Men like it when you are mean?

[Toodaloo]

I have been getting quite a bit of success with a better quality of man recently. Sadly its not quite worked out and I am not there yet but one thing has struck me.

 

They seem to get keen when I get a bit mean.

 

I am not being overtly nasty. But I am pushing them and being a bit curt with them.

 

As soon as I sense their interest beginning to wane I send a quick short message along the lines of "Its been nice talking to you" - so not a good bye but a hint that I am buggaring off and whomph... its straight back in there. Like bees to honey...

 

Its just so sad that in order to gain the attention of kind, generous, hard working, worth while men I have to be... well to put it bluntly... bit of a bitch.

 

I can't just be my usual lovely to everyone, happy, bouncy self. I just have to bounce off in another direction paying them absolutely no heed and treating them as inconsequential. I feel a bit horrible doing it - but it is getting me dates with a far better quality of man and the sort of men that I know will treat me well if it gets that far.

 

Thing is - I actually want to treat them well too. I don't like doing this. I want to spoil them rotten and pamper them. But I know if I do they will write me off with out a glance backwards.

 

Pft.

 

This dating lark is utter balls sometimes isn't it.

 

Seems women are not the only ones with Daddy issues.

 

I am off to shave my legs.

[d0nnivain]

It's not about being mean. It's about valuing yourself. If you don't chase after them like a rabid dog & make them show you some appreciation, they see more value in you & want to work to make you happy. After you see that they are willing to pamper you, then you can pamper them.

[Zagan]

So you act in ways that are completely against your usual nature just to keep men interested in you? That's kind of an issue. If someones affection for you has run its course and they are detaching then that's the natural flow and that person wasn't for you. You shouldn't have to act in ways which are not your usual personality just to make them come running back. The more you do this the longer it will take for someone who is actually compatible with you to get to you..Without you having to adopt traits that are not usual to yourself.

[SawtoothMars]

I have been getting quite a bit of success with a better quality of man recently. Sadly its not quite worked out and I am not there yet but one thing has struck me.

 

They seem to get keen when I get a bit mean.

This dating lark is utter balls sometimes isn't it.

 

Seems women are not the only ones with Daddy issues.

 

I am off to shave my legs.

 

There is some truth to this. Especially for younger men. I think maybe it's the same emotional trigger that makes men enjoy things like bull riding.

[carhill]

TBH, I deal with that kind of adversarial attitude enough everyday in business and I simply avoid 'curt' people personally since I have more of a choice in that realm. The only exceptions are where they may be the spouses of friends and I love the friend more than I despise the curtness of their spouse. Otherwise, I'm like a hole in the water. They aren't going to change and I'm not going to change so billions more to be interacted with.

[gaius]

So you act in ways that are completely against your usual nature just to keep men interested in you? That's kind of an issue. If someones affection for you has run its course and they are detaching then that's the natural flow and that person wasn't for you. You shouldn't have to act in ways which are not your usual personality just to make them come running back. The more you do this the longer it will take for someone who is actually compatible with you to get to you..Without you having to adopt traits that are not usual to yourself.

Sometimes our usual nature is to only focus on ourselves and what we want to do. I know it sounds weird, but Too wanting to spoil guys rotten no matter how they treat her is actually very selfish on her part. She's not responding to the needs of the man and what he's telling her with his actions. And now she is, and it's working out much better for her.

 

I can see you developing a happy medium Too, where you spoil the guy when he deserves it, but also tell him to F off when that's what he's looking for.

[Satu]

It's all about honest responses, rather than being mean.

 

If you're not happy about something you don't have to look as if you are.

 

Of course it works the other way around.

 

If you're happy about something its good to let that show.

[Redhead14]

I have been getting quite a bit of success with a better quality of man recently. and I am not there yet but one thing has struck me.

 

They seem to get keen when I get a bit mean.

 

I am not being overtly nasty. But I am pushing them and being a bit curt with them.

 

As soon as I sense their interest beginning to wane I send a quick short message along the lines of "Its been nice talking to you" - so not a good bye but a hint that I am buggaring off and whomph... its straight back in there. Like bees to honey...

 

Its just so sad that in order to gain the attention of kind, generous, hard working, worth while men I have to be... well to put it bluntly... bit of a bitch.

 

I can't just be my usual lovely to everyone, happy, bouncy self. I just have to bounce off in another direction paying them absolutely no heed and treating them as inconsequential. I feel a bit horrible doing it - but it is getting me dates with a far better quality of man and the sort of men that I know will treat me well if it gets that far.

 

Thing is - I actually want to treat them well too. I don't like doing this. I want to spoil them rotten and pamper them. But I know if I do they will write me off with out a glance backwards.

 

Pft.

 

This dating lark is utter balls sometimes isn't it.

 

Seems women are not the only ones with Daddy issues.

 

I am off to shave my legs.

 

I feel a bit horrible doing it -- of course you feel horrible doing it -- it creates an inner conflict/battle. That is unhealthy.

 

All you are doing is attracting men who are maybe attracted to women who are less nurturing/aloof/bitchy.

 

You aren't attracting a better quality of man, you are attracting type of man that isn't for you. And, basically, you are attempting to fool them. They may become more interested and thinking they've found the type of woman they really like, but you won't be able to maintain that "posture" forever. Your natural tendencies will gradually/eventually come through and he will then say to himself "wow, she's changed. I don't like this "new" woman".

 

This statement supports two things you said above:

 

I have been getting quite a bit of success

Sadly its not quite worked out

 

How can you call something a success if it isn't working out? That is an oxymoron. The reason for this is that you're behavior is an oxymoron. Bitchy/mean --pamperer/nurturer.

 

Don't do this to yourself. This is why the honeymoon ends for people who aren't being themselves.

 

The couples who say that the honeymoon never ended for them, are the ones where both parties were being themselves from the very beginning . . .

[Zagan]

Sometimes our usual nature is to only focus on ourselves and what we want to do. I know it sounds weird, but Too wanting to spoil guys rotten no matter how they treat her is actually very selfish on her part. She's not responding to the needs of the man and what he's telling her with his actions. And now she is, and it's working out much better for her.

 

I can see you developing a happy medium Too, where you spoil the guy when he deserves it, but also tell him to F off when that's what he's looking for.

 

But she said that it's not quite working out. So she's clearly not happy about it. I do understand where you're coming from though.

I think it's a bit desperate though, to change your personality to the polar opposite of what your usual nature is just to keep men interested. You can have perfect success with somebody without behaving in ways that aren't usual to yourself because that person will reciprocate naturally because they are interested in who you really are. Without you having to change your behaviour to reel them back in.

[jen1447]

I think there's a growing segment of men in general who are developing submissive tendencies and sensibilities which can manifest in attraction to 'cruelty,' bitchyness, authority etc. on the part of women. So I think it's quite literally at least possible that these are the men you're appealing to by being that way, not necessarily that they really just value women who value themselves and so on. (I have theories about why that is, but this probably isn't the place for them.)

 

I trust your judgment about these guys being "better quality," but I don't know that it follows that having submissive traits automatically translates into quality. Might just be coincidence. (I happen to like submissive guys but not all of them are good guys, and not all assertive guys are bad guys.)

[GemmaUK]

It's just about being straight pretty much.

 

I will and do query/disagree with a guy from the get go if I have a query or don't agree.

I don't 'argue' but I'll state my case/opinion.

I have found many men around my age don't like women having an opinion on anything much but as soon as I figure that out I'm out.

 

If a man doesn't appear to be stepping up then yep. I will suggest that perhaps it's best we don't meet/continue dating/chatting.

There's no need for me to continue wasting either his nor my time.

 

It's not being a 'B', it's being a human.

When they do 'increase' interest - they see you have a mind of your own. I just end it there because it's pretty clear they never thought that in the beginning...

[Zagan]

It's just about being straight pretty much.

 

I will and do query/disagree with a guy from the get go if I have a query or don't agree.

I don't 'argue' but I'll state my case/opinion.

I have found many men around my age don't like women having an opinion on anything much but as soon as I figure that out I'm out.

 

If a man doesn't appear to be stepping up then yep. I will suggest that perhaps it's best we don't meet/continue dating/chatting.

There's no need for me to continue wasting either his nor my time.

 

It's not being a 'B', it's being a human.

When they do 'increase' interest - they see you have a mind of your own. I just end it there because it's pretty clear they never thought that in the beginning...

 

It's pretty important to me that a woman has a mind of her own, if it's someone you are going to be spending most of your time with, being intimate and close to, why wouldn't you want somebody who you could talk to and debate with and share opinions with. It's no fun if you agree on everything

[Versacehottie]

It's not about being mean. It's about valuing yourself. If you don't chase after them like a rabid dog & make them show you some appreciation, they see more value in you & want to work to make you happy. After you see that they are willing to pamper you, then you can pamper them.

 

Yeah, I agree. In the example you gave you're basically telling them they need to up their game because you value yourself more and aren't going to waste your time. It happens a lot but especially in dating, if you put yourself first, others are attracted to it.

 

As far as the being mean part, I think the reason that being mean "works" is because the subtleties of being mean vs. putting yourself first are lost--it looks and feels similar when a person doesn't know you well or when you are in those uncertain first stages. Putting yourself first and valuing yourself is a strategy for the long term--being mean is not. Guys respond to boundaries and clear when they are still trying to impress you and haven't quite decided what they are going to do about you as one of their options. No one likes their options yanked away from them.

 

I know it's REALLY hard when your natural personality is to be more flexible, bubbly, happy and understanding of others. I think if that's your natural state, you will be fine to move a little toward the other end of the continuum to get the message across that you do have value! And are not in danger of turning into a b*tch. In dating a lot of times, these natural types get taken for granted and not appreciated. Unfortunately, in all areas of life, some people only attribute value to you if you make it DAMN clear.

 

I think if you keep handling things such as in the manner you described it will probably be a happy medium of your natural personality and something you can live with without inner conflict. It's important to speak up at the beginning anyway to establish good patterns. Plus in your example, that is how you were feeling (about to move on) so why hide it? Good luck

[Sunlight72]

Sometimes our usual nature is to only focus on ourselves and what we want to do. I know it sounds weird, but Too wanting to spoil guys rotten no matter how they treat her is actually very selfish on her part. She's not responding to the needs of the man and what he's telling her with his actions. And now she is, and it's working out much better for her.

I agree with this ^^^

 

I think Toodaloos' past behavoir is (like mine was) to fawn all over a guy as soon as they meet. She doesn't reserve the fawning for when the guy turns out to be truly wonderful and really interested in her.

 

This is not the way to be objective about who you're dating and who you like. You don't honestly love every man in the world, so don't treat them all like you would elope with them after the first or second date.

 

From my own experience, my natural impulse with women I found attractive was to be shy, nervous and start picturing our next 30 wonderful years together. Eventually I would then try to work through this just enough to speak to them, and then weeks later (after much daydreaming) actually ask them out.

 

Very backwards, and yielded crappy results and lots and lots of dis-interested women.

 

So, no. Not everyone should just "go with their natural selves".

 

I say Good for You Toodaloo! You're starting to learn that you can make conscious decisions about how you interact with men! Keep going! Try other little changes in behavior and over time, with many men see what those behaviors yield. It's fun and super helpful. You're just starting to become a star.

 

I spent a couple years re-learning my interactions with women about 5 years ago. I dated (and married) two women in my life until I was divorced twice at age 37. Two years of investigation and practice, and everything changed. Now I don't feel that old panic that I must marry the next good woman I meet.

 

It's also soooo much more fun for the women I hang out with and have dated - the ones who make it past date two that is.

 

The other side of this is that you now have options. Soon, you'll start zero-ing in on what characteristics you really value in a guy and letting the rest go.

 

Go go go You're just getting up to speed.

[pleasedtomeetyou]

Some men (myself included) get bored very quickly by women who are always willing to acquiesce to what we want. It's a welcome change of pace when a woman stands up to us and expresses what they want in a clear, respectful, appropriate manner.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

Assertiveness in females can be really hot, if not done in a mean or spiteful manner.

[GemmaUK]

Some women (myself included) get bored very quickly by men who are always willing to acquiesce to what we want. It's a welcome change of pace when a man stands up to us and expresses what they want in a clear, respectful, appropriate manner.

 

...and it's the same for men..clearly.

Neither gender will worry about this if they are just after a hook up but for a relationship it matters.

[Gary S]

Playing hard to get doubles attraction level.

[Redhead14]

Playing hard to get doubles attraction level.

 

There is a difference between playing hard to get and actually being hard to get . . .

 

If you are hard to get, it's because you have a full, rich, busy life and the man needs to demonstrate enough to her to make it worth fitting him into it.

[Diezel]

I don't have the time of day for a woman who feels that in order to keep me around, she needs to be mean to me.

 

I know a perfectly good curb for someone like that.

[Lansing]

I have broken up with girls before because I felt like they had an "attitude" and I didn't want to deal with it anymore. Sometimes a girl seems like a "nice" girl but then she comes around with making comments that have me second guessing their true nature.

 

I would prefer a girl who is confident but still nice..

[katiegrl]

I agree with Versachehottie for the most part...but Toods, for the life of me I can't figure out why you think saying --

 

 

>>"Its been nice talking to you"

 

 

would be considered mean.

 

 

The guy is pulling back.... not showing his interest as much ... and as such you wish to move on.... and are expressing that to him....WITHOUT going off on him or accusing him godonlyknows what for leading you on, etc etc etc.

 

 

THAT would be mean and bytchy....NOT saying "it's been nice talking to you." Maybe a little sarcastic but not mean and bytchy by any stretch.

 

 

I think it's a rather nice and polite way of letting him know you want to step up or you are stepping out.

 

 

Re being bytchy.... yes I am sometimes bytchy but only when my boyfriend behaves in such a way that warrants it!

 

 

If he behaves badly (i.e. inconsiderate, selfish, insensitive, etc) then yes I am damn well going to let him know...

 

 

This does not happen so much now, but for the first year, it happened more often as I think he was pushing boundaries and did not know what I would or would not tolerate....

 

 

But yeah when I was unhappy with a certain behavior... I would let him know and if it required me getting a little angry (okay bytchy) about it, so be it.

 

 

And yes he DID respect me for it A LOT. As I don't think men like or remain attracted to women who allow them to get away with shyt.

 

 

Now he's a big teddy bear.... haha.

Edited September 2, 2015 by katiegrl

[Oregon_Dude]

I like it when women tease me a bit, give me a hard time, in a playful way.

 

I do not like it when they are mean, or bitches. Major turn off.

[pleasedtomeetyou]

Some women (myself included) get bored very quickly by men who are always willing to acquiesce to what we want. It's a welcome change of pace when a man stands up to us and expresses what they want in a clear, respectful, appropriate manner.

 

...and it's the same for men..clearly.

Neither gender will worry about this if they are just after a hook up but for a relationship it matters.

 

The dynamic is a bit different though because as a man in the early stages of dating, i'm always the one in charge of arranging the date, deciding what we're doing, paying etc.

 

Its a-lot easier to acquiesce to another person when you are doing none of the work yourself. Which is usually the case for women in the early stage of dating.

[pleasedtomeetyou]

Also, totally agree with the people who say being playfully mean is fine, but actually mean is not.

 

Case in point. I was talking to a woman on Tinder a few days ago and we had made tentative arrangements to see each other this week. I asked her yesterday if we were still on for later. Her response? she unmatched me.

 

That's crossing the line from being assertive to straight up disrespectful. If she had written back saying, "Hey, i've had a change of heart and I don't think we should see each other" that would have been totally cool but her actual response sucked.