How to cope when your partner's first language is different than yours?? Causing rift

[ToThinkIs]

Im sure this has been discussed before but couldnt find the old thread.

 

Anyway so Ive been dating this guy about 6-7 weeks. My native tongue is English (i speak a couple others conversationally-ish). My boyfriend's mother tongue is NOT english, though he speaks it as a second language. he is quite fluent and adept at it when written (eg-texting, emails) and he uses it in his daily work, however, at the end of the day the fact that our relationship is in english (i do not speak his native tongue) is causing a strain. He actually told me recently he considered breaking up with me because he feels incompetent when trying to speak to me, which is odd as he speaks really well. I suppose he feels he is unable to reach a truly deep, meaningful, philosophical/intellectual level of speech when he is in English, like he can do in his native language. I get it, I really do. If I had to have an emotional relationship in my second or third language it would be frustrating.

 

Other than this language concern for him, this relationship so far has been amazing-- he's one of the sweetest, most amazing guys. He's a bit held back emotionally, but lately I think it's because he has convinced himself that he just can't express himself properly in English. I mean, it's gotten to where he's telling himself it means doom for our future as a couple because it'll prevent us from reaching "true deep meaning" -- he feels he struggles to speak at as high a level as I do, and that this prevents me from seeing his true entire personality. He feels like I am seeing only a small part of him because he cant say all the intricacies, nuances, cultural elements, slang, etc in English that he can do in his native language.

 

On some level I understand his frustration, but on others I feel like communication is more than just words and if we both like each other in every other way, then why throw away a good thing, especially after only a couple of months?

 

I managed to convince him not to break up with me for now, I guess, but while I know he really likes me I suspect its going to be difficult for him to get over this insecurity that he is "not good enough" when he has to speak only in English.

 

I'm hoping to hear from others who have had to maintain a romantic relationship where one person spoke their native language and the other spoke this same language as their second language, and how it worked out, what hurdles you had and how you got over them.

 

I really am growing to care about him immensely and feel that it would be a shame to give up some an amazing potential just because we both don't speak English to mother tongue level. I'm sure if he practiced more often it would improve with time, though he doesnt think so.

 

help! ive convinced him to stick around for now despite this insecurity, but Im not sure it'll last if he keeps feeling inadequate about it.

[yxalitis]

*Crack's knuckles

Now THIS is a subject I can wade in on...

I have dated Asian woman (as anyone who reads my posts is WELL aware) almost exclusively for two years.

Most of them had poor to average English.

Is it a problem when you can speak to each other, but NOT get each other's culture, don't understand pop culture references, don't know the history of your partners country...

Yes.

Is it insurmountable, a deal breaker?

No.

You need to be able to understand each other clearly when:

You have a disagreement.

You tell each other how you feel about something important.

When you are talking about your core values and believes.

You do not have to be able to discuss philosophy, or ancient Greek history, or advance plasma mechanics. (Unless those things are incredibly important to you).

Can you watch a movie or TV show together, and discuss finer points of the plot? Can he WATCH English shows at all?

 

However, HE is the one who feels unable to connect.

I'm not sure, and I hate to judge on this little evidence, but I feel he is using that as an excuse.

You can most certainly express your love and feelings for a person without words...the look in the eyes, the way he holds you, makes love to you, cares for you.

I do not understand what he means by "true deep meaning"! What? that he loves you and cares for you? How can he NOT express that?

Maybe he is very intelligent, and feels the need for high level conversation, but can't due to the language barrier?

I'd hardly call that a relationship deal breaker!

Except..intelligent people pick up languages faster...

 

My first Chinese girlfriend had been in Australia for 3 years when I met her, her ability to speak and write English was...appalling (grammar errors).

However, because she was a bright cookie, she understood spoken English very well we could watch and discuss even quite cerebral shows like True Detective, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, etc.

The second girl was better at speaking, but couldn't watch tv without subtitles, as most of it "went over her head" she and I failed to communicate, and it lead to the end of that relationship.

So, ask yourself WHAT it is you can't communicate about, if you can honestly and openly discuss aspects of your relationship...like this exact subject, without difficulty..then I don't know what the problem is..

 

Put it this way, he has sufficient English to TELL you that he is struggling to find a deeper connection...that just doesn't add up to me.

Edited July 6, 2015 by yxalitis

[SammySammy]

Is learning his language something you would like to do?

Edited July 6, 2015 by MidKnightDreams

[yxalitis]

Is learning his language something you would like to do?

Sorry, that's unrealistic.

It takes YEARS to learn a language to the level needed to communicate a deep level, and won't help overcome this immediate barrier.

[seixal]

I have the feeling that language, cultural or racial differences in a dysfunctional relationship are often used as a scapegoat when the problem is often of a more personal nature.

[yxalitis]

I have the feeling that language, cultural or racial differences in a dysfunctional relationship are often used as a scapegoat when the problem is often of a more personal nature.

Agree, looks more like this is an example of that...

Not "dysfunctional" but he's not really into it.

Maybe..hard to tell

[Fleur de cactus]

Languages is an excuse to break up with you. This is a silly reason I ever heard. English is a third language for me and only a food person can use language as a way to end a relationship, and think that people will believe him/her. He never loved you. Just find someone else.

[joseb]

I've dated a couple of girls whose native tongue wasn't English

Similar to a previous post, one had terrible written English but spoken was good.

The other was Just ok at both. I never felt that language was much of an issue

 

I kinda agree. Sounds like he's not that happy and maybe (consciously or not) using the language barrier as an excuse.

[yxalitis]

Funny enough, we haven't heard back from the OP yet...

[ToThinkIs]

*Crack's knuckles

Now THIS is a subject I can wade in on...

I have dated Asian woman (as anyone who reads my posts is WELL aware) almost exclusively for two years.

Most of them had poor to average English.

Is it a problem when you can speak to each other, but NOT get each other's culture, don't understand pop culture references, don't know the history of your partners country...

Yes.

Is it insurmountable, a deal breaker?

No.

You need to be able to understand each other clearly when:

You have a disagreement.

You tell each other how you feel about something important.

When you are talking about your core values and believes.

You do not have to be able to discuss philosophy, or ancient Greek history, or advance plasma mechanics. (Unless those things are incredibly important to you).

Can you watch a movie or TV show together, and discuss finer points of the plot? Can he WATCH English shows at all?

 

However, HE is the one who feels unable to connect.

I'm not sure, and I hate to judge on this little evidence, but I feel he is using that as an excuse.

You can most certainly express your love and feelings for a person without words...the look in the eyes, the way he holds you, makes love to you, cares for you.

I do not understand what he means by "true deep meaning"! What? that he loves you and cares for you? How can he NOT express that?

Maybe he is very intelligent, and feels the need for high level conversation, but can't due to the language barrier?

I'd hardly call that a relationship deal breaker!

Except..intelligent people pick up languages faster...

 

My first Chinese girlfriend had been in Australia for 3 years when I met her, her ability to speak and write English was...appalling (grammar errors).

However, because she was a bright cookie, she understood spoken English very well we could watch and discuss even quite cerebral shows like True Detective, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, etc.

The second girl was better at speaking, but couldn't watch tv without subtitles, as most of it "went over her head" she and I failed to communicate, and it lead to the end of that relationship.

So, ask yourself WHAT it is you can't communicate about, if you can honestly and openly discuss aspects of your relationship...like this exact subject, without difficulty..then I don't know what the problem is..

 

Put it this way, he has sufficient English to TELL you that he is struggling to find a deeper connection...that just doesn't add up to me.

 

Yes i understand what you are saying-- i dont think it has anything to do with me or how he feels about me. He's often said I'm "special" "different than other girls" he's dated, and that he loves everything about me. When he told me he wanted to break up I said fine, but please just tell me that it's because there's something about me or the relationship that doesnt work for you so I can understand, and he insisted it had nothing to do with me because Im amazing, beautiful, smart, funny, etc and that if he said it had anything to do with me just not being "the one" he'd say it, but it isn't. We had a three hour conversation about this last night.

 

What it seems to come down to is probably he has an incredible insecurity about this language issue (and if i'm going to duelve deeper psychologically then likely this insecurity itself stems from his own issues, but that's another story)

 

Anyway, as you said above, he IS a very intellectual person. Without going into details to retain anonymity, the guy is considered a genius in his own right. Incredibly well educated, and people in his career history are not and cannot be stupid. To be honest, I am also of the intellectual sort who thrives on deep, meaningful, philosophical, intricate conversations with fancy words. I have a very high command of the spoken english language, and I imagine he has the same eloquence in his native tongue. He speaks English FAR better than I speak any of my other languages (and I'm fairly proficient in them). When he WRITES in english you would not even know it is a second language for him-- he uses above average vocabulary, no grammatical errors, etc. But for some reason when he speaks he becomes incredibly insecure about it. It ends up causing a whole chicken and egg situation whereby the insecurity causes negative feelings regarding his ability which in turn causes further insecurity and makes it harder for him.

 

I have to say that I understand, in a way, where he is coming from-- as I said, if I had to maintain an emotional relationship in my second or third languages it would be frustrating. I would in no way be able to express myself as poetically, intricately, eloquently as I can in English. But i think his insecurity about the issue makes the problem far worse than it should be, because really, his English is not bad by any definition. And I think if he was more relaxed about it would improve verbally tremendously because he does have a good base.

 

We can watch movies together, yes. Occasionally with certain weird American or British accents he prefers subtitles to help him out but mostly he doesnt need them. He can read and write very well as I mentioned above. He understands everything I say, unless I use some really obscure fancy word, but in that case half of english speakers don't understand those either anyway.

 

I guess what I want is to find a way to make him feel more relaxed about it and in turn this will improve the energy being put around between us. I could tell something was bothering him but couldn't put my finger on it. Trust me when I said that I know it has nothing to do with him just not wanting to be with me-- if that were the case he could have just left yesterday when we had this long talk about breaking up. It is quite clearly this issue that is bothering him. I just don't know how to get him to see that it is not an insurmountable one.

[ToThinkIs]

Is learning his language something you would like to do?

 

I would love to learn his language, but I would be starting from scratch essentially (i know bits and phrases in his language but cannot have a conversation). I don't think this would help our immediate relationship progression, and it would be years before I was really proficient. Certainly I know people who have been trying to learn his language and after 4 years most of them can function on a day to day basis, have basic conversation, work conversations, but I think emotionally MOST people still don't master it after a while. I would have to live in his country another 5-10 years to get to a fluency in which we are able to have the deep conversations he hopes for.

 

So while I have every desire to learn it, and have been trying, it's not going to help me anytime soon I'm afraid. It's much more likely for him to improve his English since he has such a proficient base and ability in this already.

[ToThinkIs]

I have the feeling that language, cultural or racial differences in a dysfunctional relationship are often used as a scapegoat when the problem is often of a more personal nature.

 

This is true in many regards-- it is not the case here, i assure you. I think the only reason he has even been trying so hard this long is because he likes me a lot and wants it to work but the frustration of this language issue is getting to him. He mentioned this issue on our first date, and I brushed it off I suppose because he never mentioned it again and his actions have all otherwise indicated he was happy to be with me. He had , as I said in another post, every opportunity to tell me that it's just not working for him for other reasons, but he didn't. He continued to insist it was this one thing bothering him. He comes from a culture in which being blunt is the norm-- this isn't polite British society ;-)

 

Anyway I can't get into more details but you'll have to trust me on this one.

[ToThinkIs]

Agree, looks more like this is an example of that...

Not "dysfunctional" but he's not really into it.

Maybe..hard to tell

 

 

If he's not really into it then going on holidays (that he initiates, I never ask for anything) with me every other weekend and constantly telling me how amazingly special I am are probably counter-productive to tryng to break up with me :-) THere is nothing he wants or gains by lying to me about liking me. If he wanted out because he just wasn't into it, or i wasn't "the one", he could have easily told me that last night as I quite clearly said I preferred that explanation because it made sense if he's just not that into me. But he kept insisting that's not the case and bringing up this issue, and at the end of this lengthy conversation, decided to give it another go to see if we can go past it (though I see he is skeptical that this particular issue will improve), though the fact that he's willing to try I suppose means something....trust me, I am not a neurotic, yelling, crying sort of woman. Yes I was upset when he said he thought we should break up over this, but I didnt beg or plead or cry hysterically. I did get teary eyes and quietly cry a bit while talking a couple of times but he had every opportunity to just leave if he wanted. He didn/t.

[loveweary11]

I'd definitely learn his language.

 

There are a few words in any language that don't have direct translation. You could use a hybrid of the two languages to have deeper conversations.

 

I'm reminded of a girl I was seeing from Italy. She had this absolutely magnetic, captivating personality. People were drawn to her. I had all these words to try to describe that in English. In Italian, there is one word for it: Animatore.

[Arieswoman]

ToThinkIs,

 

I call BS on this ;-

 

He actually told me recently he considered breaking up with me because he feels incompetent when trying to speak to me, which is odd as he speaks really well.

 

What does he want to discuss with you - nuclear physics ?

 

I think it's an excuse to end the relationship - sorry.

[ToThinkIs]

Languages is an excuse to break up with you. This is a silly reason I ever heard. English is a third language for me and only a food person can use language as a way to end a relationship, and think that people will believe him/her. He never loved you. Just find someone else.

 

I agree that it shouldnt be a reason to leave after barely two months of dating, however, not everyone perceives the same things as important in a relationship. Ive seen couples of different language levels and just being together was enough and they didnt require the intellectual stimulation needed by intricate conversations in a common language. Others, however, need that more. It is tricky.

 

As an example-- I dated a guy briefly last summer who spoke English but not very well. We could have very basic conversations but I could see that at least half of what I said went right over his head. We had fun sex but outside of that dinner conversations and the like were pretty dull, empty, and full of awkward long pauses.

 

It frustrated me IMMENSELY to not be able to have meaningful conversations with this person and in the end didn't care much that we ended it. He became more of a fling to me, and it was because of the communication.

 

With this particular current partner, his english is miles and miles above the guy from last year. The guy from last year could barely write anything properly. The guy this year is eloquent in his written speech to a degree you would not know he was speaking a second language. he understands pretty much everything I say. He understands 90% of my sarcasm and almost all my jokes, aside from the occasional vague pop=culture reference from my youth that he might not be familiar with or some such thing. And yet because HE is unable to say everything he wants to say (he explained it like, he has the thought of what he wants to say in his head in his language, and cannot seem to let it come out in an equivalent manner in english....he feels as if there is some filter in his mouth that takes his high-level native language thoughts and translates them into some kind of plebeian low-level english). He is very hard on himself-- again, I think he's much better able to express himself than he gives himself credit for.

[ToThinkIs]

I've dated a couple of girls whose native tongue wasn't English

Similar to a previous post, one had terrible written English but spoken was good.

The other was Just ok at both. I never felt that language was much of an issue

 

I kinda agree. Sounds like he's not that happy and maybe (consciously or not) using the language barrier as an excuse.

 

This is a funny thing I have noticed (and maybe it is just a matter of who responds.) I've often noticed that men who date women who can't speak English, they don't seem to care much so long as they have a good physical attraction and the girl is basically sweet overall and a nice person. But the intellectual connection is not as important.

 

i find it different on the other end-- intellectual women dating men who's english is not on par are usually much more disgruntled, perhaps due to lack of emotional connection. Women NEED words and is why we are more emotional/like to talk about our feelings/etc. Men need stimulation via other means. it's basic nature.

 

I find this interesting because in this case, he is an intelligent man who is trying to communicate in english, and I am an intelligent woman of native English capability and he feels that I am above him in this regard and it seems to bother him. I start to wonder-- if we had our relationship in HIS native tongue, and I was the one with less language skills, would it bother him less? It's an interesting thought that perhaps the fact that he feels I am above him in this sense bothers his ego.

 

Anyway, carry on.

[SammySammy]

What is his first language, if you don't mind me asking?

[ToThinkIs]

I'd definitely learn his language.

 

There are a few words in any language that don't have direct translation. You could use a hybrid of the two languages to have deeper conversations.

 

I'm reminded of a girl I was seeing from Italy. She had this absolutely magnetic, captivating personality. People were drawn to her. I had all these words to try to describe that in English. In Italian, there is one word for it: Animatore.

 

Again, I have been trying to learn his language, but it is not an easy language to learn-- it is not one of the romance languages (eg- Italian, French, etc) and bears no resemblance whatsoever to English, so it's a bit difficult. I'm starting basically with a blank slate. I have been living in his country for work reasons for several years and can get by on day to day issues and know cultural nuances (some of them) and a smattering of words and phrases but by no means am I proficient or anywhere close to how good he is in English.

 

So I can keep trying but I dont think it'll be fluent anytime soon

[ToThinkIs]

ToThinkIs,

 

I call BS on this ;-

 

 

 

What does he want to discuss with you - nuclear physics ?

 

I think it's an excuse to end the relationship - sorry.

 

AriesWoman,

 

I can see how you would see this, but again as I've said in my other posts, he had every opportunity to end things with me last night and to just tell me he just doesn't feel its working out and Im not the one. He didnt, and in fact kept insisting he adores me and kept bringing it back to this one topic. If it was just an excuse to end things, he certainly didn't have to sit there struggling to explain the language insecurity he feels over a 3+ hour conversation, I'm sorry. I'm the one sitting here interacting with him, looking into his eyes, seeing how he acts when he touches me. These are things you don't have , I understand, in order for you to make an accurate assessment and all you have to go on is what I tell you. And I agree with you that people often make up excuses to get out of a relationship, but I gave him every opportunity to leave yesterday and he didnt. So I dont know. I dont want to keep repeating stuff, so you can read my other responses. :-)

[elaine567]

It all depends on the couple involved.

Some couples exist on a purely superficial level, they love, they work, they play, they have sex, they eat, they sleep, they watch TV, they never have really deep conversations.

Deep conversations can be seen by some as not something they ever have or are even to be avoided.

 

Sometimes it works well and the relationship just continues at a superficial level, but if one partner wants more, a deeper connection, then it leads to discord, a lack of real understanding, resentment and a split.

 

Your bf is obviously a man who needs to understand more about you as a person and wants to engage in deep thinking with you, but is feeling lost as his language skills are not up to deciphering the cultural nuances and plays on words that native English speakers take for granted and you are not up to understanding the intricacies of his language either.

Having a good relationship is hard, communication between two people who speak the same language can be nightmare, add in different languages then the capacity for misunderstandings is huge, even if you do apparently talk things through.

 

I guess if he is missing something so fundamental to him, in this relationship, then his desire to split is perfectly understandable. Sorry!

[ToThinkIs]

What is his first language, if you don't mind me asking?

 

I think telling you this is too many details to make me comfortable ;-) But suffice to say it is not an easily-learned romance language like french, italian, or spanish. It has no resemblance to english. It has a different alphabet and the language itself is a very old one with unique and interesting nuances. Please don't take guesses here on what it is because I'd prefer not to confirm or deny, but just take my word for it that it's not one of the easier ones to learn.

 

I love learning it and learning about it, but despite my being here a while, I still havent mastered it (part of that is my fault-- i didn't try enough because i can get away by speaking English and my second language here pretty well). My second language happens to be very widely spoken here (kind of like how spanish is very widely spoken in America or French is widely spoken in Canada). Between english and my second language, i got a bit lazy and haven't learned the national language here (the one he speaks natively) as much as I should have. C'est la vie, eh?

[ToThinkIs]

It all depends on the couple involved.

Some couples exist on a purely superficial level, they love, they work, they play, they have sex, they eat, they sleep, they watch TV, they never have really deep conversations.

Deep conversations can be seen by some as not something they ever have or are even to be avoided.

 

Sometimes it works well and the relationship just continues at a superficial level, but if one partner wants more, a deeper connection, then it leads to discord, a lack of real understanding, resentment and a split.

 

Your bf is obviously a man who needs to understand more about you as a person and wants to engage in deep thinking with you, but is feeling lost as his language skills are not up to deciphering the cultural nuances and plays on words that native English speakers take for granted and you are not up to understanding the intricacies of his language either.

Having a good relationship is hard, communication between two people who speak the same language can be nightmare, add in different languages then the capacity for misunderstandings is huge, even if you do apparently talk things through.

 

I guess if he is missing something so fundamental to him, in this relationship, then his desire to split is perfectly understandable. Sorry!

 

I agree. I think his concerns are very reasonable. he basically said to me he tried to have a relationship with an english speaker before, and he felt it was a problem for almost a year and he kept tryng and trying and it made him feel worse and he told himself he'd never date another english speaker. Then he met me and liked me so much that he thought he'd try it again and after a couple of months became worried again that he was falling into the same situation where he was unable to deeply connect the way he wanted. Then again, he also admitted he has difficult connecting with women on this level in general, so I think maybe this problem is compounded by the language issue and maybe it's not really the language that's bothering him in the end, but rather his own inability to be as emotional as he wants overall. Who knows.

 

Look, what can I do. He decided to stick around a bit longer because he likes me. I'm glad for that. I hope he tries to be a bit more open with me about his concerns like he was last night, because he hasn't been that open the last few weeks we have been dating. Maybe being more open will encourage better communication overall and make him more keen to not be so insecure about the language difference for now.

 

I think it's a pity and a waste for two people who get along as well as we do to just throw it away because he can't have shakespearian english conversations right away. It's not like we are living off of hand gestures to communicate.

 

I suppose I'm hoping that with a bit more time, openness, and trust we can get past this insecurity, because i think frankly it's not just the language issue but his own insecurities about himself. I don't think it literally has anything to do with his feelings for me, because as we all know communication and emotions are not just about words-- i see in his eyes, his smile, the way he touches me and acts around me that there is something between us. I just hope to be able to cultivate it despite the language insecurity. Im not sure I've figured out the perfect way to do this but im trying.

[Gaeta]

Again, I have been trying to learn his language, but it is not an easy language to learn-- it is not one of the romance languages (eg- Italian, French, etc) and bears no resemblance whatsoever to English, so it's a bit difficult. I'm starting basically with a blank slate. I have been living in his country for work reasons for several years and can get by on day to day issues and know cultural nuances (some of them) and a smattering of words and phrases but by no means am I proficient or anywhere close to how good he is in English.

 

So I can keep trying but I dont think it'll be fluent anytime soon

 

Bingo!

 

I read this whole thread thinking he was the one living in YOUR country but it's the other way around. YOU are the foreigner here ! He doesn't want to date a foreigner anymore, he finds it too limiting and miss you 2 having common references. Let him go.....He doesn't have what it takes to date a foreigner.

 

ETA: It's more than just not speaking his language. It's about not being able to immerse yourself in his culture, it's about not speaking his parents-family-friends language, it's about little things like always having to watch movies in English and having his language in subtitle, and the list goes on.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Gaeta

[elaine567]

Bingo!

 

I read this whole thread thinking he was the one living in YOUR country but it's the other way around. YOU are the foreigner here ! He doesn't want to date a foreigner anymore, he finds it too limiting and miss you 2 having common references. Let him go.....He doesn't have what it takes to date a foreigner.

ETA: It's more than just not speaking his language. It's about not being able to immerse yourself in his culture, it's about not speaking his parents-family-friends language, it's about little things like always having to watch movies in English and having his language in subtitle, and the list goes on.

 

^^^I think you may be right there.