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Neediness Paradox


battle1

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Hello there I'm a 21 year old male who has had a couple of relationships with girls but is unsuccesful in general when it comes to dating.

 

As i look fairly handsome and don't have any financial problems, i attribute my inadequacy in seducing women to my neediness and the feeling that i need to prove myself to my friends and family by presenting them a beatiful woman who is as smart and succesful as she is pretty.

 

As time went by and i thought more about the source of the problem, i found that neediness brings more neediness as you fail to seduce the women you find attractive because you're needy and then you become more needy because you can't seduce those women. The amount of stress that i put on myself has become unbearable in the last couple of months and i decided that i need to do something about it.

 

I started by Reading posts and articles about failure when it comes to seduction and from there i proceeded to reading books about it such as:

 

"Art of Seduction" by Robert Greene "Models: Attract Women Through Honesty" by Mark Manson "The Game" by Neil Strauss

 

As beneficial as i found them to understanding the problematic behaviors that i had when it came to interacting with women, i found that the hardest part is actually modifying those behaviors and having a habit of keeping them at bay.

 

I still find myself sabotaging possible relationships that i might have by finding illogical excuses about the women i talk to and want to know if there is anything anyone can suggest that i do to overcome these problems and finally focus on things that have a much more importance over my future.

 

Thanks.

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Can you define what you mean by "needy", exactly?

 

What specifically do you say or do that you feel a woman would find needy and off-putting?

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As i look fairly handsome and don't have any financial problems, i attribute my inadequacy in seducing women to my neediness and the feeling that i need to prove myself to my friends and family by presenting them a beatiful woman who is as smart and succesful as she is pretty.

 

 

But what if miss beautiful and successful treats you like crap and a less successful, less beautiful woman treated you like a king---would your family prefer the former over the latter?

 

And really, how much success does a 21 year old have? They've just reached the age of majority, they're pretty much still in school and haven't even begun on their life journey. Unless it's a family business or a trust fund handed down or they have been working on something all of their teen years, they're pretty much on that entry level grind in the workforce.

 

Generally speaking, successful people are that way because they're laser focused on their careers/making money, not necessarily relationships, and can be workaholics. While they may like the notion of having someone, and some will enter into relationships/get married, between that relationship and their life goals, relationships generally come in second, hence so many posts here of people lamenting how busy the person they want to get with is.

 

I think you should concentrate on finding a woman who cares for you and your esteem and quit trying to please your family.

 

You've got to get to the point where your family's approval doesn't inform your life choices because in the end, you're the one who will be living with this person and not them. It's easy to cast aspersions on people you're not directly dealing with, especially when you're already curling up with your own partner.

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CrosstimbersOkie
I still find myself sabotaging possible relationships that i might have by finding illogical excuses about the women i talk to and want to know if there is anything anyone can suggest that i do to overcome these problems and finally focus on things that have a much more importance over my future.

 

Being seductive to the opposite sex is a skill just like any other. As with any skill, to become competent you must practice.

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I'm not sure what you mean by needy and what your behaviors are that express this neediness.

 

One thing about dating, for as much as you loooove this person and want things to go well and think things went really great on that date, you have to curb your thoughts...it's one date. Don't think past date number two. Then don't think past date number three. After you've been dating awhile, you can start considering weeks in advance. Eventually months in advance. It's just steps. Take time to make a text or phone call. Texting too much/too little is always an enigma...just let her know you're thinking of her. You look forward to seeing her. If you text/call three times with no response, stop. Space out your contact. If you don't like texting all day, don't start that habit in the beginning because when you drop off later, it creates problems. Communicate your style. Compromise with hers.

 

You have to live with this person forever, not your family, so YOU PICK who you want. She may not be drop-dead beauty queen. If she's pleasing to you, that's what matters. If she treats you well, that's what matters. It really doesn't matter what the family thinks, and welcome to adulthood and being a solid unit as a couple - you are a united front with this woman - accept no poor behavior from your family. Boundaries.

 

I don't know what you mean by illogical excuses for women either. Are you super picky?

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As i look fairly handsome and don't have any financial problems, i attribute my inadequacy in seducing women to my neediness and the feeling that i need to prove myself to my friends and family by presenting them a beatiful woman who is as smart and succesful as she is pretty.

The above quote says a lot about you on so many levels and is probably a major clue as to why you're unsuccessful in dating. I would start with this statement and think about your thought process associated with it.

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Thanks everyone for your responses i really appreciate them.

 

As for your questions:

 

1- I am needy because i put too much pressure on the woman i am flirting with and think i am out of time and have to find "The woman of my dreams" immedieately and although i am a patient person in general, i am impatient when it comes to women.

 

2- By success i mean financial security because my family has a restaurant and i can always count on there for my income.

 

3- Yes i am Super picky and have ruined my chances many times by overthinking things.

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Success come with experience and MATURITY. When you get older you start to calm down, sweat less about the small stuff, and learn how to read body language/understand what your next move is...adjust accordingly.

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i attribute my inadequacy in seducing women to my neediness and the feeling that i need to prove myself to my friends and family by presenting them a beatiful woman who is as smart and succesful as she is pretty.

 

We have another thread going on the topic of objectifying women. I was trying to come up with a description of what objectifying would consist of, but you've just nailed it.

 

In all honesty, your reason for wanting a women sounds like what goes through a cat's mind before presenting a piece of dead prey on the doorstep of it's owner. You don't care about her - you just want those around you to pat you on the head and say "good boy".

 

You will not have success in dating until you start to look at women as people rather than conquests.

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I was 100% the same mindset.

 

1 & 3---I was super picky when it came to women. I felt that the women who I was dating was a reflection of my worth. The more attractive the women, the more I valued myself knowing I "got" a gorgeous women, and wanted my family and friends to "approve". It was a confidence boost. I was would get really down on myself when things didn't work out with the girl I was going after.

 

2 -- I worked all throughout high school and college, I know the value of money, and was financially stable.

 

I feel like everything you have mentioned, is a reflection of who I was in college. I'm not sure how you were in high school, but I didn't stand out at all, and got picked on. I hated it and really felt down about myself. Which is why when I went to college, I matured, hit the gym, and actually realized that I was attractive. This is what led me to go after those gorgeous girls. But, when I didn't get them, I felt down again. It too lead me to be needy in relationships.

 

I wouldn't stand up for myself. I respected women, but I didn't respect myself enough to stand up for myself if I was being treated unfairly.

 

I think everything you mentioned boils down to your confidence. That's how it was with me. Build that up, see your value, and realize that you don't need a girl for your happiness. Dating someone should be a supplemental happiness. It took me a bad 3 year relationship and a rough breakup to realize this.

 

You mentioned sabotaging relationships... I did the same thing man. I would talk to a woman who was a great person, but I'd find some reason not to date them (not hot enough, they'd be showing me how much they're into me and I'd feel like they were clingy)... Realize that people care about you and are interested in you, for being you.

 

Stop doing things for other people and start doing them for yourself and your own happiness. Nobody cares if you're dating a gorgeous girl, or one who isn't as attractive...as long as you're happy with them, that's all that matters.

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2- By success i mean financial security because my family has a restaurant and i can always count on there for my income.

 

Being supported by your parents is not an advantage. It's far more impressive if you're working your way through college and can pay for your vacations and dates from your own earnings. It doesn't matter if it's just a part time job flipping burgers - it's simply about showing that you have what it takes to succeed financially in life.

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I do so love your posts but this time, I have to disagree with you. Plenty of guys view women as nothing more than conquests but are still able to go around conquering them. As others have mentioned, seduction is a skill, and how one views women doesn't necessarily affect that skill.

 

Actually yes, you're quite right. There is a "special" breed of men who possess the innate arrogance required to both objectify and seduce women. However, I question whether those kind of men need to show off their prey to gain acceptance of others.

 

I suspect the other guys out there need to actually like a woman for who she is and what she adds to his life to have success in dating.

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Success with women comes down to looks and having the right attitude. I don't think actually liking her matters. Just look at all the threads where women are hung up on some good looking guy they barely know. Some of them on here now.

 

Yeah, but we're talking about women who are a bit broken. I sometimes want to smack a bit of sense into them.

 

Edited to add: I don't want to hijack the OP's thread. This would be a good conversation over a beer one day.

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We have another thread going on the topic of objectifying women. I was trying to come up with a description of what objectifying would consist of, but you've just nailed it.

 

In all honesty, your reason for wanting a women sounds like what goes through a cat's mind before presenting a piece of dead prey on the doorstep of it's owner. You don't care about her - you just want those around you to pat you on the head and say "good boy".

 

You will not have success in dating until you start to look at women as people rather than conquests.

 

You nailed my thought processing and the real reasons i feel down because i believe i do want people to pat me on the head and say "good boy", i seek validation when it comes to women i don't have any other feelings of inadequacy in my life and this has become like an obsession to me for the last couple of years.

 

 

 

 

I was 100% the same mindset.

 

1 & 3---I was super picky when it came to women. I felt that the women who I was dating was a reflection of my worth. The more attractive the women, the more I valued myself knowing I "got" a gorgeous women, and wanted my family and friends to "approve". It was a confidence boost. I was would get really down on myself when things didn't work out with the girl I was going after.

 

2 -- I worked all throughout high school and college, I know the value of money, and was financially stable.

 

I feel like everything you have mentioned, is a reflection of who I was in college. I'm not sure how you were in high school, but I didn't stand out at all, and got picked on. I hated it and really felt down about myself. Which is why when I went to college, I matured, hit the gym, and actually realized that I was attractive. This is what led me to go after those gorgeous girls. But, when I didn't get them, I felt down again. It too lead me to be needy in relationships.

 

I wouldn't stand up for myself. I respected women, but I didn't respect myself enough to stand up for myself if I was being treated unfairly.

 

I think everything you mentioned boils down to your confidence. That's how it was with me. Build that up, see your value, and realize that you don't need a girl for your happiness. Dating someone should be a supplemental happiness. It took me a bad 3 year relationship and a rough breakup to realize this.

 

You mentioned sabotaging relationships... I did the same thing man. I would talk to a woman who was a great person, but I'd find some reason not to date them (not hot enough, they'd be showing me how much they're into me and I'd feel like they were clingy)... Realize that people care about you and are interested in you, for being you.

 

Stop doing things for other people and start doing them for yourself and your own happiness. Nobody cares if you're dating a gorgeous girl, or one who isn't as attractive...as long as you're happy with them, that's all that matters.

 

My feelings exactly. I too had a rough 3 year relationship with a girl that none of my friends or family liked but i still stood up for her and all they said about her came out to be true and now i feel like i missed out on a lot of girls and have this persistent feeling that i am out of time and have to act right now.

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i proceeded to reading books about it such as:

 

"Art of Seduction" by Robert Greene "Models: Attract Women Through Honesty" by Mark Manson "The Game" by Neil Strauss

 

As beneficial as i found them to understanding the problematic behaviors that i had when it came to interacting with women, i found that the hardest part is actually modifying those behaviors and having a habit of keeping them at bay.

 

Do you know the biggest problem with meth amphetamines? It's that they work wonders at first. Every person I've known that started using meth had an almost immediate and substantial increase in their life productivity. Better at their jobs, clean homes, fun to be around. But before long, that turned around and they became a mess, lost their job, their teeth, and their self-respect.

 

The same is true with Greene and Strauss. There's some value there. There is no doubt that understanding why pick up artists are successful can help you understand how you interact with women. But like Mark Twain said, you should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it. Because those books - and forums like it - will cause you to metaphorically lose your teeth.

 

Yes, neediness or thirstiness or being a doormat is unattractive to women. Yes, some women actually respond to being treated poorly (at first) and gamed. But if you think that way, you will ALWAYS end up in a sad, unsatisfactory relationship, and likely a string of them because those methods are always intended to be temporary, abusive, or both.

 

Instead, you have to BELIEVE that no one is out of your league but that you are better than no one - and deserving of no one. And then you have to mirror your dates or potential partners' interest. Yes, women like confidence and so you have to be able to show that a) you're interested and b) there's no one person you need. If you invest in a relationship (even on a first date) more than the other person invests in it, it is unlikely to work out.

 

Work on mirroring more than picking up women. And yeah, you're 21. I was pathetic when I was 21 because I was not confident and I didn't understand interpersonal dynamics. So be OK with failing - most of us fail A LOT!

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