In a relationship with a widow

[owen82]

I have been in a relationship with a woman for 11 months. She is 33, I'm 35. She is a widow, which is a undiscovered territory for me.

 

She was previously married for 9 years. They married at 18 and were high school sweethearts prior to that. Her husband was in the military and deployed 3 times. He was killed in action in 2010 in Afghanistan, at the end of his deployment. They had 2 children together, one of whom never met the father.

 

I absolutely do NOT expect her to erase him from her life. That is the father of her children and I understand that. However, I am having difficulties finding the line and seeing if there are red flags. Sometimes I feel like I am competing with a dead man.

 

-She has a few pictures up of him and the kids in the living room and hallway - it makes me feel like I am in another man's house.

-The kids each have a couple pictures in their rooms (to be expected and encouraged)

-She has a picture of him and her on each of her bedside tables - which is awkward when I'm spending the night. She turns them backwards when I'm there

-She still has her engagement and wedding rings, which she wears on her right ring finger 24/7

-She has voicemail messages from him still saved

-She doesn't have his things in the house anymore, because she moved and some stuff is packed in storage.

-She doesn't really like to talk about him, I think she feels guilty

-She doesn't want me to sleep on "his side" of the bed, she sleeps on that side if I'm there.

 

This relationship is the first she has had since her husband died (she has dated). She has moved very slowly, which was ok. We just started having sex, she felt like it was cheating and cried afterwards but it's getting better.

 

She is trying. A month ago she had boxes and boxes of her late husbands clothing, she donated most of it last week. Last Friday I stayed overnight with her and she left her rings off (during sex) but put them back on in the middle of the night.

 

Are these red flags that I'm missing? Or do I keep giving her time. I have been planning a weekend trip for next month, we'd be together for 1 year at that point. Is it selfish of me to ask the wedding rings don't tag along? Holding her hand, touching her hand during sex, seeing it, it's uncomfortable and somewhat ruins the mood.

Edited January 21, 2017 by owen82

[Simple Logic]

A lot of people would be past grieving after 6 years, but some can't move that quickly. She is not in love with you now and might not fall in love with anyone again. She may feel he is watching over her and the children and may have one sided conversations with him when she is alone. It is all normal.

 

If you are interested in a relationship with her, you are going to have to be extremely patient and modify things slowly. I would talk to her, acknowledge you understand she is still grieving and you know that not something she can change overnight. Address some of the behaviors that you find really objectionable, but your goal is to modify them not end them. Ask she not wear the rings when she is with you, ask if she would prefer sex be limited to your place. Ask the objectional photos be put out of sight when you are at her home.

 

She is dating you because she knows it is time to move on, you are going to have to help her and be prepared for relasp.

[Timshel]

-She has a picture of him and her on each of her bedside tables - which is awkward when I'm spending the night. She turns them backwards when I'm there

 

-She still has her engagement and wedding rings, which she wears on her right ring finger 24/7

 

-She has voicemail messages from him still saved

 

-She doesn't really like to talk about him, I think she feels guilty

 

-She doesn't want me to sleep on "his side" of the bed, she sleeps on that side if I'm there.

 

This relationship is the first she has had since her husband died (she has dated). She has moved very slowly, which was ok. We just started having sex, she felt like it was cheating and cried afterwards but it's getting better.

 

She is trying. A month ago she had boxes and boxes of her late husbands clothing, she donated most of it last week. Last Friday I stayed overnight with her and she left her rings off (during sex) but put them back on in the middle of the night.

 

She is not ready.

[Simple Logic]

duplicate see above

Edited January 21, 2017 by Simple Logic
Duplicate

[impasse]

Does she know about the trip? Have you exchanged I love you's? It doesn't sound like she is ready to be with someone else, she may never be. She could be trying to use you to help her move on.

 

You, as you've figured out, are going to have to go very slowly and realize that in the end it might be a waste of time. She might never be ready. She lost the love of her life in a terrible way.

 

If she is always wearing his rings I don't think it's fair (realistic) to ask her to cold turkey stop. Maybe ask her if she can bring them along but not wear them.

 

Expect this relationship to go much slower than relationships other people your age are having.

 

(The voicemails could be for the kids to hear their dads voice. The pictures could also be for the kids.)

[BaileyB]

I think she is trying...

 

Anyone who experienced grief knows that it is hard to move forward. It's not something that happens quickly, rather it happened in a series of steps. And it certainly doesn't happen with the flick of a switch, just because you want to move forward...

 

OP, I think she is lucky to have found a man as kind and considerate as you have been. Don't give up on her... It's ok to tell her how you feel. Tell her that it's ok to move slowly with the relationship and you will always respect her wishes to remember and include him in her children's lives. But, tell her that the photo on the bed stand bothers you when you stay over. Etc... It will be hard for her, and she may not be ready, but if you approach it with kindness and respect, she will appreciate that.

 

And also, I wonder if she will always want to wear her wedding rings... On her right hand or on a necklace. Some women do this. I wear my mom's wedding ring on my right hand. You could certainly request that she removes them during sex, it's just something to think about...

 

Best wishes to you both.

Edited January 21, 2017 by BaileyB

[Redhead14]

I have been in a relationship with a woman for 11 months. She is 33, I'm 35. She is a widow, which is a undiscovered territory for me.

 

She was previously married for 9 years. They married at 18 and were high school sweethearts prior to that. Her husband was in the military and deployed 3 times. He was killed in action in 2010 in Afghanistan, at the end of his deployment. They had 2 children together, one of whom never met the father.

 

I absolutely do NOT expect her to erase him from her life. That is the father of her children and I understand that. However, I am having difficulties finding the line and seeing if there are red flags. Sometimes I feel like I am competing with a dead man.

 

-She has a few pictures up of him and the kids in the living room and hallway - it makes me feel like I am in another man's house.

-The kids each have a couple pictures in their rooms (to be expected and encouraged)

-She has a picture of him and her on each of her bedside tables - which is awkward when I'm spending the night. She turns them backwards when I'm there

-She still has her engagement and wedding rings, which she wears on her right ring finger 24/7

-She has voicemail messages from him still saved

-She doesn't have his things in the house anymore, because she moved and some stuff is packed in storage.

-She doesn't really like to talk about him, I think she feels guilty

-She doesn't want me to sleep on "his side" of the bed, she sleeps on that side if I'm there.

 

This relationship is the first she has had since her husband died (she has dated). She has moved very slowly, which was ok. We just started having sex, she felt like it was cheating and cried afterwards but it's getting better.

 

She is trying. A month ago she had boxes and boxes of her late husbands clothing, she donated most of it last week. Last Friday I stayed overnight with her and she left her rings off (during sex) but put them back on in the middle of the night.

 

Are these red flags that I'm missing? Or do I keep giving her time. I have been planning a weekend trip for next month, we'd be together for 1 year at that point. Is it selfish of me to ask the wedding rings don't tag along? Holding her hand, touching her hand during sex, seeing it, it's uncomfortable and somewhat ruins the mood.

 

A month ago she had boxes and boxes of her late husbands clothing, she donated most of it last week -- This is a very big step, believe it or not. She is trying and that's a sign of healing.

 

The length of the marriage and the way in which her husband died is constantly being triggered in her mind and heart because that war/conflict is still a very big part of media coverage and discussion. It's a constant reminder for her and her children. She probably is experiencing a form of survivor's guilt as well.

 

I'd also say that she takes commitment very seriously. She is still somewhat committed to her husband.

 

Nevertheless, she has been seeing you for 11 months. She's trying to open her heart to you at least.

 

I can tell you that I buried my fiancé, who passed away three months before our wedding day back in 2013. He was 45 years old. Tragically young and certainly unexpected. And, even though I have been with my current SO for almost 3 years, my fiancé is still very much in my heart to this day. I have plenty of room in my heart for others, my SO, my children, my friends, my family but a big piece of my heart belongs to him and always will. It took me a long time to let go of his things. But, once I started doing that, my healing process was well on its way.

 

I'm sure you have mentioned the rings in the past and if you have, what you can do now is say something like "You know Xname, I love you and I want our weekend together to be all about us and I hope you do too". And, let her decide what she will do about the rings. I think she will understand what you're asking.

 

Telling her to leave the rings would be a bad move. Anything you say or do that implies that you are somehow jealous of her husband, will not go well.

 

You say things are getting better, and even though it's been 11 months with her and it seems slow to you, you need to observe whether things continue to improve, albeit slowly. This will relationship will not develop as "quickly" as most.

 

Go away on this weekend and show her the best time you possibly can.

[kgcolonel]

I have been in a relationship with a woman for 11 months. She is 33, I'm 35. She is a widow, which is a undiscovered territory for me.

 

She was previously married for 9 years. They married at 18 and were high school sweethearts prior to that. Her husband was in the military and deployed 3 times. He was killed in action in 2010 in Afghanistan, at the end of his deployment. They had 2 children together, one of whom never met the father.

 

I absolutely do NOT expect her to erase him from her life. That is the father of her children and I understand that. However, I am having difficulties finding the line and seeing if there are red flags. Sometimes I feel like I am competing with a dead man.

 

-She has a few pictures up of him and the kids in the living room and hallway - it makes me feel like I am in another man's house.

-The kids each have a couple pictures in their rooms (to be expected and encouraged)

-She has a picture of him and her on each of her bedside tables - which is awkward when I'm spending the night. She turns them backwards when I'm there

-She still has her engagement and wedding rings, which she wears on her right ring finger 24/7

-She has voicemail messages from him still saved

-She doesn't have his things in the house anymore, because she moved and some stuff is packed in storage.

-She doesn't really like to talk about him, I think she feels guilty

-She doesn't want me to sleep on "his side" of the bed, she sleeps on that side if I'm there.

 

This relationship is the first she has had since her husband died (she has dated). She has moved very slowly, which was ok. We just started having sex, she felt like it was cheating and cried afterwards but it's getting better.

 

She is trying. A month ago she had boxes and boxes of her late husbands clothing, she donated most of it last week. Last Friday I stayed overnight with her and she left her rings off (during sex) but put them back on in the middle of the night.

 

Are these red flags that I'm missing? Or do I keep giving her time. I have been planning a weekend trip for next month, we'd be together for 1 year at that point. Is it selfish of me to ask the wedding rings don't tag along? Holding her hand, touching her hand during sex, seeing it, it's uncomfortable and somewhat ruins the mood.

 

 

Okay, I can indirectly relate to what you're struggling with here. My step-mother had the same struggles when my father passed. She found a man who understood and "valued" her ex-husband. He shared her sorrow and gave her the liberty to grieve throughout their relationship. I see your GF as someone who loves deeply and eternally. My recommendation is to never ask her to remove something such as rings but to express how you see this as an attribute to her "quality" of love for her SO. Tell her how much you admire that quality and what a great guy he must have been.

 

If you attempt to replace him in trying to remove articles of her past, you'll undermine the relationship. Dating a widow is different from someone else. I can't tell you if you're the right person for this but the rules are different and the triggers are different. Slow, positive and gentle are the keys.

[BaileyB]

I think because she chose to remove the rings during sex, she knows that it may bother you and she is trying to respect your feelings. But, obviously she is not quite ready to leave them off if she put them back on in the middle of the night.

 

I suggest that you really respect the fact that she is trying... She obviously likes you because she is attempting in some ways to let go of her relationship with her husband and move forward with you.

 

Everyone grieves differently, and I think men and women tend to grieve differently. She may need to keep pictures around, wear her rings, talk about him with you or her children... If you can, try to find a way to honor and respect that. He will always have a place in her heart, but she can also love you and build a life with you. It will get better with time.

Edited January 21, 2017 by BaileyB

[startingagain15]

I'm a widow of 4 years. I'd agree with others who say she's not really ready, but is definitely trying. I had always had plans to wait at least 5 years to begin dating again, as i have 4 young children (the youngest was 9 mos. when dh passed).

 

The "skin hunger" that comes on you when you lose your spouse is insane. The need to be touched and snuggled and yes, sex, was too much to bear. I had to start dating 2 years ago, and have found someone who may or may not work out in the future, but for now having him to talk to and be intimate with is so comforting. He has similar issues after a messy relationship life, so we are kind of on the same page of things right now.

 

So maybe that's what she needs right now, but she's definitely not ready to give her heart to you. It's up to you if you can be patient enough to wait. It's not something that you just run into with widows, divorcees can have similar problems I have found.

 

I have a couple pictures out, and the kids have pictures in their rooms. Those will always be there, he was/is my kids dad. I don't talk much about him anymore, but am not afraid to mention him in front of BF, and he has learned to be okay with that.

 

I took my rings off at 1 year out exactly. Occasionally I will wear them on my right hand as well. Just cuz they are pretty and we spent a lot of money on them, no real significance other than that to me anymore.

 

I've gotten rid of the majority of his things, only keeping things the kids may want in the future.

 

And yes, I cried after sex the first time, it did feel like somewhat of a betrayal, but I've gotten past that. Oh and I had to go out and get a whole new bed once BF started sleeping here more often. I couldn't deal with being in the same bed as I was with DH.

 

Everyone grieves differently. She can only go at the pace she feels comfortable with, and it's up to you if you can be patient to wait. It sounds like she will always grieve and love him. My relationship was not so idyllic, so was easier for me to move on from.

 

And yes, gently tell her how these things make you feel. It's okay to talk and compromise on things like the rings and pictures by the bed if she expects to be in an exclusive relationship with you.

Edited January 21, 2017 by startingagain15

[owen82]

Thank you for the replies.

 

Her husband was in the military for 8 years, between training and 3 deployments he was gone for half that time. She said that has made it a lot harder to move on. Him being absent wasn't a change. She lived in fear every day and that fear "came true". When he died there wasn't really anything left to find (of him)... for a long time she told herself they were wrong and he was alive, just missing. Burying an empty casket didn't help the healing process.

 

From what she has told me, they were together all through high school and good childhood friends from preschool on (2-3 years old). They went to the same schools, grew up on the same street. She has a picture of them pretending to get married at 4 years old. Her whole life was spent with him and they grew together rather than apart. Until she started dating (5 years) after he died she had never kissed or touched another man. She hasn't said it to me, but that was the love of her life and I wonder if anyone can be that for her again (whether it's me or someone else).

 

She does take commitment seriously. In her vows she said she would love him and honor him until the day she dies. A friend of her's told me that her husband left a letter for her, in the event that he died, that told her to move on and how much time to grieve then try again so she wouldn't wonder "what he wanted", along with other things written. I don't know what it says, but I imagine it helps her. He also wrote them for the kids so they will have that. And for her "next" husband, which she actually doesn't know. Her sister has it. I don't know whether I will be the one to read that or not (right now we are nowhere near) but I feel bad knowing it exists when she doesn't.

 

I don't expect her to get rid of everything, not at all. With the boxes of clothing, there was over a dozen. She packed it up when she moved but couldn't get rid of it. It was out of sight, it didn't bother me. I do know that it was a big step for her. She donated most of the clothing to various shelters and programs. Some of it she kept, and that's fine. Each of the kids have a pillow made out of one of his favourite shirts. She use to as well but has put it away. I can see the steps that she is taking. I don't want to push her or ever make her feel like I'm pushing her.

 

In theory I feel like I could be ok with her wearing the rings on her right hand. I can understand it. Yet I can't get past it, especially when I touch them. I feel like I'm with another man's wife. Maybe that is my own hang up I need to work on. In her head, taking the rings off to be with me makes her feel like she has to hide me from "him" and therefore it is wrong, and it makes her feel like she is leaving him behind. It sort of flipped and she said she was ok removing them for sex because she felt bad (towards him) for wearing them while she's intimate with another man. She also said she feels bad towards me because she knows it makes me uncomfortable and it's a feeling of being torn (between two men). Previously, during sex she would play with the rings with her right thumb, which made me uncomfortable because I knew she was thinking about him.

 

I would never want to be jealous of him, being jealous of a dead man is illogical. Nor do I want to replace him. There is this thought in the back of my mind that he is a far better man than I could ever be. I work in bank, I'd never be able to go into a war zone and if someone brought a bomb or gun into my work place... I'd be out of there.

 

I do have to be more mindful of things that I say so I don't make her upset. I try to make sure I don't put a TV show or movie on that has anything to do with war or military, or violence in general. She has difficulty with those kinds of reminders, which isn't surprising. She is still involved.

 

She did mention getting a new bed for a "fresh start" but I didn't think much of it and haven't pushed her on that. I, personally, don't care that she use to sleep in that bed with him. It does bother her though and like you (startingagain) maybe it will help her. That is something that is entirely her decision, but I'd be able to understand it.

 

I have said "I love you" to her, however I try not to say it too often because I can tell it makes her uncomfortable. I try and show it rather than say it. Actions speak louder than words, I'd rather show her that I love her rather than making her uncomfortable.

[BaileyB]

Owen, you are a wonderful man. You are very kind, thoughtful, and compassionate. It is clear that this woman is blessed to have you in her life.

 

Don't ever think that her first husband was a better man than you because it is simply not true.

 

Give it time.

 

It was a blessing that this woman shared a great love with her first husband. Not everyone is so lucky in this life. Unfortunately, her love story had a tragic ending. It doesn't take away from the love they shared and the memories they built together...

 

She is a strong woman to even begin the process of moving past her loss. Never forget that. She is trying, taking steps to move beyond her previous life with her husband and she has chosen you as the person she wants to do that with... That says a lot.

 

Be kind and patient with this woman and her children. You are doing all the right things! It sounds like she is moving through her grief in a very healthy way... Believe me when I say that it just takes time... Time to let go and time to create another vision, of a different life with another man.

 

Best wishes to you. Your story has really touched me - her story of love and loss and your obvious love and concern as you move forward to build a new life together.

Edited January 21, 2017 by BaileyB