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Old 9th April 2016, 1:03 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post
my main point: a second date after a decent first date is not unreasonable.
I've said all this before, you still don't get it. Lots of things aren't unreasonable without context. To the government, raising taxes 1% doesn't sound unreasonable. But if the person paying the taxes is already taxed at 40%, you can sure as hell bet they're not going to be happy with it. The point being, if you don't like the premise to begin with (be it taxes, or a person in particular) you have no incentive to subject yourself to more of it, because there's no benefit to you, only the other person.

When you go out with someone the first time, you're going because you think you might like them. But once you go out and realize you don't like them, there's no longer anything to gain by seeing them again, in fact the experience would leave you worse off -- it would waste your time and money. That's what you can't seem to understand, you only look at things from one person's perspective without considering the other one's. For the most part, people know what they like and what they don't like. Thinking you know better than they do is misguided, arrogant, and ridiculous.

Let's say you didn't know anything about Harry Potter but your friend was a big fan and convinced you to go the first movie. They loved it and you hated it. You didn't understand any of it, you couldn't relate to any of it, for whatever reason, you just couldn't sit through it. Fine. You went with the expectation that you might enjoy yourself, but you really didn't. So what? It happens. Now let's say when the second Harry Potter movie comes out, your friend asks you to go again. Why on Earth would you agree to when you know this movie has absolutely no appeal to you? Your friend says "it's not unreasonable to give it a second chance."
You're friend is right -- it isn't, objectively, unreasonable.

But that argument is still not compelling enough to make you want to do it. You have nothing to gain by sitting there on the grounds that it isn't unreasonable, but you still probably don't enjoy yourself, you still lose 2 hours of your time, and you still lose $15. So why do it? Because "being unreasonable" or not generous enough with your time and money is some crime? Why does your friend get to decide what you have to do with your time and money? It doesn't make any sense from your perspective.

It's not objectively unreasonable. But it is subjectively unreasonable if the person doesn't want to do it to begin with, there's no point.


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Originally Posted by Emilia View Post
I don't think the article is right at all. It's common for women in their 30s to start dating down in terms of looks if they want to get married. Might not be a thing for casuals but for LTRs in 30+ adults mixed looks is very common. I see this in people more that use OLD because they don't have the social circle and the opportunities - if they don't want to date someone new every week.
I just skimmed the article again but I didn't see anything about age ranges. My guess is that more people are married by their 30s so the prevalence of those people in the data pool is significantly smaller.

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Originally Posted by Emilia View Post
I'm actually surprised you are such an advocate for OLD, I get the impression you are social enough not to need it. It's hard to find quality online.
I don't see why everyone doesn't use OLD. It's as efficient as any other method of meeting people and it's totally supplementary and working for you 24/7. It's an additional source, there's no reason not to use it. I am pretty social, but I work from home and most of my friends are getting married, moving out of the city, and/or not interested in going out much anymore. I'm not really ready to slow down -- I hate the thought of spending a weekend watching TV rather doing something fun or interesting myself.

Also, I'm very picky. I know myself. Going back to the point of this whole thread, I'm not going to happy with just anyone, in fact, I'd probably be miserable with the wrong person. For me, it's worth holding out for someone great rather than someone to just fill a void. In my experience it isn't too hard to find quality on OLD, at least in New York, you just have to filter a lot. Everyone uses it. Doctors, lawyers, successful actors, etc. A lot of successful, attractive people without much time.
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Old 9th April 2016, 1:30 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by BlueIris View Post

OP, Some people are just good dates no matter who they’re with. They’re nice, happy, friendly and inquisitive with everyone. They make other people feel good. Read Emily Post, Miss Manners or Dale Carnegie.
In eight years of OLD, I went on plenty of 'decent' dates. On many of them, I was dying for it to end so I could go home to my dogs. I remained polite and chatty, right up till 'good bye'. Never once did I bolt, cut it short, or sneak out a bathroom window, altho it was done to me.

It doesn't take but fifteen minutes to know when something is 'off'.
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Old 9th April 2016, 11:51 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post
This goes back to my main point: a second date after a decent first date is not unreasonable.
Well at last I agree with you on something! A second date after a decent first date is NOT unreasonable!

It's also not unreasonable for one or both of the people to decide that it's not worthwhile, no matter how decent it was.

I am still curious about what happened with your "Girl A" from this thread:

Time to change things up with Tinder girl?

She was decent enough to have sex with, but not decent enough to "give a fair trial" to? Or was she the one to decide not to see you anymore after having sex with you?

I'm honestly interested in learning how your paradigm here relates to your situation with that girl. Please elucidate.
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Old 10th April 2016, 12:10 AM   #79
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A few thoughts on this oberkeat:

1. oberkeat, how do you know the woman truly "had fun" on your "decent" first dates? This is probably the biggest part of what you are missing. You take what people say too literally. Maybe she didn't truly "enjoy herself" enough to see you again and was just saying that to let you down easy. If you've ever gone on a first date where YOU weren't feeling it--but wanted to be a good sport about it anyway--you'd get this point.

2. Women don't want a hot guy so much as they want a guy whom they feel chemistry with.

3. The whiney strident tone of your posts is quite off-putting. As much as you may not agree w someone else's dating style it's not your place to try to fix it. Move on to the next girl instead.

4. TooLegit (cool username btw!) gave a good suggestion to add something to your profile about how you believe in giving people a chance instead of going by instant chemistry. Have you tried putting that suggestion? You may attract more likeminded women.
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Last edited by Imajerk17; 10th April 2016 at 12:29 AM..
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Old 10th April 2016, 3:55 AM   #80
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I don't see why everyone doesn't use OLD. It's as efficient as any other method of meeting people and it's totally supplementary and working for you 24/7. It's an additional source, there's no reason not to use it. I am pretty social, but I work from home and most of my friends are getting married, moving out of the city, and/or not interested in going out much anymore. I'm not really ready to slow down -- I hate the thought of spending a weekend watching TV rather doing something fun or interesting myself.

Also, I'm very picky. I know myself. Going back to the point of this whole thread, I'm not going to happy with just anyone, in fact, I'd probably be miserable with the wrong person. For me, it's worth holding out for someone great rather than someone to just fill a void. In my experience it isn't too hard to find quality on OLD, at least in New York, you just have to filter a lot. Everyone uses it. Doctors, lawyers, successful actors, etc. A lot of successful, attractive people without much time.
Successful doesn't mean they aren't complete shlts, you don't know them.

I like people that make the effort to go out and socialise. To build/enlarge a social circle. Who have real hobbies and interests and able to make connections through those. Who walk up to someone for a chat to get to know the person.

I think it's far more rewarding to get to know a person in their natural environment. I occasionally dabble in OLD but I see it as people trying to make shortcuts rather than build a proper well rounded life.

I'd love to see a study how long OLD relationships last vs those where people met on the offchance and got to know each other bit by bit.
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Old 10th April 2016, 4:35 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Imajerk17 View Post
A few thoughts on this oberkeat:

1. oberkeat, how do you know the woman truly "had fun" on your "decent" first dates? This is probably the biggest part of what you are missing. You take what people say too literally. Maybe she didn't truly "enjoy herself" enough to see you again and was just saying that to let you down easy. If you've ever gone on a first date where YOU weren't feeling it--but wanted to be a good sport about it anyway--you'd get this point.
Her behavior suggested that this was more than being a good sport. There were several points during that date where she could have ended things, but she kept suggesting more things to do. This was an activity date. We had a lot more fun on that date than we would have had sitting awkwardly across a table having drinks, and there's plenty of reasons to believe she enjoyed herself. To me that's grounds for giving things another go.

I don't think the next guy she dates will take her to the museum for the first date. He'll probably just try to meet for drinks and spend the whole night grilling her with interview questions. Then she'll remember what a good time she had with oberkeat and wish she hadn't nexted him so fast.

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Originally Posted by Imajerk17 View Post
2. Women don't want a hot guy so much as they want a guy whom they feel chemistry with.
I agree which is a good argument for allowing things to develop instead of nexting guys after only the first date. You seem to believe that if you don't feel amazing chemistry on the first date you never will. But I think that if your next guys after the first date because you didn't feel amazing chemistry, you are missing out on a lot of great people and potentially great relationships.

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Originally Posted by Imajerk17 View Post
3. The whiney strident tone of your posts is quite off-putting. As much as you may not agree w someone else's dating style it's not your place to try to fix it. Move on to the next girl instead.
What makes you think that the next girl will not be just as superficial as the last? The instant spark requirement has become an epidemic among young women these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imajerk17 View Post
4. TooLegit (cool username btw!) gave a good suggestion to add something to your profile about how you believe in giving people a chance instead of going by instant chemistry. Have you tried putting that suggestion? You may attract more likeminded women.
The whole online dating pool is poisoned with GIGS and the instant spark requirement so many young women have. I hated online dating. I would never go back to it.

Last edited by oberkeat; 10th April 2016 at 4:38 PM..
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Old 10th April 2016, 4:44 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Rejected Rosebud View Post
Well at last I agree with you on something! A second date after a decent first date is NOT unreasonable!

It's also not unreasonable for one or both of the people to decide that it's not worthwhile, no matter how decent it was.

I am still curious about what happened with your "Girl A" from this thread:

Time to change things up with Tinder girl?

She was decent enough to have sex with, but not decent enough to "give a fair trial" to? Or was she the one to decide not to see you anymore after having sex with you?

I'm honestly interested in learning how your paradigm here relates to your situation with that girl. Please elucidate.
I'll answer that. Girl A was more than a one night stand. We dated for a while after that till she decided to get with some other guy. The point is, we got together more than once. She didn't call it quits after a two hour first date, which is a helluva lot more than we can say for a lot of women in the dating game.
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Old 10th April 2016, 4:52 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by normal person View Post
I've said all this before, you still don't get it. Lots of things aren't unreasonable without context. To the government, raising taxes 1% doesn't sound unreasonable. But if the person paying the taxes is already taxed at 40%, you can sure as hell bet they're not going to be happy with it. The point being, if you don't like the premise to begin with (be it taxes, or a person in particular) you have no incentive to subject yourself to more of it, because there's no benefit to you, only the other person.

When you go out with someone the first time, you're going because you think you might like them. But once you go out and realize you don't like them, there's no longer anything to gain by seeing them again, in fact the experience would leave you worse off -- it would waste your time and money. That's what you can't seem to understand, you only look at things from one person's perspective without considering the other one's. For the most part, people know what they like and what they don't like. Thinking you know better than they do is misguided, arrogant, and ridiculous.

Let's say you didn't know anything about Harry Potter but your friend was a big fan and convinced you to go the first movie. They loved it and you hated it. You didn't understand any of it, you couldn't relate to any of it, for whatever reason, you just couldn't sit through it. Fine. You went with the expectation that you might enjoy yourself, but you really didn't. So what? It happens. Now let's say when the second Harry Potter movie comes out, your friend asks you to go again. Why on Earth would you agree to when you know this movie has absolutely no appeal to you? Your friend says "it's not unreasonable to give it a second chance."
You're friend is right -- it isn't, objectively, unreasonable.

But that argument is still not compelling enough to make you want to do it. You have nothing to gain by sitting there on the grounds that it isn't unreasonable, but you still probably don't enjoy yourself, you still lose 2 hours of your time, and you still lose $15. So why do it? Because "being unreasonable" or not generous enough with your time and money is some crime? Why does your friend get to decide what you have to do with your time and money? It doesn't make any sense from your perspective.

It's not objectively unreasonable. But it is subjectively unreasonable if the person doesn't want to do it to begin with, there's no point.
Your worldview is way too black-and-white. You seem to think that if you don't feel amazing chemistry on the first date then you never will, so on to the next one. You don't seem to believe that chemistry can develop. You're way too picky, or you're looking for instant gratification. With that standard, I think you and a lot of folks will be on that dating site for a very long time. As I said, if you are nexting everyone after the first date because you didn't feel amazing chemistry, you are missing out on a lot of great people and potentially great relationships. Unless folks were miserable, a second date after a decent first date is not unreasonable.

Last edited by oberkeat; 10th April 2016 at 5:11 PM..
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Old 10th April 2016, 5:25 PM   #84
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You are overthinking this massively.

You are not entitled to a 2nd date whatever you may think.

You just didn`t do it for her.

Sure you will meet someone you do, do it for and `wallop` 2nd date.

That is, if she does it for you......

Good luck.
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Old 10th April 2016, 5:37 PM   #85
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You are overthinking this massively.

You are not entitled to a 2nd date whatever you may think.

You just didn`t do it for her.

Sure you will meet someone you do, do it for and `wallop` 2nd date.

That is, if she does it for you......

Good luck.
Why do people keep saying this is about being "owed" or "entitled"??? Where did I ever say being owed anything? that's not what this is about. This is about rational versus irrational dating behavior. If you're nexting people just because you didn't feel amazing chemistry after one date, you're being unrealistic and you're missing out on a lot of great people and potentially great relationships. No one seems to be conceding that point at all.
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Old 10th April 2016, 5:39 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post
Your worldview is way too black-and-white. You seem to think that if you don't feel amazing chemistry on the first date then you never will, so on to the next one. You don't seem to believe that chemistry can develop.
It's very far from black and white. If I'm interested enough in a person to see them again, I do. That includes instances where I wasn't completely sold on someone but I could tell there was more to be seen. But it definitely excludes instances where I knew I had seen enough. Assuming everyone deserves to be seen again is much more black and white than that.

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Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post
You're way too picky, or you're looking for instant gratification. With that standard, I think you and a lot of folks will be on that dating site for a very long time.
I'd much rather be picky and single than pick the wrong person.

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Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post
As I said, if you are nexting everyone after the first date because you didn't feel amazing chemistry, you are missing out on a lot of great people and potentially great relationships. Unless folks were miserable, a second date after a decent first date is not unreasonable.
Everyone's definition of "great" is different. What's "great" for you isn't necessarily so for me.

I'll decide what's best for myself and I imagine others will continue to do so too, thanks.
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Old 10th April 2016, 5:56 PM   #87
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Why do people keep saying this is about being "owed" or "entitled"??? Where did I ever say being owed anything? that's not what this is about. This is about rational versus irrational dating behavior. If you're nexting people just because you didn't feel amazing chemistry after one date, you're being unrealistic and you're missing out on a lot of great people and potentially great relationships. No one seems to be conceding that point at all.
Ah, the the rational/irrational argument- an indicator that you're dealing with someone who is being very emotional.

You can call it rational all you want, but your opinions of what women ought to do aren't logical or rational. That may be why people say it sounds as though you feel entitled- because that appears to be the only justification for your illogical emotional blindspots and arguments.
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Old 10th April 2016, 6:01 PM   #88
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Sociable people can have enjoyable times with many different types of folk, it doesn't mean they want to date them.
In order to be considered dating material, there has to be some sense that if they kissed you, you would like that and if that led on to more, you would not be averse to that either.
Otherwise there is no point.
If women do not want a second date, it is impossible to force attraction.
Most, if attracted cannot wait to go on second dates, so am not sure what the advantage is of wanting women to be dragged kicking and screaming to a repeat of what they had already experienced and what they weren't that impressed with anyway.
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Old 10th April 2016, 6:27 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post
Why do people keep saying this is about being "owed" or "entitled"??? Where did I ever say being owed anything? that's not what this is about. This is about rational versus irrational dating behavior. If you're nexting people just because you didn't feel amazing chemistry after one date, you're being unrealistic and you're missing out on a lot of great people and potentially great relationships. No one seems to be conceding that point at all.
She didn`t fancy you. It`s pretty simple. not much to concede.

I have never online dated but i have dated in the pub etc... I knew within 20 seconds, she was not for me, etc.. (Vice Versa)

Yes, we may have had a great laugh and had a load in common but there was one tiny thing missing.....

The, `I fancy you moment`
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Old 10th April 2016, 7:02 PM   #90
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She didn`t fancy you. It`s pretty simple. not much to concede.

I have never online dated but i have dated in the pub etc... I knew within 20 seconds, she was not for me, etc.. (Vice Versa)

Yes, we may have had a great laugh and had a load in common but there was one tiny thing missing.....

The, `I fancy you moment`
My experience as well.
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