now because of his decision to leave. He made the right choice.

 

My girlfriend genuinely believes the worst will happen, that is why this is so hard for her. She remembers very well all those times she feared the worst, and I told her to relax, every time it was for nothing. I think next time we have a talk I should remind her of this.

 

I've been reading about fear, panic attacks and the such. It says people like this can jump very easily, easily freightened or shocked. My girlfriend is exactly like this, I am often surprised at just how easily she will jump out of her own skin at the smallest little thing. I've never seen someone so easily freightened. It's like fear is several times more intense for her. It would explain why it's so hard for her to leave against the will of her mother, who knows that screaming and threats is the way to control her.

 

This sounds like posttraumatic stress disorder, brought on perhaps from childhood abuse. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/918844-overview - Reexperiencing the trauma (nightmares, intrusive recollections, flashbacks, traumatic play) - She broke down into a teary mess in front of me several times, each time recalling a traumatic event from her past, every time it was something her mother had done.

Altered metabolism in areas of the brain involved in threat perception (eg, amygdala)

 

She is extremely jumpy, she has panicked to the point that she can not breathe properly, she has a seemingly amplified fear response, she always fears the worst. She breaks down into tears recalling traumatic events with great detail, right back to the age of 3, and she in her own mind believes that nobody can take her mum on. She has told me at times she wishes she was dead, everyone would be better of if i was dead, she says. I think my girlfriend is traumatised.

 

She is okay if I am nice and loving, but if anything happens that she could think i might be angry, she suddenly panics, and checks to make sure i am not angry with her, even though I am not angry.

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She started messaging me on facebook last night so we spoke for a while. She is still on her holiday, apparently not enjoying it as she said she is very stressed. She told me she is being sick in the morning.

 

That's when I realised something. When she was still living with me, she had to take emergency contraception because we wanted to make sure she would not get pregnant, she has taken it twice before, in the past, and it has never affected her periods.

 

So she took around the end of july, her period was due in 1-2 days, it's always right at the start of the month. Her period never came. I read about the effects and found out that emergency contraception can delay your period by up to a week. However in her case, she took it just a day before the period was due to begin, it is unlikely to have any delay at all.

 

Her period never came. By time august 15th when she left, still no period. It has been 3 weeks since her missed period.

 

So suddenly she is getting this sickness in the morning, and I've worked out that if she is pregnant, it would have likely happened anywhere between 4 to 6 weeks ago.

 

She is being sick in the mornings. There is a chance she is pregnant, and I think we will know for sure by the beginning of september if she misses another period.

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