How long should I expect to wait for my efforts to be reciprocated?

[xyz1234]

So here is my problem. Between the Bumble app and real life I've had a good amount of girls initiate the first conversation and ask me out recently. The problem is that from that point forward they expect me to do everything (including planning and paying for the first date that THEY asked for). After two dates or so of me planning and paying just to give someone a chance who was more interested from the start than I was, I say screw it and give up.

 

I used to go on maybe 5 dates with someone new where I'd chase and be ok with putting in all of the effort but as I get older I have less patience. It really seems to me like the majority of women expect to have their butt kissed by a guy even when they initiated dating in the first place. It really has me feeling like there is nothing in it for me and I'm on the verge of giving up altogether. Even when I dated women longer term there was only one who put in the same or more effort than I did, and she was way over the top with it and turned out to have a serious mental illness.

 

So I guess what I want to know is, how long should I expect to wait before most women will start putting in a fair share of the effort? And please don't say that they are putting effort into their appearance for each date, they put in a similar amount of effort to go out to dinner with their girl friends as well. Also if they cook me dinner once for every 3 times I take them out to dinner that also does not make things fair. I'm talking 50/50.

[Imajerk17]

Yes, we as men are expected to lead and initiate. If a woman goes 5 dates without making an effort to contribute though, then she sucks. And you are being a pushover.

 

I generally pay on the first date but keep the first dates inexpensive. This is a stranger you are meeting for the first time! If she isn't making some effort to contribute by the end of the second date, then I am no longer interested.

 

You are evaluating her as much as she is evaluating you. We as men are allowed to screen for women who are givers and who are into us enough to contribute themselves.

[xyz1234]

Yes, we as men are expected to lead and initiate. If a woman goes 5 dates without making an effort to contribute though, then she sucks. And you are being a pushover.

 

I generally pay on the first date but keep the first dates inexpensive. This is a stranger you are meeting for the first time! If she isn't making some effort to contribute by the end of the second date, then I am no longer interested.

 

You are evaluating her as much as she is evaluating you. We as men are allowed to screen for women who are givers and who are into us enough to contribute themselves.

 

Well what you are saying is exactly what I'm doing. But even going on 2 dates before realizing they still aren't going to reciprocate in any way is very frustrating when it happens just about every time. And with women who basically asked me to take them out on a first date in the first place. It's just insane to me.

 

My most recent experience was with a girl from my gym. I was on my phone being oblivious and almost stepped on her while she was doing abs in the corner. I apologize and leave the area. I get home later and have a new FB friend request from someone I don't know (creepy if roles were reversed eh?). I ask if she's the girl I almost stepped on and yep it was.

 

I ended up taking her on two dates where she didn't offer to split the bill and I continued talking to her but stopped asking her out. Eventually we were supposed to go to the gym at the same time but then she ended up saying she couldn't go and I said "bummer, I wanted to see you." She replied telling me that I should take her out then and see her outside of the gym. I told her she could ask me out too and she said "that's the guy's job." Gotta love the double standard. I asked how long it would take for her to put in any effort and she basically just said this isn't going to work for her

[Imajerk17]

If a woman asks you to "see you", that's typically great. If she asks you to "take her out", maybe less so.

 

It sounds to me that these women are bossing you around, frankly. Some of it is on them but a lot is on you. I mean, what was it about her that made you take out Gym Girl in the first place? You couldn't at least make your first date a gym date so you can see that she isnt weird? She overall just sounds rather bossy and stalkerish to me. No thank you.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Imajerk17

[MountainGirl111]

Well, I may not be the best one give advice on this.

 

Some of my boyfriends started out as friends. So, when we started dating after being friends first, it was not so much the guy taking the lead, but us switching off and it felt very natural for me to ask him to do stuff and making the plans. I found that they usually enjoy that to an extent...as long as it's not too much.

 

I can tell you as a woman I wouldn't like it so much if the guy is always the one to make the plans, pay for stuff, etc, etc. I have an independent spirit and it feels just as right for me to say, "Let's do this". Or, "How about if we do that?". Also I wouldn't expect a guy to pay for everything. That's just me.

[xyz1234]

If a woman asks you to "see you", that's typically great. If she asks you to "take her out", maybe less so.

 

It sounds to me that these women are bossing you around, frankly. Some of it is on them but a lot is on you. I mean, what was it about her that made you take out Gym Girl in the first place? You couldn't at least make your first date a gym date so you can see that she isnt weird? She overall just sounds rather bossy and stalkerish to me. No thank you.

 

Nah I'm not letting them boss me around. What usually happens with girls from online is I'm very passive because I have plenty of options. This is going to come off as cocky but at any given time I have multiple women waiting for me to ask them out on a first date. Often times they will say "when do I get to meet you?" and I tell them I'm busy but I'll let them know. Really I'm not that busy, I just know how it's going to go and that there's a 95% chance they won't put any effort in, so I don't have much incentive.

 

With the gym girl we did have what were basically a couple "gym dates" before I took her out. The first date was all me and I had no problem asking and paying. As for the second one, she had told me she wanted to go out for pizza once she was done with her bikini competition that she had been dieting for. I still set up the date when the time came and paid for it when she didn't offer. She had every chance to offer also, because it turned out the pizza place only accepted cash and I only had credit in me. I don't know for sure that she didn't have cash but she just watched as I was like "uh oh" before realizing they had an atm. But yep, definitely bossy and stalkerish...

[xyz1234]

Well, I may not be the best one give advice on this.

 

Some of my boyfriends started out as friends. So, when we started dating after being friends first, it was not so much the guy taking the lead, but us switching off and it felt very natural for me to ask him to do stuff and making the plans. I found that they usually enjoy that to an extent...as long as it's not too much.

 

I can tell you as a woman I wouldn't like it so much if the guy is always the one to make the plans, pay for stuff, etc, etc. I have an independent spirit and it feels just as right for me to say, "Let's do this". Or, "How about if we do that?". Also I wouldn't expect a guy to pay for everything. That's just me.

 

Damn, why can't I ever meet any women like you? Haha

[Shining One]

How long should I expect to wait for my efforts to be reciprocated?

Only you can define a threshold that's acceptable to you. Personally, I give women 3 to 5 dates to reciprocate. I also keep an eye out for red flags, such as women who use the phrase: "That's the man's job."

I used to go on maybe 5 dates with someone new where I'd chase and be ok with putting in all of the effort but as I get older I have less patience. It really seems to me like the majority of women expect to have their butt kissed by a guy even when they initiated dating in the first place. It really has me feeling like there is nothing in it for me and I'm on the verge of giving up altogether.

I understand this frustration since I've experienced it myself. The women you're looking for are in the minority (at least among the women I've dated). You just have to keep searching and discarding. Eventually, you'll find one. I did.

[act00]

Men have a habit of leaving, especially if sex gets involved. I figure, I may as well get a meal out of it. You sound rather arrogant and self-involved. If she asks you out, tell her you want to go dutch on your date, when you plan the date, and if she declines the date, so be it. You're weeding out the ones you don't want.

[xyz1234]

Men have a habit of leaving, especially if sex gets involved. I figure, I may as well get a meal out of it. You sound rather arrogant and self-involved. If she asks you out, tell her you want to go dutch on your date, when you plan the date, and if she declines the date, so be it. You're weeding out the ones you don't want.

 

LOL, what did I say that comes off as arrogant and self involved? Yes, I said I have plenty of options but this whole thread is about how it's getting me nowhere anyway. I guess not wanting to be used for free dates by entitled women who won't reciprocate makes me the bad guy...

 

Also I think almost no woman would ever go out with a guy that asked her to go Dutch beforehand. Even I know that that just comes off as tacky. If when the bill comes they ask if I'd like to split I usually accept, but I'm pretty sure it's usually a test that I (gladly) fail.

 

Also I have never left a girl after sex was involved, or at least not for that reason. I have however been rejected for not pushing for sex early enough for their liking, when all I was trying to do was show that that wasn't all I was after...

[MountainGirl111]

"That's the man's job." (?!)

 

Say what?

 

This is 2017.

 

Nothing wrong with the guy paying for stuff. But people should just be natural and do what they do without placing certain 'expectations' on who does what. Does that make sense?

 

If I want to buy a guy something that would by my way of showing affection...my treat, so to speak. Doesn't mean I'm keeping score or anything like that.

 

Just be yourself and whatever happens happens.

[MountainGirl111]

Damn, why can't I ever meet any women like you? Haha

 

:cool:lol

 

My nickname says a lot. I'm just a pragmatic person who is used to doing for myself, in a lot of cases. People got to eat. (smile) Nothing wrong with cooking up some good grub or paying for a man's dinner. (grin) If there is something I really want to do, I do it and there's nothing wrong with being the one to come up with the ideas and inviting someone along.

[Dtrain2EtOWN]

Nah I'm not letting them boss me around. What usually happens with girls from online is I'm very passive because I have plenty of options. This is going to come off as cocky but at any given time I have multiple women waiting for me to ask them out on a first date. Often times they will say "when do I get to meet you?" and I tell them I'm busy but I'll let them know. Really I'm not that busy, I just know how it's going to go and that there's a 95% chance they won't put any effort in, so I don't have much incentive.

 

With the gym girl we did have what were basically a couple "gym dates" before I took her out. The first date was all me and I had no problem asking and paying. As for the second one, she had told me she wanted to go out for pizza once she was done with her bikini competition that she had been dieting for. I still set up the date when the time came and paid for it when she didn't offer. She had every chance to offer also, because it turned out the pizza place only accepted cash and I only had credit in me. I don't know for sure that she didn't have cash but she just watched as I was like "uh oh" before realizing they had an atm. But yep, definitely bossy and stalkerish...

 

Your acceptance criteria makes you easy bait for dumb girls with just enough brains to bumble for food. Either straight up ask if their apple pie is your dessert or refine your filter by education. Generosity is easy when you have a fat pay check. Hot doctors come in male and female varieties. There are options and then there is her.

[Shining One]

Generosity is easy when you have a fat pay check. Hot doctors come in male and female varieties. There are options and then there is her.

Personally, I've found no correlation between income level and tendency to reciprocate. I've dated women who made twice as much as me who never reciprocated. My current girlfriend, who makes about a third of what I make, reciprocated on our second date. It's a mindset. Women who want to reciprocate do so.

[Dtrain2EtOWN]

Personally, I've found no correlation between income level and tendency to reciprocate. I've dated women who made twice as much as me who never reciprocated. My current girlfriend, who makes about a third of what I make, reciprocated on our second date. It's a mindset. Women who want to reciprocate do so.

 

I said generosity is easy when the paycheck is fat. Meaning reciprocity is viable in the first date scenario whatever it may be. Someone who lives paycheck to paycheck should be suggesting a meet and greet for coffee. She determined while in line what he would have and extracts the particulars he normally uses (sugar, cream). Hopefully he doesn't select for himself a snack when she declines graciously to split a this or a that. She suggests he grab the table and she the particulars. On her way to the table she picks two of the cakes he tried to tempt her with. Both have given on this level playing ground.

 

Now if he is generous and smitten and suggests they dine at Dorsia she can accept on the condition that he join her for dessert. (Not at Dorsia and not in the sack.) She makes him a dessert to die for in her kitchen and then suggests they walk it off. He knows where she is at. If he wants her more than the money he goes again. She always is commensurate in reciprocating to her financial capacity. She gives the best of what she has. This girl exists. With all the options this girl may be hard to detect. If you have to have payback go for the generous girl with dough.

[zouz71]

Personally , Paying even for all dates is not an issue for me ; provided that she is a giver in all other areas and especially in intimacy .

 

I am more than satisified if a woman put even only 50% effort ; because right now i am tied to a woman who expects me to do everything even seducing myself .

 

it sucks

[basil67]

I'm a woman. If I asked a man out, I'd plan and pay. If he asks me out, he can organise and pay. I reckon these women who ask you out and then expect you to pay are using you as a meal ticket. I say this because a woman who's progressive enough to ask a man out should also be progressive enough to plan and pay. Being such a contradiction doesn't reflect well on her.

 

The only thing I'd caution you on is that women who are happy to plan and pay are probably have progressive views on the place of women in society. However, if you want a girl who has more traditional views on a woman's role, you'll probably have to suck up the cost of paying for her.

[CptInsano]

The problem is that you are chasing women, so of course they can ask you to pay. Not sure if you like the challenge or a particular type of woman, but I was done with that in 8th grade and have never looked back.

 

Since then I simply got to know women. If it became obvious prior or during the 1st date that they wanted me to pay for everything going forward simply for the benefit of their company, then I just moved on.

[Starfish82]

This is really just about effectiveness. Why don't you refuse to pay more than half or make more than half the effort and see what you end up with? If the only women you can get after applying that filter are crazy/ugly/insecure or otherwise undesirable then you'll know - to get what you want you need to pay and put in the effort. Then decide what you'd rather have: settle for an undesirable woman or pay/make the effort.

 

Life doesn't owe you anything. Anything worth having that you really want requires effort. No it isn't always fair. The cost is determined by the market dynamics and what everyone else is willing to do. In your case, society has created a certain market structure and you have a certain position within it. All you can do is decide whether to pursue an effective strategy given your position, or sit there and lament your position.