Dating as a divorced virgin (yes, you read that right)

[ezhikvtumane]

I am a 30 year old man who has been married for almost four years. In that time my wife and I have not had (or even attempted) penetrative sex It just seemed (for both of us) too messy, risky and not worth the hassle of dealing with things like birth control. We were very physically affectionate and had plenty of parasexual activity, which suited us both well (at least I thought so). To be honest, I never thought of this as strange until we began to discuss the possibility of having children (which I wanted, and she did not).

 

A few months ago, my wife asked me for a divorce for reasons nominally unrelated to our nonexistent sex life--she claims the main reason is that we have no common interests anymore and nothing interesting to talk about.

 

We are both postdoctoral fellows in mathematics (we met as Ph.D students), but have come to specialize in different subfields, making it impossible for us to talk about our research, and my wife says she wants to be in an intimate relationship with someone she can talk about her research with (work is basically her entire life...)

 

So we are separated and will be divorced soon.

 

Now, I would like more than anything to find someone to join in an intimate monogomous relationship involving children (the sex would be nice too, but as I said PIV sex is not a big priority for me and the para-sexual activity suited me fine).

 

The problem is, I feel my bizzare by society's standards life experience has left me woefully unprepared to enter the process.

 

A superficial problem is this:

 

How do I disclose to potential partners that I am a virgin despite having been married for four years.

 

A deeper problem, is that although I've never been diagnosed I am pretty sure I have Asperger's or some related developmental disorder.

 

In a crowd I appear quite social, and have no problems holding up conversations about weather/sports/history/philosophy/politics etc (all of which I am quite knowledgeable about).

 

On the other hand, I have a lot of trouble reading emotional ques and get very awkward in personal situations, until I know a person very well.

 

The advice I have always been given is to go on dates with the goal of "sparking a connection" (or some related metaphor). I have no idea what "sparking a connection" actually means. I am attracted to most women physically and have a lot of trouble understanding what emotional attraction entails.

 

My wife and I were essentially set up by a mutual friend in grad school who noticed we had a lot in common (very socially awkward vegetarian mathematicians leading a largely ascetic lifestyle born in the same town in Eastern Europe). I wouldn't say I liked her much at first, but over the years gradually fell in love with (became attached to?) her to the point that when she asked for a divorce I fell into a deep depression and was emotionally paralyzed for months. Mathematical research is a creative profession (similar to art actually) so among other things I was essentially unable to work for over two months.

 

These days I really wish I came from a culture where arranged marriage was an option despite being ideologically opposed to most things these cultures stand for.

 

(I am a completely irreligious politically liberal person born in Ukraine, who has lived in the USA since age 10).

 

The main things I really want from a relationship is running a household, having a family, the security of not going through life alone, physical affection, and having someone near me to talk to, which are exactly the things an arranged marriage is meant to provide.

 

I am reasonably professionally succesful (postdoc researcher at Ivy League school with a Ph.D in math) and in pretty good physical shape--my main hobbies are hiking and running, and I am a 2:51 marathoner.

I have also been told I am attractive and interesting to talk to.

 

Unfortunately, with these traits I feel my value in the arranged marriage market, where expectations are spelled out in advance, would be much higher than in the dating market where a certain type of social acumen that I don't have is at a premium.

 

In short, I am lost confused about life and looking for any advice...

[Alamo657]

My advice when you're socially awkward is to date a foreigner from a less developped country, this way you bypass all the social norms the society you grew up in imposed on you.

[TaraMaiden2]

OP, first of all, if you can, see a psychologist to verify whether this social disorder you believe you have, is actually something concrete.

While I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever about your intellectual intelligence, I think self-diagnosis for anyone is basing your credence on shifting sands...

 

Please don't think I am being insulting, but it also sounds as if socially, you are inept, in the sense that it's never been a strong point for you. You perhaps feel hampered, or even psychologically handicapped.

 

I suggest you see a psychologist to discuss possible ways to overcome this difficulty.

I see absolutely no reason why you should not eventually meet the woman who would be best suited to you.

But I think there are several hurdles to overcome yet, including this (as I read it) 'resistance' to the sheer delight, enjoyment and enthusiasm for penetrative sex. Which will, in any case, obviously be essential. should you wish to have a child of your own.

That, in itself, is a bit of an anathema to me.

But perhaps I'm seeing things that aren't there...

 

I apologise if anything I have said has offended you.

That of course, was never my intention.

[Poutrew]

Well, most people can relate to a visual example of some sort. Tell them to imagine the character Jim Parsons plays in 'The Big Bang Theory' but with the main difference being that you are into Maths and not Physics. Then take the conversation from there...

[TaraMaiden2]

I haven't watched a single episode of that. Never seen it....

[smackie9]

There's going to be other nerdy, scientists out there in the dating world. Hire a dating coach/dating service, they will give you guidance, and set you up with dates. I think this will make it easier for you.

 

As for your past situation, you don't have to bring up specific details. Keep the conversation focused on them, career, etc.

[smackie9]

I haven't watched a single episode of that. Never seen it....

You are missing out! You will understand what soft kitty is all about lol.

[risjurad]

Hmm, sounds like what the general consensus is saying... don't volunteer this information. IDK if your next mate will figure this out on her own, but this still seems to be the way to go about it.

[Buddhist]

Sheldon, is that you?

[LookAtThisPOst]

she wants to be in an intimate relationship with someone she can talk about her research with

 

I think anyone who is anyone would rather sit and watch paint dry. Even people who are into their work, aren't so much into their work outside of work hours.

 

Who goes to a BBQ or Memorial Day picnic and talks about that? Seriously.

 

I am actually finding the OP's story, while quite convincing, to be actually for real.

 

I looked up "parasexual", because I've never even heard of the word. I was assuming, "Ah, they did everything BUT..." (erotic massage, using hands on each other, etc., oral, etc.)

 

Then when I looked it, it was entailing the methods by which single-celled organisms reproduced or under the Urban dictionary, an attraction towards the paranormal...aka ghosts.

Edited April 25, 2016 by LookAtThisPOst

[pteromom]

The advice I have always been given is to go on dates with the goal of "sparking a connection" (or some related metaphor). I have no idea what "sparking a connection" actually means. I am attracted to most women physically and have a lot of trouble understanding what emotional attraction entails.

 

When you are having a conversation with this person, it becomes less and less awkward. You find yourself very interested in what they are saying, and they seem engaged with what you are saying.

 

With most small talk, you find it very superficial and meaningless, but as you talk more with this person, you are actually going DEEPER - getting clues to who she is, and being able to share some of who you are.

 

You don't feel judged or like you are boring her. And you are definitely not bored. You feel intrigued, and like you want to spend more time with her.

 

And you find her physically intriguing too.

 

That's sparking a connection.

 

---

 

You are a unique type of person. Very intellectual and logic-driven. You might want to try online dating and such, just to increase your odds. But I don't suspect you'll meet your future partner there. You need to go to where your people are - mathematics related conferences and talks. Intellectually-based activities and clubs. Though you may get lucky in a hiking or running club as well. Put yourself in places where you may meet someone.

 

In an online profile, I would be really upfront about what your goals are (a marriage and children) and who you are. The women who write to you will be interested in YOU.

 

I would probably bring up the virginity thing on a 2nd or 3rd date. Before things get sexual but after there is a solid interest in each other. I would just tell the story of your unusual marriage. Don't take the blame and don't blame her - just paint it as unusual. I don't think that would be a dealbreaker for most women (though she may wonder if you have a very low sex drive, which you can prove you don't through your words and actions.)

 

I have a lot of hope for you. You have a lot to offer a woman - you just have to find the right woman.

[No_Go]

Ha, you probably haven't worked in research then... I've been in physics/biology institutes for over a decade and pretty much all that we used to talk on parties etc was work/bosses/coworkers/work

 

Hah, I remember spending Christmas Eve in the lab with a bunch of people:D

 

Regarding the OP's Aspergers - OP, don't self-diagnose. What you describe is not uncommon as well. This sounds like untrained social skills - something that I had to fought in my late 20s... pretty much based on pure luck in changing my social surroundings. Btw the sex is the easiest thing to catch up with, I went from no kiss ever to full program whatever you can imagine in 3 days Socialy, the things took I'd say 3 years to feel comfortable among non-scientists.

 

I think anyone who is anyone would rather sit and watch paint dry. Even people who are into their work, aren't so much into their work outside of work hours.

 

Who goes to a BBQ or Memorial Day picnic and talks about that? Seriously.

 

I am actually finding the OP's story, while quite convincing, to be actually for real.

 

I looked up "parasexual", because I've never even heard of the word. I was assuming, "Ah, they did everything BUT..." (erotic massage, using hands on each other, etc., oral, etc.)

 

Then when I looked it, it was entailing the methods by which single-celled organisms reproduced or under the Urban dictionary, an attraction towards the paranormal...aka ghosts.

[No_Go]

OP one advice from another late bloomer - tell your future GF about your virginity after you lose it There is no point for full disclosure, it will just cause tension and in the end, you KNOW what to do, it is just an instinct (plus every first time with a new partner is awkward, so for her it will be hard just to gauge 'level of awkwardness').

[preraph]

Since you are very specialized sexually and this is a dealbreaker for most, I wouldn't waste time dating general population but would just seek that specific type partner on specialty sexual boards where you put it out right up front.

[No_Go]

I'd agree if he tried it and didn't like it... bt seems like it is more about overcoming a psychological barrier (largely coming from very narrow social circle), which can actually be passed overnight. Then OP will know where he really stands.

 

Since you are very specialized sexually and this is a dealbreaker for most, I wouldn't waste time dating general population but would just seek that specific type partner on specialty sexual boards where you put it out right up front.

[Miss Peach]

OP - How do you feel about having sex? Most women, unless they know are are Ok with it, will think something is wrong if a guy doesn't attempt it at least by a few months into a new relationship.

[LookAtThisPOst]

I still can't see why, after 4 years, he didn't at least pop his cherry for the sake of experience...you know?

 

will think something is wrong if a guy doesn't attempt it at least by a few months into a new relationship.

 

New relationship? This guy got MARRIED to this woman...not even an attempt on their wedding night?

[burnt]

A few months ago, my wife asked me for a divorce for reasons nominally unrelated to our nonexistent sex life--she claims the main reason is that we have no common interests anymore and nothing interesting to talk about.

 

We are both postdoctoral fellows in mathematics (we met as Ph.D students), but have come to specialize in different subfields, making it impossible for us to talk about our research, and my wife says she wants to be in an intimate relationship with someone she can talk about her research with (work is basically her entire life…)

 

So, do you believe that IF you two had specialized in the same sub-field, then your marriage would have lasted? So, look down the road, 5, 10 from now. Would she have felt 'fulfilled' with intellectual conversations ONLY?

 

No woman can survive that--not in the long run. No amount of mathematics or research study can fill that emotional void that builds up over time if she can't feel physically and emotionally connected.

 

Your marriage didn't end because you are mathematically somewhat 'divergent', but it's your physical and emotional needs that are mismatching.

 

Are you asexual? If you are, looking to find a partner who's sexually compatible with you would be something you should look into. There are many support sites for asexual people. May I strongly suggest that at least you visit/read some posts to see if their experiences you can relate to?

 

If you pursue the path of arranged marriage, you may initially feel satisfied, but what about your partner?

Again, do realize, even if the marriage is arranged, your partner being a woman sooner or later will feel unhappy if her physical and emotional needs aren't being met. The marriage will feel like a trap for both parties involved eventually.

 

I'm not saying you're hopeless; you are not having trouble because you are eccentric mathematicians--you are having trouble because you are eccentric in the world of romantic love.

 

You may not like this suggestion--but can you consider speaking to a psychologist to try to understand what it is that you are looking for in a relationship and then seek the most suitable partner once you know yourself a little bit better.

[todreaminblue]

i feel if a woman really loves a man..that she will wait, be understanding and compassionate and that i believe there's someone(and then more than one) for everyone no matter your struggles,inexperience or position in life.....

 

 

you are as anothr poster said unique but....uniques have other uniques to meet....and the poster who stated join common interest clubs is right...go where you feel comfortable.....

as far as penetrative sex goes...i believe every marriage should be consummated by love making.....or its not really a marriage.....but in that...consummation doesn't necessarily always happen honeymoon night.and in my mind penetrative sex may not be possible for some and not integral to what i call consummating a love making union...a quadraplegic for example.....or a person who has issues sexually..but making love has always been more about intimacy and not just sex for me.

 

 

.i know others might not feel the same way...there is a beautiful thing that happens in between a physical and emotional penetration of a man to with the woman he loves....its shame to miss out on.....and was given to us especially and rightly so, only within the bonds of matrimony for a reason...its that closing bond........

 

you have to meet the right woman for you who will understand and support you in every way.....just curious did you ever discuss this situation that arose in your marriage in regards to consummating before you married with your ex.....deb.......

[BlueIris]

I don’t think you should be very worried at all.

 

Once you scratch the surface, pretty much everyone’s bizarre. I don’t think you have to disclose to potential partners that you’re a virgin despite having been married for four years. There are men with some or lots of experience who either get nervous or aren’t very good lovers, so it’s very possible that she won’t be able to tell that you're not experienced in that way - if you do go to bed together one day. Also, women sometimes get nervous or are awkward the first time.

 

I don’t think you should be worried about Asperger's or some developmental disorder either. You’re a good conversationalist, so you’re ahead of many. Be yourself. Be kind to everyone. Be curious and inquisitive. Dress nicely everyday. Enjoy yourself. --- You’ll do well and eventually you’ll find someone that you click with.

 

Speak up when someone piques your interest and don’t be too hesitant. After talking for a while, by which I mean minutes or an hour or so, say that you’d like to go out and ask her to dinner or to an event you’d enjoy. Have some interesting things for dates in mind all the time.

 

You’re in the perfect setting to find women who are so absorbed in what they’re doing that social cuing and hierarchy and stuff isn’t a big deal.

 

Have fun. Be zen about it and enjoy the process.

 

Frankly, you sound terrific.

[ezhikvtumane]

Thanks for all the responses!

I have no objection to sex (although no one has ever offered it to me)--the abstinence was more out of my wife's volition.

She didn't trust me to use condoms correctly and didn't want to use birth control because she was uncomfortable putting chemicals into her body (which made sense to me--we are both vegans who abstain from alcohol/caffeine/most processed foods for philosophical reasons).

So we sort of agreed we would have intercourse only if and when we would want children.

In the meantime, we had plenty of foreplay/masturbation.

I would have been more than willing to have sex if she was interested, but a relationship with her was more important to me than sex (alas, now I have neither).

I felt we had a very strong physical and emotional connection before we drifted apart professionally--

for about a three years period we spent most of our free time in physical contact--spooning, cuddling, talking math and watching cartoons.

At some point in the last two years we started talking about potentially having children, which she interpreted as unwelcome pressure to do something that would distract her from her work, which might have contributed to the demise of our relationship (she is an exceptional mathematician, arguably the best of her generation in the subfield, and much more committed to her research than I am, which I respect but...)

So we will both end up 30 year old divorced virgins, except her life goals are such that changing her condition is much less of a priority for her than it is for me.

(While we were separating she actually conceded to me she might be asexual...)

I'm not sure how being married changes things--we got married two years after moving in together because she needed a green card in order to apply for certain fellowships and got it through marriage to me.

I would definitely not object to having sex with a woman who offered to have sex with me...

Edited April 26, 2016 by ezhikvtumane

[todreaminblue]

Thanks for all the responses!

I have no objection to sex (although no one has ever offered it to me)--the abstinence was more out of my wife's volition.

She didn't trust me to use condoms correctly and didn't want to use birth control because she was uncomfortable putting chemicals into her body (which made sense to me--we are both vegans who abstain from alcohol/caffeine/most processed foods for philosophical reasons).

So we sort of agreed we would have intercourse only if and when we would want children.

In the meantime, we had plenty of foreplay/masturbation.

I would have been more than willing to have sex if she was interested, but a relationship with her was more important to me than sex (alas, now I have neither).

I felt we had a very strong physical and emotional connection before we drifted apart professionally--

for about a three years period we spent most of our free time in physical contact--spooning, cuddling, talking math and watching cartoons.

At some point in the last two years we started talking about potentially having children, which she interpreted as unwelcome pressure to do something that would distract her from her work, which might have contributed to the demise of our relationship (she is an exceptional mathematician, arguably the best of her generation in the subfield, and much more committed to her research than I am, which I respect but...)

So we will both end up 30 year old divorced virgins, except her life goals are such that changing her condition is much less of a priority for her than it is for me.

(While we were separating she actually conceded to me she might be asexual...)

I'm not sure how being married changes things--we got married two years after moving in together because she needed a green card in order to apply for certain fellowships and got it through marriage to me.

I would definitely not object to having sex with a woman who offered to have sex with me...

 

i feel for you...i can sense that you really loved her....

 

s far as your current state of worrying about what to say when you start a relationship...i dont think you should bring up at all at the start of knowing a woman, about your virginity....when the relationship or dating relationship progresses enough that you feel its getting pretty serious then and only then bring up your past relationship, in my opinion its not really important until you really know that woman and you feel for her in a romantic way....i feel you will know when this is.....

 

it is important I believe to disclose this information on your marriage but not right away...a person who has gotten to know you and understands you and has the same feelings for you is more likely to give you the understanding and time it needs for you to explain..without instant dismissal....

 

i also think(as another poster blueiris posted i think) you sound terrific..i will add

 

 

.thoughtful...insightful...honest....forthright and capable of having a really awesome relationship and i dont think at all you wont find someone.....i feel the opposite could very well be the case for you.....good luck and the very best to you...in life...and love....deb

[ezhikvtumane]

I think anyone who is anyone would rather sit and watch paint dry. Even people who are into their work, aren't so much into their work outside of work hours.

 

Who goes to a BBQ or Memorial Day picnic and talks about that? Seriously.

 

I am actually finding the OP's story, while quite convincing, to be actually for real.

 

I looked up "parasexual", because I've never even heard of the word. I was assuming, "Ah, they did everything BUT..." (erotic massage, using hands on each other, etc., oral, etc.)

 

Then when I looked it, it was entailing the methods by which single-celled organisms reproduced or under the Urban dictionary, an attraction towards the paranormal...aka ghosts.

 

Well--pure math is a profession that's difficult to survive in unless one has intense passion for it--its difficult to justify doing something abstract and divorced from the real world that 50 people will ever appreciate (and that's if you're lucky!).

It also has the (dis)advantage of requiring no equipment except a functional brain, allowing one to work in at picnics, at BBQ's, on hikes, in bed...so the concept of "work hours" doesn't really exist.

A classic piece of advice given to grad students is if you're able to stop thinking about research for extended periods of time you're not cut out to be a mathematician and should sell out and move to finance.

I actually am much less into my work than most of my peers (frankly, I don't think I would have become a mathematician if my dad wasn't one), but I am also probably temperamentally unsuited for any other profession so I trudge along...I feel as much of an odd duck in work as I do in my personal life.

At the start of my relationship with my wife we were both struggling to find our mathematical identity, laboring to climb the shoulders of giants, and dealing with anxiety and low self esteem. When we both found ourselves it became clear that our tastes were too different to have a stimulating mathematical relationship. Moreover, as she was becoming more and more excited about her work I was becoming more and more bored and disillusioned with mine--while falling ever deeper in love with her as a woman, a person, and a mathematician.

Frankly, if not for her emotional support I might have quit research after my Ph.D two years ago.

 

Sometimes I wish I had--getting paid to more or less think about whatever you want sounds attractive, but the lack of structure leaves to much room for existential crises. But that's a small price to pay for the right to go to work in the same clothes I run in. It's not like anyone will ever pay me to live in the woods.

Edited April 26, 2016 by ezhikvtumane

[No_Go]

This sooo much reminds me my earlier self.... With the distinction that I was younger (27), not married but infatuated with another scientist and his research, and my research... However, he got tired of it and got someone pregnant. And I left for my dream university to finish my PhD with a summer-long internship... And then I met an uneducated, street-smart, very intense man... The virginity was soon history.

 

...Just one thing to add... My pure desire for basic research soon went to history as well. I did a postdoc in a great university but I was not motivated anymore, too distracted with the external world, sex, money, power... So I switched careers. I'm going to ask myself for the rest of my life - was it worth it...

 

Thanks for all the responses!

I have no objection to sex (although no one has ever offered it to me)--the abstinence was more out of my wife's volition.

She didn't trust me to use condoms correctly and didn't want to use birth control because she was uncomfortable putting chemicals into her body (which made sense to me--we are both vegans who abstain from alcohol/caffeine/most processed foods for philosophical reasons).

So we sort of agreed we would have intercourse only if and when we would want children.

In the meantime, we had plenty of foreplay/masturbation.

I would have been more than willing to have sex if she was interested, but a relationship with her was more important to me than sex (alas, now I have neither).

I felt we had a very strong physical and emotional connection before we drifted apart professionally--

for about a three years period we spent most of our free time in physical contact--spooning, cuddling, talking math and watching cartoons.

At some point in the last two years we started talking about potentially having children, which she interpreted as unwelcome pressure to do something that would distract her from her work, which might have contributed to the demise of our relationship (she is an exceptional mathematician, arguably the best of her generation in the subfield, and much more committed to her research than I am, which I respect but...)

So we will both end up 30 year old divorced virgins, except her life goals are such that changing her condition is much less of a priority for her than it is for me.

(While we were separating she actually conceded to me she might be asexual...)

I'm not sure how being married changes things--we got married two years after moving in together because she needed a green card in order to apply for certain fellowships and got it through marriage to me.

I would definitely not object to having sex with a woman who offered to have sex with me...

[dreamingoftigers]

Well--pure math is a profession that's difficult to survive in unless one has intense passion for it--its difficult to justify doing something abstract and divorced from the real world that 50 people will ever appreciate (and that's if you're lucky!).

It also has the (dis)advantage of requiring no equipment except a functional brain, allowing one to work in at picnics, at BBQ's, on hikes, in bed...so the concept of "work hours" doesn't really exist.

A classic piece of advice given to grad students is if you're able to stop thinking about research for extended periods of time you're not cut out to be a mathematician and should sell out and move to finance.

I actually am much less into my work than most of my peers (frankly, I don't think I would have become a mathematician if my dad wasn't one), but I am also probably temperamentally unsuited for any other profession so I trudge along...

At the start of my relationship with my wife we were both struggling to find our mathematical identity, laboring to climb the shoulders of giants, and dealing with anxiety and low self esteem. When we both found ourselves it became clear that our tastes were too different to have a stimulating mathematical relationship. Moreover, as she was becoming more and more excited about her work I was becoming more and more bored and disillusioned with mine.

Frankly, if not for her emotional support I might have quit research after my Ph.D two years ago.

 

Sometimes I wish I had--getting paid to more or less think about whatever you want sounds attractive, but the lack of structure leaves to much room for existential crises. But that's a small price to pay for the right to go to work in the same clothes I run in.

 

Her reasoning will leave her highly incompatible with many many many people. I suspect she's in for a shock. If her margins are that thin for continuing a marriage, I have no idea how she will make a connection that can withstand the regular outside pressures or health concerns that will eventually befall every marriage. There simply needs to be more to life than her work, of which you would have a much more deep understanding than 99.999% of people. Sometimes people don't realize what they have until it is long gone. Many people get too involved in their careers and then don't build a life outside of them. Often that is to their own detriment.

 

You'll be relatively fine if you are able to make those connections.

 

Are you good at reading social cues despite the Aspberger's?

 

I have long suspected I may have that same issue because of years of missing in-person social cues. I can read whether someone is crazy or trying to leech/use/take advantage of me pretty well. But as for if I am making then uncomfortable, I am not so good at that. I think it's harder for a lot of men in general.

 

I am not sure how many women appreciate more linear thinkers. I do. But I seem to be an outlier. I know there are others but depending on your culture/location they may be socialized to NOT value that. It really varies.

 

I have been very well informed that a good photo on a dating site can make all the difference

 

Where do you plan to try to meet a partner?