She never suggests any dates!!

[drdolittle]

Had tons of dates with tons of kissing and touching ( no sex yet although we have slept together ) and still she doesn't suggest dates. We message loads everyday, infact she mostly instigates the conversations on messenger.

 

Is she lukewarm or is she sending me a hint cause if I stop inviting her out then it will be over. Or is she simply wanting to be chased?!

 

Cannot figure this one out and cause I really like her I'll just keep inviting her on dates !!

[preraph]

There are a lot of women who do not believe they should be the one asking a man on a date. This used to ALWAYS be the case and so their parents may have taught them this. There is some conventional wisdom that works for some people that says you let the man do the chasing. Then there are other women who will certainly be aggressive enough to be sure they meet a guy they think might be interesting, but who will STILL leave it up to him to make the move once they've done all the work. Then there are women who will suggest what they'd like to go do, and of course, this would be the norm once you are in a relationship for a while, but who may still let the man pay, but there are others who will, no matter what the circumstance occasionally go dutch or pick up the tab or cook dinner or bake cookies or whatever.

 

Anything goes. If you want her to feel free to ask you out, tell her that but tell her why. Like if you want her to ask you out to make you feel wanted, then first of all realize if you weren't wanted, she wouldn't be accepting your invitations. If you're wanting her to ask you out so she'll pay, realize that might not be how she views it and just have a conversation sometime about "We could go out more if you'd chip in OR if we didn't always spend money when we go."

[SammySammy]

Frustrating isn't it?

 

Some women are teaching other women that they shouldn't put forth any effort at the beginning of the relationship. According to them, if a man is interested he'll willingly do all of the work. Set up all of the dates. It's common advice these days. Some sort of "rules" gimmick.

 

You can do what you want.

 

I don't play those sort of games. Cut loose with the quickness.

 

Prefer to deal with a woman who doesn't need to play games to get a man. Someone mature who can communicate her wants, needs, and concerns clearly.

[elaine567]

Yes, it can be a game, but for some women it isn't.

It is just the way it "should" be, or they do not feel confident enough to actually ask a man out on a date, even one they have been on loads of dates with.

 

It is very variable, with lots of factors involved, but I don't think any man should assume a woman who is not asking a man out on a date is playing games.

[SammySammy]

Until she figures out she wants to participate in the relationship, I'm out. Game or no game.

 

"Ain't nobody got time for that."

 

We're adults. Act like it.

[Gr8fuln2020]

In this day and age, the vast majority of women expected me to make the plans early on. My ex wife was very traditional until we got married. Afterwards, she made some of the plans and dates. I personally don't find anything wrong with it. What I do is make her a part of the decision making process. I really don't find any reason to make unilateral decisions, rather, provide options and go from there. Win-win, I think.

[coolheadal]

Had tons of dates with tons of kissing and touching ( no sex yet although we have slept together ) and still she doesn't suggest dates. We message loads everyday, infact she mostly instigates the conversations on messenger.

 

Is she lukewarm or is she sending me a hint cause if I stop inviting her out then it will be over. Or is she simply wanting to be chased?!

 

Cannot figure this one out and cause I really like her I'll just keep inviting her on dates !!

 

Sound more of a buddy than anything else. Why do you care. Just have fun, if you meet another girl while your out with this buddy go for it. I bet she'll be upset but why should she be she's not giving you what you want. You have no sexual physical relationship you just have emotional buddy to hangout with might have casual non-sex sleeping arrangements. But your okay with that crap I see too!

[angel.eyes]

Ask her to plan a date. Simples.

 

Clear communication is critical in dating. Time to start practicing it.

[No_Go]

I personally strongly prefer the man to plan the dates. I often pay for both as a gesture that he does the planning... But if dating, at least the first 3-4 months is 100% on him to plan. If he doesn't - to me it implies he's passive or just lukewarm and therefore I'd let him go...

 

Maybe she thinks similarly.

 

But! No physical stuff after a sleep over ... unless she's underage or something, I'd assume she just thinks of you as a buddy.

[Gr8fuln2020]

Had tons of dates with tons of kissing and touching (no sex yet although we have slept together) ...

 

How do you define sex? Intercourse only? When you 'sleep' together, is there anything 'sexual' going on?

[salparadise]

 

Some women are teaching other women that they shouldn't put forth any effort at the beginning of the relationship. According to them, if a man is interested he'll willingly do all of the work. Set up all of the dates. It's common advice these days. Some sort of "rules" gimmick.

 

Especially on LS. You'd think women here would be more advanced. But they keep repeating this stuff in thread after thread. The belief seems to be along the lines of... the guy must be pre-sold, making a big display of chivalry, and it's the woman's job to gauge his level of interest. Makes me want to puke.

 

 

Prefer to deal with a woman who doesn't need to play games to get a man. Someone mature who can communicate her wants, needs, and concerns clearly.

 

I used to just accept that this is the way things were, sort of like gravity, but after a previous relationship with a truly progressive (albeit, not quite right) modern woman who was reciprocal from the git-go, I simply can't go back to the 19th century mentality. That passive stuff is the biggest snore fest imaginable.

 

For one thing, I've learned to never be pre-sold. Women should show a guy what she's made of... in thought, word and deed. And the smart, progressive women should be working to teach the next generation that it's more than okay, actually preferred, to be fully functional humans, not passive little wifey candidates.

[rushed]

Yes, it can be a game, but for some women it isn't.

It is just the way it "should" be, or they do not feel confident enough to actually ask a man out on a date, even one they have been on loads of dates with.

 

It is very variable, with lots of factors involved, but I don't think any man should assume a woman who is not asking a man out on a date is playing games.

 

Pretty much this. I know I never liked asking a guy out on a date (even if we had already gone out on a few dates and even if I knew he liked me a lot) because I was scared of rejection. I have really bad anxiety like that. I think it took me about a month of dating my now boyfriend before asking him out on a date to go see my favorite band, and even then I remember being nervous before asking him.

 

OP, I think you've got a good plan going there. Continue to ask her out and date her. Hopefully in time she'll feel more comfortable and confident and will ask you out to do things. (Disclaimer - UNLESS she's of the mindset that whoever is the asker is the one who pays for the dates and that's why she doesn't ask you out. You don't get that feeling from her, right?)

[meeji]

Ask her to plan a date. Simples.

 

Clear communication is critical in dating. Time to start practicing it.

 

This!

 

There could be many reasons why she's not asking you out on a date. You won't know which it is until you ask her.

 

If you have different views on dating/courting/relationships then it's better to find them out sooner rather than later.

 

Talk to the girl and find out about her views and perspective. My guess is she was raised that way, to believe that the ball is always in the man's court.

That doesn't make her any less interested in you or the relationship she has with you. Don't jump to conclusions and possibly make an ass of yourself.

[SammySammy]

Especially on LS. You'd think women here would be more advanced. But they keep repeating this stuff in thread after thread. The belief seems to be along the lines of... the guy must be pre-sold, making a big display of chivalry, and it's the woman's job to gauge his level of interest. Makes me want to puke.

 

I used to just accept that this is the way things were, sort of like gravity, but after a previous relationship with a truly progressive (albeit, not quite right) modern woman who was reciprocal from the git-go, I simply can't go back to the 19th century mentality. That passive stuff is the biggest snore fest imaginable.

 

For one thing, I've learned to never be pre-sold. Women should show a guy what she's made of... in thought, word and deed. And the smart, progressive women should be working to teach the next generation that it's more than okay, actually preferred, to be fully functional humans, not passive little wifey candidates.

 

Exactly. The women here should know better.

 

And here's the thing: I don't mind taking the lead and making the decisions. That's part of my personality and who I am. That's what I do in every area of my life.

 

Just don't expect me to make all the decisions at first, then want "equality" later. It doesn't work that way, sweetheart. If I start out leading, I'm going to lead the whole way.

 

Don't expect to play your little wallflower game and then switch it up later. Ain't gonna happen. You better make sure you really want to follow before trying to play me. Make sure that's really your role and your place in a relationship.

 

Because if I get the slightest hint she's playing games ... it's over.

[No_Go]

Politely disagree.

 

It is not about being a 'little wifey candidate'.

 

It is just about the fact the vast majority of women wanting a masculine alpha male - I.e. one who takes charge. I think if a guy is not asking me out 1) he's not interested (then why bother) 2) he's interested but shy / passive / insecure (qualities that make me lose interest) 3) something stops him - like he's dating someone else (then I run the hills).

 

For guys from the scenario 2), natural selection works against them... It is not the the women are faulty.

 

Especially on LS. You'd think women here would be more advanced. But they keep repeating this stuff in thread after thread. The belief seems to be along the lines of... the guy must be pre-sold, making a big display of chivalry, and it's the woman's job to gauge his level of interest. Makes me want to puke.

 

 

 

 

I used to just accept that this is the way things were, sort of like gravity, but after a previous relationship with a truly progressive (albeit, not quite right) modern woman who was reciprocal from the git-go, I simply can't go back to the 19th century mentality. That passive stuff is the biggest snore fest imaginable.

 

For one thing, I've learned to never be pre-sold. Women should show a guy what she's made of... in thought, word and deed. And the smart, progressive women should be working to teach the next generation that it's more than okay, actually preferred, to be fully functional humans, not passive little wifey candidates.

[No_Go]

So if a woman is approached by 10 men and needs to select one, who do you think wins? The one waiting her to 'court' him? I'm very independent and still the idea to court a dude makes me cringe. If I initiate - it just means he's deeply in the friend zone already.

 

Exactly. The women here should know better.

 

And here's the thing: I don't mind taking the lead and making the decisions. That's part of my personality and who I am. That's what I do in every area of my life.

 

Just don't expect me to make all the decisions at first, then want "equality" later. It doesn't work that way, sweetheart. If I start out leading, I'm going to lead the whole way.

 

Don't expect to play your little wallflower game and then switch it up later. Ain't gonna happen. You better make sure you really want to follow before trying to play me. Make sure that's really your role and your place in a relationship.

 

Because if I get the slightest hint she's playing games ... it's over.

[salparadise]

 

It is not about being a 'little wifey candidate'.

 

No? I think that's exactly it. Passivity. Timorous. Reticent. Demure.

 

It is just about the fact the vast majority of women wanting a masculine alpha male - I.e. one who takes charge. I think if a guy is not asking me out 1) he's not interested (then why bother) 2) he's interested but shy / passive / insecure (qualities that make me lose interest) 3) something stops him - like he's dating someone else (then I run the hills).

 

Bubbas looking for arm candy. Yea, I know about the evolutionary argument... but there are many facets to that. I want to mix genes with a woman who's capable of a lot more than birthing babies.

[SammySammy]

So if a woman is approached by 10 men and needs to select one, who do you think wins? The one waiting her to 'court' him? I'm very independent and still the idea to court a dude makes me cringe. If I initiate - it just means he's deeply in the friend zone already.

 

When she chooses me, I've already "won".

 

She just needs to realize it takes two to tango. I'm not going to dance the first half of the dance by myself just to prove something to her.

 

No one is asking a woman to "court" a man. Just be an active participant in the initial stages of the relationship rather than sitting back and doing nothing. As if the man has to prove something to her. As far as I'm concerned, she has just as much to prove to me.

 

It's a team effort. Either she can be on the team or off the team. Her choice.

[SammySammy]

Furthermore, this "sit back and let him do all the work" crap is a beta male test.

 

No alpha has to tolerate that. Because women compete for alphas. They are scheming, strategizing, and putting in work before the alpha even knows she exists. They work hard to attract and keep an alpha from day one.

 

The purpose of finding a guy that will do all the work up front is to find a good beta provider. That's the guy you marry, have a couple of kids by, make him go to work and pay all the bills ... and not give him sex for 20-30 years. While you have an alpha lover on the side who doesn't give a crap about you or what you want.

 

That's the purpose of trying to find a sucker to do all the work up front.

 

And why some don't like the truth being told about it.

[SwordofFlame]

So if a woman is approached by 10 men and needs to select one, who do you think wins? The one waiting her to 'court' him? I'm very independent and still the idea to court a dude makes me cringe. If I initiate - it just means he's deeply in the friend zone already.

 

If she's gonna pick the guy who caters to her every whim in every way possible while she offers nothing in return, do you really think that's a recipe for a successful relationship? I don't think the men here are asking for the woman to chase them, but instead to merely reciprocate and put in as much into the relationship as the man does.

[SammySammy]

If she's gonna pick the guy who caters to her every whim in every way possible while she offers nothing in return, do you really think that's a recipe for a successful relationship? I don't think the men here are asking for the woman to chase them, but instead to merely reciprocate and put in as much into the relationship as the man does.

 

That guy is definitely NOT alpha. Not a "winner".

Edited July 16, 2017 by MidKnightDreams

[Bastile]

I'm very independent and still the idea to court a dude makes me cringe.

 

So it should. It's an abomination.

 

Most women won't be initiating the dates. And that is submitting the power of the relationship to me. It's a male privilege. It means that I control the timeline, the escalation of the relationship, manage my finances, and maybe manage a rotation. It's her allowing me that power. I wouldn't (and don't) have it any other way.

 

It's submission.

 

Got nothing to do with being a provider (I'm so far from a provider that it's laughable). I've had women who were deeply in love with me waiting on my next date idea, and my next contact. When I said that we're going to London for the day, I arrive for the train to find her having paid for my tickets. Then I insist on paying for other things throughout the day - that is trusting and enjoying each other's generous nature. Women that mooch get netflix 'n' chill - whilst resources get put to better quality women. That's managing a rotation.

 

And admittedly, when they tried to lead it (suggesting dates, trying to change the communication), I would often blow it off. Because I went through a phase of pushing R-selection too much.

 

Blow it off, and reframe. The frame generally being mine (with small compromise here and there).

 

Been getting more balanced over the last six months, but this is something that I won't be changing.

 

Men lead. Women respond, react, encourage, please/appease.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Bastile

[basil67]

As a crusty old 2nd generation feminist, I really dislike the princessy attitude of women who are quite happy to have the financial benefits of equality, but demand men do all the work in dating.

[basil67]

Politely disagree.

 

It is not about being a 'little wifey candidate'.

 

It is just about the fact the vast majority of women wanting a masculine alpha male - I.e. one who takes charge. I think if a guy is not asking me out 1) he's not interested (then why bother) 2) he's interested but shy / passive / insecure (qualities that make me lose interest) 3) something stops him - like he's dating someone else (then I run the hills).

 

For guys from the scenario 2), natural selection works against them... It is not the the women are faulty.

 

Oh, it's exactly about being a 'little wifey'. Bastille summed up perfectly how the man chasing the woman sees her as very much lesser than him. It's all about the man being the boss. This is quite different to when a woman goes in as an equal and remains an equal. Personally, I think it's foolish of a woman to set herself up as a person who doesn't make decisions - but then I place high value on a man who sees me as an equal.

 

I also agree with the guys who say the guy who chases you is a Beta. An Alpha is rare and women will flock to him, giving him the choice of women.

 

Lastly, in answer to the question about which of the 10 men chasing I would choose? I'd give first choice to the guy who has compatible morals, ethics and attitude and with whom I have the best conversation. It matters little to me how many dates he organised and paid for. I'm just not cut out to the kind of woman who isn't on the front foot when it comes to organising.

[basil67]

I've got to add: By going into a relationship as an equal, I get to immediately see which men are OK with the idea of women having an equal voice and say in the relationship. If he's the kind of guy who needs a passive woman who waits for a man to plan, he won't stick around. Which is a good thing - saves us both a lot of trouble in the future.