Emotional Availability, Catch 22

[LoveRefreshed]

Does anyone else feel like that to get a woman to love you, you need to be emotionally unavailable?

 

In all of my relationships, I start off vulnerable a little to the girls and it seems like they don't appreciate it or find it attractive. I feel like they just aren't that into me or are going to hurt me by finding someone else.

 

At some point I wall up and close off emotionally to prepare for it. Then it seems the women fall in love with me. The problem is that there's no going back for me, or never has been up until this point in my life.

 

I find it disappointing, to get the thing I want most, I basically have to reject it.

[PegNosePete]

Does anyone else feel like that to get a woman to love you, you need to be emotionally unavailable?

No, I never, ever felt that. Quite the opposite in fact. I feel that being emotionally unavailable is the biggest way to put off a woman.

 

Don't think about it in such black and white terms. You're not either emotionally unavailable or vulnerable. There is a large middle ground where you can be manly but sensitive.

[Michelle ma Belle]

I can't say that is the case with me.

 

Then again, there is a difference between being in touch with your feelings and it's another to be a bloody bleeding heart with no backbone. One is attractive while the other is a huge turn off.

[ZA Dater]

Dating; something simple made complicated.

[Versacehottie]

Bit of truth to what you are saying. I have seen it many times. I would just say as a solution--maybe you should protect yourself at first (build more of a romantic friendship, keep it a little surface-y and don't look so far into the future) and open up as you go (for more intense, close feelings, relationship type hopes). I think you just need to control the pace of your emotions and revealing them to the girls you like. I know when a guy has been too much up front emotionally for me and the majority of my girlfriends, it's a deal killer. My opinion of why is that it makes the guy seem like we are from two different places for lack of a better word. Also it doesn't seem based in a real bond, just initial infatuation. Most guys are slower to reveal their real feelings for you so it also makes a guy who does that seem a little out the norm. Too emo; comes off as desperate.

 

It works both ways--in general, this is a problem a lot of girls have. They jump way too far into the future imagining things with the new guy and they end up in this scenario. Happy to help you figure out next time there's someone in the picture for you. Good luck

[insert_name]

Being emotionally unavailable seems to be a good 'catch all' strategy to pique a woman's interest.

 

Ultimately it is still likely to end in failure, but from what I am reading on LS it is more likely to get your foot in the door with a girl than any other approach. Women seem to respond best to a challenge. If you are up front with no bull or games you run the risk of communicating your interest too much and the woman thinks you are a push over. You aren't a push over in terms of your boundaries, but knowing that you are keen on them seems to translate to a woman that the hard work has been done and there is nothing left worth pursuing.

 

Personally, I am getting fed up of not playing games and just putting myself out there and being unsuccessful. I do feel that a man has to calibrate his behaviour to succeed in dating so that he retains a certain detachment. It shouldn't be this way, but it is. It sucks, quite frankly.

[LostOnes05]

I agree with you a bit. I've found that when I really didn't care about initiating conversation with women, they always went out of their way to talk to me. When I actually cared or developed feelings for them...poof, they needed to find themselves etc. So now I'm back to not caring because 1) I'm really busy working on my purpose and hobbies and 2) it seems to work better than me going out of my way to pursue women. I'm not sure on the perspective from women over 30, but I've seen this so much with women in their 20s.

[LoveRefreshed]

I'm not talking two weeks in "Oh I love you baby! I can't wait until we're married" type things here.

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of four to six months in of dating and ****ing, me asking the girl to be my gf and make it exclusive and she tells me I should be happy with what I have. I remember rolling over and facing the wall (this was just after we boned) and deciding she wasn't going to be it for me.

 

She fell in love hard with me after that. I stopped asking for it and then she wanted it. By then, it was too late.

 

I mean like two months in, telling them they're more than a bang buddy and you are starting to like them and they are wishy washy about going forward so I shut them out. When I stop asking for more, girls always want more.

 

I've noticed with post coital snuggles. When I slide over after we're done and make no contact, its like the girls yearn for it. When I hold them after, it seems they could care less.

[insert_name]

I agree with you a bit. I've found that when I really didn't care about initiating conversation with women, they always went out of their way to talk to me. When I actually cared or developed feelings for them...poof, they needed to find themselves etc. So now I'm back to not caring because 1) I'm really busy working on my purpose and hobbies and 2) it seems to work better than me going out of my way to pursue women. I'm not sure on the perspective from women over 30, but I've seen this so much with women in their 20s.

 

Its not much better. I am dating women in their 30s off OLD and it seems that as soon as I tell a girl that I 'like' them (I stress 'like' as in they are someone I want to know better) they seem to delight that they have that effect over me and then back off, like I have validated them and they don't need anything more from me.

 

My experiences and the stuff I read on here make me think that *generally* women want to feel like they don't deserve the guy they are with in a very unhealthy way and are lucky to have him- like they are totally leagues apart. And crappy behaviour from the guy indicates that he doesn't need them because he has options. Women don't like the behaviour but want to see it through because they feel they have the attention of a guy who obviously is in demand if he can treat them like crap.

 

In short, validating a woman's appeal early on is bad news for guys. Its sad but I am really starting to see that engaging in a race to the bottom by seeing who can make the bigger display of caring the least is the only way a man can survive. At least with women off OLD. But who wants to be a part of that?! Perhaps the only way to win is not to actually take part, if you can't be open, emotionally.

[Redhead14]

Does anyone else feel like that to get a woman to love you, you need to be emotionally unavailable?

 

In all of my relationships, I start off vulnerable a little to the girls and it seems like they don't appreciate it or find it attractive. I feel like they just aren't that into me or are going to hurt me by finding someone else.

 

At some point I wall up and close off emotionally to prepare for it. Then it seems the women fall in love with me. The problem is that there's no going back for me, or never has been up until this point in my life.

 

I find it disappointing, to get the thing I want most, I basically have to reject it.

 

No one should "make" themselves emotionally unavailable. What you can and should do is manage your emotions. Acknowledge them while realizing mentally that you need to not let yourself get too emotional too soon with someone. Be in the moment, enjoy the time with that person, and observe.

 

"Hey, I really like this girl. It could be love" . . . "but, I've only known her for a week, tomorrow she may do something that really turns me off. I'm having a nice time right now, let's see what tomorrow brings".

[salparadise]

This works different ways for different people and at different stages of life I think. Immature women tend to go for the hot guys who put on a big show of machismo, and sensitivity/emotional availability tends to undermine that image. I've seen threads on LS where a young, immature woman said she lost respect for a guy who cried when his mother died, and other such nonsense. Most grow out of it - not all.

 

Many smart, mature, evolved women (usually older) not only are accepting of emotional availability, but require it. Still, you can't just lay it on them on the first date and expect things to go well. It's a process of gradual mutual disclosure, confirmation and building of trust and openness.

 

I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I felt I had to withhold what I'm feeling to maintain a facade of stoic rigidity. I that's what a woman wants then she's simply not my type. But I certainly do pay attention to the signals of reciprocity and appropriateness as we progress through the early stages. I look for a normal, gradual progression with a fully functional person.

 

Fully functional means emotionally available for both genders.

[Redhead14]

If you "make" yourself emotionally unavailable you will attract two kinds of women: 1) a woman who is also emotionally unavailable or 2) a woman who is desperate and wants to "draw" you out as validation to herself that she is so desirable as to be able to do that for a man . . .

[ScienceGal]

No. Do not play games.

 

In the beginning, be relaxed and be yourself. There's nothing wrong with waiting and showing your vulnerability to someone who has given indication that they deserve it. You can still be open and honest without putting your whole heart out there. In time, share more and more if it feels like the right thing to do. Might you get rejected for showing vulnerability? Sure, but not by a mature and emotionally available woman.

 

I just dated someone for 6 weeks who is emotionally unavailble. I liked him from the first date for many reasons, but over time he wasn't opening up, at all. I'd flirt and compliment him only to get nothing in return. I eventually had to ask how he was feeling and he couldn't even answer me. Said he hadn't really thought about it. He just wanted to keep spending time together. What he did mention a few times were the women who he dated who let him down. I knew he wasn't available to truly connect with me.

 

Our last date was Friday and I haven't reached out since we hugged goodbye. Neither has he. And it's too bad. I am a woman who appreciates openness and vulnerability because I know we all have to go there in order to find a truly great relationship. I would've been thrilled if he could've just said "you know, I'm scared because of my past experiences, but I'm willing to try again, can we just take things slow?"

 

Don't change your behavior because you think that's what women want, because you might miss out on a great partner, and the right partner.

[littlez360]

Well... This is a kind of a yes/no/maybe so kinda question.

I personally don't really have any emotion to invest (PTSD side effect) and it certainly doesn't seem to slow me down as far as "picking up women" however it most certainly effects my ability to maintain anything long term...

It depends on a lot of factors. Some women are lookin for a fairy tale kinda thing, some women are just looking for something with no strings, and a million of other things in between.

[LoveRefreshed]

Well good discussions.

 

I'm not choosing to make myself emotionally unavailable, it's that I show some vulnerable side to me and I can see a girl pull back or straight rejects it/me and in the worst case, made me ashamed that I felt some certain way. In response, I protect myself instinctually and withdraw. Then what happens are those girls start reaching out after I've withdrawn and it's too late.

 

I don't say anything ridiculous as I love you within a week (and have never felt it that fast). It's thing like talking about a possible relationship in the future, that you think they'd make a good partner, or just commenting that you find something special about them. I'm very physically affectionate- Once I've started a physical relationship with a girl, I will usually greet her with a nice embrace and a kiss when she comes over and when she leaves. I've noticed girls shy away from this.

 

Once that happens, I stop doing it or never say anything like that again. I notice they are unaffected and then I become emotionally closed off because they aren't into me. Then almost like clockwork, they will fall in love a month or two later. It's aggravating.. but hey, maybe I'm seeking out emotionally closed off women without realizing it. SOB.

[Redhead14]

Well good discussions.

 

I'm not choosing to make myself emotionally unavailable, it's that I show some vulnerable side to me and I can see a girl pull back or straight rejects it/me and in the worst case, made me ashamed that I felt some certain way. In response, I protect myself instinctually and withdraw. Then what happens are those girls start reaching out after I've withdrawn and it's too late.

 

I don't say anything ridiculous as I love you within a week (and have never felt it that fast). It's thing like talking about a possible relationship in the future, that you think they'd make a good partner, or just commenting that you find something special about them. I'm very physically affectionate- Once I've started a physical relationship with a girl, I will usually greet her with a nice embrace and a kiss when she comes over and when she leaves. I've noticed girls shy away from this.

 

Once that happens, I stop doing it or never say anything like that again. I notice they are unaffected and then I become emotionally closed off because they aren't into me. Then almost like clockwork, they will fall in love a month or two later. It's aggravating.. but hey, maybe I'm seeking out emotionally closed off women without realizing it. SOB.

 

I protect myself instinctually and withdraw -- You are aware of this behavior and, therefore, it is a conscious effort . . .

 

maybe I'm seeking out emotionally closed off women without realizing it -- Like I said, above, this draws 2 types of women: 1) women who are themselves, emotionally unavailable and 2) . . .

 

Lighten up . . .

[Myragal]

Does anyone else feel like that to get a woman to love you, you need to be emotionally unavailable?

 

In all of my relationships, I start off vulnerable a little to the girls and it seems like they don't appreciate it or find it attractive. I feel like they just aren't that into me or are going to hurt me by finding someone else.

 

At some point I wall up and close off emotionally to prepare for it. Then it seems the women fall in love with me. The problem is that there's no going back for me, or never has been up until this point in my life.

 

I find it disappointing, to get the thing I want most, I basically have to reject it.

 

No. You need to associate with mature individuals.

[WomenWubber]

Available or not you can still get women.

 

Being available may get you a long lasting and fulfilling relationship with said woman, though.

[LoveRefreshed]

I protect myself instinctually and withdraw -- You are aware of this behavior and, therefore, it is a conscious effort . . .

 

maybe I'm seeking out emotionally closed off women without realizing it -- Like I said, above, this draws 2 types of women: 1) women who are themselves, emotionally unavailable and 2) . . .

 

Lighten up . . .

 

I'm aware in hindsight.

 

Maybe I should lighten up, but also, they always ALWAYS fall in love after. I must be doing something right. Still waiting to get dumped. I just wished I wasn't closed off by the time they are emotionally involved.

[Redhead14]

I'm aware in hindsight.

 

Maybe I should lighten up, but also, they always ALWAYS fall in love after. I must be doing something right. Still waiting to get dumped. I just wished I wasn't closed off by the time they are emotionally involved.

 

You are missing something here . . . if they are falling in love with you after you close yourself off . . . it's them, not you. It's telling you that they are emotionally closed off or have some other "issue" because it attracts them more.

 

Or, when you were being a little more emotionally available, some of them were attracted to that already and when you sensed it from them, you get scared and then shut off, but their wheels were set in motion. They've had a glimpse and want to see more perhaps in some cases. It's not that they fell more in love with you because you closed off, they were already in love with what they had seen up to that point . . .

[kismetkismet]

How old are you and how old are the girls you're dating? I remember in my early 20s a lot of my friends were roped in by the emotionally unavailable guys who acted superior and indifferent. I think it comes from insecurity and not knowing what they want from a boyfriend or from life. When you act available their mind goes "oh... maybe i could do better?" or at least that they don't have to put any work in. But when you turn away you become a prize.

 

Don't give into those games. Find a girl who knows what she wants and is ready to be in a relationship. Personally I have never been attracted to the aloof type and always found the aloof/arrogant types incredibly unattractive. I would usually date guys that were less 'cool' (by young and dumb standards) and more open and honest. Ironically, this made those types - the aloof and arrogant cool guys - that my friends were after pursue me rather than them... Ridiculous the whole thing haha.

[Oregon_Dude]

I totally agree, OP. As soon as you starting "being yourself" and feeling comfortable enough to say anything, they immediately start feeling unattracted and begin to think they do could better.

 

Again, subconsciously, most of us do not want to be with someone who wants to be with us. We are self-loathing and want to snag someone out of our league. Tell a woman you like her? She's won and her interest drops.

 

I just made this mistake yesterday; will see how she starts to treat me.

[Michelle ma Belle]

How old are you and how old are the girls you're dating? I remember in my early 20s a lot of my friends were roped in by the emotionally unavailable guys who acted superior and indifferent. I think it comes from insecurity and not knowing what they want from a boyfriend or from life. When you act available their mind goes "oh... maybe i could do better?" or at least that they don't have to put any work in. But when you turn away you become a prize.

 

Don't give into those games. Find a girl who knows what she wants and is ready to be in a relationship. Personally I have never been attracted to the aloof type and always found the aloof/arrogant types incredibly unattractive. I would usually date guys that were less 'cool' (by young and dumb standards) and more open and honest. Ironically, this made those types - the aloof and arrogant cool guys - that my friends were after pursue me rather than them... Ridiculous the whole thing haha.

 

Yep. I think I even thought along these lines when I was a teenager in high school!

 

As a woman in her forties, I no longer think in those terms nor play by those rules. These days, I'm very attracted to authenticity even if it means appearing odd or different. Those are the most interesting people to know, male or female, romantic or platonic.

[Wewon]

Here has been my experiences with the subject:

 

When I was younger I noticed the same thing as the OP, transparency/vulnerability seemed like kryptonite for women so I started pulling back, acting indifferent and aloof...BOOM, my dating life turned around. Unfortunately, it also seemed to attract women that were shallow and had fairly weird expectations of men. Not exactly long term mate material.

 

I eventually took the attitude that I would rather screen out women like this if it meant that I got a better quality of women.

 

A woman once said to me that she thought that she always wanted a guy that was vulnerable then one day, her boyfriend was under tremendous stress and made the mistake of emoting to her about his concerns. She basically felt that noone was at the helm anymore and it freaked her out. I think that thing that frustrates guys is not what women want, but the fact that they don't seem comfortable admitting it, which causes all kinds of confusion.

 

Back to me, you will do better with women that have lived life and can take care of themselves. Until a woman has gone through that, she will likely retain a very self-serving view of men and how to relate to them.

[Miss Peach]

For me I stop seeing anyone who's not emotionally available. I want a guy with a backbone and his own life. But I also want a guy who can let me in over time. I don't want a guy tied to me at the hip - especially in the beginning.

 

I am attractive, educated, strong, have my life together, etc. I have guys lining up to date me and checking to see if I'm available. I don't bother wasting my time on the guys who act like they aren't into me or don't realize what a great catch I am.