Guys are searching but is "Ms Right" gone?

[nospam99]

I'm fairly new here and don't see myself as a particularly active participant. Nevertheless what I have observed is that most of the threads are about problems rather than stories of stable happy endings (no, not that kind of happy ending ). Mostly elsewhere on the web, I've seen a lot of discussion where men are complaining that while they wish to be in a long-term, mutually-supportive, loving relationship all they are encountering on the dating scene is "drama". At a recent high school reunion, I had the opportunity to reconnect non-romantically with a number of ladies who to all appearances are already in the kinds of relationships I mentioned above. Granted the threads about problems on this site are almost certainly not representative of the general population. So I'm curious. Gentle loveshackers, are any of you aware of any published research that addresses the question of what percentages of the general population, broken down by male vs female (okay, and "other"), are in or out of what kinds of relationships and what their satisfaction is with those relationships? Hyperlinks are of more value than assertions. Hyperlinks to actual research papers would be greatly valued.

[Downtown]

Are any of you aware of any published research that addresses the question of what percentages of the general population, broken down by male vs female... are in or out of what kinds of relationships and what their satisfaction is with those relationships?

NoSpam, the 1972 book The Future of Marriage stimulated a flood of research on this issue. It's sociologist author, Jessie Bernard, claimed that family roles are less beneficial to women than men. She nonetheless believed that gendered socialization processes encourage women to highly value and identify with the role of wife and mother. She therefore concluded that marital quality is more important to women’s mental health than to men’s, while simply being married is more important to men’s mental health than to women’s.

 

Over the subsequent 45 years, Bernard's idea that marriage benefits men more than women while marital quality affects women more than men has been the basis of sociological research on gender, marriage, and mental health. As you would expect, the findings have changed as women's role in society has changed greatly during that period.

 

Twenty years after Bernard's book was released, a comprehensive review of the numerous study results was published in Flower's 1991 article, His and her marriage: A multivariate study of gender and marital satisfaction. A more recent overview of study results is available in Williams' 2003 article, Has the future of marriage arrived? A contemporary examination of gender, marriage, and psychological well-being.

 

The most recent comprehensive literature review I've seen is the 2014 meta-analysis, Gender Differences in Marital Satisfaction. It empirically evaluates the widely held assumption that women experience lower marital satisfaction than men. It examines 226 independent samples having a combined total of 101,110 participants. The authors find very small gender differences in marital satisfaction between wives and husbands, with the wives being slightly less satisfied.

 

Even this small difference disappears, however, when the authors look only at nonclinical samples (i.e., exclude couples that are in marital therapy). The difference also vanishes when they compare husbands individually to their respective wives (i.e., compare couples in individual marriages instead of comparing a group of husbands to a group of wives). I hope this is helpful, NoSpam.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Downtown

[act00]

The theme of this board is more problem solving and venting, so you're simply not going to see a lot of people talking about how great things are going. Basically it may seem like dating is just filled with a lot of hopelessness and that there's no good guy/girl out there or any Mr/Ms Right, just rejection, letdown, drama, and hopeless fantasy. You have to keep in mind that there are many, many relationships out there that are working and advance to marriage. We just don't see it here on this forum.

 

The description for the dating section is, "Dating, courting, or going steady? Things not working out the way you had hoped? Stand up on your soap box and let us know what's going on!" (emphasis mine)

 

You have observed real-life relationships that seem to be going well. On FB and social media, you see happy pictures and words, but the reality behind those happy words, stories, and pictures could be that of turmoil and a marriage/relationship that really isn't going well, rocky family life, bad situations at work/home/other family or friends. You only see what is presented in a venue where people aren't likely to announce their personal turmoil and display their troubled relationships for all to see.

 

Just keep in mind the venue and theme of the board, whichever you frequent. Any support board is going to have the struggles more than the accomplishments. It's really a place to go for people to vent, whine, learn, support, and offer advice. It's not the place to talk about all the greatness and bragging. People don't need to seek support when things are going well and won't be seeking an online forum or therapist in real life to help them cope with the wonderfulness of their life. They will seek information online and support boards when things are hitting the skids and they need some help or need to know they're not alone. I found this board because I wanted to see if it was a common characteristic in online dating that men (or women) perpetually text but never seem to find the time or ability to meet. What is common in modern dating with the technology we have today? And here I am.

[The Urbanyst]

If you are in a happy and thriving relationship.. why would to go online to talk about it?

[NuevoYorko]

Like the guy above said, people tend to go online to talk about their problems and when all's well we don't need advice and support in places like this.

 

I am interested in why you appear to conflate a lack of "happy endings" with female drama and a dearth of "Ms. Right." I'd tend to think that we contribute as much to the lack of stable long term love as the women do.

[Reddice]

I honestly believe there is no such thing as a Mr or Mrs Right. There is only a Mr and Mrs Right Now. Like others said, a marriage that looks great from the outside might very well be struggling. And nobody can see the future or read anybody's mind.

 

 

To give you example, I have a friend (in her 30's) whose parents have been married for about 40-45 years. Such a long time could only be the result of great marriage right? Wrong! The wife wants a divorce, and has been wanting so for many years, but is afraid to do so because he has threatened her with suicide. She fears what he will do if she pushes for the divorce, even there is no love anymore between them.

 

 

I could serve up many more examples in my close surroundings of people who are in unhealthy relationships and do not seek help, but I will spare you the sad stories. Sometimes being in a relation can be worse than being alone.

[AMarriedMan]

 

The most recent comprehensive literature review I've seen is the 2014 meta-analysis,Gender Differences in Marital Satisfaction. It empirically evaluates the widely held assumption that women experience lower marital satisfaction than men. It examines 226 independent samples having a combined total of 101,110 participants. The authors find very small gender differences in marital satisfaction between wives and husbands, with the wives being slightly less satisfied.

 

Even this small difference disappears, however, when the authors look only at nonclinical samples (i.e., exclude couples that are in marital therapy). The difference also vanishes when they compare husbands individually to their respective wives (i.e., compare couples in individual marriages instead of comparing a group of husbands to a group of wives). I hope this is helpful, NoSpam.

 

It is interesting that women initiate divorce most of the time. It seems that men tend to want to hang on to unhappy marriages longer than women. Why would that be?

[knabe]

It is interesting that women initiate divorce most of the time. It seems that men tend to want to hang on to unhappy marriages longer than women. Why would that be?

 

I think because women usually end up being the caretakers of the home and relationship (I don't mean provider, I mean caretaker). Most men I know - and this is NOT an insult - would have a harder time adapting without their wives than the other way around. It's the same reason why in the case couples who are elderly and have been together for 65 years, when the husband dies, the woman often lives for a significant amount of time afterwards, but when the wife dies, the man is statistically more likely to die within that year.

 

It doesn't make either spouse better or worse. It just kind of is - not always - but as a general average.

 

Plus, in the past, when women had a neglectful, hurtful, cheating, etc. husband, they didn't work and had no choice but to tough it out. Now that women can be more self-sufficient, they are less likely to stay in a marriage where their spouse will not be a good spouse.

[Gr8fuln2020]

It is interesting that women initiate divorce most of the time. It seems that men tend to want to hang on to unhappy marriages longer than women. Why would that be?

 

Legally, men have more to lose.

[Cookiesandough]

It is interesting that women initiate divorce most of the time. It seems that men tend to want to hang on to unhappy marriages longer than women. Why would that be?

 

 

I'm not sure but could be studies find men are happier in marriages than women are. They even show single(never married)older women are happier than older single men. Men are much more likely to remarry after divorce and more quickly. Basically, in general, men need women a lot more than women. Also, men often have more to lose!!

[Els]

If research papers are all that are wanted, and anecdotes or hypotheses are of no value... why not just Google instead?

 

If you are in a happy and thriving relationship.. why would to go online to talk about it?

 

Lots of people come to online forums to talk about a problem they had at the time, but many hang around for years even after a problem has been resolved or they found a new and better R. Either for the community, or out of habit. That being said, yeah, there is definitely a bias towards negativity. Even posters who are happy with their Rs are more likely to post on other people's threads about the problems that the other people are having, rather than create threads about their own Rs.

[Nogan]

I think it boils down to what each sex traditionally gets out of a relationship. I've noticed that women seem to have an easier time of being single. Advice directed towards women is learning to be independent because another man will soon wander into their life. Advice directed towards men is simply how to find another woman. That should speak volumes on its own.

 

But having been willingly single myself and talking to other people who were going through their own periods of "unattachment", the women typicall haven't had to compromise on their love life because men flock to them in droves. The guys I've seen try to play the date around card could be easily labeled as man whores because of how much effort they had to put into chasing a variety of partners.

 

Basically, I think men tend to invest a lot more energy into relationships, and have a lot more to lose as a result.

 

But I'm male, so take that with a grain of salt.

[Gr8fuln2020]

I have recently involved myself to an exclusive relationship with a beautiful, intelligent woman after the first date. Yes, the first date! We hit it off HUGE and when one is dating in his/her late 40s and finds a hot, fit, beautiful, intelligent, effervescent woman, you don't take anything for granted and don't waste time playing games. By this time/age, one should know what they want and when they find someone who fits the mold, you go for it, not wait for something else to come along. One of the fortunate things I have discovered is that dating older (40s) women, it's so much easier. No need to pretend, sex is not a topic that needs to be addressed after some arbitrary number of dates and talking about and the expectations of exclusivity seem to be so much straight-forward and desired. I have been fortunate to date some really 'mature-minded' women and it makes dating so drama-less.

 

She also has a very interesting and relatively accomplished history/background and no children. For me that is a major plus. Too perfect? We'll see.

 

Is there a Ms. Right out there?! Heck ya! Ms. Right for ME maybe the woman I am dating right now. The key is to keep a cool head, don't invest too much too early and be myself. Neither of us have this yearning to see each other every day and text every minute. We're both busy and that keeps us both balanced.

[Larryville]

It is interesting that women initiate divorce most of the time. It seems that men tend to want to hang on to unhappy marriages longer than women. Why would that be?

 

This reminds me of when a married couple, good friends, raised kids together back when I was in military.

 

My friend Mary, the typical hard working, engaged, communicative wife, and the couple was having problems. Her husband, Marvin very outgoing, hardworking, good dad, easy to talk too life of the party type absolutely refused to talk to Mary about their issues.

 

Mary as a last resort, booked a anniversary vacation for the two in Vegas at one of the top hotels. She planned every detail over their 5 day stay, helicopter ride, a Prince concert, fancy dinners it was amazing when she shared it with my wife and I.

 

When she sprung it on her husband, he looked at her and said “I don’t want to go to Vegas, too crowded, how much money did you spend?”

 

She looked at him and simply said “ I want a divorce” he looked back at her and his response was “well what are we gonna do with all this stuff?”

 

Older, old school guys (with wives like Mary) get lazy and complacent and when their wives sometimes ask them “why don’t you ever say that you love me” and the dudes many times reply “I don’t need to, I provide for the family, pay the bills, keep a roof over your head… or whatever” and likely they were raised in an environment where the women did everything while many sit on their @$$.

 

Sweet deal for guys, why the hell would they give that up?

 

Like someone said women don’t have to tolerate this crap anymore and leave. Exactly why there are so many bitter, broke, lost dudes trying to find another woman to take over the “husband raising duties”

 

Legally men have more to lose

 

Yup that too!

[RecentChange]

I agree with others, on the internet forum boards you hear about the problems.

 

The vast majority of my friends are in good, stable, long term relationships. A few are single, the single and struggling I can count on one hand.

 

Apparently they were able to find their misses and mister rights.

[Woggle]

I agree with others, on the internet forum boards you hear about the problems.

 

The vast majority of my friends are in good, stable, long term relationships. A few are single, the single and struggling I can count on one hand.

 

Apparently they were able to find their misses and mister rights.

 

Very you. These gender wars are largely fought online and the vast majority of people are not engaging in them.

[gaius]

If you are in a happy and thriving relationship.. why would to go online to talk about it?

Cause it's fun?

 

Hurt people can just be real negative about relationships sometimes. I met my girlfriend online and did what some people might consider stupid, relocated across country to her city a week after meeting her in person for the first time but it was just such a special feeling with her that I had to take the risk. And two years later I'm so glad I made that choice. I wouldn't trade a day I've spent with her for anything.

 

I'm once in a blue moon dumb and not perfect but she loves me. She's always smart but not perfect and I love her. We're perfect for each other though. If I can find Ms. Right anybody can.

[GorillaTheater]

If I can find Ms. Right anybody can.

 

 

Word, dude.

 

 

[knabe]

This reminds me of when a married couple, good friends, raised kids together back when I was in military.

 

My friend Mary, the typical hard working, engaged, communicative wife, and the couple was having problems. Her husband, Marvin very outgoing, hardworking, good dad, easy to talk too life of the party type absolutely refused to talk to Mary about their issues.

 

Mary as a last resort, booked a anniversary vacation for the two in Vegas at one of the top hotels. She planned every detail over their 5 day stay, helicopter ride, a Prince concert, fancy dinners it was amazing when she shared it with my wife and I.

 

When she sprung it on her husband, he looked at her and said “I don’t want to go to Vegas, too crowded, how much money did you spend?”

 

She looked at him and simply said “ I want a divorce” he looked back at her and his response was “well what are we gonna do with all this stuff?”

 

Older, old school guys (with wives like Mary) get lazy and complacent and when their wives sometimes ask them “why don’t you ever say that you love me” and the dudes many times reply “I don’t need to, I provide for the family, pay the bills, keep a roof over your head… or whatever” and likely they were raised in an environment where the women did everything while many sit on their @$$.

 

Sweet deal for guys, why the hell would they give that up?

 

Like someone said women don’t have to tolerate this crap anymore and leave. Exactly why there are so many bitter, broke, lost dudes trying to find another woman to take over the “husband raising duties”

 

 

 

Yup that too!

 

 

OOOOOO Larry, you're gonna lose your MGTOW/RedPill card over this post

[RecentChange]

Mary as a last resort, booked a anniversary vacation for the two in Vegas at one of the top hotels. She planned every detail over their 5 day stay, helicopter ride, a Prince concert, fancy dinners it was amazing when she shared it with my wife and I.

 

When she sprung it on her husband, he looked at her and said “I don’t want to go to Vegas, too crowded, how much money did you spend?”

 

She looked at him and simply said “ I want a divorce” he looked back at her and his response was “well what are we gonna do with all this stuff?”

 

I would also argue that this shows a compatibility issue.

 

While when presented with divorce I could never imagine responding with “what are we going to do with the stuff” IF my spouse had planned a trip like that to Vegas – I would have had the same response. Hate Vegas, jesus that’s a lot of money, and who the heck is paying for this?!?!

 

But I would hope my spouse KNOWS that I hate Vegas, and spending money. That’s why when he planned a trip for us – it was renting a convertible, road tripping the south west, and staying off strip (as Vegas made the most sense as a city to fly in and out of).

 

He knows me, and knows to plan a trip on a budget, as I am the bread winner and hate to squander. Why would she plan all of that for “them”?

 

Sounds like he wasn’t really considered in it at all.

[Larryville]

I would also argue that this shows a compatibility issue.

While when presented with divorce I could never imagine responding with “what are we going to do with the stuff” IF my spouse had planned a trip like that to Vegas – I would have had the same response. Hate Vegas, jesus that’s a lot of money, and who the heck is paying for this?!?!

 

But I would hope my spouse KNOWS that I hate Vegas, and spending money. That’s why when he planned a trip for us – it was renting a convertible, road tripping the south west, and staying off strip (as Vegas made the most sense as a city to fly in and out of).

 

He knows me, and knows to plan a trip on a budget, as I am the bread winner and hate to squander. Why would she plan all of that for “them”?

Sounds like he wasn’t really considered in it at all.

 

Hmmmm had to process this…

 

Well both of them were workaholics, had not taken a vacation in a long time. He had never been to Vegas, was a huge Prince fan.

 

She is not an inconsiderate person, she put up her money for the trip (both were high ranking folks, made close to the same money)

 

Her point was the marriage was drowning, she made the decision to TRY and spark something and did all the planning so he would not have to worry about it.

 

Now my ex-wife planned an entire trip to NYC for us to see the Lion King. I typically don’t like live theater, hate crowds most of NYC is. However… I was blown away by the show, she took me to an amazing Thai restaurant, did a bunch of stuff and I had an amazing time, in fact we went back to NY every year after that to do a dinner and a Broadway show.

 

All dude had to do was roll with it, try to have a good time, thank her for her efforts and open up communication.

 

Well that ended, she is now with a guy who treats her well, is open to trying new things, communicates well ect.

 

Like I said there are way too many old school dudes who are just like him.

[knabe]

Hmmmm had to process this…

 

Well both of them were workaholics, had not taken a vacation in a long time. He had never been to Vegas, was a huge Prince fan.

 

She is not an inconsiderate person, she put up her money for the trip (both were high ranking folks, made close to the same money)

 

Her point was the marriage was drowning, she made the decision to TRY and spark something and did all the planning so he would not have to worry about it.

 

Now my ex-wife planned an entire trip to NYC for us to see the Lion King. I typically don’t like live theater, hate crowds most of NYC is. However… I was blown away by the show, she took me to an amazing Thai restaurant, did a bunch of stuff and I had an amazing time, in fact we went back to NY every year after that to do a dinner and a Broadway show.

 

All dude had to do was roll with it, try to have a good time, thank her for her efforts and open up communication.

 

Well that ended, she is now with a guy who treats her well, is open to trying new things, communicates well ect.

 

Like I said there are way too many old school dudes who are just like him.

 

You sound very unselfish, gracious, and emotionally intelligent.