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You believe in devotion or boundaries?


Gaeta

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My BF believes that in life we should only do what we want to do and shouldn't do anything because we feel pressure from society, family, friends, gf-bf, etc.

 

I believe more in devotion. I will often do things I don't particularly enjoy to make others and my bf happy because their happiness is more important than the discomfort I may experience while doing these things I don't enjoy.

 

He told me I am a very kind and generous woman and combined with my philosophy he can see that's how men took advantage of me in the past. I am afraid he has a good point there.

 

Do I have it all wrong and his way of thinking is more healthy? Maybe he's the one that has learn to build boundaries and I haven't?

 

He tells me at times to only do things I really want to do in our relationship and to never pressure myself to do things I don't want. I hate when he says that but why?

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Honestly, Gaeta, I think you can have boundaries and be devoted. I think "healthy" is when we understand that boundaries are ok, and that devotion to those who deserve it is ok too. There are caveats to both which must be understood. I think it is dangerous to only be entitled and self serving, which is what your bf seems to be promoting. It shows a lack of compassion in a relationship, especially as a man, that can take advantage of the emotional delicacies that men don't really need. I'm pretty sure I'm not explaining this correctly....:laugh:

G

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Your BF is going to have a tough time being married.

There will be many times that you will have to do things with/for your spouse (and children!) that you don't want to do. And you'd better smile doing it.

 

I doubt one would be married for long without this mechanism.

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Honestly, Gaeta, I think you can have boundaries and be devoted. I think "healthy" is when we understand that boundaries are ok, and that devotion to those who deserve it is ok too. There are caveats to both which must be understood. I think it is dangerous to only be entitled and self serving, which is what your bf seems to be promoting. It shows a lack of compassion in a relationship, especially as a man, that can take advantage of the emotional delicacies that men don't really need. I'm pretty sure I'm not explaining this correctly....:laugh:

G

 

Boundaries go beyond being ok, they are necessary to have a healthy relationship of any kind. Individual boundaries allow us to be our own person, personality and independent. For both party's sake, the last thing we want is to be smothering or dysfunctionally 'co-dependent.'

 

Gaeta, your BF has a point, but would like to think that he was not encouraging you to be exclusively selfish. I am confident he wasn't. We do things for those we care for b/c it allows us to express ourselves, our personalities. It's very important. It is also a powerful way to demonstrate our love and care for others. It shows that, despite some discomfort, we care enough to do these things to show we listen, care about the other person. Now, it MUST be emphasized that these things are, themselves healthy and not at the EXPENSE of others including yourself.

Edited by simpleNfit
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One of my self-penned mottos is:

 

 

"Everyone gets all of me."

 

 

I don't believe in holding back; I believe in total extension of the self.

 

But at the same time, I believe in taking responsibility for the self I am extending.

 

That means if I need rest, I rest. If I need to be alone for a while, I take that time alone. If I need to curl up with a book, I curl up with a book.

 

I am person too, so my needs are important, and I make sure they are met.

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He told me I am a very kind and generous woman and combined with my philosophy he can see that's how men took advantage of me in the past. I am afraid he has a good point there.

 

Yup, I forged my boundaries in the fire of marriage. I figure I was more like you for half my life, so the other half I'll be more like your boyfriend. Once I discovered, in general, people don't care whether one lives or dies, no matter how devoted, clarity ensued. I learned much of that from caregiving, heh, while married.

 

I can't advise how to resolve your situation but can empathize with both of your points of view. Perhaps you'll find a middle ground that works for your relationship that respects each persons general world view.

 

However, having seen some marriages up close (the off-camera bickering) where one spouse is the generous one being taken advantage of by others and the other spouse is the more circumspect and cynical and 'what I want to do' one, IDK if I could have a marriage like that long term. YMMV>

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I doubt one would be married for long without this mechanism.

 

He was in 2 relationships of 10 years it's not like he's new at life. I do believe his philosophy of life is a direct result of being too devoted in his past and being taken advantage of but it's my conclusion, not a certainty.

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My last thread was about him having an aversion of birthdays and holidays and not wanting to be part of any of them. After debating it, I had no choice but to let it go, I can't force him in anything. Turned out he surprised me on my birthday with a really nice gift, and he confirmed he will attend my brother's 50th birthday and yes he will be with me at xmas. So he is willing and capable of making compromise and big ones.

 

It's me that has to work on meeting him in the middle. He told me he cannot say no to me ever, not even on little things, because I take it negatively.

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Personally, I think it is unwise and unhealthy to be at either extreme.

 

I don't know that it's possible to live your life, doing only what you want, when you want, all the time. I don't know that other people would really tolerate such selfishness.

 

But, the other end of the spectrum is not healthy either. We all know people who try so hard to please others that they have no personal boundaries... They are unable to out their own self-care first and say "no" even when they should. This is not really not healthy, for either the person or the relationship.

 

I believe, that in life and with relationships, it is about finding the best balance you can... It is about negotiation and compromise.

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Is it possible that is may also be a cultural difference too? His opinion, seems to be what I know to be a fairly stereotypical French/European attitude - different than what may be considered more the norm in North America. I know everyone is different and stereotypes are just that... It's just a curious question...

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Apparently, he responds to perception of overt or covert pressure by pushing back. What I learned from watching a successful marriage was it wasn't so much what but rather how. The devil is in the details. Understanding his perception of communication and events and his understanding of yours. My bet is you've probably experienced these hurdles in the past with marriages or relationships; sometimes the couple gets past them. Sometimes not. Each experience is an opportunity to use lessons from experience to get both parties over the hurdle, generally one of intimacy and trust and respect.

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I don't know that it's possible to live your life, doing only what you want, when you want, all the time. I don't know that other people would really tolerate such selfishness.

 

I know only doing what you want when you want sounds selfish but what he wants mainly is to be with me, to love me, to help me, to support me so what he wants has fulfilled my life with love and support.

 

Maybe that's why I am so frustrated at the tiniest no he gives me. We were making jokes the other day and he said I have him twirled up around my little finger and I get everything I want from him at the push of a button. I said 'no way' !! He was not criticizing me but more like laughing at himself for being a whipped boyfriend. We agreed to disagree on that one.

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Is it possible that is may also be a cultural difference too? His opinion, seems to be what I know to be a fairly stereotypical French/European attitude - different than what may be considered more the norm in North America. I know everyone is different and stereotypes are just that... It's just a curious question...

 

We are of different race and different culture. He is French Creole and I am French Canadian. It's a big melt pot of cultural differences.

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My BF believes that in life we should only do what we want to do and shouldn't do anything because we feel pressure from society, family, friends, gf-bf, etc.

 

 

He tells me at times to only do things I really want to do in our relationship and to never pressure myself to do things I don't want.

 

My last thread was about him having an aversion of birthdays and holidays and not wanting to be part of any of them. After debating it, I had no choice but to let it go, I can't force him in anything. Turned out he surprised me on my birthday with a really nice gift, and he confirmed he will attend my brother's 50th birthday and yes he will be with me at xmas.

 

It's me that has to work on meeting him in the middle. He told me he cannot say no to me ever, not even on little things, because I take it negatively.

 

 

From my end it seems like your be gas-lighted. I could be wrong. But from seeing you posted in other threads you seem to have a strong handle on your opinion and very blunt. However, in your relationship your questioning your self.

 

It's me that has to work on meeting him in the middle.

 

I am afraid he has a good point there.

 

Do I have it all wrong and his way of thinking is more healthy? Maybe he's the one that has learn to build boundaries and I haven't?

 

 

If someone takes advantage of your kindness...shame on them.

Its ok to be kind as long as you know your own boundaries and set them. Its healthy. as long as you have good "Ego-strength"

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I don't believe in doing stuff because of pressure from anyone else. I believe in following my own path. But when it gets complicated is when you decided to partner with someone or have a kid. But at that point, that should be your own choice and not pressure and no "accidents," and if you make that commitment, you better know the person you made it with and know that he/she will not require you to give up your path and your dreams but wants you to be you and isn't just in it to change you. But then kids come along, and brother, you have just lost control of life. So be sure you know what you're getting into and are that you WANT to follow that path and take on those responsibilities and want it bad enough to compromise and do things you'd rather not when necessary, because it will be necessary ALL the time.

 

I don't believe in being true to myself and only taking on people who are assets to me following my life path. I will tell you that people who go out of their way to be devoted for no reason and give and give when the other person isn't reciprocating will mostly end up just used and abused. So I don't believe in blind devotion at all.

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I think the healthy place is to sit somewhere in the middle. Relationships are give and take.

 

Agreed. All relationships are give and take. Which is why I personally find it a little uncomfortable to hear you say that his goal in life is to do things to make you happy and in your words, that you have a difficult time if he tells you no. Don't get me wrong, I would do many things to make my boyfriend happy. I actually think each day, what can I do today to make his life just a little bit better/easier. And, I would hope he does the same. But to be honest, what you have described sounds just a little one sided and I wonder if you may need to do a little more to meet in the middle.

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Agreed. All relationships are give and take. Which is why I personally find it a little uncomfortable to hear you say that his goal in life is to do things to make you happy and in your words, that you have a difficult time if he tells you no. Don't get me wrong, I would do many things to make my boyfriend happy. I actually think each day, what can I do today to make his life just a little bit better/easier. And, I would hope he does the same. But to be honest, what you have described sounds just a little one sided and I wonder if you may need to do a little more to meet in the middle.

 

I am doing a lot of introspection on this and thinking it may be me that doesn't compromise.

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That's good. You are asking difficult questions and trying to find the right balance for you, and your relationship.

 

My boyfriend jokes about his first marriage - that she wanted something, but he wanted something else... so they agreed to compromise and they did what she wanted. I just can't help but think that a relationship that is very one sided, can't help but build resentment after a while.

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I think it's selfish to focus yourself and your own pleasures while in a relationship. When you love each other, it's all about making each other happy, and devotion is a part of that, along with support. How else do we provide security for each other, and the relationship itself if each person is out for themselves.

 

Respect is the key in a relationship... and when you respect each other, you will respect each others wants, desires, and needs both big and small.

 

It appears that your boyfriend isn't aware that boundaries and devotion, while two very different things, are pretty compatible. One is a life skill, the other is a natural part of being in love.

Edited by morrowrd
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My BF believes that in life we should only do what we want to do and shouldn't do anything because we feel pressure from society, family, friends, gf-bf, etc.

 

I believe more in devotion. I will often do things I don't particularly enjoy to make others and my bf happy because their happiness is more important than the discomfort I may experience while doing these things I don't enjoy.

 

He told me I am a very kind and generous woman and combined with my philosophy he can see that's how men took advantage of me in the past. I am afraid he has a good point there.

 

Do I have it all wrong and his way of thinking is more healthy? Maybe he's the one that has learn to build boundaries and I haven't?

 

He tells me at times to only do things I really want to do in our relationship and to never pressure myself to do things I don't want. I hate when he says that but why?

 

I think he is bringing this up as he doesn't like to be controlled, and told what to do, so it is a bit of a warning to you maybe.

Also some women do tend to go into a self-sacrificing "pleasing" mode for their man and it is only during the break up that she brings up the fact she always hated doing some of the stuff they did together. He finds out she only did it for him, and whist he thought she was perfectly happy, she was in fact miserable and ultimately resentful.

He wants you to tell him you hate pizza, not just order it, eat it and smile sweetly just because you know he loves pizza.

He may be worried that you will just "up and leave" him due to unhappiness he was not aware of.

 

Of course, all this talk of doing what you both want to do, when you want to do it, may be setting you up for a load of stuff HE wants to do alone or to make you aware that he is not going to be so "compliant" going forward.

He may be trying to justify that in advance, by telling you that you have free rein to do whatever you want to do.

 

Another thought. Your family are very important to you and you no doubt end up doing things and going places that may not be what YOU particularly want to do or not where YOU particularly want to go, but you do it for your family.

He may not like that actually, some men don't, so by showing you that you do not NEED to pander to your family all the time, and you do not NEED to bow down to family pressure to participate in family activities, then that will also free him from the obligation to attend your various family events... and I know this time he has decided to attend upcoming family events, but he may just be sowing some seeds...

Be aware.

Isolating women from their families can be done very subtlety indeed.

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I think it's possible to do both - want to make your partner happy but also have boundaries that you will stand up for. Also, the former needs to be reciprocal.

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It appears that your boyfriend isn't aware that boundaries and devotion, while two very different things, are pretty compatible. One is a life skill, the other is a natural part of being in love.

 

I think it is possible to have both to - they are not mutually exclusive at all. In fact, I think the best relationship have both, and it's the give and take between partners that makes the relationship strong and loving.

 

This is the best thought from this discussion. Establishing and protecting boundaries is definitely a life skill that we all should have, as an act of self care. Acting in a loving and devoted way toward your partner is a natural expression of a loving relationship. Well said.

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That's good news he compromised on the birthdays and holidays- those are important to you! What are the small things that he says no to? Why do you get bothered about small things- maybe they aren't so small after all?

 

I agree that it's healthiest to live in between those two extremes- having boundaries and being unconditionally devoted. Though being married requires more devotion than not. It really depends on the circumstance, but generally you shouldn't feel like yourself, your values, your needs are being compromised for the sake of another. Or at least the times you do compromise yourself or your own needs are few and far between. And you feel like what you give is reciprocated. I think that's along the lines of a recipe for a healthy relationship.

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