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SO comes FIRST, then family/friends/etc.


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I have had so many arguments with my bf about friends of the opposite sex, and I see so many of the same posts from different people about their SO's staying friends with exes, that I just feel I need to share my insights.

 

If you really want a true, loving, long-lasting relationship, STOP BEING FRIENDS WITH YOUR EXES.

 

Basically, when you choose to make someone your bf/gf or your wife/husband, you are choosing that person above all others. You should spend the rest of your life doing everything you can to protect that relationship. After all, aren't you committing to love that person and be their partner in life, until death?

 

If you aren't willing to make that commitment AND SACRIFICE, or you don't KNOW that the person is right for you, then GET OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP. It is really that simple.

 

 

Here are some links to support my opinion. Really enlightening stuff for me, and honestly, I don't think I could marry anyone who wasn't on the same page with regards to this.

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Professor X

It really depends.

Family will come ahead of my SO until a certain point.

Friends will never be above my SO cause by the time I decide to call someone my SO.. well, yeah, she'd be important enough.

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A few questions I have...

 

Why are extremely close friends materially different than family?

 

Why are exes particularly bothersome? I don't personally find exes extra threatening since the partner has already "been there, done that", and decided it wasn't worth it, even if they still like the person. Aren't people they are emotionally connected to and haven't yet tried a sexual relationship with more of a risk or temptation?

 

Why does choosing someone above all others require blocking out everyone else? Why is remaining close to someone I once dated twenty years ago threatening to a spouce and somehow not "choosing them above all others?"

 

Any person I choose to fill that role in my life, vice versa, would be someone who valued my happiness as much as their own, and I would value theirs similarly. Why would I want to strip them of the other people who make them happy? Why would they want to do the same to me? How is that compatible with loving the other person?

 

That said, if there are legitimate external reasons, then yeah, consideration for your spouse may require you to honor their concern and happiness above your own and let a certain person go... for instance, I wouldn't be comfortable with my spouse being close with an ex with whom they had been in a domineering, controlling, and abusive relationship to their own detriment. In my mind that isn't a jealousy issue, but a valid concern for the possibility that this person's will could be overriden again and they could get sucked back into a situatuion that is hurtful not only to me but to them as well. Ideally, a spouse would understand the basis for the concern, acknowledge the intent behind the reason, and take steps to acknowlege my concerns.

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BTW, I wholeheartedly agree with these two red flags from the article you linked about the beginnings of affairs.

 

2) Keeping secrets.

You no longer feel comfortable telling your spouse about this person. You begin to cover up so as not to be found out.

 

3) An increasing sexual tension.

You admit your attraction for each other, but promise (complain) that you can never act on it. You fantasize what it would be like to be with this person. This helps to create a pretend world where everything would be wonderful if the two of you could just be together.

 

Both are warning signs of boundaries that are being crossed or about to be crossed that shouldn't.

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Personally, most people I know in real life, or have read their stories here on LS, are fulfilling needs with outsiders that should be fulfilled within their relationships or marriages.

 

Plus, in most of the aforementioned cases, one spouse is being very hurt by the other's unwillingness to end contact with an ex or close "friend" of the opposite sex.

 

In my case, my bf and I are trying to work out our relationship. While we were broken up, he dated another girl and was intimate with her. He now doesn't see a problem with his staying in touch with her.

 

It makes me feel like 1) he is trying to "keep the door open" in case we don't work out again and 2) he doesn't care that it hurts me, he's going to "be friends with" whomever he wants without regard to the health of our relationship.

 

Maybe you are not like that, but most cases I have read on here and seen in my personal life are that way, and I get very frustrated that people are so selfish that they put their own wants ahead of what is best for their relationship. If you really love your partner, you put what is best for the relationship as a whole above your own needs as an individual.

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I think your concerns and the reasons for them are logical and valid. This is a recent relationship that hasn't grown and established itself over time and pre-existed the relationship, indeed, this relationship was started specifically to replace you. In that context, I think your specific concerns about that specifc person are valid and worthy of consideration. The degree to which he is or is not willing to do so may reflect his general level of concern for your concerns.

 

As background for where I come from on this issue: I am 37 and my relationship with my closest female friend extends back twenty years to when we were teenagers. We did have sex back then, and we both acknowledge that there is no mystery or forbidden fruit there and neither of us would hurt the other or a spouse simply to do it again. We are both open with everyone about the closeness of the bond we share and regularly tell each other and other people in our lives that we love each other, though we are not "in love". I've been in her life through a husband that cheated on her and got the OW pregnant and through a husband that was mentally ill, refused to seek treatment or take medication, and who moved out, became dependent on his granmother for support, and had sex with anyone he could. I've been there through diagnosis of an incurable disease that will kill her in eight to twelve years and the discovery of an anyuerism that may or may not kill her at any time, in a matter of minutes, without any warning. We talk regularly about how she is handling it, about her children, about whether or not anyone will ever love her again given her circumstances, the inevitability of her death, how she wants to be remembered, what to tell her kids, and so on. In the meantime she is living life as much as she can and sometimes that means attending events or sharing adventures together.

 

People come here and say that friends aren't that important, they come and go, and they should simply be cast aside or thrown away like excess baggage. They'll claim that you just can't be faithful with an opposite sex friend, even though she never cheated sexually with either of her spouses (yes, I specified bcause some will call our freindship emotional cheating). I won't say you couldn't make an argument about why this might be threatening or damaging to a spouse, but the "friends aren't important" and "you can't be friends without f***ing" arguments aren't ones I find valid.

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Thanks for the support on my specific situation. As my bf (or whatever he is haha) are in an off/on relationship that's spanned nearly five years, we are going to a counselor to see if these issues can be resolved.

 

In your situation, my concern would be (if I was dating you) that you are investing so much time and attention and concern into this other person that you couldn't possibly fulfill my needs, too.

 

I realize not everyone shares my religious/spiritual beliefs, but a Christian marriage counselor that I think is very helpful talks about each of us having a "love bank". And when we do things to meet our spouse's needs, we make "deposits" that help grow our relationship. When we do things that hurt our spouse, we make "withdrawals".

 

"Friends" like yours also have "love banks", and by doing all the things you do for her, you're making some pretty hefty "love bank deposits" with her. It wouldn't leave much left over for another woman in your life. I think if I were your girlfriend, I'd feel like "the other woman". I'd also wonder how I could ever compete with this female friend of yours.

 

Anyway, maybe you and I will always have differences of opinion on the issue, but there are many others on this site who refuse to stop talking to exes even if it hurts the person they claim to love now. (And these exes are not 20-year friendships like the one you described.)

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In your situation, my concern would be (if I was dating you) that you are investing so much time and attention and concern into this other person that you couldn't possibly fulfill my needs, too.

...

It wouldn't leave much left over for another woman in your life. I think if I were your girlfriend, I'd feel like "the other woman". I'd also wonder how I could ever compete with this female friend of yours.

That is where I keep coming back to the feeling that it is vital for both partners to respect and consider and value the other person's concerns and happiness as much as their own. That is why you would be concerned that I didn't want this person ripped out of my life, and I'd be concerned that you didn't want to end up being the "other woman" in your own relationship and we'd figure out together how to work it out so I didn't have to give up a precious person in my life but you were assured that there were priorities, boundaries or limits to keep that relationship properly balanced and not robbing you of your place, of your needs, and your happiness.

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It really depends.

Family will come ahead of my SO until a certain point.

Friends will never be above my SO cause by the time I decide to call someone my SO.. well, yeah, she'd be important enough.

 

damn.. couldnt understand that bolded part over the sound of that cracking whip

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Professor X
damn.. couldnt understand that bolded part over the sound of that cracking whip

 

lol man :D Yes yes, I know how it may sound, but I am one that believe that friends come and go.

I don't keep friends from years and years ago.

I don't have a single friend from when I was at school, junior high school, high school, army, since I just finished university I still keep em around.

 

I just make friends as I come and go. New places, new friends; Well, that's how I roll anyway.

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lol man :D Yes yes, I know how it may sound, but I am one that believe that friends come and go.

I don't keep friends from years and years ago.

I don't have a single friend from when I was at school, junior high school, high school, army, since I just finished university I still keep em around.

 

I just make friends as I come and go. New places, new friends; Well, that's how I roll anyway.

 

Ehehe

 

Well, but see, here is where we're different, you and I (and I'm sure you and lots of other people!)

For me friends don't come and go. (When I mention friends here, I'm talking about people you trust and can rely on, not just people you hang out with)

I'm 28 now. I still maintain friends from when I was 6. I've kept friends from different settings all through the years.

Still have a few from school, just one fom high school, a few from university and a fair few from my professional life.

And I've moved countries in the meantime. A lot of my friends are still back home. I've now made new ones where I live as well. Sure, some of them won't stand the test of time. But some will, as the ones before them.

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Professor X
Ehehe

 

Well, but see, here is where we're different, you and I (and I'm sure you and lots of other people!)

For me friends don't come and go. (When I mention friends here, I'm talking about people you trust and can rely on, not just people you hang out with)

I'm 28 now. I still maintain friends from when I was 6. I've kept friends from different settings all through the years.

Still have a few from school, just one fom high school, a few from university and a fair few from my professional life.

And I've moved countries in the meantime. A lot of my friends are still back home. I've now made new ones where I live as well. Sure, some of them won't stand the test of time. But some will, as the ones before them.

 

Yes I agree, most people I meet are not like me in that case.

I know quite a few people that got friends ever since they were young; In fact, 2 of my best friends right now are friends ever since they were young, so ye.. :p

 

Besides, I'm sure we're are different in a lot of other aspects:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldXFxtqKGmU

 

KIDDING, everyone loves that! Or I hope so, they should!

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If you would read the links I shared, though, you would see that there are checklists to determine if your "friends" are truly friends, or if they are emotional affairs. It's one thing to have friends that you spend time with outside of your relationship. But they should become friends of your SO, too (maybe not nearly to the degree of friend they are to you).

 

And it sounds like most of you talking about friends are talking about TRUE friends; not people you dated, met off a dating site or had sex with on a regular basis.

 

If I meet a guy, and he tells me he's still best buddies with most of his exes, that would send me running to the hills. For one thing, it says he can't let go of the past. For another, it's just suspicious.

 

It also would make me wonder if he just needs attention so much from other females that he's just not trustworthy - like a little ego stroke and he'd cheat in a flash.

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Professor X
If you would read the links I shared, though, you would see that there are checklists to determine if your "friends" are truly friends, or if they are emotional affairs. It's one thing to have friends that you spend time with outside of your relationship. But they should become friends of your SO, too (maybe not nearly to the degree of friend they are to you).

 

And it sounds like most of you talking about friends are talking about TRUE friends; not people you dated, met off a dating site or had sex with on a regular basis.

 

If I meet a guy, and he tells me he's still best buddies with most of his exes, that would send me running to the hills. For one thing, it says he can't let go of the past. For another, it's just suspicious.

 

It also would make me wonder if he just needs attention so much from other females that he's just not trustworthy - like a little ego stroke and he'd cheat in a flash.

 

In your initial post you were talking about friends and family, NOT exes.

 

Exes are a whoooooooooooooooooooooole other story.

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I specifically said exes, but I also get annoyed with guys whose entire "friend" base are females they dated, slept with or in some other way were romantically connected. Those aren't "friends". :)

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CanadianGirl83

What about 'friends' who are clearly flirting with your boyfriend? Boyfriend is innocent. I don't believe he is doing anything wrong, but there's a facebook friend that won't stop laughing at his jokes, being overtly concerned when he's sick, overemphasizing commonalities.

What would be the appropriate action in this case?

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so do you think that there should be no opposite sex friends at all? (excluding exes and flirty people). just normal friends?

 

cuz i don't think thats healthy at all?

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I specifically said exes, but I also get annoyed with guys whose entire "friend" base are females they dated, slept with or in some other way were romantically connected. Those aren't "friends". :)

 

Some of them might be.

I am friends with some of my exes. Not all, but some. We meet up and IM regularly. I have abslutely no desire to ever "go" there again! At all!

 

I also have absolutely no problem if my SO wants to meet them. I have nothing to hide.

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What about 'friends' who are clearly flirting with your boyfriend? Boyfriend is innocent. I don't believe he is doing anything wrong, but there's a facebook friend that won't stop laughing at his jokes, being overtly concerned when he's sick, overemphasizing commonalities.

What would be the appropriate action in this case?

 

It's YOUR friend flirting with him? If it's your friend, then you need to decide if that person is actually a friend to you.

 

I read something in a counseling article once that your friends as individuals MUST become "friends" of your relationship, ie they care about your happiness and thus are supportive and encouraging of your relationship (unless of course it's abusive or something).

 

So if your friend is undermining the health of your relationship by flirting with your boyfriend, I think it's up to you to talk to her and/or decide if she's really even a good friend to you.

 

If it's HIS friend, then HE owes it to your relationship to put a stop to it and make it clear that anyone he's friends with must be a "friend" of his relationship, too, because it's what makes him happy.

 

so do you think that there should be no opposite sex friends at all? (excluding exes and flirty people). just normal friends?

 

cuz i don't think thats healthy at all?

 

Personally, my "ideal" situation would be one where my boyfriend has his guy buddies and I have my girlfriends, and we each get to have our "nights out" with friends and things like that. I also don't think there is a problem if you have co-ed friends through work and you go to lunch as groups of coworkers or something similar.

 

The problem in my opinion is when you have one or two close friends of the opposite sex that you're spending a lot of time with alone, chatting, talking on the phone or in person. Because it seems highly likely that spending that much time with another person is going to lead to real emotional connections, and then it's a very slippery slope to sharing more with that person than you do your SO. Next thing you know, you have feelings of love for this person who was "just a friend" and now you're stuck ending that emotional affair OR hurting your SO by revealing what's happened.

 

Some of them might be.

I am friends with some of my exes. Not all, but some. We meet up and IM regularly. I have abslutely no desire to ever "go" there again! At all!

 

I also have absolutely no problem if my SO wants to meet them. I have nothing to hide.

 

Your last sentence is very key... if your female friends or exes are so in the past that both you and she would be comfortable on a "group" outing with your new girlfriend, then I think you're probably okay.

 

Lots of people on this board insist that they should be able to spend alone time with exes or opposite sex friends independent of their bf/gf. I think that's highly disrespectful and suspicious. If your friendship really is innocent, then it shouldn't be a problem sharing that friendship with the person you claim to love.

 

Also, I would recommend a lot of transparency. If your gf knows you're having coffee with one of these people, but you never tell her anything about the meet-up, I think it's likely she'll become suspicious. But, if you went home that night and told her all about your conversation willingly, she would see that you have nothing to hide and that you're concerned about making her secure.

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I have had so many arguments with my bf about friends of the opposite sex, and I see so many of the same posts from different people about their SO's staying friends with exes, that I just feel I need to share my insights.

 

If you really want a true, loving, long-lasting relationship, STOP BEING FRIENDS WITH YOUR EXES.

 

Basically, when you choose to make someone your bf/gf or your wife/husband, you are choosing that person above all others. You should spend the rest of your life doing everything you can to protect that relationship. After all, aren't you committing to love that person and be their partner in life, until death?

 

If you aren't willing to make that commitment AND SACRIFICE, or you don't KNOW that the person is right for you, then GET OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP. It is really that simple.

 

 

Here are some links to support my opinion. Really enlightening stuff for me, and honestly, I don't think I could marry anyone who wasn't on the same page with regards to this.

I see exactly what you are trying to say. The only problem is you won't be able to control that aspect of a relationship. It more than likely will get that person to do stuff behind your back. Trying strains it and eventually it will break. I also see it where I should have my SOs back no matter what. If my fam is talking about her or our business I won't tolerate it. You may want it to but just try to get with someone who shares alot of your views.

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What does contact with exes have to do with putting SO above family? o_O

 

In my belief, if you choose to marry someone, that person supercedes even your family. meaning like someone else said that if your sister or mother are talking bad about your spouse or making them feel unwelcome, you take your SO side over the family.

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Your last sentence is very key... if your female friends or exes are so in the past that both you and she would be comfortable on a "group" outing with your new girlfriend, then I think you're probably okay.

 

Lots of people on this board insist that they should be able to spend alone time with exes or opposite sex friends independent of their bf/gf. I think that's highly disrespectful and suspicious. If your friendship really is innocent, then it shouldn't be a problem sharing that friendship with the person you claim to love.

 

Also, I would recommend a lot of transparency. If your gf knows you're having coffee with one of these people, but you never tell her anything about the meet-up, I think it's likely she'll become suspicious. But, if you went home that night and told her all about your conversation willingly, she would see that you have nothing to hide and that you're concerned about making her secure.

 

I'm a girl, btw! :)

 

I usually always invite my SOs for friend gatherings. Though sometimes, that's not appropriate, for whatever reason (maybe your friend of the opposite sex or even your ex just broke up with their most recent SO and need a shoulder.). But as long as you're upfront and honest about it, it should raise no suspicions.

If it did, though, that for me would be a red flag that my SO didn't trust me. And that could be a deal breaker.

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i dont know if i agree. some of us dont have groups of friends and prefer to hang out one-on-one with both guy friends and girl friends.

 

i hang out with guy friends one-on-one as well as my girl friends. my boyfriend does the same. i dont see an issue with him being "alone" with a member of the opposite sex if they are just friends. if he cheats, thats because he doesnt have the character that i want. it has nothing to do with having female friends. he would have ended up doing it anyway.

 

btw we are open with each other about our social plans and have met each others friends, opposite and same sex.

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i dont know if i agree. some of us dont have groups of friends and prefer to hang out one-on-one with both guy friends and girl friends.

 

i hang out with guy friends one-on-one as well as my girl friends. my boyfriend does the same. i dont see an issue with him being "alone" with a member of the opposite sex if they are just friends. if he cheats, thats because he doesnt have the character that i want. it has nothing to do with having female friends. he would have ended up doing it anyway.

 

btw we are open with each other about our social plans and have met each others friends, opposite and same sex.

 

I think the bolded part nullifies most of my objections. If you guys have been open about your plans, and he's invited you to meet his female friends and vice versa, then I don't really see a problem with it either. It's the people who want to keep their individual friendships with those of the opp. sex totally separate from the R. :)

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