First Fight

[VengeanceGuidesMe]

I just had my first argument with my girlfriend of 3 months.

 

She has a long time friend whom she recently dated but broke up with the first week we met. She has been friends with him for over 10 years and dated him sort of out of pity, or so is it from my understanding.

 

She had a concert, and he comes to all of them apparently, and he came to this one. It was my first, and after the show, I felt extremely ignored as she barely talked to me. Just to her parents and that she was going to go hang out with her ex (He came the night before, met me, we hung out, I stayed the night, AND it was extremely evident that he was uncomfortable by me) and we had already spoken about it.

 

However, it was the lack of excitement for me showing up at her first show, hardly talking to me afterwards, and not even inviting me to part of their 'catching' up. They were in an LDR when I met her, a week later she was single and interested in me.

 

I felt hurt and kind of exploded on her later over text that it was rude to ignore me to hang out with her ex boyfriend and how I felt insignificant. I was a little spiteful and told her I was going to go hang out with my ex. We met in person the next day and talked about it more and I sort of raised my voice. Told her that my emotions should come first before any other man, if I want a kiss after her performance so I'm not insecure about her leaving with another man, it should take priority over not kissing me to not hurt his feelings? I told her that I'm uncomfortable by her friend who is obviously still in love with her and that if he wants to be her friend, then he needs to deal with me being her boyfriend. He needs to be my friend too and that I should be invited to hanging out with them even if it makes him uncomfortable.

 

She said all of this was her awkwardness in the situation, and that she didn't mean to hurt me. That I will come first and that I should have communicated at the end of the show that I needed to talk to her and tell her what I wanted. That she is now looking at me differently (do I seem insecure or jealous now? probably, sob) and she is shaken up.

 

I don't know what that means, but I have this sadness in my stomach that it won't go back to how it was, that she'll break up with me, or that the only take away here is what I did wrong. I mean shouldn't she take extra care when trying to develop a relationship with me while included this long term 'friend'? I use 'friend' because for her, she sees him that way, but he is a pinning fool who over stepped his bounds in a couple regards that made it bothersome to me.

 

I'm frustrated as **** and want to just say **** it and move on. But I do really like her and want to overcome it, but I am also annoyed that she know feels more hurt or has twisted this some way to me being the complete bad guy. It was my reaction to a problem that I think is what I did wrong. I could have kept my cool better, but I didn't.

 

Any advice LS?

Edited November 24, 2015 by VengeanceGuidesMe

[acrosstheuniverse]

The only thing you did wrong was approach this in an aggressive way (raising your voice, demanding she give you a kiss etc.). Rather than tell her your feelings calmly and give her chance to adjust her actions to accommodate the fact that she's now in a relationship, you went 0-60 in five seconds and basically tried to lay the law down. If I were her and you'd spoken about how you need to always be invited when she sees this guy, he needs to be your friend, you demand her to kiss you in front of him, and raised your voice, I'd worry you had an anger problem or controlling tendencies. You're totally, completely within your right to expect those things, it's blatantly inappropriate for her to be seeing this ex when he's obviously unhappy about you and the fact she won't kiss you around him is the biggest red flag that there are lingering feelings on either side there could possibly be.

 

But, you handled it aggressively and you'll never know now whether she's going to change her behaviours because she cares about you, realises she's in the wrong and wants to protect your new relationship, or whether it's because you frightened her into knowing she had no other options.

 

The better way to handle this would have been to not get into it immediately, give yourself time to calm down, then wait to speak to her in person about this. Calmly explain that while you're together, it's not appropriate for her to be hanging out with this ex alone when there are clearly feelings left, and then leave it at that. See what she says. See if she's willing to prioritise the relationship, whether she has any introspection at all that this isn't okay or whether she's too selfish to see. Either way, her response would have told you a lot about how she views you, and him, and how much she wants your relationship to continue. This way you've backed her into a corner, and made yourself look like an aggressive jerk.

 

The bit about how she's seeing you differently now really stood out to me though, just how aggressive did you get with her for her to be seeing that? When you said you were going to go hang out with your ex, along with the outburst, and the demands, sorry man but all of that from a new partner would have me running for the hills, unless I'd done something like actually cheat. Everyone has different boundaries, in a new relationship it's the time to be talking them out, working out what each person is comfortable with, not blowing your top. You do come across insecure too because your response told her you're extremely threatened by him.

 

Just being honest.

[VengeanceGuidesMe]

The only thing you did wrong was approach this in an aggressive way (raising your voice, demanding she give you a kiss etc.). Rather than tell her your feelings calmly and give her chance to adjust her actions to accommodate the fact that she's now in a relationship, you went 0-60 in five seconds and basically tried to lay the law down. If I were her and you'd spoken about how you need to always be invited when she sees this guy, he needs to be your friend, you demand her to kiss you in front of him, and raised your voice, I'd worry you had an anger problem or controlling tendencies. You're totally, completely within your right to expect those things, it's blatantly inappropriate for her to be seeing this ex when he's obviously unhappy about you and the fact she won't kiss you around him is the biggest red flag that there are lingering feelings on either side there could possibly be.

 

But, you handled it aggressively and you'll never know now whether she's going to change her behaviours because she cares about you, realises she's in the wrong and wants to protect your new relationship, or whether it's because you frightened her into knowing she had no other options.

 

The better way to handle this would have been to not get into it immediately, give yourself time to calm down, then wait to speak to her in person about this. Calmly explain that while you're together, it's not appropriate for her to be hanging out with this ex alone when there are clearly feelings left, and then leave it at that. See what she says. See if she's willing to prioritise the relationship, whether she has any introspection at all that this isn't okay or whether she's too selfish to see. Either way, her response would have told you a lot about how she views you, and him, and how much she wants your relationship to continue. This way you've backed her into a corner, and made yourself look like an aggressive jerk.

 

The bit about how she's seeing you differently now really stood out to me though, just how aggressive did you get with her for her to be seeing that? When you said you were going to go hang out with your ex, along with the outburst, and the demands, sorry man but all of that from a new partner would have me running for the hills, unless I'd done something like actually cheat. Everyone has different boundaries, in a new relationship it's the time to be talking them out, working out what each person is comfortable with, not blowing your top. You do come across insecure too because your response told her you're extremely threatened by him.

 

Just being honest.

 

She called me out on being spiteful. Which I told her right away she was right and apologized for it. I didn't call her any names. I didn't yell. I did cry a little.

 

I told her that I felt like she was more excited that her ex came to her show again than she was for me to come my first time. That I felt like his behavior was inappropriate (they had met prior to me meeting him one other weekend, I fully trust her not to cheat) but he lied to me, commenting nothing happened but in reality I know he tried to kiss her, she gave him the cheek and corrected his behavior. Then right in front of me, he set on the couch next to her, and put his hand on her leg, she slide away and started snuggling with me immediately, and I didn't say anything because I'm trying to let her handle it. I told her that if it were to happen again, I'd tell him he's not respecting our boundaries and he needs to start.

 

I can see what you mean though, about pushing her in a corner, but I didn't demand a kiss. What I said was something along the lines that she could have acted like she cared I came. That when I chased her down for a hug, she seemed to shy away from the kiss. She said it was because 'she didn't want to hurt his feelings'. So I told her that it doesn't matter, she hurt mine, and my emotions should come first before his. She is very kind and gentle and doesn't want to hurt anyone. That's when I said he needs to learn to deal with me being her boyfriend and that if she wants me to be okay with being his friend and he is truly a friend, then it should be natural that he becomes my friend too.

 

We had talked about moving in together, and that regardless, when I get my own place, I'll invite him up to have dinner with us and I will try to get to know him. He's also inappropriately buying her things, but she says he does that with everyone and he just gives people **** to give them ****. I don't know, he seems to be pinning.

 

On to the ex thing, I am in a difficult situation living with my ex, was inbetween jobs, but I finally got that sorted out and started a good paying one and am planning on moving out this month. She knows that. However, I want away from my ex and nothing to do with her. She wants her ex as a friend. Who told her in front of me that he wanted to give her a back rub, and I told her I was highly uncomfortable by it, but if it was purely platonic, then I'd trust her. So my spiteful question came when I was at home with me Ex, I asked her what our back rub boundaries were. That was it.

 

So while I did get aggressive, it was more my inappropriate reaction to being hurt and inability to communicate my issues properly with her being so damn friendly with her ex. That or she is going to think I'm not trusting or insecure because I let her friendship with her ex bother me.

 

I hope I can grow from this with her. She didn't break up with me or anything, but I do want to resolve this so it doesn't continue to fester. She is adamant that I won't tell her who her friends will be (and I have never done this in any relationship or this one, just a point to her, maybe an ex has done it) so I won't do it. However, I will tell her when I'm uncomfortable by a friend or certain thing.

 

When I look back on it, I think it all stems from a lack of communication. Another thing that added insult to my injury was that her parents where there, and her mom mentioned to her infront of me that it wasn't nice to not invite me, and she just said "oh we talked about it" and that was all she said to me before I basically followed her out and was like well thanks for the show and gave her a hug and a kiss and when I turned to walk to my car alone, her parents basically started telling me how this dude has pined for 15 years for her, and that she did ignore me. It also hurt me to have to face her parents and tell them "Well, I trust her and if she doesn't anything that hurts me, I guess she can have him, and not me" and then I walked away. It sucked.

[acrosstheuniverse]

This has disaster written all over it. I didn't realise you still lived with your ex, to be fair that changes quite a lot. It's a bit much to be insisting that she has boundaries with her ex when you're still sharing a house, a bathroom and a lounge with yours. I know things can be tough financially when a relationship ends but most people don't start dating someone new until those ties are severed, it's just not fair on anyone involved.

 

That aside, you're trying too hard to get this guy on side and it's just rewarding your girlfriend and his behaviour, they get to carry on with whatever it is that's going on between them while you're saying that you plan to invite him to dinner and become his friend. This is after he tried to kiss your girlfriend, puts his hand on her leg, and tries to give her a back rub around you!? I have plenty of male friends and let me tell you, not ONCE has any of them given me a backrub. There's no such thing as a platonic backrub between opposite gender friends!

 

If a guy 'friend' or ex tried to kiss me, and I had a new relationship, I'd no longer see that person anymore as they clearly don't respect me, or my relationship. The fact your girlfriend still wants to see him really does speak volumes.

 

But then we're back to the fact that you live with your ex, and even if you're not intimate anymore, your girlfriend still has to sit with the knowledge that every day, every night, you're going home to her.

 

Which is why I think this whole thing is way more hassle than it's worth. Call it off until you have your own place, then see how things are with her and maybe you can rekindle things, but you have to accept that you may not end up back together as it's not fair to ask her to wait and she'd be a fool to do so.

 

To sum up: you live with your ex, and your girlfriend continues to see her ex who clearly still wants to be with her, and lets him buy her material goods to boot. And neither of you can communicate about these issues without getting upset, crying, angry, aggressive. Even her PARENTS are telling you that her ex still wants her and she disrespected you. If that isn't a big enough kick up the arse to let this go and move on to something more healthy I don't know what is.

[trippi1432]

Currently going through something similar myself with my BF of 4 months. My own personal assessment of my situation was very much like yours, in a relationship, no one should make you play "second fiddle" to a past relationship partner.

 

I totally agree that the LDR guy (previous BF) is overstepping his boundaries, the worst part I see in your situation is that she is allowing it, and not considering your feelings. Based on what you wrote, I feel you stated your position perfectly and you don't deserve having that twisted around on you.

 

If you still want the relationship make sure you assess if what is happening is what you can live with for the long term. People don't change because you want them to, or because you love them more. You typically find out exactly what a person is about after the 3 month period of a new relationship.

 

In my case/situation, I decided to walk away. If someone really loves you, they put your feelings first.

 

** Edited to add that reading the rest of the posts now, I have to agree with AcrosstheUniverse on her post. **

Edited November 24, 2015 by trippi1432

[VengeanceGuidesMe]

Thanks guys for pointing out that I'm not crazy.

 

First let me address the ex issue- I have no support from anyone in my life. I have zero family in this area. It's either I live with her or I would have to had moved 3 states away to stay with my sister. Financially, I was inbetween jobs and my ex was not my ex when I get into this situation. We broke up and I met this new girl out of chance.

 

We weren't even trying to start anything as I was going to be moving again to a new country, but this thing happened then that, and I wound up with a great job in this city. We started as FBuddies, but we found we really liked each other.

 

She was in a poly relationship before and hates jealousy. She isn't jealous at all, and I've thanked her tons with how she was handling me living with my ex. It bothers me more than her. Because of a lot of our differences, She communicates very well. I do too, until I've been emotionally hurt. Then my natural instinct to bottle it up and then to shut that person out of my life kicks in OR I do what I'm not good at and try to handle my emotions. I am the one with bad communication, apparently, not her.

 

She would skip the backrub if I asked her, it was more that I'm trying to not be all jealous about it. We talked some and I'm going to meet her in person again today, so we can resolve it completely. I just want to keep my cool and tell her how I feel uncomfortable about certain aspects of her ex. I do agree that I'm going out of my way to accept him, but I really do feel bad for him, but I want to point out that any friendship with him is a farce if he is harboring hopefully unrequited emotions for her.

 

How can I explain that he bothers me without coming off insecure or jealous? I mean shouldn't I just know I'm better than him (I mean, I KNOW I AM) but it doesn't change the fact that I find his overstepping boundaries a problem for me.

[Mrin]

Ok I am not going to get into all the complications and such. Whether it is with this woman or another, I'll give you this one kernel of truth that I've learned the hard way: one of the best things you can establish in any relationship is how to "fight" correctly. Every relationships with have its disagreements and often they lead to fights of some sort. A few things I've found that work:

 

1. Refrain, at all costs, from blowing your stack: Rarely does anything good every come of it. If you can't stay composed, fight another time. As soon as you break your composure, your ability to reason or accept reason pretty much goes out the window. You see, at that point you are operating out of your limbic brain - which is essentially fight or flight. There is little or no ability to reason in this state. So if you find yourself in that state, step away and cool down. Same goes for her. If you see her in that state, give her some space to cool down. Otherwise, you might as well be talking to a rock.

 

2. Fight in person, or if you can't, on the phone: Fighting by email or text is like trying to do surgery blind folded and with oven mitts on. It is pointless.

 

3. Don't focus on right or wrong in a fight: That's pointless as well. Focus on communicating your issue or problem, the impact of that problem and how you would like to have it resolved. Or vice versa. Don't try to be "right" or her "wrong". Try to be heard and understood.

 

Example (do this): She didn't spend that much time with you after her concert, chose to spend more time with her ex and that made you feel hurt and like crap. You would have preferred she not spend time with her ex or at least invited you to join as a couple. In the future, that's what you want - to be included.

 

Example (do NOT do this): She insensitive and disrespectful for hanging out with her ex and ignoring you.

 

You see how the second one is all about her being wrong?

 

4. Clean the glass/Clean it up: It is really important that both parties feel like the issue has been fully cleaned up. That you've both had your say, are both heard and understood. You may not have consensus but you both feel fully self expressed. Fighting is kinda like water on a glass shower door. If you squeegee it clean, there will be no spots. If you don't, over time water spots will accumulate and before long you won't be able to see through the glass. That's just like fighting.

 

5. Always want the other person to "win": This is really hard to grasp but bear with me. When you fight, you should do so with the intention of making sure the other person "wins". Not wins the fight. But wins in terms of coming away with a better understanding and better prepared to deal with the situation next time. Them "winning" is your way of "winning the fight".

 

Best of luck!

[acrosstheuniverse]

Thanks guys for pointing out that I'm not crazy.

 

First let me address the ex issue- I have no support from anyone in my life. I have zero family in this area. It's either I live with her or I would have to had moved 3 states away to stay with my sister. Financially, I was inbetween jobs and my ex was not my ex when I get into this situation. We broke up and I met this new girl out of chance.

 

We weren't even trying to start anything as I was going to be moving again to a new country, but this thing happened then that, and I wound up with a great job in this city. We started as FBuddies, but we found we really liked each other.

 

She was in a poly relationship before and hates jealousy. She isn't jealous at all, and I've thanked her tons with how she was handling me living with my ex. It bothers me more than her. Because of a lot of our differences, She communicates very well. I do too, until I've been emotionally hurt. Then my natural instinct to bottle it up and then to shut that person out of my life kicks in OR I do what I'm not good at and try to handle my emotions. I am the one with bad communication, apparently, not her.

 

She would skip the backrub if I asked her, it was more that I'm trying to not be all jealous about it. We talked some and I'm going to meet her in person again today, so we can resolve it completely. I just want to keep my cool and tell her how I feel uncomfortable about certain aspects of her ex. I do agree that I'm going out of my way to accept him, but I really do feel bad for him, but I want to point out that any friendship with him is a farce if he is harboring hopefully unrequited emotions for her.

 

How can I explain that he bothers me without coming off insecure or jealous? I mean shouldn't I just know I'm better than him (I mean, I KNOW I AM) but it doesn't change the fact that I find his overstepping boundaries a problem for me.

 

You shouldn't have to ask her to skip on the backrub from an ex that recently tried to kiss her and is showering her with material gifts.

 

Sounds like because of how cool she is with you living with your ex, you feel like you have to be similarly understanding and non-jealous in return, is that right?

 

Just because you feel sorry for the guy doesn't mean you should be trying to buddy up to him and include him in your social circle. The guy would have your girlfriend back as his girlfriend and shut you out of the back door in a heartbeat. He's a danger to your relationship, trying to befriend him just makes you look hopelessly beta and unattractive.

 

It seems to me that he's overstepped boundaries to such a degree that 'overstepping boundaries' isn't the issue anymore, their entire relationship is. There comes a point where you stop trying to control how two people interact and put your foot down and expect them not to interact anymore because they've lost that trust.

 

Just tell her that due to his behaviour he clearly sees her as more than a friend and it's not appropriate for her to be seeing him anymore while she's in a relationship with you. And like I said before, leave it at that. She can choose to keep seeing him and end your relationship, or she can take your concerns seriously (and I can't think of a person on this board who would argue that it's okay for her to be seeing this guy from what you've told us, other than the complication of you being in the same house as your ex) and fix this. It's asserting your boundaries, it's putting your foot down and saying what you will and won't accept in the relationship, that's a positive, attractive thing. If it was 'I don't want you hanging with any male friends' then that's a problem, but this is one specific person who is a snake in the grass and who has disrespected you and your relationship blatantly, right in front of you, it's the right thing to put your foot down over this.

[xUnknown]

I would end it with her. Keep your dignity and be the strong one here. Make her respect you by ending it with her by respecting yourself.

 

Tell her "I'm sorry xxx, but I can't be in a relationship with you. I felt belittled in front of your family and your ex. I cannot be in a relationship with someone who says they care about me, then makes me feel this way. I apologize again for raising my voice to you, that was not what I should have done."

 

Something short and sweet like that.

 

She isn't respecting you and honestly, I would be like "**** you" if my gf pulled that move with me at the concert. Her parents were 100% right about how rude that was, and honestly, I bet they wouldn't bat an eye if you left. I'm sure they'll have a nice talk with her after you end it with her so she understands where she screws up.

 

But all in all, respect yourself and be with someone who respects you. This girl isn't it.

[VengeanceGuidesMe]

This is where I see myself now. I am going to see her today, and I'm going to apologize solely for my communication (lack of) and how I didn't react calmly. Honestly, I think that is her only problem, and I think the second aspect is that I looked jealous. She hates jealousy at all costs (coming from an open marriage, they had a lot of struggles with this) and I need to have kept my calm and discussed my issue isn't jealousy, but his disrespect for me and our relationship. Then I need to see if she can manage my emotions in the future with him being a 'friend'.

 

Then I'm going to explain my problems with the ex and their boundaries. While I won't restrict their friendship, I will tell her what makes me uncomfortable and ask her upfront if she okay with the new boundaries I am comfortable with (no visits, no sharing of lodging unless I'm there, no backrubs, and no more placating his feelings). If she can't, I'll walk.

 

I can not say "Don't hang out with him!" because I don't believe it. I don't believe in that, and in this context, I am even less concerned because I am better than this dude in all cases. It's more about his disrespect for me that is a problem and the fact she didn't do her job and ensure I felt comfortable with it always.

 

However, thanks everyone for your advices.

[trippi1432]

OP, you stated that she was in a poly relationship before. Is that your background as well? You seem to be trying too hard to be this guy's buddy too....something tells me that this hasn't been your "cup of tea" in the past but you are open to it or are you just trying to be who she wants based on her relationship style?

 

See....that won't work if it goes against your grain and you are trying too hard to change yourself to make that lifestyle work. Taking this totally to a poly relationship mentality, the "LDR friend" may accept this relationship style, but rejects you as a 3rd party to the "party". Just wondering....what is driving the need for acceptance in this situation?

[Wewon]

I agree, that although you had the "higher ground" your approach left a lot to be desired.

 

I'm seeing this a lot online, the tendency for people to not have good crisp boundaries in their relationships and the problems that it causes. Your girlfriend should have established a better boundary with her ex and enforced it. The way she handled it did come across as wish-washy and somewhat non-committed to you.

 

If you have approached it the next day with a cooler head your message would have come across much better, instead, she probably is focusing in on the 'insecure and jealous' packaging instead of the true message that was delivered.

[VengeanceGuidesMe]

OP, you stated that she was in a poly relationship before. Is that your background as well? You seem to be trying too hard to be this guy's buddy too....something tells me that this hasn't been your "cup of tea" in the past but you are open to it or are you just trying to be who she wants based on her relationship style?

 

See....that won't work if it goes against your grain and you are trying too hard to change yourself to make that lifestyle work. Taking this totally to a poly relationship mentality, the "LDR friend" may accept this relationship style, but rejects you as a 3rd party to the "party". Just wondering....what is driving the need for acceptance in this situation?

 

 

Ever read Stranger in a Strange Land? That is something I could believe.

Her life has been a open and swinger marriage and a poly relationship. She 'doesn't understand jealousy' but said she could be monogamous without fail. At the end of her marriage, her ex husband forbade her from seeing a couple she was with but wasn't willing to give up any of his ladies. She has a huge issue with telling someone who can be in their lives. She can manage boundaries with them (sex, no sex, etc) and her husband, but never telling someone who can be a friend.

 

 

If I were to say "Don't be his friend...", I would push her away completely. So I don't want to do that. There's a saying.. Keep your friend close.... I'd rather be able to observe and discern carefully what is true and what are words.

 

 

I agree, that although you had the "higher ground" your approach left a lot to be desired.

 

I'm seeing this a lot online, the tendency for people to not have good crisp boundaries in their relationships and the problems that it causes. Your girlfriend should have established a better boundary with her ex and enforced it. The way she handled it did come across as wish-washy and somewhat non-committed to you.

 

If you have approached it the next day with a cooler head your message would have come across much better, instead, she probably is focusing in on the 'insecure and jealous' packaging instead of the true message that was delivered.

 

We talked yesterday again in person. I think you're whole heartedly correct. We talked about the perceived jealousy versus establishing healthy boundaries for our relationship. How I felt we had established boundaries, and this guy doesn't respect them so I no longer trust him and because of that, I expect harsher boundaries and if he crosses them again, she needs to vocalize something or I will.

 

 

As for the back rub things- I'm still working that one out in my head. I mean I can imagine myself giving a friend a back rub and not even being a problem. I think I have issues with non-platonic backrubs. Ones where there's sexual attraction, desires, or crushes from one or both people. In that case, it makes me uneasy. I do trust her to follow our boundaries and tell me if she does not. I believe she is that kind of person. I just think we're going to have a hard time establishing boundaries. We're fundamentally different on poly/monogamous. We see the reasonings behind the both but all of our emotions come out based on opposite ones. Meh, relationships are relationships, I'm going to give it a shot still.

 

 

As for who asked if I am trying to be cool about the ex because she is about mine. I think you're hitting a nail on the head. That is one aspect, but also because I have this since of trust with her. I trust her not to sleep with him. I just don't think people control emotions as well as they'd like, and I also don't want her to be in a strange situation where she'd have to break his heart or mine. She said she'd always break his, she did already, and I should trust in her love for me. I think she's right there. I should trust in her love for me. I have put other girls in that same spot. Then told them to trust me, and even got defensive when they didn't. I think fundamentally it's the right thing to do. I am just weary with this guy, but we set good boundaries with him last night. If he buys her jewelry, anything over 30 bucks, tries to romance her, get handsy, then she shuts it down and all three of us talk about it.

[Glitters]

In short , imo, it's she who needs to set boundaries, not you ! If you have to tell her, then I guess, she is not worth it. Period

[kendahke]

 

On to the ex thing, I am in a difficult situation living with my ex, .

 

I was seeing your side of things until I read this. You have no room to talk about situations involving ex's when you go home to yours every day.

 

Doesn't matter why. What matters is: you do.

 

I don't think either one of you is in the position to lecture the other on your ex's. You both behaved badly. Seems like your representatives have been dismissed...

[VengeanceGuidesMe]

I was seeing your side of things until I read this. You have no room to talk about situations involving ex's when you go home to yours every day.

 

Doesn't matter why. What matters is: you do.

 

I don't think either one of you is in the position to lecture the other on your ex's. You both behaved badly. Seems like your representatives have been dismissed...

 

So in three days, I can come back? I will be out in three days with my own place and nothing to do with my exes. She will have to see zero women I have ****ed because I don't keep in touch with them. I don't need them in my life. I do think a lot of this did result from our boundaries.

 

About boundary setting Glitters- I should have been more upfront when we started dating. It's just weird how it happened. We were **** buddies and then we both decided to give it a shot, but we had a lot of conversations in between all of that about who we were as people. I had admitted to being jealous once a girl is my partner. She told me before that she doesn't have good boundaries because her only three relationships were open relationships. We both signed on for opposites I guess, I'm just looking for ways to navigate it.

 

I know people say that people don't change, but I think people change if they want it. I think we like each other enough to keep trying to find our balance.

 

I'm just not super good at understanding my emotions for a bit. I come here, I read things, I talk to others for a few days before I fully grasp my emotional response to things. I think there were some good tips here for me that helps, Mrin's had a few bits that I didn't already know, etc... So thanks everyone for the insights and discussion.

[kendahke]

I would proceed with caution with her.

 

In the meantime, work on understanding your emotions because they're going to be with you for a long, long time. Best to get them understood sooner than later.

[trippi1432]

Ever read Stranger in a Strange Land? That is something I could believe.

Her life has been a open and swinger marriage and a poly relationship. She 'doesn't understand jealousy' but said she could be monogamous without fail. At the end of her marriage, her ex husband forbade her from seeing a couple she was with but wasn't willing to give up any of his ladies. She has a huge issue with telling someone who can be in their lives. She can manage boundaries with them (sex, no sex, etc) and her husband, but never telling someone who can be a friend.

 

I've never read that book, but wiki'd the plot to get an understanding of how it might relate to your situation. A few things that you have stated about her prior relationships and how she approaches sex and relationships, based on an open/swinger marriage and poly relationships, I agree that she would not understand jealousy in a mate. I've never lived that lifestyle (and I know I would not thrive in that type of lifestyle), but I've been approached by men and women who live that lifestyle and of course I had to ask questions on how it was valuable or detracted from their marriages/relationships. Mixed bag so to speak really on the responses.

 

 

If I were to say "Don't be his friend...", I would push her away completely. So I don't want to do that. There's a saying.. Keep your friend close.... I'd rather be able to observe and discern carefully what is true and what are words.

 

I would say from the synopsis of that book (and I didn't read it or gain knowledge from it) I guess I would question if that is how you see yourself today trying to manage new relationships. You've been out of touch with the going's on in the world of relationships today and have met someone with this new lifestyle that is strange to you, but you want to be open to. However, this other man makes you nervous (instinct leftover from a traditional mindset) but you know that forbidding her anything is not what living in an open/swinger/poly lifestyle is (open mindset).

 

 

We talked yesterday again in person. I think you're whole heartedly correct. We talked about the perceived jealousy versus establishing healthy boundaries for our relationship. How I felt we had established boundaries, and this guy doesn't respect them so I no longer trust him and because of that, I expect harsher boundaries and if he crosses them again, she needs to vocalize something or I will.

 

As for the back rub things- I'm still working that one out in my head. I mean I can imagine myself giving a friend a back rub and not even being a problem. I think I have issues with non-platonic backrubs. Ones where there's sexual attraction, desires, or crushes from one or both people. In that case, it makes me uneasy. I do trust her to follow our boundaries and tell me if she does not. I believe she is that kind of person. I just think we're going to have a hard time establishing boundaries. We're fundamentally different on poly/monogamous. We see the reasonings behind the both but all of our emotions come out based on opposite ones. Meh, relationships are relationships, I'm going to give it a shot still.

 

 

As for who asked if I am trying to be cool about the ex because she is about mine. I think you're hitting a nail on the head. That is one aspect, but also because I have this since of trust with her. I trust her not to sleep with him. I just don't think people control emotions as well as they'd like, and I also don't want her to be in a strange situation where she'd have to break his heart or mine. She said she'd always break his, she did already, and I should trust in her love for me. I think she's right there. I should trust in her love for me. I have put other girls in that same spot. Then told them to trust me, and even got defensive when they didn't. I think fundamentally it's the right thing to do. I am just weary with this guy, but we set good boundaries with him last night. If he buys her jewelry, anything over 30 bucks, tries to romance her, get handsy, then she shuts it down and all three of us talk about it.

 

I applaud the fact that you can speak openly with her about this topic of this one guy who does seem to have boundary issues; however, his role before was of a lover (LDR).....would that be a poly relationship lover previously? If so, I think I can understand that his mindset is not off the table of having sex with his prior swinger friend. If not, then perhaps his mindset is that of a traditional relationship and he is willing to court her and finds that you are just another one of her swinger friend or maybe views you as competition?

 

The current role you are in with your ex and managing that landscape I don't believe has any impact on tit for tat or you have no rights in working through the current situation with your girlfriend. What I do feel has an impact is coming out of a traditional relationship (I'm assuming that the ex and you had a traditional relationship) and trying to "manage" in a fundamentally different relationship landscape than you have ever been in or exposed to before. (Something that was apparent in that book you noted).

 

It's a slippery slope in open/swinger/poly relationships to try and mix traditional values. Nothing is black and white, it is trying to manage a lot of, what could be, ambiguity. If she can stick to those boundaries and you can be comfortable that this guy is still around and she has promised you monogamy, maybe it will work. I should have asked from the beginning when you mentioned her prior relationship status if she has given up that lifestyle, my apologies.....has she?

 

** A note to add, I read the part where you were previously FWB's and decided to take that to the next level of a relationship. **

Edited November 25, 2015 by trippi1432

[VengeanceGuidesMe]

I've never read that book, but wiki'd the plot to get an understanding of how it might relate to your situation. A few things that you have stated about her prior relationships and how she approaches sex and relationships, based on an open/swinger marriage and poly relationships, I agree that she would not understand jealousy in a mate. I've never lived that lifestyle (and I know I would not thrive in that type of lifestyle), but I've been approached by men and women who live that lifestyle and of course I had to ask questions on how it was valuable or detracted from their marriages/relationships. Mixed bag so to speak really on the responses.

 

 

 

 

I would say from the synopsis of that book (and I didn't read it or gain knowledge from it) I guess I would question if that is how you see yourself today trying to manage new relationships. You've been out of touch with the going's on in the world of relationships today and have met someone with this new lifestyle that is strange to you, but you want to be open to. However, this other man makes you nervous (instinct leftover from a traditional mindset) but you know that forbidding her anything is not what living in an open/swinger/poly lifestyle is (open mindset).

 

 

 

 

I applaud the fact that you can speak openly with her about this topic of this one guy who does seem to have boundary issues; however, his role before was of a lover (LDR).....would that be a poly relationship lover previously? If so, I think I can understand that his mindset is not off the table of having sex with his prior swinger friend. If not, then perhaps his mindset is that of a traditional relationship and he is willing to court her and finds that you are just another one of her swinger friend or maybe views you as competition?

 

The current role you are in with your ex and managing that landscape I don't believe has any impact on tit for tat or you have no rights in working through the current situation with your girlfriend. What I do feel has an impact is coming out of a traditional relationship (I'm assuming that the ex and you had a traditional relationship) and trying to "manage" in a fundamentally different relationship landscape than you have ever been in or exposed to before. (Something that was apparent in that book you noted).

 

It's a slippery slope in open/swinger/poly relationships to try and mix traditional values. Nothing is black and white, it is trying to manage a lot of, what could be, ambiguity. If she can stick to those boundaries and you can be comfortable that this guy is still around and she has promised you monogamy, maybe it will work. I should have asked from the beginning when you mentioned her prior relationship status if she has given up that lifestyle, my apologies.....has she?

 

** A note to add, I read the part where you were previously FWB's and decided to take that to the next level of a relationship. **

 

Thank you for your thoughts on this. I believe that poly relationships are possible and so is that way of thinking. I just am highly uncomfortable about it when I think of my emotions and my partner with someone else. I am coming from a conservative/traditional relationship in which my partner would get jealous of I ogled another woman. I never had to deal with these situations before. My ex would find it inappropriate to be alone with another man if either are in a relationship and it's not strictly business. So it's all very new to me.

 

Though I've been upfront about my inability for poly relationships from the get go and the reasons why. I told her we could remain **** buddies and she could do what she wanted, but she insisted being monogamous would be no problem for her and would respect it. I know as I grow secure, I've thought about swinging/poly relationships before and was okay with that partner doing it. I think we had a strong foundation and that feeling wasn't there for a year or two. It's been a learning process for me, and something I am doing partially selfishly. I have massive abandonment issues, having my mom take off when I was a baby, drug addict dad, and my mom returned only to relapse into a raging alcoholic before becoming homeless. I also harbor resentment for the time in which I was fat and girls didn't give me a chance and have feelings of inadequacy.

 

It has left me this shell of emotions that whenever I experience hurt, I would rather push people away than voice my emotions and forgive people. Simple things. In these moments in my past, I would have faded. I would have faded a three month relationship and left her with nothing but her ex boyfriend friend as an explanation. I am desperately tired of being lonely because my natural instincts. This woman communicates her emotions like no one I've ever been with. I've never seen a successful discussion. Every woman I've been with has been hot and crazy, and the crazy entails screaming at me instead of discussing feelings. My mom was a nutter who never talked about her emotions, and my dad was involved in many affairs with awful people.

 

I can learn a lot from navigating this relationship in terms of communication, trust and facing my fears of inadequacy and abandonment. Many of my relationships have ended with women telling me that I pushed them away and am emotionally ****ed up. I think she can talk me through some of these things, and in the end, if she breaks these boundaries, I'll move on, like I always move on and there's always another woman- who is highly likely to be on bored with monogamy.

[katiegrl]

I read "Stranger in a Strange Land," several times in fact and OP you remind me of its main character, Mike...

 

Out of touch with your emotions and the various nuances of human reactions and relationships. Almost as if you have taken his personal in many ways.

 

IMO, your relationship is toxic, and I would think it is fairly obvious to anyone reading that it's unhealthy and should end.

 

When I read you cried while arguing, I shuttered. I agree with post no. 9, instead of crying you should have stayed strong and told her her behavior is unacceptable to you, and you're walking away. The end.

 

You living with your ex is also unacceptable.

 

The book was a novel, fiction, a fantasy, NOT real. Mike the Martian was a fictional character.

 

I think it's important to remember that!

 

Good luck going forward.

Edited November 25, 2015 by katiegrl

[Maggie4]

Is this all about jealousy? I think it's about disrespect. Let's say my daughter had been in your gf's situation, I wouldn't like it either. One guy putting his hand on her leg, the other wanted to kiss and be seen by the rival doing so. The girl is not a piece of meat. She should tell all of you to back off in public. And she was rude and ungracious to not invite you. Awful manners. I'm glad her parents said something.

How about everyone start respecting everyone else? Her ex does not respect her boundaries. Backrub? Totally inappropriate. She didn't respect you when she snubbed you at the concert. And you had some kind of emotional episode, which is not good but it's something of a different nature.

Was it a coincidence that she met you the week she broke up with this guy? Don't tell me you met her online.

[losangelena]

I feel like it's perfectly normal to be jealous if another man tries to kiss your GF or put his hand on her knee or give her a back rub. That's called overstepping boundaries.

 

To me this sounds like a compatibility issue—she is comfortable with a poly lifestyle and you aren't. I wouldn't tie myself up like an emotional pretzel for her if I were you, trying to accommodate her "no jealousy" outlook. That's not fair to either of you.

[Satu]

One rule for a happy life:

 

Avoid the use of harsh speech.

 

Harsh speech doesn't have to be about shouting.

 

It's about the words said.

 

If you're too angry or upset about something to make your feelings known in a measured way, calm down first and talk later

 

 

Take care..

[VengeanceGuidesMe]

I read "Stranger in a Strange Land," several times in fact and OP you remind me of its main character, Mike...

 

Out of touch with your emotions and the various nuances of human reactions and relationships. Almost as if you have taken his personal in many ways.

 

IMO, your relationship is toxic, and I would think it is fairly obvious to anyone reading that it's unhealthy and should end.

 

When I read you cried while arguing, I shuttered. I agree with post no. 9, instead of crying you should have stayed strong and told her her behavior is unacceptable to you, and you're walking away. The end.

 

You living with your ex is also unacceptable.

 

The book was a novel, fiction, a fantasy, NOT real. Mike the Martian was a fictional character.

 

I think it's important to remember that!

 

Good luck going forward.

 

I believe in Mike's non jealous love nest, and how it would work.. if people weren't full of jealousy and insecurity. I'm not so naïve to think that his fiction could be realized, as it took telepathy to facilitate it, IMO. Just more that I can understand the ideologies and mindsets that are required for these relationships.

 

This is the least toxic relationship I've experienced. We've never shouted at each other (and by raised my voice, I'm saying it was like in between room talk, and loud room talk) and all we do is work on communication and loving each other. We've reached a sort of first road block in our communication, and I've realized here that it is mostly based on our differences in poly/mono backgrounds and poor boundaries that were set that left me getting hurt.

 

I don't regret crying. I know alpha/beta bull**** argurments, don't bring that in my thread. Crying is the expression of emotions that men and women have, and we both had some tears. It's not like we were balling our eyes out over spilled milk. It's not like my lip was quivering. My eyes watered and I might have had a couple tears drop.

 

However, I like your last point. In the end, it's about finding our line and what is acceptable. Once someone knows that line and crosses it with disregard, I think it's time to pack it up. That is why we've discussed boundaries, and I'm going over tonight to see her again and finish that out.

 

Is this all about jealousy? I think it's about disrespect. Let's say my daughter had been in your gf's situation, I wouldn't like it either. One guy putting his hand on her leg, the other wanted to kiss and be seen by the rival doing so. The girl is not a piece of meat. She should tell all of you to back off in public. And she was rude and ungracious to not invite you. Awful manners. I'm glad her parents said something.

How about everyone start respecting everyone else? Her ex does not respect her boundaries. Backrub? Totally inappropriate. She didn't respect you when she snubbed you at the concert. And you had some kind of emotional episode, which is not good but it's something of a different nature.

Was it a coincidence that she met you the week she broke up with this guy? Don't tell me you met her online.

 

I think you're spot on. It's not jealousy, but feeling disrespected. However, I think it's something she can handle once I tell her how I feel today. I've been mulling it around and what I need and I think I need to discuss with her how she is setting and maintaining boundaries with friends and what her response is if they over step them. I need to know that she'll respect me, that they will respect us, or they will be losing a friend. That is something I need, and if she's not willing to give me that, then yes, I'm walking.

 

I feel like it's perfectly normal to be jealous if another man tries to kiss your GF or put his hand on her knee or give her a back rub. That's called overstepping boundaries.

 

To me this sounds like a compatibility issue—she is comfortable with a poly lifestyle and you aren't. I wouldn't tie myself up like an emotional pretzel for her if I were you, trying to accommodate her "no jealousy" outlook. That's not fair to either of you.

 

Yeah, she is comfortable with a poly lifestyle, but at the onset, I told her we could be **** buddies and she can do what she wants and we'll go this way until we don't. She started getting emotionally attached and I told her that I can't date a poly and I need to be monogamous. So you're right, it's not fair to me for me to swallow my jealousy and ignore it. And I won't.

 

One rule for a happy life:

 

Avoid the use of harsh speech.

 

Harsh speech doesn't have to be about shouting.

 

It's about the words said.

 

If you're too angry or upset about something to make your feelings known in a measured way, calm down first and talk later

 

 

Take care..

 

Thank you Satu for the advice. I will work on it, I actually talked to her about that myself. She's okay with waiting a day or two to talk about things, so in the future, I'm going to work on that while not exploding. Though I can't go on pretending nothing is bothering me, so usually what happens is I turn super cold and ignore them for a bit while I think about it. This usually is obvious enough that people ask me what's wrong. In most cases, I say nothing and that person disappears from my life. In other cases, it comes out with a little bit of heat if I haven't had the time to think through it and calm myself down.

 

I'm working on my emotional control. It's like my control is either on or off, I have no low/med/hot settings. If I haven't worked it all out, once I open that switch, it comes out with ferocity sometimes.

[katiegrl]

I feel like it's perfectly normal to be jealous if another man tries to kiss your GF or put his hand on her knee or give her a back rub. That's called overstepping boundaries.

 

 

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one LA.

 

The root of jealousy is insecurity so if a another man tried to kiss his girlfriend, put her hand on his knee, backrub, etc..... unless the boyfriend is so insecure that he feels threatened that his girlfriend might leave him for this other man, the more appropriate and healthy reaction would be to feel disrespected ...

 

Not only by his own girlfriend for allowing it, but by the other man also, assuming he knows she has a boyfriend and boyfriend is most likely witnessing all this.

 

For me, if I were at a party and another woman was flirting with my boyfriend, putting her hand on his leg, etc, gave him a backrub??....etc.... and my boyfriend did not stop it, I would not feel at all jealous...what I would feel is incredibly disrespected by my boyfriend for allowing it to happen, and my response to that would be to walk out and leave.

 

Later I would tell him that his behavior was completely unacceptable, that I felt disrespected and if it ever happened again, I'm gone. Period.

 

Yes he DID overstep boundaries, but again the more healthy and "normal" reaction is to feel disrespected, not jealousy.

 

Jealousy is an ugly emotion and has no place in a healthy, loving relationship IMO.

Edited November 25, 2015 by katiegrl