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My growing bitterness for men


Omei

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I feel that I'm now getting to a point where I'm starting to have hatred and bitterness towards men I can feel it inside me growing I wish it wasn't there but with how things have gone its hard not too.

 

I have been in two abusive relationships by men one 5 year abusive one and another 5 year verbally abusive both different guys. I will say the verbal one did the most damage and holds my hate while the physical one I've managed to free myself of all distress and emotion.

 

I am in no way perfect but I pour my heart and soul into my relationships emotionally, financially I'm loyal I've never cheated I'm calm in a fight, I'm very good with communication and talking rationally esp with this site by my side I've learned a lot in relationships I'm extremely loving and overly forgiving I'm also very generous. Both men crushed me I recovered I never let their wrong doing hold my view and opinions of men in general. I have always been proud of that ability.

 

it's the last 4 years I have spent single that enrage me it's not because I haven't found someone it's because men in general seem to be entitled *******s. I cannot tell you how many times I have been treated like a sex object. How many times I've been verbally abused simply for declining a date ....it's in my right to do so. Guys will take interest and if I'm not interested back they don't accept it like an adult and move on no, I'm harassed I'm fat or ugly or a whore.

 

When I do find a nice guy I am often annoyed at how many times they try to turn every conversation into a sexual one, if I am digging a guy and I flirt they flirt back which is cool but then it often opens a flood gate for many men where they have no filter and think it's just a free for all and now I'm an open book because I flirted a little.

 

How men handle rejection bugs me a lot in my experience many do not know how to handle rejection and they feel it's justification to go full out psycho, when I'm rejected I say okay take care when men are rejected from what I've endured it's a free for all to take the piss out of someone.

 

Back in August of 2015 I had a male co worker stalk me home lie to me at my door about needing help then forcing himself upon me once inside with his con lie, he was fired the next day his reason? I smile and am always nice to him that's just ****ing acting professional at work if you asked me.

 

Lots of men seem to charm you into thinking there's chemistry when there really isn't and I've come to notice they're lying, and often have gfs.

 

When you do finally agree to open up to a man say sexually they're constantly probing for more and seeing what they can get away with adding pressure till you have to tell them to back off.

 

I miss how it used to be with men it doesn't seem like it's this way anymore in the past a man would court you he would date you he wouldn't ask sexual things of you or even probe it for general discussion he would keep his mouth shut till you were his and ready. He would call and listen you would grow a bond and THEN finally after some time would sex come.

 

All the men now seem to just want quick relationships with fast sexual outcomes like sex expectations within the first two weeks.

 

No man seems to want to make a girl feel loved and cherished without expecting anything in immediate return these days.

 

I wanna go back to the 80's/90's sighhhhh were we still had young men giving a damn.

 

I'm sure there is a good man out there somewhere, someplace but my last 4 years of single hood I have found the majority are like these men.

 

I feel that in my life I've often had to deal with much cruelty of men too much.

 

I am considering staying single for life and I'm a very beautiful woman.

 

I do not hate men, yet.... But because of their behaviour I can feel the birth of it which is a shame I think I have a lot to offer a good man.

Edited by Omei
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Yep, I've experienced similar in some female friends who've lamented, occasionally, their choices in voluntarily going off men due to similar reasons you outlined, plus some painful divorce experiences. I think the oldest one is about six years older than me and she got divorced at 47 and, well.... She's 62, Indonesian, a retired teacher and runs marathons. Scary :D Nice lady, done with men. Others aren't so firm and they still enjoy and desire sexual and emotional intimacy but are just fed up with the crap they're getting out there.

 

Tough situation. Maybe it's easier to deal with at our age but I can't imagine at a younger age.

 

TBH, having healthy female friendships keeps a check on my potential for bitterness and a balance on any proclivities I might have to male-centric perspectives and I thank them for that.

 

Do you have any male friends? Perhaps husbands of your female friends or similar? IDK if it'll help but worth a try.

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Just to throw in a male view point here, but it goes both ways - I've met, got to know, dated girls who I've really fell for and wanted to take my time and get to know, fall in love with, but they just turn out to want some fun or have no intention of getting close or just throw my love away after a while in favour of someone else. This has stopped me from really bothering to look for a long time and also caused my wall to come up so anyone interested has been kept out. I have no idea what the answer to all this is, but I guess if there's people like you and me out there, both of whom want more out of a relationship then there must be plenty others too - they just may be harder to find then the rest.

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I have some empathy for you OP. I am always amazed at the way men behave in the pursuit of sex. It is quite shocking, especially to me as someone who is quite old school in terms of my approaxh to dating. I would much rather form a an emotional connection with a woman over a nunber of dates and build up to having sex to the point where you both want each other so much you can't keep your hands off each other.

 

That being said I am disappointed that it doesn't seem tonwork like that anymore. That was how it was in my youth but in the last 10 years there has been a paradigm shift in dating and now the rule for both genders is to have sex for fun as quickly as possible with no emotional connection involved. It makes no sense for men to use a mating strategy that doesn't work so there have to be women that respond to the sort of neanderthal behaviour that you describe and from my experience with OLD I can see why men would think women are up for sex from the word go.

 

As the poster above points out, the counterpoint to the male neanderthal is the emotionally unavailable woman. She won't flat out come on to you like the neanderthal, she will instead give you breadcrumbs to boost her ego whilst keeping you at arm's length because she doesn't want to get hurt. This can result in sex, although if you want her for who she is rather than just her body then tough luck pal because she has her pick of the men and she will be on to someone new in a week who doesn't have the same regard for her as a person and just wants to use her for sex in the same way as she wants to use him for attention and validation. It is hard when you see the 'good' ones not wanting to be caught yet complaining in the same breath about how they are used for sex by the same men who are then trying the same approach on you OP.

 

In my opinion men and women are actually very similar in terms of their wants and needs for dating these days it is just the method they employ that is different. Men are just more direct and sleazy about it.

 

Ultimately, the game has changed for both genders. The current dating pool does not favour people who want to form a lasting connection/relationship. It favours people who want the physical stuff and some ego affirming wihout damaging them in the process. The genuine people who want to meet a life partner and have a fulfilling relationship are consequently struggling to find like minded people. It is almost like up to their early 30s 'relationship' is a dirty word. I worry at what the future dating landscape will look like if it is as bad as this already.

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LookAtThisPOst
Just to throw in a male view point here, but it goes both ways - I've met, got to know, dated girls who I've really fell for and wanted to take my time and get to know, fall in love with, but they just turn out to want some fun or have no intention of getting close or just throw my love away after a while in favour of someone else. This has stopped me from really bothering to look for a long time and also caused my wall to come up so anyone interested has been kept out. I have no idea what the answer to all this is, but I guess if there's people like you and me out there, both of whom want more out of a relationship then there must be plenty others too - they just may be harder to find then the rest.

 

When I would try to "take my time" with women....I'd get friend zoned or "You're a great guy, and I'm sure you'd be a great catch...for someone else."

 

After a couple of decades being told that by women I wanted to date gets old and you sometimes don't buy what into what they are saying WHEN they say that.

 

I think this why some men use some kind of sexual innuendo in conversation as a means to flirt. Innuendo isn't really that bad as it's a non-crass way to show your intentions are of interest.

 

Now, if he's getting vulgar and pressuring you for sex that's pretty nasty, but funny thing...I've noticed women that DID show interest in ME use sexual "read between the lines" connotations with me.

 

Like, "You know, if you expect to get lucky with me....<enter funny quip here>" It's a green light that she's interested. I did ask her out, we had a nice date...but I wasn't feeling it with her. Not much in common...she wound up getting married though. So since she was marriage-minded, does this cancel out her sexual innuendo as being "obscene and nasty" with me?

 

Had I used the same sentence with woman, I'd probably get dirty look! OR.....if she was attracted...I'd probably get smile! See where the difference lies?

 

I don't think you can necessarily discount men for using innuendo as a means to flirt vs. friendship.

 

I've known some men would talk about the weather or car repairs or some inane crap in attempt to go out of their way to sound non-sexual which usually puts them in the friend zone.

 

So it's like they have to find that "sweet spot" between being sexually offensive to inane, asexual conversations.

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LookAtThisPOst
It is almost like up to their early 30s 'relationship' is a dirty word. I worry at what the future dating landscape will look like if it is as bad as this already.

 

I NEVER thought I'd see how the dreaded "M" word (marriage) would later turn into the dreaded "R" word (relationship)

 

As a Generation X'er, the "M" word, was something people wanted to avoid. We were of the mind that, sure I'll date you indefinately, but with no marital intention, and couples co-habitated without any marriage.

 

NOW...people don't want to even be in a RELATIONSHIP. They either want F-buddies or one-night stands.

 

Now we're starting to feel like old people complaining about the younger generations.

 

"KIDS THESE DAYS...all they want to do is F**K, not be in relationships.

 

I know people my parents age used to make snide remarks about the neighbors "shacking up"

 

"There's Tina, she's found another shack-up." People my parents age were traditonalists when it came to marriage.

 

"oh oh, looks like she is shackin' up with some guy"

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I have some empathy for you OP. I am always amazed at the way men behave in the pursuit of sex. It is quite shocking, especially to me as someone who is quite old school in terms of my approaxh to dating. I would much rather form a an emotional connection with a woman over a nunber of dates and build up to having sex to the point where you both want each other so much you can't keep your hands off each other.

 

That being said I am disappointed that it doesn't seem tonwork like that anymore. That was how it was in my youth but in the last 10 years there has been a paradigm shift in dating and now the rule for both genders is to have sex for fun as quickly as possible with no emotional connection involved. It makes no sense for men to use a mating strategy that doesn't work so there have to be women that respond to the sort of neanderthal behaviour that you describe and from my experience with OLD I can see why men would think women are up for sex from the word go.

 

As the poster above points out, the counterpoint to the male neanderthal is the emotionally unavailable woman. She won't flat out come on to you like the neanderthal, she will instead give you breadcrumbs to boost her ego whilst keeping you at arm's length because she doesn't want to get hurt. This can result in sex, although if you want her for who she is rather than just her body then tough luck pal because she has her pick of the men and she will be on to someone new in a week who doesn't have the same regard for her as a person and just wants to use her for sex in the same way as she wants to use him for attention and validation. It is hard when you see the 'good' ones not wanting to be caught yet complaining in the same breath about how they are used for sex by the same men who are then trying the same approach on you OP.

 

In my opinion men and women are actually very similar in terms of their wants and needs for dating these days it is just the method they employ that is different. Men are just more direct and sleazy about it.

 

Ultimately, the game has changed for both genders. The current dating pool does not favour people who want to form a lasting connection/relationship. It favours people who want the physical stuff and some ego affirming wihout damaging them in the process. The genuine people who want to meet a life partner and have a fulfilling relationship are consequently struggling to find like minded people. It is almost like up to their early 30s 'relationship' is a dirty word. I worry at what the future dating landscape will look like if it is as bad as this already.

 

 

Brilliant post! All 100% accurate.

 

The guys who act like the biggest Neanderthals, as you put it, are the biggest winners and draw the most women. It is seen on a daily basis.

 

Heck, the OP even gave up ten years of her life to F#ckwit abusive men!! A decade given to losers, yet quality guys who wouldn't dream of abusing a cupcake are lucky to get ten seconds and then get the 'we can be friends?' line.

 

Rewarding Sh*t behaviour enables it further girls. Remember that.

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AverageJoe1986

Well my experiences are nowhere near as bad as yours OP but I am beginning to develop feelings of complete bitterness and disgust with women. Every ignore I get on a dating site makes me feel completely invisible. Every time I hear a group of woman chatting about how guy is hot or guy b is cute makes me hate myself more. Every woman who complains and asks why there are not enough hot men around. Yet every day my fake profiles online get inundated with attention - simply because the photos are of good looking men.

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LookAtThisPOst
A decade given to losers, yet quality guys who wouldn't dream of abusing a cupcake are lucky to get ten seconds and then get the 'we can be friends?' line.

 

 

I resemble that remark...constantly! LOL.

 

Every time I hear a group of woman chatting about how guy is hot or guy b is cute makes me hate myself more.

 

Right, and esp. when it's a group of women over 40. Rather cringe-worthy to hear.

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Unfortunately with so many people being single, people who would have been happily (or unhappily) married in days gone by, are being forced onto the dating scene and that now means OLD for many.

OLD I guess was designed for a young audience, young people who wanted to hook up - not for anyone who wanted a serious relationship, but OLD has morphed into being a lifeline for anyone looking for a mate who cannot meet the person of their dreams, in their own friend, colleague, acquaintance circle.

Consequently there are those who use it for casual and hook ups coming up against those looking for a long term mate, and unfortunately those who are looking for a serious relationship come off worst.

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The best thing I have found is to forgive.

 

You don't need to forget and can remain wary to these things happening again but forgiveness does wonders for the soul and also getting rid of the fear and understanding that each time it doesn't work out it is a process that will enable you to meet someone who is equally worthy of you...

 

With out forgiveness and with out letting go of the fear I would very easily be where you are OP.

 

Let it all go. If you hang onto this fear and hatred it will prevent you from meeting the better men...

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A thousand years from now, after our descendants have all moved to a different solar system, the archeologists are going to come poking around to try and understand what three million years of life on earth must've been like.. and ya know what they're going to say? ... "Wow! It must've sucked to be these guys. Everything was going fine until the year 2016, and then everything went to hell in a hand basket. Could they not see that it was all about to come unraveled when they put the women to work and started them on birth control? Then a few years later... internet, OKC and Tinder, and this species as we knew it was done"

Edited by salparadise
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LoveRefreshed

You need to own your feelings and not make excuses for them. Your anecdotes are not the reason for your feelings of resentment. You should ask yourself why you stayed five years with two men who were abusive? Maybe you should have had learned with the first lesson. You should be focused on changing what you can change instead of what's beyond you.

 

 

Grow a thicker skin when you reject people and they fire back with a comment intended to make you feel the hurt they just felt. Life's not full of rainbows and sunshine for most people. I'm sorry about the assault, but exactly zero of my friends have ever been accused of doing such a thing. Don't hold it against every man out there.

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Oh yes to this thread. Single for about 3 years come July of this year. My joke is I'll be the crazy cat lady. I'd say I am about 7 on the looks scale, 8 when I do makeup. I work out 4-5x a week. I have been told I have a nice smile, personality, and shape. Its like damned if you do damned if you don't. I try to leave it to God because it seems like everyone else who does gets what they want. Its been very hard for me to 100% believe but I am trying. What else do I have to lose than to remain the crazy cat lady?

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LookAtThisPOst
Unfortunately with so many people being single, people who would have been happily (or unhappily) married in days gone by, are being forced onto the dating scene and that now means OLD for many.

OLD I guess was designed for a young audience, young people who wanted to hook up - not for anyone who wanted a serious relationship, but OLD has morphed into being a lifeline for anyone looking for a mate who cannot meet the person of their dreams, in their own friend, colleague, acquaintance circle.

Consequently there are those who use it for casual and hook ups coming up against those looking for a long term mate, and unfortunately those who are looking for a serious relationship come off worst.

 

Elaine, it is sad. For every profile I've seen of a woman that says, "If you're looking for sex, FWB, or a one-night stand, please move on!

 

In days past, I would try to assure them that I wasn't one of THOSE guys. But apparently that wasn't a selling point. lol

 

Yes, though SOME say they use online as a supplement to their real life social circles. Thing is, if you've asked these single people, "Wel, how come you're not meeting any single people in your social circles?"

 

Their friends are married nor they cannot even be introduced to other singles because THOSE people don't know of any unattached people or they friendzoned the guys in their social circle.

 

Some actually PREFER online dating over any other method. I believe this because after taking a year off of POF, I'm still seeing the same 30/40-something women on these sites with unrealistic expectations. Sadly some are in my area that really don't belong in that area if you ask me considering their standards aren't in line with the natives/residents of their own community.

 

Basically, high maint. types living in a blue collar community.

 

They may even become shut-ins and remain home bound and probably only leave the house for necessities like groceries and the gym as if you do choose a social life where they live, it's either at the BINGO parlor or Elks Clubs. When they get something to eat, they order take out and bring it home.

 

I know of one woman in my area that's an ex-wife of someone I know. She's had her profile strewn across the internet, but I found out from her she has male friends (some are even married) ....they are old high school buds from up north (she's mid 40s). They use their frequent flier miles to fly her in to keep them company, they even put her up in a hotel room. Rather sad way to live. Says she doesn't hang out with local friends as they like to drink...she doesn't touch alcohol, not even one. I think she tried Meetup a long time ago, but hasn't touched it since.

 

Some of these, even if they are LARGE cities typically complain how they can't "Meet any good men where they live"...so they thusly go online to find them.

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More importantly, you should examine why you stayed with abusers for5 years each.

 

There are lots of cruddy people, of both genders. Just remember, you only need one!

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You won't get much sympathy from the nice, respectful men here. Women probably look past them because they're physically unattractive, boring or are a pushover. Good luck finding your hot "alpha male" who also treats you like a queen. I'm sure he's out there somewhere.

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I've noticed that one very sad thing that can happen, when someone goes through a hurtful experience, is that as time passes it's no longer the experience itself that does damage, but the story the person tells themselves about what the experience means. For example: "Y did this bad thing to me because I deserved it." "Because two people close to me betrayed me, ALL people are probably betrayers." People carry on their lives believing these stories to be true, and ironically it only makes them MORE likely to find experiences that validate those stories, and LESS likely to find what they really want in life.

 

OP and others who have posted here, I'm right there with you in feeling increasingly annoyed at superficial people who wouldn't know what intimacy was or how to handle it if it rammed itself up their a*ses, who knowingly take advantage of others or openly abuse people who come into their orbit. I also observe that modern society has so shredded our social fabric that opportunities are few for genuine connection with others.

 

But for every instance where these things are TRUE (and they are), there is an instance where it is NOT. For every awful person, there is a kind and worthy person. We can't let our lives be defined by the shi*ty people we encounter, but rather by our efforts to rise above these encounters and aim for the "more" to which we know, deep down, we are entitled. We all deserve love and we will find it if we don't stop believing it's out there to be found. Just by telling ourselves that finding real love is a lost cause, makes it a lost cause.

 

Often we, and not our experiences, are the stonemasons of our own prisons.

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More importantly, you should examine why you stayed with abusers for5 years each.

 

There are lots of cruddy people, of both genders. Just remember, you only need one!

 

 

I was young and I didn't stay....we don't need to analyze a past that's no longer relevant or apart of my life (teen years) I should of just left that part out knowing people would consider it to be part of my current feelings.

 

Like I said in my original post those I've over come those difficulties and viewed men in a very good way it's the last four years of interactions with men that Im picking at here.

 

People are right the game has changed it's extremely very hard to find a man who wants to build an emotional connection, seems to be the same for woman.

 

I honestly would be okay if the internet never happened lol

Edited by Omei
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IME, the emotional connections are easy. The sticky wicket is the attractiveness part. I think, based on some more recent experiences, that some actually get angry that I'm not more attractive :D Fun times. Getting old is such a pleasure. Seriously.

 

In that vein, I can certainly empathize. It's difficult to find an attractive man to build an emotional connection with. No doubt. Especially at my age. For young folks like yourself, maybe different. I've noticed the young guys are socialized differently these days and are more open in some ways. Still, the attractiveness part has play. Sometimes the stuff that enables them to build emotional connections detracts from attractiveness. We're all different in that regard.

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There was a time in my life when I would have felt the need to explain that there are decent men out there, or rebut experiences by pointing out some vile things that women do and sense of entitlement that women hold even more openly and unapologetically than men or various contradictions that women express between word and action but I don't think that helps and only serves to distract from the true lessons that can be learned.

 

However, there is a perspective that I can offer than I hope can be helpful. I went through a period of bad experiences with women that put me well on the path to bitterness. After my break up with an ex, something hit me that was both embarrassing and empowering, not only did I stay in the relationship with her well beyond getting enough information to move on, I likely passed over several other women that wouldn't have treated me in the manner that she did.

 

It wasn't simply that they weren't "hot" or that my ex was over the top attractive. The real painful side of it was, that there was something validating in her nastiness that I didn't quite own. I didn't want to own it, but there was no other explanation of why I stayed in and selected the relationships that I did. It made her seem more 'real' and 'genuine' than the women that were much more pleasant to me.

 

When I did the work of finding out what it was about me that caused me to seek out and more importantly hold onto those specific women I was able to finally move on with confidence. But the hardest part was batting away the easy answers of how I was right and they were wrong and actually considering that I was seeking out and enabling this behavior.

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I'm worried not about seeking but dropping

 

See now I'm very non tolerant if a man tells me he's depressed or unstable in anyway or he shows any slight sign of troubles I run for the hills. I worry that I may not be giving men enough chance now because any sign of unhappiness I'm out like a flash of lightening I am wondering if my fear of them turning out badly holds me back or if I'm actually making wise choices.

 

My thread was sparked last night after telling a guy who's been promising to come see me that I wasn't willing to wait anymore we had talked about getting together for some time now (I didn't actually wait but I told him I was he had ask me not to have sex with other guys that's a lot to ask someone you haven't met I didn't fight it though it was sweet at the time so just said Ok) and basically I said that I was ready to move on from whatever it was we had going, so he told me I was a gold digger lol instead of just accepting my choice I'm a gold digger lol at no point did I ever accept his gifts or money which he offered a ton of times I always said no, now if we ever did meet down the road he burnt his bridge.

 

I don't feel that my generation has the skillset to be in a mature relationship I'm finding it really hard to find guys in touch with themself and I'll blame the internet over and over lol.

Edited by Omei
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As somebody who has been in abusive relationships too, I politely disagree.

 

Past can be very relevant for the success of your next relationship if you have traumas that hasn't been worked out. And just this tread suggests you do.

 

Unless you have dated a number of men to make statistically significant conclusions (we're talking 100s here :D), I think you don't have the base to generalize that people don't look for emotional connection. You just haven't been ready to meet these people yet :)

 

I was young and I didn't stay....we don't need to analyze a past that's no longer relevant or apart of my life (teen years) I should of just left that part out knowing people would consider it to be part of my current feelings.

 

Like I said in my original post those I've over come those difficulties and viewed men in a very good way it's the last four years of interactions with men that Im picking at here.

 

People are right the game has changed it's extremely very hard to find a man who wants to build an emotional connection, seems to be the same for woman.

 

I honestly would be okay if the internet never happened lol

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As somebody who has been in abusive relationships too, I politely disagree.

 

Past can be very relevant for the success of your next relationship if you have traumas that hasn't been worked out. And just this tread suggests you do.

 

Unless you have dated a number of men to make statistically significant conclusions (we're talking 100s here :D), I think you don't have the base to generalize that people don't look for emotional connection. You just haven't been ready to meet these people yet :)

 

Okay you may have been in abusive relationships whatever your path doesn't mean I'm on the same path. I over came those a long time ago Those were relationships in my teens and I'm about to hit 30.

 

I've had various relationships since then and also waited to have them after my issues of anger and hate were resolved before I ever entered a new one. I'm really proud of my efforts on that I've never blamed future bfs for their wrong doings. That's why I mentioned it in the first place was because I know I'm not getting bitter because of them it's the men of the now that's making me feel this way.

 

Now I've been single and very ready for years but the dynamics of dating have changed soooo much to the 4 dates then sex expectations, and I'm extremely put off by this if you read over my posts my main issue here is how men bring up sex.

 

One of the things I hate most about sharing my past abusive relationships is people think your a victim forever broken, not yet fix and that's simply just not true you don't have to go through your whole life riding off the sorrows of your past.

Edited by Omei
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I'm worried not about seeking but dropping

 

See now I'm very non tolerant if a man tells me he's depressed or unstable in anyway or he shows any slight sign of troubles I run for the hills. I worry that I may not be giving men enough chance now because any sign of unhappiness I'm out like a flash of lightening I am wondering if my fear of them turning out badly holds me back or if I'm actually making wise choices.

 

My thread was sparked last night after telling a guy who's been promising to come see me that I wasn't willing to wait anymore we had talked about getting together for some time now (I didn't actually wait but I told him I was he had ask me not to have sex with other guys that's a lot to ask someone you haven't met I didn't fight it though it was sweet at the time so just said Ok) and basically I said that I was ready to move on from whatever it was we had going, so he told me I was a gold digger lol instead of just accepting my choice I'm a gold digger lol at no point did I ever accept his gifts or money which he offered a ton of times I always said no, now if we ever did meet down the road he burnt his bridge.

 

I don't feel that my generation has the skillset to be in a mature relationship I'm finding it really hard to find guys in touch with themself and I'll blame the internet over and over lol.

 

This has nothing to do with generations just like it has nothing to do with men in general. those are just excuses and blanket generalizations.

 

Look at the men that you are CHOOSING! If someone is interested, they will meet you quickly. Why would you even associate with a guy who is dragging his feet at meeting, offering you money/gifts, and asking you to refrain from sex before you meet? What in the world? You are choosing these men.

 

"it was sweet at the time"- No, it wasn't. It was creepy, controlling, and absurd.

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