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"The Rules"


Toodaloo

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I still have not got this whole dating lark sorted out and I still do not know what I am doing if I am brutally honest so I have hit the books again.

 

On Saturday my copy of "the Rules for On Line Dating" appeared in my letter box.

 

What a crock of absolute horse manure.

 

Rules Include.

 

Never Approach a Man First.

How on earth are they supposed to know they are "allowed" to talk to you or that it would be appropriate? If you don't even say hello?

 

Never Pay for Dates.

I think that one has been done to death in these forums...

 

Make him come to you for the first 3 dates at least.

Mmmm - not sure I want a stranger knowing my hangouts thanks!

 

I read the book but you know what I do not think it is doing any women any favours at all. Its making us look like prick teasers and game players...

 

Apart from Mathew Hussey and Natalie Lue anyone got any other suggestions that are better than this?

 

I met someone over the weekend and he was telling me about a disaster date he had. I swear that girl had read "The Rules" as her behavior was text book...

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I think it's a load of rubbish too. If someone likes you then it doesn't matter who contacted who first, and who paid for what. But you do hear on here a lot that men don't like women to 'give in' too easily and prefer to chase. Do we actually have to play these stupid games to be successful?

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Toodaloo,

Everybody is reading from the same books these days and I believe we are losing our individuality and spontaneity. A date is now akin to playing a video game.

Last year we had several hundred guys from out of area working at our facility. They were getting together making their profiles and mapping out plans for their dates. It was all so cookie-cutter and by the "book". Dating by committee.

 

Personally, I don't want games and rules. I'm ready to revert to the cave man days. Club the girl and just drag her off to my cave.

TEASE ME. :)

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Well I broke all the rules.

 

I messaged the guy I met at the weekend first. I offered my number. He seemed to be hinting at joining me on a walk he knew I was going on so I asked him if he wanted to come.

 

He is great and I am seeing him again later in the week.

 

"The Rules" offers no advice on how to actually become a better quality date yourself nor how to handle rejection or different personality types or how to read between the lines to weed out lies from the truth. It just assumes that all men are telling fibs and/ or cheats and if they stop for one second because they have a life then they are married or something else equally as bad. If they haven't asked you out in 4 messages to next them... I was horrified to be honest.

 

Perhaps I need to borrow that club lg. It is the year 2015 after all I am sure I can swing a club and cart off some handsome fella to my lair and devour him!!! :laugh:

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Ouch ouch ouch

 

There are no fast hard rules of dating , some times you just gotta make it up

As you go along and feel the person and you can get a good idea if you chat to them if your on the same page

 

Never Approach a Man First.

How on earth are they supposed to know they are "allowed" to talk to you or that it would be appropriate? If you don't even say hello?

 

This is old school , if you like some one why shouldn't you approach , men always do the hard work and some times the woman should make a stance , it feels good to get interest and he would be flattered ,

 

Never Pay for Dates.

I think that one has been done to death in these forums...

 

Equal rights ! You can't have it both ways ! Should be a joint venture , every one likes to be treated and it's not all about spending money

 

Make him come to you for the first 3 dates at least.

Mmmm - not sure I want a stranger knowing my hangouts thanks!

 

Nope nope nope nope nope

Should be again a joint venture , unless you have baby sitters in or you at having house done up , why shouldn't you take it in turns and then you both know your making the effort

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PrettyEmily77

Rule 1: be yourself.

 

Rule 2: follow your gut.

 

Rule 3:.... sorry Toodaloo, that's all I've got.

 

You don't need rules. You are yourself. That's all you need. :).

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Rule 1: be yourself.

 

Rule 2: follow your gut.

 

Rule 3:.... sorry Toodaloo, that's all I've got.

 

You don't need rules. You are yourself. That's all you need. :).

 

No. 1 and 2 -- playing devil's advocate, what if "being yourself" and "following your gut" means being needy, clingy, insecure, obsessive, blowing up a guy's phone 59 times a day, constantly seeking reassurance ....as we so often read about on this boards?

 

IMO, The Rules and other such books are geared more toward *those* type of women, so they don't scare away every guy they meet and date with their neediness and insecurity!

 

The overly-needy types (NOT you Toodaloo) need to learn boundaries. The Rules is extreme, but it's a good start. For "them."

 

In time, they will learn what *works* and find the right balance.

 

Toodles, clearly you do not need that book or other books so toss them all in the trash!

 

But again, many women who are needy, clingy, have no boundaries and chase guys who have no interest in them ... DO need them which is why The Rules and other such books were written IMO.

Edited by katiegrl
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PrettyEmily77
No. 1 and 2 -- playing devil's advocate, what if "being yourself" and "following your gut" means being needy, clingy, insecure, obsessive, blowing up a guy's phone 59 times a day, constantly seeking reassurance ....as we so often read about on this boards?

 

IMO, The Rules and other such books are geared more toward *those* type of women, so they don't scare away every guy they meet and date with their neediness and insecurity!

 

The overly-needy types (NOT you Toodaloo) need to learn boundaries. The Rules is extreme, but it's a good start. For "them."

 

In time, they will learn what *works* and find the right balance.

 

Toodles, clearly you do not need that book or other books so toss them all in the trash!

 

But again, many women who are needy, clingy, have no boundaries and chase guys who have no interest in them ... DO need them which is why they were written IMO.

 

Dating /being in a RS should be the very last thing on anyone's mind if they displyy the traits you are describing. No amount of tips will help someone ovetcome clingyness, paranoia, self-esteem issues, IMO.

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"The Rules" offers no advice on how to actually become a better quality date yourself nor how to handle rejection or different personality types or how to read between the lines to weed out lies from the truth. It just assumes that all men are telling fibs and/ or cheats and if they stop for one second because they have a life then they are married or something else equally as bad. If they haven't asked you out in 4 messages to next them... I was horrified to be honest.

 

 

What different personality types have you encountered?

 

 

Good for you on breaking the rules - that's being true to yourself and to the men you meet.

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the rules might seem old-fashioned and ridiculous, but if you look at how many women in prior generations ended up married and engaged and in ltr's as opposed to girls today... well, it speaks for itself. the family held up much better because women had a defined role, as did men. girls today are quite classless, which is why they are willing to become men in order to get dates. there is nothing - at all - classy or feminine about approaching a man, calling a man and hounding him for dates, paying for him, etc. i think some of the rules are really ridiculous and lame, but some others should just be 'standard.' it's like a new food, you should try it a few times before you claim dislike for it.

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Dating /being in a RS should be the very last thing on anyone's mind if they displyy the traits you are describing. No amount of tips will help someone ovetcome clingyness, paranoia, self-esteem issues, IMO.

 

I agree, but that isn't gonna stop those books from being written by greedy and opportunistic people looking to make a buck.

 

And those books do sell and make millions, and might even "help" some women who can't afford therapy or even recognize they have issues.

 

Anyway, I was just responding to your advice to "be yourself," and like I said, if a woman's nature is insecure, overly-needy, clingy, etc, being herself is NOT gonna work....it turns men off and pushes them away.

 

Yes therapy is ideal, but in the alternative, learning appropriate boundaries is a good start.

 

Just sayin.....

Edited by katiegrl
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T, I think The Rules offer a different point of view on dating, but it does kill indeed all spontaneity and opportunity to create any emotional bonding.

 

I've read a really nice and comforting book about RS called "Styles of attachment". It's really cool because it acknowledges your needs. It does not talk about right or wrong. It does make the distinction between coming to terms with your own genuine needs and projecting them onto someone else and expecting them to be fulfilled by another person. But it also makes some fantastic fantastic points about watching your partner's behaviour, seeing through nicely crafter speeches and taking your time to understand how your partner works. The book is really easy to read and is an honest, no pretend games RS material.

 

While there are so many books about RS out there, but, in my personal opinion, it's important to understand yourself first and your RS style. The sort of men you're attracted to and the general "mistakes" you're doing in a RS. What's called your pattern. There's a really great book - a bit more difficult to read, but really amazing - called Reinventing your life - by Jeffrey Young and Janet Klosko. The title is a misleading as it's a damn serious book. In it, it talks about people's key reactions / mistakes when it comes to approaching RS. Very good.

 

I'd like to buy "The 5 Languages of Love". i've read a bit about it, sounds interesting...

 

that's it, from me, T.

 

cheers

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the rules might seem old-fashioned and ridiculous, but if you look at how many women in prior generations ended up married and engaged and in ltr's as opposed to girls today... well, it speaks for itself. the family held up much better because women had a defined role, as did men. girls today are quite classless, which is why they are willing to become men in order to get dates. there is nothing - at all - classy or feminine about approaching a man, calling a man and hounding him for dates, paying for him, etc. i think some of the rules are really ridiculous and lame, but some others should just be 'standard.' it's like a new food, you should try it a few times before you claim dislike for it.

 

I agree and IMO those books (not just The Rules) are NOT to be followed like gospel.

 

They're a guide, most people read those books (I did when I first started dating) and picked and chose to follow what worked for ME.

 

Soon I found the right balance between being assertive and knowing when to pull back.

 

And in time, it all became second nature.

 

Some of those books (and articles) -- NOT "The Rules" lol -- are pretty good by the way.

 

Candie mentioned a few, there are others as well. I learned a lot from them when first started dating.

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there is nothing - at all - classy or feminine about approaching a man, calling a man and hounding him for dates, paying for him, etc.
Serious question here. Why is it considered "not classy" for a woman to approach a man, call a man, or treat him on a date? To me, these are actions that people take to demonstrate interest. I've exchange numbers with a woman and she happened to call me first. My first thought was not: "She's not classy".
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the rules might seem old-fashioned and ridiculous, but if you look at how many women in prior generations ended up married and engaged and in ltr's as opposed to girls today... well, it speaks for itself. the family held up much better because women had a defined role, as did men. girls today are quite classless, which is why they are willing to become men in order to get dates. there is nothing - at all - classy or feminine about approaching a man, calling a man and hounding him for dates, paying for him, etc. i think some of the rules are really ridiculous and lame, but some others should just be 'standard.' it's like a new food, you should try it a few times before you claim dislike for it.

 

WOW.

 

So a simple hello is considered to be trashy?

 

I am no man. I am all woman. However I do understand that it can be difficult to approach and sometimes it takes a little nudge for guys to notice you.

 

If 1 or 2 texts a day and a phone call every few days - sometimes initiated by me sometimes by him is trashy??? Desperate??? Needy??? I am hardly begging for dates or hounding men. If the response is lack lustre or not entirely positive its on to the next and forgotten about.

 

Why the hell should I expect a perfect stranger to pay for me? That is trashy behaviour.

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I'd like to buy "The 5 Languages of Love". i've read a bit about it, sounds interesting...

 

that's it, from me, T.

 

cheers

 

I have a copy and its superb. Makes complete sense.

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WOW.

 

So a simple hello is considered to be trashy?

 

I am no man. I am all woman. However I do understand that it can be difficult to approach and sometimes it takes a little nudge for guys to notice you.

 

If 1 or 2 texts a day and a phone call every few days - sometimes initiated by me sometimes by him is trashy??? Desperate??? Needy??? I am hardly begging for dates or hounding men. If the response is lack lustre or not entirely positive its on to the next and forgotten about.

 

Why the hell should I expect a perfect stranger to pay for me? That is trashy behaviour.

 

No Toodles, of course doing those things is not trashy, that is not what I got from new moon's post.

 

It's finding the right balance between being assertive and knowing when to pull back, and it is clear YOU have found that balance!

 

So keep on keeping on! :)

 

But the reality is many women have not learned that balance and they go OVER BOARD calling, texting, etc etc etc, and it turns men off.

 

We read about this happening almost every day on this board!

 

So again some of those books teach such women boundaries and balance.

 

The Rules is extreme and IMO a piece of trash but there are some good ones out there.

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you can still be classy when first approaching a guy. Or playful. Or flirty.

 

I am quite playful. I love to banter and flirt like crazy. Still ... what I've noticed is that some men like to feel like they are the ones deciding whom they take out and when. It's not that having a woman chatting them up is trashy or unsexy... but in a way it's depriving them of the pleasure / thrills of asking a girl they like out.

 

Asking a guy out first - as a girl - may make some guys too confident that you're into them. Some men feel a bit more comfortable when there's some uncertainty... some mystery.

 

PErsonally, I take more pleasure in the interaction with an interesting partner, but I do acknowledge that some men take a lot of pleasure in the process of interacting with someone new, as well. That's why I'm nice, smiley, but holding my horses, even when I meet someone exciting.

 

In the end, there are plenty of exciting men out there, but I want someone consistent about me... Men who have a consistent behavior in interacting with a woman are men who are interested. And interested men act interested. Plenty of exciting men out there, but I'm looking for those rare gems, which are exciting men, but interested in me / dating someone more seriously.

 

Basically, by not making the first step and giving them plenty of space I get to weed out flakes. Exciting flakes are still flakes... Extremely disappointing flakes... So yeah... patience when dating always pays out. Always. PAtience and being true to yourself.

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the rules might seem old-fashioned and ridiculous, but if you look at how many women in prior generations ended up married and engaged and in ltr's as opposed to girls today... well, it speaks for itself. the family held up much better because women had a defined role, as did men. girls today are quite classless, which is why they are willing to become men in order to get dates. there is nothing - at all - classy or feminine about approaching a man, calling a man and hounding him for dates, paying for him, etc. i think some of the rules are really ridiculous and lame, but some others should just be 'standard.' it's like a new food, you should try it a few times before you claim dislike for it.

 

The world is a different place now.

Women were mostly classy and not attention [seekers] back then.

Look at the majority of women on face book. I rest my argument.

 

Also, ever talk to a man in his 70's & 80's?

The majority of them do not and never will view women as equals.

 

Don't complain if men start acting the same as they did in that past era.

Cant have it both ways.

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my take.

Never Approach a Man First.

Really only works if the woman is above average in looks to hot.

 

Never Pay for Dates.

I think that one has been done to death in these forums...

Yep, nothing to see here.

Make him come to you for the first 3 dates at least.

Mmmm - not sure I want a stranger knowing my hangouts thanks!

 

This.

Most women I know prefer to meet and if we drive anywhere after we meet they insist of taking their car.

It's a safety thing for sure.

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Dating /being in a RS should be the very last thing on anyone's mind if they displyy the traits you are describing. No amount of tips will help someone ovetcome clingyness, paranoia, self-esteem issues, IMO.

sorry, but those are really harsh labels to put on people. Really harsh. And everyone has self esteem issues to some extent - just look at the overcompetitive and perfection loving society we live in. Hell, buy yourself any fashion magazine and tell you you don't feel a tiny bit bad when looking at those models with perfect bodies and flawless skin casually wearing H&M and ZAra... not even starting the debate about models for designer clothes.

 

IMO, a RS is a sort of a talk between 2 people, it's like 2 radios searching for that common frequency to communicate together. As long as both of them are open to finetuning themselves to find that common wavelength, the RS has good chances of blossoming.

 

And both of the partners can have anxiety traits, not just women ! Men need to be handled with care and attention too, and it's like they are the devil, the enemy, in those books. OR like a human being who needs to be manipulated into doing something they absolutely don't want to do... like taming them. hell, that's not a RS - not a RS that I want to have. If a man is not into RS, I will make my best to find out and weed him out, not do my best to make him to date / marry me

 

That's what I really hate in those books. They don't treat men like equal partners, they treat men like an enemy to vanquish or get power over. Sure, some men only want to f*ck. Or only want children. There are some women like that too. Some will lie about it. Lie and cheat. Not all of them. And it's up to everyone of us to get to know our partner and understand the nature of his interest in us, before delivering. Usually time, patience and a good pair of eyes open very wide do the trick. Othertimes, we get played, no matter how much we try to do better... it's life, it sucks at times.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about seduction. I love mystery and seduction and it's damn hard to keep those alive - when dating someone or in a RS. There are not enough books about that! That's what's really keeping a RS alive. Fascination. Desire... Lust ! Gimme some of that and I'm buying it !

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