Women should pay far more often...

[mjkcal]

Like it or not, the burden to pay on a first date nearly always falls on the guy. On occasion, a girl will step up and pay half which is greatly appreciated. This is the ways things are. I know this, I accept this. I don't mind paying for a girl if she has a genuine interest in me by the end of the date.

 

What really bothers me is when on a first date, a girl allows you to pay for her if she has no interest. I think this is extremely unethical, but I've found it happens quite often.

 

I suppose this is more of a mini-rant than anything else. I know not all women are like this, but there are far more than I wish there were.

 

Does anyone have any strategies to deal with this type of situation on a first date?

[oberkeat]

Like it or not, the burden to pay on a first date nearly always falls on the guy. On occasion, a girl will step up and pay half which is greatly appreciated. This is the ways things are. I know this, I accept this. I don't mind paying for a girl if she has a genuine interest in me by the end of the date.

 

What really bothers me is when on a first date, a girl allows you to pay for her if she has no interest. I think this is extremely unethical, but I've found it happens quite often.

 

I suppose this is more of a mini-rant than anything else. I know not all women are like this, but there are far more than I wish there were.

 

Does anyone have any strategies to deal with this type of situation on a first date?

 

"Interest" has nothing to do with who pays. I almost always pay for dates because I'm usually the one who asked the girl for the date. I have no problem with that, and I think it's reasonable. There have been a few occasions where the girl has volunteered to pay for herself or both of us, which was fine by me too. I don't see why people make a big deal out of this.

Edited August 1, 2015 by oberkeat

[mrldii]

...Does anyone have any strategies to deal with this type of situation on a first date?

 

 

Yeah. As a man who's bothered by The Rule that states Men Have to Pay on the First Date, stop asking women out on the first date and wait for women to ask you out. When she does, inform her that you, too, are a feminist and since she asked - according to The Rules - she has to pay.

 

Then, order the most expensive thing on the menu.

 

Be prepared to provide dessert in the back seat after dining though, because according the The Rules (in the book you're using to guide your relations with members of the opposite sex), her sexual gratification in exchange for a meal IS expected.

 

 

 

Seriously, though, most normal, healthy, well-adjusted adults realize that whomever issues the invite, pays. Most normal, healthy, well-adjusted women realize this, and - even at the risk of being labeled a "feminazi" - do go Dutch on a first date.

 

Limit your dating choices to normal, healthy, well-adjusted women and your wallet will probably notice the difference the day before your next payday.

 

 

 

Best of luck to you...

[mjkcal]

"Interest" has nothing to do with who pays. I almost always pay for dates because I'm usually the one who asked the girl for the date. I have no problem with that, and I think it's reasonable. There have been a few occasions where the girl has volunteered to pay for herself or both of us, which was fine by me too. I don't see why people make a big deal out of this.

 

Well, maybe you have more disposable income than some of us. I think it's far more reasonable to not accept someone offering to pay if you are not interested and know that. To each their own.

[mjkcal]

Yeah. As a man who's bothered by The Rule that states Men Have to Pay on the First Date, stop asking women out on the first date and wait for women to ask you out. When she does, inform her that you, too, are a feminist and since she asked - according to The Rules - she has to pay.

 

Then, order the most expensive thing on the menu.

 

Be prepared to provide dessert in the back seat after dining though, because according the The Rules (in the book you're using to guide your relations with members of the opposite sex), her sexual gratification in exchange for a meal IS expected.

 

 

Seriously, though, most normal, healthy, well-adjusted adults realize that whomever issues the invite, pays. Most normal, healthy, well-adjusted women realize this, and - even at the risk of being labeled a "feminazi" - do go Dutch on a first date.

 

Limit your dating choices to normal, healthy, well-adjusted women and your wallet will probably notice the difference the day before your next payday.

 

 

Best of luck to you...

 

Well, men are usually shouldered with the asking her out duties, so I don't know that I agree with that idea.

 

I thought the push was towards gender equality, and I'm not seeing that transfer to the dating world. That is what it is. My main issue is anyone--male or female accepting someone buying things for them if they have no genuine interest at all. If you have unlimited funds or a lot of disposable income, I could see where you wouldn't care. But not all of us do.

 

I do think your second point is solid. Perhaps my selection is part of the issue here. I need to do a better job on that front.

[oberkeat]

Well, maybe you have more disposable income than some of us. I think it's far more reasonable to not accept someone offering to pay if you are not interested and know that. To each their own.

 

Income or gender has nothing to do with it either. If I asked for the date, I will pay. Your logic is faulty, OP. What I'm hearing you say is that you're only willing to pay if the girl is interested in seeing you again. Like paying for her stuff is some kind of a reward for her willingness to dating you. If that's what you are conveying to these girls you go out with, no wonder they aren't interested in further dates.

[mrldii]

...My main issue is anyone--male or female accepting someone buying things for them if they have no genuine interest at all...

 

Oh, well, then...if that's what this is really all about, I guess it's the female equivalent - and great game leveler - to men who have sex with women 'cuz they're "really into" them and "see this going somewhere"

 

and then never call, again.

[Radu]

Keep it cheap and simple.

 

At the risk of restarting the discussion in the sugar babe thread, Robert is right .... if they are insistant on restaurant or other expensive stuff, next it ... she's not interested in you per say.

[mjkcal]

Oh, well, then...if that's what this is really all about, I guess it's the female equivalent - and great game leveler - to men who have sex with women 'cuz they're "really into" them and "see this going somewhere"

 

and then never call, again.

 

To be fair, I've been used for sex only as well as I'm sure other guys have, so that's a two way street.

 

I don't know why you phrase it that way. I didn't mean it as offensive. I just feel it's reasonable from both sides to only accept if you're interested. That seems very fair and logical to me.

[mjkcal]

Income or gender has nothing to do with it either. If I asked for the date, I will pay. Your logic is faulty, OP. What I'm hearing you say is that you're only willing to pay if the girl is interested in seeing you again. Like paying for her stuff is some kind of a reward for her willingness to dating you. If that's what you are conveying to these girls you go out with, no wonder they aren't interested in further dates.

 

Actually, this doesn't happen all that often, just more often that I'd like to see. No, what I'm saying is I wouldn't feel comfortable accepting a girl paying for me if I knew I didn't want to see her again. With that thinking in line, I expect the same in return. It's based on common decency, not in a reward or some nonsense. You are thinking way too deep. I have plenty of second dates, but whenever I have this happen, it really sits with me wrong. It really comes down to treating others as I'd like to be treated, for me.

[mrldii]

... I just feel it's reasonable from both sides to only accept if you're interested. That seems very fair and logical to me.

 

It is reasonable. Since when are humans (not just women) always reasonable?

 

I'm surprised that this is the one area in which humans' unreasonableness is causing you so much angst.

 

There will be some women who will use men for a free meal; there will be some men who will use women for sex; there will be some people who will use the welfare system for a free ride; there will be some people who will cheat on their taxes.

 

 

So?

[mjkcal]

Keep it cheap and simple.

 

At the risk of restarting the discussion in the sugar babe thread, Robert is right .... if they are insistant on restaurant or other expensive stuff, next it ... she's not interested in you per say.

 

This is good, and usually what I do. I try for a walk, or ice cream, etc. This usually works out great. Where I'm located it's bloody hotter than heck right now, so outside stuff is somewhat off limits. This is the way to go though. Thanks.

[RoseVille]

Well, maybe you have more disposable income than some of us. I think it's far more reasonable to not accept someone offering to pay if you are not interested and know that. To each their own.

 

Someone who's not interested doesn't accept the date invite.

 

If her interest changes on the date, that's still on you.

[RoseVille]

This is good, and usually what I do. I try for a walk, or ice cream, etc. This usually works out great. Where I'm located it's bloody hotter than heck right now, so outside stuff is somewhat off limits. This is the way to go though. Thanks.

 

A walk as a first date?

 

Nope.

[mjkcal]

It is reasonable. Since when are humans (not just women) always reasonable?

 

I'm surprised that this is the one area in which humans' unreasonableness is causing you so much angst.

 

There will be some women who will use men for a free meal; there will be some men who will use women for sex; there will be some people who will use the welfare system for a free ride; there will be some people who will cheat on their taxes.

 

 

So?

 

When did I say it was the one and only area? Where did I say that? This just recently happened, so it stuck with me a bit. I thought this was a place to vent and such and just gather thoughts. I suppose I should think twice about doing so in the future. I'm a human, I have emotions and such, things bother me like anyone else. Just because I'm here to voice how I feel about something doesn't mean it's all I care about.

[newmoon]

i typically always pay my half, and forcefully. it actually turns a lot of men off, because they can interpret it as too headstrong, too forceful, too masculine and not feminine enough, etc. so there is a ton going on with the endless debate of pay/not pay. it has taken me many years to even accept a $1 coffee from someone, because there are lots of psychological and sociological issues surrounding why someone will/won't pay. some women are raised to never pay a cent, and some are raised to pay half, some to put out for a dinner, etc. but, i would say that any woman who agrees to go out with you has interest to some extent, even if it's just an interest in being friends. you can't expect that every paid date you have = romance.

[mjkcal]

A walk as a first date?

 

Nope.

 

Say what you will, but that works out great most times. So long as it's a very public park or well know rec area, most girls love it that I've taken. Or in other words, I see them again.

[mjkcal]

i typically always pay my half, and forcefully. it actually turns a lot of men off, because they can interpret it as too headstrong, too forceful, too masculine and not feminine enough, etc. so there is a ton going on with the endless debate of pay/not pay. it has taken me many years to even accept a $1 coffee from someone, because there are lots of psychological and sociological issues surrounding why someone will/won't pay. some women are raised to never pay a cent, and some are raised to pay half, some to put out for a dinner, etc. but, i would say that any woman who agrees to go out with you has interest to some extent, even if it's just an interest in being friends. you can't expect that every paid date you have = romance.

 

Thank you for this. A different perspective. I think you show that some women may want to pay and not pay out of fear of appearing masculine. Very good point.

[Radu]

Someone who's not interested doesn't accept the date invite.

 

If her interest changes on the date, that's still on you.

 

Actually no, that's not true, there are women who will take this for a free meal at a good place, one of the ways they rationalize this is 'well, he is getting the pleasure of my company'.

The above example, i heard it in private discussion with a woman who was in a relationship with another woman, and her decision to go for it was not based on needing a beard, and she would insist on a restaurant.

There are other examples, but generally speaking if you put her on a pedestal ... some will take advantage of it and not feel any guilt for it [through the above mentioned rationalizations].

 

So it's best to conserve your assets.

 

As far as i'm interested, if i'm on a date and she insists she goes 'there', with heavy hints ... morally she should offer to pay for it [and insist]; unfortunately these types tend to believe that for the next few hs they have a no strings attached credit card at their disposal.

[Shining One]

Someone who's not interested doesn't accept the date invite.

That's not true. Here is one example. People can accept dates for various reasons despite not having interest in the other person.

[mjkcal]

Someone who's not interested doesn't accept the date invite.

 

If her interest changes on the date, that's still on you.

 

That's where I disagree. If a girl asks me out (blind date), and by the end of a dinner I know I'm not interested, there is no way I'm letting her pick up my part of the check. I'd feel like garbage about that. I wouldn't view it as "on her." We both took a shot and it didn't work.

 

That's just my view though, obviously other disagree. Actually, many. It's probably just something I'll have to mitigate the best I can with inexpensive first dates and move forward from there.

[mjkcal]

Actually no, that's not true, there are women who will take this for a free meal at a good place, one of the ways they rationalize this is 'well, he is getting the pleasure of my company'.

The above example, i heard it in private discussion with a woman who was in a relationship with another woman, and her decision to go for it was not based on needing a beard, and she would insist on a restaurant.

There are other examples, but generally speaking if you put her on a pedestal ... some will take advantage of it and not feel any guilt for it [through the above mentioned rationalizations].

 

So it's best to conserve your assets.

 

As far as i'm interested, if i'm on a date and she insists she goes 'there', with heavy hints ... morally she should offer to pay for it [and insist]; unfortunately these types tend to believe that for the next few hs they have a no strings attached credit card at their disposal.

 

Exactly. I've learned this the hard way. As a general rule, unless she makes it clear she is going to pay, if a girl is super insistent on a certain upscale place as a first date, I won't accept. I've been taken this way before. Many are searching for a free meal as you state. It's naive to think, "well, she accepted, so she's into me." Only if it were so simple. This is what I'm trying to guard against.

[katiegrl]

A walk as a first date?

 

Nope.

 

I am wondering ... is the OP talking about a first *meet* with a gal he met on line? If so, I disagree Rose, I think meeting outdoors on a beautiful day and getting some ice cream or home-made apple pie would be ideal!

 

A walk by the ocean or lovely park, feeding the ducks, some cheese and wine would also be super nice.

 

I would not need to be "wined and dined" on a first meet/date nor would I expect a man to do so.

 

Frankly, I think a woman expecting that on a first meet/date indicates an entitlement attitude.

[mjkcal]

I am wondering ... is the OP talking about a first *meet* with a gal he met on line? If so, I disagree Rose, I think meeting outdoors on a beautiful day and getting some ice cream or home-made apple pie would be ideal!

 

A walk by the ocean or lovely park, feeding the ducks, some cheese and wine would also be super nice.

 

I would not need to be "wined and dined" on a first meet/date nor would I expect a man to do so.

 

Frankly, I think a woman expecting that on a first meet/date indicates an entitlement attitude.

 

You are correct, this is what I'm talking about. I should have made that more clear earlier. Generally it's a first time meet with a girl from online. I'm trying to get better at meeting women in real life, but I'm finding that tougher in my 30s and am looking to join clubs and groups to help...but that's another matter Thank you for that perspective, its refreshing to hear!

[Popsicle]

Like it or not, the burden to pay on a first date nearly always falls on the guy. On occasion, a girl will step up and pay half which is greatly appreciated. This is the ways things are. I know this, I accept this. I don't mind paying for a girl if she has a genuine interest in me by the end of the date.

 

What really bothers me is when on a first date, a girl allows you to pay for her if she has no interest. I think this is extremely unethical, but I've found it happens quite often.

 

I suppose this is more of a mini-rant than anything else. I know not all women are like this, but there are far more than I wish there were.

 

Does anyone have any strategies to deal with this type of situation on a first date?

 

I struggle with understanding why women go out with men they are not physically attracted to.

 

But...if a woman finds herself on a date with a man she was initially unsure about and was trying to give it a chance, but determined on the first date that this was not going to work, she should most definitely pay for herself.