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Dating Dating, courting, or going steady? Things not working out the way you had hoped? Stand up on your soap box and let us know what's going on!

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Old 6th April 2016, 11:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by normal person View Post
Everyone wants what's best for themselves and they don't want to settle. So as I explained, like Darwinism, it benefits the people with the most desirable traits; the ones that are most likely to be selected. Natural selection. If you naturally have them or worked hard to acquire them, you get selected. If you don't naturally have them and/or haven't worked hard to acquire any, you won't get selected and might start complaining about how no one gives you a chance that life isn't fair. Like you have here.

Evolution benefits the more desirable, "better" traits. As I've said, the solution is very apparent. If you want better success, be a better person. Success, power, strength, health, beauty, and other resources are "better" and more attractive than the lack of those things. And the more you have, the better. If you want to be more successful, get more of those things. You have to adjust yourself to the environment. The environment won't adjust to you no matter how hard you complain about it.
You have an ideological rigid philosophy about how Darwinism applies to dating. It doesn't in any way. If "success, power, strength, health, beauty, and other resources" were the deciding factors in dating, all married or coupled people would be successful, powerful, strong, healthy and beautiful. But they are not. Evolutionary arguments do not apply.
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Old 6th April 2016, 11:36 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by joseb View Post
You are going on about this escalating singles rate and declining marriage and birth rate as if it is some terrible disease that must be wiped out.
Not at all. I just think it's ironic that all these dating apps, communication technology, etc. was supposedly created and marketed to us to improve our access to and ability to find relationships, while the reality is it's doing the exact opposite according to all the trends I've been quoting here, and that many people do not even realize it.
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Old 6th April 2016, 11:45 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post
You have an ideological rigid philosophy about how Darwinism applies to dating. It doesn't in any way. If "success, power, strength, health, beauty, and other resources" were the deciding factors in dating, all married or coupled people would be successful, powerful, strong, healthy and beautiful. But they are not. Evolutionary arguments do not apply.
Your conclusion here is flawed. These traits would be the final deciding factors all other things being equal, but they never are. It in no way negates the role of evolutionary factors in mate selection.
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Old 6th April 2016, 11:52 AM   #19
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People are much more accessible now, more than any other time in history.

The sad sad truth is that we can see people at our fingertips even if they live a thousand miles away. It's all so impersonal now.

We don't want to deal with the troublesome relationship so we escape into cyberspace. Dealing with real life issues is becoming a thing of the past. Now we have become so intertwined with the lack of digital communication in relationships as opposed to in person communication. Why didn't she text me? Why won't he add me on Facebook? etcetera and so forth.

Why would we want to deal with these problems when we can click and tap our way to a new relationship?

And the cycle continues... smh.
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Old 6th April 2016, 12:16 PM   #20
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At a certain point in the 20th century, the declining birth and marriage rate and the escalating singles rate stop being a product of gender equality and start becoming a symptom of our dysfunctional ideas regarding dating and relationships. Are you saying these converging trends are just coincidence? No way.
Considering it "dysfunctional" is subjective. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work. It works for successful people, it doesn't work for unsuccessful people. If you're successful, it's functional.

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5 percent is far less than the 22 percent you quoted for us earlier. You might split hairs over how many people that actually is, but the fact is online dating did not get the job done for the vast majority of coupled people out there. If an auto repair shop quoted a 5% success rate, they would not be in business very long.
Finding the perfect person is hard to begin with. People get married to the wrong person and realize they weren't selective enough in marrying that person and then opt to divorce. Hence why the divorce rate has pretty much kept pace with the marriage rate long before the current dating conditions.

See my batting average analogy in a previous post. An auto repair shop is expected to succeed at a high rate. Dating, while it's as efficient as it's ever been, still can't produce a 100% success rate under any format, and has never been able to. Meeting the right person still might take thousands of dollars and many years. Fixing a car can be done be done much cheaper, much quicker, and you wouldn't expect them to not have the right part because they just can't find it anywhere. If you need a new carburetor, they have it there to install. If you need a girl with a particular sensibility and look, you can't just "buy" her, not in the way we're talking about, anyways. Finding her is not akin to auto repair.

It's like expecting a hitter to hit a home run every time. It's not plausible given the circumstances of the environment. For an auto mechanic, a 100% success rate is very plausible.

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Your argument wasn't that like attracts like. Your argument was that wealth, beauty, power and the fight for survival has everything to do with relationship formation, which no one dating today would agree with.
You don't understand. Wealthy, beautiful, powerful people intermarry because they can. Unattractive unsuccessful people surely want to marry wealthy, beautiful, powerful people, but they usually can't. Because those wealthy, better looking people can do better.

Money and power give you the best chance of survival. It's not that like attracts like, it's that the best attracts everyone, and the environment creates circumstances that like ends up with like because like can't do better and has no incentive to do worse. No one wants to be with a fat, unambitious, unemployed person, not even other fat, unambitious, unemployed people. Everyone would rather marry better looking, wealthier people with more desirable traits. They just can't, and that can be extrapolated to every level. The girl you went out with thought she could do better than you, so she has no reason to go out with you again. You learned that you can't go out with her even though you want to, because she has no reason to date down to your level. Better attracts everyone, benefits the best, and usually leaves like with like circumstantially.

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Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post
As I said, I'm not the only one out there who are finding out how poisonous this dating culture has become. These boards are a treasure trove of folks who are frustrated and disappointed with dating, the statistic trends we're seeing regarding coupledom back it up. It's not just me.
First of all, people come to these boards to seek advice and ease their frustration. That's the point. So by design these boards are largely skewed towards people with problems. No one decides to register an account and start a thread just to say "Everything's going great and I have no problems."

Do you disagree that the less desirable traits you have, the less success you will have? Explain to me how that's poisonous and not just the natural order of things.
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Old 6th April 2016, 12:22 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post
Not at all. I just think it's ironic that all these dating apps, communication technology, etc. was supposedly created and marketed to us to improve our access to and ability to find relationships, while the reality is it's doing the exact opposite according to all the trends I've been quoting here, and that many people do not even realize it.
"Finding a relationship" is not the end goal for most people. The end goal is finding a relationship with someone their perfect match, and that isn't easy. I'd rather be selective and take my chances waiting for someone I actually love than settle and get married to someone I don't.

Why are divorce rates so high? If people were selective enough the first time around, maybe they wouldn't have married the wrong person.

There's nothing wrong with selectivity. Selective people can deal with the consequences of their actions, good or bad. People who would rather not be selective are free to do as they please. I don't see what the problem is.
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Old 6th April 2016, 12:22 PM   #22
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I guess in the "good old days", many were equally frustrated with dating, plenty old spinsters and bachelors attest to that. Not everyone "chose" to be single, some did, but for others marriage just didn't happen for them.
There was no "Golden Age"" where it didn't really matter who anyone dated, or that all women settled for any guy that just showed up.
Money, appearance, education, class, family, personality all still mattered, the "best" ones were still sought after and those that did not make the grade "settled" or remained alone.
People still filtered out those they did not like or they thought unsuitable.
We may have technology to find all those "amazing" people out there for us, but the bottom line is that it is all down to human interaction in the end, and if there is no "spark" or nothing in common or no interest, then the relationship could not develop whether we are talking 1916, 1956, 1986 or 2016.
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Old 6th April 2016, 12:45 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post
Not at all. I just think it's ironic that all these dating apps, communication technology, etc. was supposedly created and marketed to us to improve our access to and ability to find relationships, while the reality is it's doing the exact opposite according to all the trends I've been quoting here, and that many people do not even realize it.
Never done OLD and still managed to find all my LTRs (present one included) theold fashioned way. I like people in general and have no issue striking a conversation with anyone anywhere without expectation or agenda.

As a non-OLD user, I assumed modern technology is a tool to help us meet people, not to improve access to relationships; that part's still down to us.
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Old 6th April 2016, 8:10 PM   #24
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"Finding a relationship" is not the end goal for most people. The end goal is finding a relationship with someone their perfect match, and that isn't easy. I'd rather be selective and take my chances waiting for someone I actually love than settle and get married to someone I don't.

Why are divorce rates so high? If people were selective enough the first time around, maybe they wouldn't have married the wrong person.

There's nothing wrong with selectivity. Selective people can deal with the consequences of their actions, good or bad. People who would rather not be selective are free to do as they please. I don't see what the problem is.
I never said anywhere that finding any relationship should be the end goal for most people. But for those folks who are seeking a meaningful relationship, the sad reality is that they are facing a dating culture that is actively working against them because of the need for instant gratification. They are encountering a dating culture that is more hostile more superficial and less conducive to forming stable successful relationships than it has ever been. A lot of gals have a dating style that is keeping them single and keeping them from getting to know great guys and vice versa. They are jumping the gun and nexting guys way too fast because of the misguided belief in instant spark. It's not an issue of selectivity. Two dates before you decide to move on is not unreasonable. What is unreasonable is going out into the dating world expecting to be wowed within minutes of meeting someone, and then if they don't repeating the process night after night, year after year. It's crazy.
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Old 6th April 2016, 8:24 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by WaitingForBardot View Post
For some reason this thread's got me fantasizing about a world where every woman is required to give me a fair shot. Whomever my heart desires, or my gaze lands upon, is required to give me their full attention until I decide it's enough...

Lewis Grizzard got it right: "Sex hasn't been the same since women started enjoying it."
[]
Something that especially disturbs me, and which the most unhappy "nice guy" recently posting about the decline dating in modern times has not addressed:

Why, in these discussions, is it up to the women to give the undesirable (to them) men a "fair trial," but not vice versa?

Will someone please address this? Why aren't women who are deemed undesirable supposed to be given many chances to warm the guys' hearts?

That rarely, if ever, comes up here. Please explain!
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Old 6th April 2016, 8:25 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by oberkeat View Post
the sad reality is that they are facing a dating culture that is actively working against them because of the need for instant gratification. They are encountering a dating culture that is more hostile more superficial and less conducive to forming stable successful relationships than it has ever been. A lot of gals have a dating style that is keeping them single and keeping them from getting to know great guys and vice versa. They are jumping the gun and nexting guys way too fast because of the misguided belief in instant spark.
Are you willing to spend a lot of your time trying to get to know a woman who you find unattractive?
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Old 6th April 2016, 8:30 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by MidwestUSA View Post
Anyone who wants to experience the 'good old days' of dating should agree to

Get rid of their computer
Trash the xBox and PS4
Throw away the cell phone
Dial a rotary phone that shares a party line
Write letters to pen pals and WALK them to a corner mailbox
Ride your bicycle everywhere
Get a poker group together and meet once a month
Go to church
Go to the library when you need to look something up
Sit at a good old soda fountain, if you know what that is

Can we bring back drive in theaters?


If you get my drift, what one is experiencing as 'dating woes' is directly related to the advances of technology.

All of the 'organic' ways of meeting anyone have gone out the window, because people have their heads in their electronic devices 24/7[]
haha. And for heaven's sake, ivory soap and pressed dress shirts please! oh, and expect people to think you belong in jail if you're having sex "willy-nllly"
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Old 6th April 2016, 8:38 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Rejected Rosebud View Post
Something that especially disturbs me, and which the most unhappy "nice guy" recently posting about the decline dating in modern times has not addressed:

Why, in these discussions, is it up to the women to give the undesirable (to them) men a "fair trial," but not vice versa?

Will someone please address this? Why aren't women who are deemed undesirable supposed to be given many chances to warm the guys' hearts?

That rarely, if ever, comes up here. Please explain!
Cause fair or not, the mate selection process favors keeping women happy. If this party has more women at it, then men will show up. Less women, then less men.
It's called LADIES NIGHT! for a reason.

Dating apps want to cut down on harassment of women so they make stuff like Bumble so guys can't message first.

Also, the idea of less desirable women is much more exaggerated than media would like women to believe. There's no such thing as a "nice girl" syndrome.
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Old 6th April 2016, 8:45 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by lilmissjava View Post
People are much more accessible now, more than any other time in history.

The sad sad truth is that we can see people at our fingertips even if they live a thousand miles away. It's all so impersonal now.

We don't want to deal with the troublesome relationship so we escape into cyberspace. Dealing with real life issues is becoming a thing of the past. Now we have become so intertwined with the lack of digital communication in relationships as opposed to in person communication. Why didn't she text me? Why won't he add me on Facebook? etcetera and so forth.
I said this elsewhere. We associate the internet with solution, not problems.

You can order an out-of-stock shirt from 1975 from some 45 year-old lady in China but we can't find a girl who likes Spiderman, likes hiking, and cooks by logging on after work? Blasphemy!!!!
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Old 6th April 2016, 8:47 PM   #30
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Cause fair or not, the mate selection process favors keeping women happy. If this party has more women at it, then men will show up. Less women, then less men.
It's called LADIES NIGHT! for a reason.

Dating apps want to cut down on harassment of women so they make stuff like Bumble so guys can't message first.

Also, the idea of less desirable women is much more exaggerated than media would like women to believe. There's no such thing as a "nice girl" syndrome.
I don't think you understood my question, so I'll rephrase it:

To guys complaining about women who don't give them "a chance":

1) Are you willing to give women you don't find attractive AT ALL "chances"?

2) If your answer is "no," then why the double standard?
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