What Should I Expect

[WhirlwindGuy]

Those of you who may have been following already know this, but ill recap real quick:

 

 

I am 38, dating a girl who is 35. I am new to dating really, having been married for 10 years prior to being divorced for a little more than a year. My girlfriend is very new to dating as well. She is a doctor, and is Muslim. She has been in school for quite a few years, and ultimately lives a pretty conservative life. She also comes from a fairly wealthy family. Her parents were born in the Middle East, she was born here, but most of her family still resides in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Palestine, and Lebanon. She isn't ultra orthodox or anything, but she does follow the tenants of her religion somewhat. She dates, but not much, she doesn't drink, etc.

 

 

She met me and things hit it off. We both, over time, have fallen in love with each other, quite deeply in love I may add. I am not Muslim. I met her mom a month or so back and thought things went well, but come to find out that her mother doesn't approve of me at all. The reasons given are extremely silly, so I only suspect it is because 1, I am not a doctor (or overly wealthy), and 2, I am not Muslim. Her mother has tried to arrange marriages for her with wealthy business men and doctors for a while now, and none of them have been something she is interested in. She has voiced to me many times that she is in love with me, I am the one for her, we have had sex, which is something she has never done with anyone. I believe she intends to marry me some day. We see each other almost ever day, either just at lunch, or she comes by after work and stays for a few hours into the evening. We go out on a date once a week or so.

 

 

A big hurdle to overcome for us is the fact that in her culture, you respect your parents wishes typically. Her mother lives with her (I am not entirely sure why). She has led her mother to believe that she doesn't see me anymore, after her mothers initial disproval. She tells me she intends to tell her about her intentions with me, eventually, and we continue to see each other almost daily at least a little bit. We have traveled together a few times, we have vacation plans in March to go to Las Vegas for a few days. She has told all of her friends about us (her friends know her mother). She has told her sister about us. So basically the only one who is in the dark on us is her mother.

 

 

It has become kind of a touchy subject for us. I get frustrated that I cant just go to her apartment if I want to bring her something or surprise her because her mom is there. I get frustrated that we cant just tell her mom the way it is and will be. She doesn't like to talk about it much and simply tells me she will deal with it in time. I want to know how, what why, etc. I want it dealt with now, or at least see a path forward.

 

 

Am I being unreasonable? Right now I kind of feel like we are living a lie a little bit...or at least she is. I want to resolve it. Should I back off and just let it be? I have tried to resolve things with her mother. I sent her flowers, offered to take her to lunch and talk, wrote her a letter, etc. I have gotten 0 response from any of my efforts. We had an event from work to which I ordered swag for. One was a little phone holder in the car. GF wanted one so I gave her a couple for her cars. Her mom saw them and immediately started questioning about how she got them, was she still talking to me, etc. She simply told her that I am still a patient of hers, and I think they got into an argument about it, although she wont tell me what it was fully about. She gets kind of frustrated if I prod and ask more. I'm tempted to text or call her mom and profess my love for my GF and spill the beans on everything, but that's probably not right either

 

 

I just want a normal relationship I guess. I don't want the conflict and the sneaking around. I don't want her to feel conflicted every night when she comes over and has to tell her mom she is working late.

 

 

Im aggravated that her mom seems to control her life in almost all aspects. I don't know exactly, but it almost seems like her mom uses her as her cash cow. She lives with her, doesn't pay any bills, signs her up for all of these classes, makes business meetings for her with people she doesn't even know, basically treats her like a commodity she is going to use.

 

 

How much of that should I be involved in? I feel like I should probably stay out, but I am getting very serious about this girl. I love her a lot, she means a lot to me, and I don't want to see her getting used like this. For instance, a couple of nights ago she calls me kind of upset I can tell, apparently she got home and her mom started bitching at her about her cats and how they are tearing things up. Her mom saying that she is not a cat person and she needs to do something about this because it is really aggravating her. To me...how dare she. My GF pays for the place, all the bills, provides food, etc. Her mom can move the F out if she doesn't like it. How can you totally freeload of someone, then make them feel guilty for not making it yet even more accommodating for you?!? My GF feels culturally obligated to take care of her mother, so she doesn't talk back, doesn't confront, just sort of grins and bears it and apologizes...makes me kind of angry that she has to deal with that. I know it stresses her out.

 

 

Just looking to vent and for suggestions I guess.

Edited February 11, 2016 by WhirlwindGuy

[kidm]

It's not unusual in such cultures for parents to live with their children and/or for children to support their parents. Parents in such cultures are usually very involved in their children's lives. If that is something you're going to have a problem with, you should reconsider whether she is someone you want to spend the rest of your life with because her mom is going to be a staple in her life unless she decides to cut her off. She is obviously afraid to go against the way she raised and to break with tradition so you need to decide when you want to walk.

Edited February 11, 2016 by kidm

[SwordofFlame]

Well if she was going to rebel against her culture, she would have done so already? I don't really know what you could do besides just accepting it. Or walking away.

[WhirlwindGuy]

It's not unusual in such cultures for parents to live with their children and/or for children to support their parents. Parents in such cultures are usually very involved in their children's lives. If that is something you're going to have a problem with, you should reconsider whether she is someone you want to spend the rest of your life with because her mom is going to be a staple in her life unless she decides to cut her off. She is obviously afraid to go against the way she raised and to break with tradition so you need to decide when you want to walk.

 

 

 

I don't necessarily mind her being traditional, etc. What I do worry about is the fact that she hasn't yet stood up to her mother on this. I wonder what her end game plan is, and she wont really talk about it right now. I have decided, for myself, that I am going to give it a couple of more months and then kind of press it more, or hope that she resolves it before then.

 

 

She told me from the get go that she doesnt really date; in her culture it is forbidden. She isn't into dating for years or living together pre marriage. That tells me she is looking to get married, sooner rather than later, to the right person. I feel like she thinks I am the right person. She has said as much, she has slept with me, she talks of a future with me every day. She continues to make extra efforts to see me all the time, showing up almost daily on her way home for at least a little while (she lives very close to me). She has told her sister, she has told all of her friends, she kisses me in font of her colleagues, her boss, etc. All of which know her mother.

 

 

What I worry most about is the word will get back to her mother that basically the whole world knows that we are in love, and have been seeing each other every day since, and she has been kept in the dark and lied to. Then it will be worse for everyone and cause some major backlash.

 

 

I guess im trying to figure out how others would handle this? Push for a resolution now, saying either break it to your mom, or we go our own ways? Wait for her to handle it in her own way? I guess I worry that I am going to wait for her to handle it, get myself even more wrapped up in this girl (if that's possible) and be completely heart broken when her mom gives her an ultimatum and she ultimately dumps me...she swares that wont happen, but it just seems like a very plausible scenario.

Edited February 11, 2016 by WhirlwindGuy

[ses]

She's probably going to have to choose, unfortunately. Her mother is a big part of her life and I don't think your girlfriend will break ties with her due to the possible backlash and alienation from her family. She may not be religious but the need for parental approval may determine your future. Parents, especially mothers, are revered in Muslim culture. Yes, she may love you, but you'll have to swallow a bitter pill and accept that the relationship will always be overshadowed by the presence of her mother. Are you okay with that? Honestly, concealing a relationship from the mother will engender more mistrust in the future—you need to be transparent now.

 

Worst case scenario, the mother will make an ultimatum and either arrange a shotgun marriage with you (if you convert), or with someone else. You really don't have many choices, and your girlfriend will suffer a lot of the consequences because she's a Muslim woman.

Edited February 12, 2016 by ses

[angel.eyes]

Let your girlfriend handle it. Pressuring your GF and/or behaving like a bull in a China shop (e.g. confronting her mother directly) will be counterproductive.

[Ami1uwant]

My two cents.........

 

You said she was born here, was she raised here?? Is she an American in her interest and behavior??.

 

If so...then the fact dhe is Muslim is really irrelevent here.

 

An ex girlfriend of mine wasn't born inn the states, neither were her parents. That closeness of family is something very common eith immigrant families.

 

It's similar with my dad's side of the family where his mother wasn't horn here and his father was first born here. You have that sense of parental influence as an adult snd the cultural responsibility of caring for elders in the family. On the flip side of it...there is thus guilt/approval pressure for the parents onto the kids.

 

With this comes the struggle in relationships of approval...especially if it looks like you may marry someone of a different ethnicity, religion, or from certain countries.

 

Have you asked her how religious she is? She may be typical of most we'll educated Mexicans where they aren't all that religious and marrying within a religion does not matter.

[angel.eyes]

She's Muslim, not Mexican.

[WhirlwindGuy]

My two cents.........

 

You said she was born here, was she raised here?? Is she an American in her interest and behavior??.

 

If so...then the fact dhe is Muslim is really irrelevent here.

 

An ex girlfriend of mine wasn't born inn the states, neither were her parents. That closeness of family is something very common eith immigrant families.

 

It's similar with my dad's side of the family where his mother wasn't horn here and his father was first born here. You have that sense of parental influence as an adult snd the cultural responsibility of caring for elders in the family. On the flip side of it...there is thus guilt/approval pressure for the parents onto the kids.

 

With this comes the struggle in relationships of approval...especially if it looks like you may marry someone of a different ethnicity, religion, or from certain countries.

 

Have you asked her how religious she is? She may be typical of most we'll educated Mexicans where they aren't all that religious and marrying within a religion does not matter.

 

 

She is religious, but not overly so. It doesn't control her life, but she does believe and she does attempt to follow her religion in most things.

 

 

That said, she has already broken quite a few, one by dating, two by sleeping with me, three by staying over night with me numerous times.

 

 

In her eyes, she has said, she is in love with me, so she can justify all of this with that fact.

 

 

I want to believe that when the time comes, she will be the one giving her mom the ultimatum, but I worry about it I guess. I also worry about how to even progress past where we are at now.

 

 

A good example is this Sunday, valentines day. Her mom made plans for them to do a few things, so I wont even be seeing her on Valentines day. That kind of bums me out. Her mom sets up these dinners with friends so that she can introduce my GF to their single sons, etc. I obviously have a problem with that. I feel like it is completely disrespectful of me. I know her mom doesn't know about me, or if she suspects it, she obviously doesn't care. My GF has told me I have nothing to worry about. Even so, it bugs me and I want it to stop and for us to move forward from this.

 

 

I guess I probably just have to learn to be more patient and understanding? I'm assuming her mother has probably ran off most guys she has tried to date, because I am assuming most guys wouldn't stick around through this. I'm in love with her, I see how good we would be together. Im not ready to throw it in just yet.

[angel.eyes]

You're right. She's the one who should inform her mother that she's dating you. I doubt this will come unless marriage is on the table though. Why risk a rift in your family (and maybe other consequences) over just a boyfriend who then breaks up with you and disappears out of your life? For someone where you've mutually committed to spend your lives together, yes. But for a boyfriend who then disappears and goes his own way in a year? No way.

 

So, a couple of questions for you:

• Would you marry her? If so, is she aware of this?
  
• When would you envision becoming engaged?
  

 

When you're ready to get engaged, I would discuss wanting to marry her AND insist the relationship be out in the open to everyone. You can't be engaged and a secret. That would be an untenable position. If at that point, she were still unwilling to let her mother know, I would walk.

 

Until engagement is on the table, I would advise you to be patient, and let her deal with it. Out of curiosity, where is her father in all of this? Does he know about you? Why isn't her mother living with her own husband?

[WhirlwindGuy]

You're right. She's the one who should inform her mother that she's dating you. I doubt this will come unless marriage is on the table though. Why risk a rift in your family (and maybe other consequences) over just a boyfriend who then breaks up with you and disappears out of your life? For someone where you've mutually committed to spend your lives together, yes. But for a boyfriend who then disappears and goes his own way in a year? No way.

 

 

 

So, a couple of questions for you:

• Would you marry her? If so, is she aware of this?
  
• When would you envision becoming engaged?
  

When you're ready to get engaged, I would discuss wanting to marry her AND insist the relationship be out in the open to everyone. You can't be engaged and a secret. That would be an untenable position. If at that point, she were still unwilling to let her mother know, I would walk.

 

Until engagement is on the table, I would advise you to be patient, and let her deal with it. Out of curiosity, where is her father in all of this? Does he know about you? Why isn't her mother living with her own husband?

 

 

 

First about her father. He was an arranged marriage for her mother and was abusive. He was out of the picture about 27 years ago and they have little to no relationship now. Her mother raised her and her sister alone, and has never remarried or had a relationship since.

 

 

Second, we have talked about engagement and I have told her that I am pretty certain in what I want. I see no reason to look for anyone else. I would marry her. I know its probably way to soon to know for sure, but I feel pretty confident that she is the one for me. I could go on and on as to my reasons why, I have a ton of them, but i'm sure that's overkill here.

 

 

I have told her that I would get an engagement ring today if it helped her deal with the issues with her mother better and make her feel more comfortable about her issues with her religion and culture.

 

 

While she has said this is what she wants as well, she doesn't want to jump into anything too soon or for the wrong reasons, which I totally understand. I told her, for me, I am committed and engaged to you already. The ring would just be a visual representation of how I already feel. I am willing to do it now, or whenever. Realistically, we have talked about engagement this summer, or fall, assuming everything continues to go well.

Edited February 12, 2016 by WhirlwindGuy

[WhirlwindGuy]

Her sister has faced similar issues with her mother in the past and rebelled against it.

 

 

She is currently in medical school and doesn't really come around much. What I find even more insulting is that her sister is dating some guy who (from the stories I hear) is obviously cheating on her, yet her mother doesn't seem to have a problem with that.

 

 

Here I am, completely devoted, do absolutely anything and everything for her, have bent over backwards and went WELL out of my way numerous times to see to her well being, etc. and I am the one that is ostracized.

 

 

It is very frustrating.

[angel.eyes]

Yes. I had a feeling that was the story behind her mother living with her.

 

It's tough. Your GF wouldn't be where she is today without her mother. Her mother gave up a lot in her life, to focus on raising her and her sister. That being said, your GF will have to find a balance.

 

It's also not fair to you in the long run, if this continues. Here's what I would do. Set a personal time limit for yourself--maybe this summer or fall. If things haven't resolved by then, walk away from the relationship. She may be very special, but it's entirely possible that she may not be able to give you what you need in a relationship. Her choices by that point should give you some indication. Either you will have stagnated in the relationship or she will firmly but politely let her mother know that you are the man in her life and things can progress.

 

How long have you been dating?

[angel.eyes]

Her mother can't control her sister, so she doesn't bother. It's up to your girlfriend to set her own boundaries with her mother. Your GF hasn't yet, but she yet may. Only time will tell.

 

That being said, you should have an (unspoken) personal timeline for when you walk. It's not an ultimatum. It's simply the point at which you cut your losses and move on to explore other options.