Taking The Lead

[OatsAndHall]

So, in all of my misanthropic dating adventures, I have run into a situation that I have rarely seen before. I have been out on two dates with a woman who is fairly reserved and shy. They've been great dates and we've talked about going out again tomorrow. I had to take the lead on planning the first two dates as it seems like she struggles to make time/place decisions. I think this is due to her shyness.

 

We're supposed to meet up for coffee tomorrow. I have the day completely open while she has a three hour commitment in the afternoon. She loves coffee and I am a tea drinker so I asked her to set a time and the coffee shop as I don't know any of them in town. She was very enthusiastic about the date ("Coffee would be fantastic!") before I kind of dumped it in her lap but became stand-offish and non-committal after ("Well.. I guess I'll text or call you between now and then, in case anything comes up.."). The tone in her voice changed drastically and she almost seemed upset that I was asking her to set up the time.

 

So, I am debating now. I could have potential plans on Friday night with a buddy. And, I found a coffee shop in town that has great reviews. So, I am thinking about giving her a call tonight and and asking her if tomorrow morning at ___ coffee shop works for her.

 

Thoughts?

[Ieris]

I think you should just give her a call to find out whats happening then go about your day.

 

There are many "I don't mind" and "I don't know" people when it comes to making plans, which translates to me as indecisive or just lazy. I like to decide where we're going and what we're doing so I don't mind that.

 

I know it would be nice if she made plans for the both of you from time to time but some people just aren't good with planning and may worry taking you to some place that you won't like. If that is the case then you should just take the lead, you choose where you want to go and places that you like.

[Larryville]

There are many "I don't mind" and "I don't know" people when it comes to making plans, which translates to me as indecisive or just lazy.

 

Oh man I hate that…

 

Yes guys should take the lead early in the process, however…

 

One of the most attractive factors for me is a women who is outgoing, active and someone who don’t mind taking the lead, making suggestions.

 

Now I’m not saying this is true of all “quiet” types but those type of women in the long run would be passive aggressive types in the long run. Those in my OLD experiences (and in my age range) came out of relationships where their male partner either did not solicit their input or did not care about their opinion. It is learned behavior…

 

some people just aren't good with planning and may worry taking you to some place that you won't like.

 

Sometimes you must let your partners in the developing stages in a relationship that their views, ideas, suggestions whatever are valued and welcomed.

[d0nnivain]

Shyness is not about the inability to make plans or decisions. Those are different issues.

 

 

At best she is indecisive. She may be concerned about spending your money. She may think if she picks the place she is expected to pay & that is making her unhappy. She may not be that into you. She may fear disappointing you.

 

 

If you want to see her, go with your plan of choosing the place based on reviews & then going out with friends Friday night. If this date is tomorrow & she's religious, the fact that it's Good Friday could be wigging her out.

 

 

Either way, unless you control this situation nothing will happen.

[kendahke]

I vote Friday with your buddy.

 

Anyone who turns up their nose at planning something as simple as coffee just needs to be put back on the shelf.

 

Recently, I made plans to meet someone for coffee and the place I chose was half way between where we lived. I'd never been to this area before, but guess what? I did a yelp search in the area and found a really well reviewed coffeehouse where we could meet.

 

It really was a nice place. Too bad I got stood up. But all of that to say: if she cared enough to maintain momentum, she'd have cracked open Google and did a search. She couldn't be arsed, so call your buddy and go have a great time. She's showing you a slice of who she is. Believe what you see, not what you hear.

[reeseyummy]

Other than thinking about "if she likes you enough to go for coffee with you", maybe think about do you think she's worth your time? Do you feel like there is potential with you two? If so, then it wouldn't hurt to take the lead, it might be the date that you WOW her! That's what happened to me

[smackie9]

You did nothing wrong, it's just incompatibility of expectations.

 

There are women out there that feel if the man doesn't make the effort to do the arrangements, then she feels he doesn't value her......that last comment took the wind out of her sails.

 

I don't think you should have to bend over backwards and change for someone you hardly even know. If she doesn't like it, she can stuff it, and you can find someone else to go out with....I agree, go out with your buddy.

[OatsAndHall]

Shyness is not about the inability to make plans or decisions. Those are different issues.

 

 

At best she is indecisive. She may be concerned about spending your money. She may think if she picks the place she is expected to pay & that is making her unhappy. She may not be that into you. She may fear disappointing you.

 

 

If you want to see her, go with your plan of choosing the place based on reviews & then going out with friends Friday night. If this date is tomorrow & she's religious, the fact that it's Good Friday could be wigging her out.

 

 

Either way, unless you control this situation nothing will happen.

 

Well, she did call right after she got off of work today but I was coaching a track meet so I couldn't take the call. I called her back and left a message but haven't heard back yet. So, I think there's some genuine interest there. She has jumped at the chance to go on dates and we've had a good time together thus far.

 

Yes, she is religious and I get the feeling that Good Friday is an issue for her. We originally planned on going to a movie tomorrow night but the theater is tiny and they're playing awful movies. I offered to take her to dinner but she was very hesitant to take me up on that. But, she was excited when I asked her to go out for coffee. So, a dinner date on Good Friday probably wasn't a good option for her.

 

I am discovering more and more that she is very "traditional", for a lack of better choice of words. She asked me if I was going to pick her up for our first date or if we should just meet at the restaurant. I have never had a woman mention picking them up on a first date and she was relieved when I said that I'd prefer to meet up. She's in her mid-forties and grew up in the tiny, conservative, religious community that I teach in.

[act00]

The only thing I worry about with passive planners is that they may, ultimately, resent you for always choosing things they aren't too keen on, but don't seem to grasp that they actually have to say what they want and you're not a mind reader. You do the best you can, and when they say, "that sounds good," and enjoy it (pretend to?), you go with it, and you tend to plan in a similar fashion for different dates. It can kill the dating process and it can kill a long-term relationship when they finally start opening their mouths, angry and resentful, and by then, the damage is done.

 

She has baggage, you are aware, and you seem smitten enough to get through the shell, and I think that's fine. Of course plan your Friday with your buddy, and continue seeing where you can go with this lady.

 

How religious is she in that would she expect you to convert and fully participate in her faith? This needs to be discussed because if you really don't plan on participating, it can be a deal-breaker for her...and you because that's not your thing. Vastly differing beliefs can be the death of a relationship - some work, a lot more don't.

[OatsAndHall]

The only thing I worry about with passive planners is that they may, ultimately, resent you for always choosing things they aren't too keen on, but don't seem to grasp that they actually have to say what they want and you're not a mind reader. You do the best you can, and when they say, "that sounds good," and enjoy it (pretend to?), you go with it, and you tend to plan in a similar fashion for different dates. It can kill the dating process and it can kill a long-term relationship when they finally start opening their mouths, angry and resentful, and by then, the damage is done.

 

She has baggage, you are aware, and you seem smitten enough to get through the shell, and I think that's fine. Of course plan your Friday with your buddy, and continue seeing where you can go with this lady.

 

How religious is she in that would she expect you to convert and fully participate in her faith? This needs to be discussed because if you really don't plan on participating, it can be a deal-breaker for her...and you because that's not your thing. Vastly differing beliefs can be the death of a relationship - some work, a lot more don't.

 

I got a hold of my friend last night and made plans for this evening. I then talked to her and asked her if she wanted to do coffee in this morning. I told her that something came up and that an evening date wouldn't work for me. So, that's done and done.

 

I don't know if "smitten" is the right word. At this point, I am just enjoying the dates without getting caught up in the "what-ifs'. I'm still paying attention to red-flags as I imagine there are going to be some things to through given her past. I will call things off if her past manifests itself in poor communication or issues. My ex-wife had a traumatic childhood so I got a solid dose of behavior that is unacceptable for me.

 

These last two dates have been nice because it doesn't appear as if either of us needs to put on the "dating" face initially. She's older than I am which had been good for me. I have been mainly dating millenials up to this point and I don't click with many of them. Simply things like wanting to have a phone conversation over texting have been HUGE for me.

 

Yes, the difference in religious views certainly concerns me. However, I have found that those people that have seriously strong convictions will bring it up early as they don't want to date an agnostic. But, that has always been a line in the sane for me; I will not participate in another person's religion. I don't mind attending social events put on by a church (kind of inevitable when you live in a religious community) but you won't catch me at services or mass.

 

On a final note, I will do have a deal-breaker that might go into place soon (i.e. today..) There is a Baptist church in this area that is very closed off, homophobic and borderline fanatical. I will not continue to date her if she attends that church.

[d0nnivain]

Get through Easter & see how things shake out next week.

[OatsAndHall]

Get through Easter & see how things shake out next week.

 

That's the plan right now. I was actually pretty surprised that she agreed to a date as Easter weekend is holiday for people around here. We'll see how today's date goes. We talked over the phone quite a bit this week and she has been more open and chatty so we'll continue to get to know one another.

[OatsAndHall]

Get through Easter & see how things shake out next week.

 

Lol... I should have waited to respond to this until AFTER the date... I don't think I'll have to wait until after Easter, lol.

 

Wow, that was a bust. A complete 180 from our previous two dates. There were so many lulls in conversation... I spent the majority of the time asking her about herself and her hobbies to try and fill the voids, getting brief replies and then ended up talking about myself. I f-cking hate talking about myself the whole time on dates.. She started to get bored quickly by the end of the date and almost looked annoyed that she was there. Then I got the dreaded "side hug of death" at the end of the date.

 

So, chalk this one up to experience.

[clia]

Lol... I should have waited to respond to this until AFTER the date... I don't think I'll have to wait until after Easter, lol.

 

Wow, that was a bust. A complete 180 from our previous two dates. There were so many lulls in conversation... I spent the majority of the time asking her about herself and her hobbies to try and fill the voids, getting brief replies and then ended up talking about myself. I f-cking hate talking about myself the whole time on dates.. She started to get bored quickly by the end of the date and almost looked annoyed that she was there. Then I got the dreaded "side hug of death" at the end of the date.

 

So, chalk this one up to experience.

 

Do you think part of it might be that your "date" was coffee in the morning? That sounds like a really boring date. Did you at least eat breakfast? Seems like a third date should be in the evening.

[OatsAndHall]

Do you think part of it might be that your "date" was coffee in the morning? That sounds like a really boring date. Did you at least eat breakfast? Seems like a third date should be in the evening.

 

Our first two dates were dinner dates and they went well. We were talking about going to a movie tonight but there's nothing showing that either of us wanted to see. She was hesitant about dinner tonight and I think it is because she's observing Good Friday etiquette as she is religious. So, coffee/tea it was. Coffee and tea are generally good "filler" dates for me later on as we've grown more comfortable talking to one another and it's pretty easy going.

 

To be honest, I have no clue what the hell happened today as it was complete departure from our first two. There's been lulls in our conversations before (she's a bit reserved) but things got back on track with a few quick questions. We had a pretty good half-hour before things got uncomfortable in a hurry. I am a bit put-off that she became annoyed at the end of the date. Okay.. So you're bored... Try contributing to the conversation..

 

I do generally ask a woman out for another date after getting the "side hug" finale just so they don't think that I was trying to get into their pants the whole time. So, we'll see what happens.

[Titanll]

Things would have gone so much better for you if only you were a coffee drinker. She friend-zoned you when she found out you drink tea...

[OatsAndHall]

Things would have gone so much better for you if only you were a coffee drinker. She friend-zoned you when she found out you drink tea...

 

Lol... Yeah, that might not be far off the mark, honestly.

[Southern Sun]

She may have been genuinely bothered that you dumped date organizing on her. Even you used those words.

 

You've said that she is conservative and traditional. She may not be at a point where she feels it's appropriate for her to plan the dates. She might feel that you should still be doing that. It could have been a great disappointment for her that you couldn't figure out something as simple as a place to go for coffee, regardless of the fact that you don't drink it. I mean, it's coffee! Let me rephrase - not that you couldn't, but that you didn't bother. You just handed it off.

 

She could have come from a prior relationship where everything was on her all the time. It could have triggered something, who knows. It could be highly unattractive to her. Any number of things. Maybe it just means you're incompatible. I could certainly see reciprocating planning an easy get-together after you've planned the first two dates, but considering how you've described her, I wonder if that's an issue for her. I've been involved in a relationship where the man put everything on me to plan and it made me feel really devalued (along with some other stuff that was happening).

 

Just some thoughts.

[OatsAndHall]

She may have been genuinely bothered that you dumped date organizing on her. Even you used those words.

 

You've said that she is conservative and traditional. She may not be at a point where she feels it's appropriate for her to plan the dates. She might feel that you should still be doing that. It could have been a great disappointment for her that you couldn't figure out something as simple as a place to go for coffee, regardless of the fact that you don't drink it. I mean, it's coffee! Let me rephrase - not that you couldn't, but that you didn't bother. You just handed it off.

 

She could have come from a prior relationship where everything was on her all the time. It could have triggered something, who knows. It could be highly unattractive to her. Any number of things. Maybe it just means you're incompatible. I could certainly see reciprocating planning an easy get-together after you've planned the first two dates, but considering how you've described her, I wonder if that's an issue for her. I've been involved in a relationship where the man put everything on me to plan and it made me feel really devalued (along with some other stuff that was happening).

 

Just some thoughts.

 

I handed it off to her because she had time commitments today and I didn't. I didn't tell her that I don't drink coffee: I just knew that she did. I didn't want to pick a place that she didn't like.

 

But, I ended up choosing the place and time as was. She called me yesterday afternoon but I missed it. I called her back at about 8pm last night (I was just getting home from a track meet) and hadn't heard from her by 9:30pm. So, I texted her and asked her if she would like to meet at a specific coffee shop this morning. She texted back immediately, gave me a time and said she'd "love to meet up again".

 

We've been out on two dates previous to this and I literally know NONE of the restaurants in the area as I just moved here last fall. I asked her if she had any preferences of restaurants, she said she didn't and I just picked a place and a time for both of them.

 

But, nonetheless, I don't know that I want to keep seeing her if she was that upset by me asking her to choose a coffee place she'd like to go to at a time that was convenient for her seeing as I wasn't busy.

[Dis]

 

Yes, the difference in religious views certainly concerns me. However, I have found that those people that have seriously strong convictions will bring it up early as they don't want to date an agnostic. But, that has always been a line in the sane for me; I will not participate in another person's religion. I don't mind attending social events put on by a church (kind of inevitable when you live in a religious community) but you won't catch me at services or mass.

 

On a final note, I will do have a deal-breaker that might go into place soon (i.e. today..) There is a Baptist church in this area that is very closed off, homophobic and borderline fanatical. I will not continue to date her if she attends that church.

 

Just keep your eyes open...

 

I was just dating a guy that was Christian (I'm Wiccan) and after only a few dates I could see us starting to clash over certain things. He became pretty judgemental and self-righteous which I have 0 tolerance for. We both agreed it to go our seperate ways

 

IMO, two people who are on opposite sides of the spectrum (religiously speaking) can rarely meet in the middle

 

But I think its really great that you're giving it a chance and keeping an open mind..who knows...maybe it could work out

 

Good luck!

[OatsAndHall]

Just keep your eyes open...

 

I was just dating a guy that was Christian (I'm Wiccan) and after only a few dates I could see us starting to clash over certain things. He became pretty judgemental and self-righteous which I have 0 tolerance for. We both agreed it to go our seperate ways

 

IMO, two people who are on opposite sides of the spectrum (religiously speaking) can rarely meet in the middle

 

But I think its really great that you're giving it a chance and keeping an open mind..who knows...maybe it could work out

 

Good luck!

 

I don't think I'll have to worry about any of that at this point. I thought about it and figured that one bad date out of three isn't a terrible ratio. So, I sent her a text yesterday evening ,thanking her for the date and subtly poking fun at myself and the awkwardness of the end of the date and didn't get a response. I know that she read it and she's been quick to respond to texts in the past.

 

Oh well, I might here from her and I might not. We will be at the same community events throughout the spring so things may get a bit awkward.

[smackie9]

Looking for a good place to eat in your area? Google is your friend......be adventurous and pick something out of your comfort zone and see what happens.

[Jason Van Jason]

If your humming and hawing over coffee, there is a problem.. Coffee is meant to be simple, that is why we do it; when it becomes complicated like this, it is best to just walk away.

[OatsAndHall]

Looking for a good place to eat in your area? Google is your friend......be adventurous and pick something out of your comfort zone and see what happens.

 

 

That's what I did on all three dates. I found two decent places for dinner and then came across this coffee shop yesterday. I did avoid the best reviewed restaurant in the area is I have eaten there, the food isn't very good and it's very pricey. But, I would have gladly taken her there if it she said she enjoyed it.

 

The more I think about it, the more I realize that this is quite a bit of awkwardness over something as simple as where to eat/get coffee. She said that the coffee shop I chose yesterday is her favorite in the area so it was a good call on my part. But, I find it a little discouraging that she wouldn't just say that when I asked her about it when setting up the date.

 

And, also realized that she didn't ask me much about myself throughout the last two dates. So, the conversation turned into what felt like an interrogation on my part coupled with me talking about myself too much. We could get a conversation going for awhile and then it would come to a screeching halt.

 

But, it went from her hugging me straight off the bat during our first date to the almost forced side hug yesterday. She's not into me, for whatever reason. So I'll let sleeping dogs lie and move on with this one.

[Gr8fuln2020]

 

And, also realized that she didn't ask me much about myself throughout the last two dates. So, the conversation turned into what felt like an interrogation on my part coupled with me talking about myself too much. We could get a conversation going for awhile and then it would come to a screeching halt.

 

But, it went from her hugging me straight off the bat during our first date to the almost forced side hug yesterday. She's not into me, for whatever reason. So I'll let sleeping dogs lie and move on with this one.

 

When a date doesn't ask questions about YOU, it's a sign, far more often than not, that he/she is not interested. Only once in all of my dates did I meet someone like that. I got a second date, but it turned out that she was one of the most self-absorbed human beings I had ever met (disturbingly revealed during the second date). No third date.