Clarify or let it drop?

[Zapbasket]

I have gone on a couple of dates with a guy from work over the past several weeks. I'm in a place right now in my life where I'm finalizing some recovery from a breakup that happened a while ago and focusing on making some key life changes and so I don't want to get involved in a full-blown relationship. But, I don't want to close off any options.

 

I was very up front with the guy about this, and he said he understood. I do get the impression though that he is hoping to win me over, and while I'm not closed off to that idea, my intent in communicating this with him was to say, "I'm focusing on myself right now."

 

The past several weeks have been super-busy with work and social engagements and there were several times where he tried to call me, but my voice mailbox was full. This led to him calling me at 5:20 p.m. on Sunday and not leaving me a message. I was out and not checking my phone when he called, and once I got home it was too late for me to call as he has to get to work very early (7am). When I saw him this morning, he told me that he didn't leave a message because my voice mailbox was full. He said he was going to ask me to join him and some visiting family friends for dinner that evening. I said, "Oh no! I deleted a bunch of messages so I don't understand how that could be!"

 

I then checked my voicemail, and it was not at all full. I sent him a text telling him so, and he texted back, "Well, I was frustrated with its history. Sorry about that. I will leave you a message. We need to hang out--I'm missing the dark debutante [his going nickname for me]."

 

And then, a few hours later (i.e., a few minutes ago) he texted me to join him up on the mountain for a ski (we work on a ski mountain). I texted back that I wanted to get out of here on time and was considering going for a run instead if I did, as it would still be daylight. He then texted back, "Lawd have mercy! I'm going to quit asking. JJ."

 

I could be reading too much into it, but I fear there's a subtext here where he's finding me not as available as he would like. When I told him a week or so ago that I wasn't ready to get involved in anything yet but liked him and wanted to spend time with him, he said, "Used to be I'd never wait around for someone who said this. but I can be patient."

 

I'm trying to be better at holding my ground in dating in hopes that when I do get into a relationship again, it's with someone who truly is into me and meets me halfway in the important things like intimacy and communication. So here's a chance for me to practice. I don't feel I'm in the "wrong" in any way. Am I? In fact, I find it a little...lame...that he'd wait until 5:20 p.m. on the day of to ask me for dinner, and then hang up in a huff without leaving a message just because I didn't answer (as I said, I was out and did not get his call). I'm picking up on a vibe from him via these communications that I don't like. Why should I bend over backwards to be 100% available at all times when I was very clear (or so I thought) with him that that's not where I am emotionally?

 

Can you guys advise me on how best to handle this? Am I seeing the situation correctly?

[preraph]

If you are not ready to date, then quit dating. You can't really expect a guy to want to put up with standoffishness and disinterest and inconsiderateness but keep on dating you. You're being controlling. If he says A, you say B. IF you answer at all. No one is going to put up with that, so stop dating until you're ready to wade in with both feet.

[evanescentworld]

If you are not ready to date, then quit dating. You can't really expect a guy to want to put up with standoffishness and disinterest and inconsiderateness but keep on dating you. You're being controlling. If he says A, you say B. IF you answer at all. No one is going to put up with that, so stop dating until you're ready to wade in with both feet.

 

In addition to this sound and sensible advice (if you're still 'finalizing some recovery from a breakup that happened a while ago' you really shouldn't be subjecting guys to your push-pull emotional roller-coaster sentiments. It's just totally unfair), I would heartily and emphatically advise you to NOT date anyone within your professional working circle.

 

It's just a really bad idea to date a work colleague - if things become heavy, then any subsequent possible break-up is going to become almost impossible to negotiate and the situation will become at best, uncomfortable, at worst intolerable.

 

And I echo the above. I'm not surprised the guy is giving up.

Your yes/no attitude is really quite frustrating....

[BC1980]

I think you're over analyzing the entire thing way too much. When he asked you to ski, maybe you could have said you could go another time instead of completely saying no. And the dinner date? I wouldn't have told him the voice mail wasn't full. I would have just let that one be.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Cripes...Green Cove/ D.D....I'd get tired of asking, too. What's all this superficial crap/activities/social activities that you cannot set aside at least ONE time for this poor guy? Seriously, quit playing games with him!

 

Also, what's your problem with keeping your voice mail emptied out?

 

I have gone on a couple of dates with a guy from work over the past several weeks. I'm in a place right now in my life where I'm finalizing some recovery from a breakup that happened a while ago and focusing on making some key life changes and so I don't want to get involved in a full-blown relationship. But, I don't want to close off any options.

 

I was very up front with the guy about this, and he said he understood. I do get the impression though that he is hoping to win me over, and while I'm not closed off to that idea, my intent in communicating this with him was to say, "I'm focusing on myself right now."

 

The past several weeks have been super-busy with work and social engagements and there were several times where he tried to call me, but my voice mailbox was full. This led to him calling me at 5:20 p.m. on Sunday and not leaving me a message. I was out and not checking my phone when he called, and once I got home it was too late for me to call as he has to get to work very early (7am). When I saw him this morning, he told me that he didn't leave a message because my voice mailbox was full. He said he was going to ask me to join him and some visiting family friends for dinner that evening. I said, "Oh no! I deleted a bunch of messages so I don't understand how that could be!"

 

I then checked my voicemail, and it was not at all full. I sent him a text telling him so, and he texted back, "Well, I was frustrated with its history. Sorry about that. I will leave you a message. We need to hang out--I'm missing the dark debutante [his going nickname for me]."

 

And then, a few hours later (i.e., a few minutes ago) he texted me to join him up on the mountain for a ski (we work on a ski mountain). I texted back that I wanted to get out of here on time and was considering going for a run instead if I did, as it would still be daylight. He then texted back, "Lawd have mercy! I'm going to quit asking. JJ."

 

I could be reading too much into it, but I fear there's a subtext here where he's finding me not as available as he would like. When I told him a week or so ago that I wasn't ready to get involved in anything yet but liked him and wanted to spend time with him, he said, "Used to be I'd never wait around for someone who said this. but I can be patient."

 

I'm trying to be better at holding my ground in dating in hopes that when I do get into a relationship again, it's with someone who truly is into me and meets me halfway in the important things like intimacy and communication. So here's a chance for me to practice. I don't feel I'm in the "wrong" in any way. Am I? In fact, I find it a little...lame...that he'd wait until 5:20 p.m. on the day of to ask me for dinner, and then hang up in a huff without leaving a message just because I didn't answer (as I said, I was out and did not get his call). I'm picking up on a vibe from him via these communications that I don't like. Why should I bend over backwards to be 100% available at all times when I was very clear (or so I thought) with him that that's not where I am emotionally?

 

Can you guys advise me on how best to handle this? Am I seeing the situation correctly?

[Zapbasket]

I think you're over analyzing the entire thing way too much. When he asked you to ski, maybe you could have said you could go another time instead of completely saying no. And the dinner date? I wouldn't have told him the voice mail wasn't full. I would have just let that one be.

 

I said I couldn't ski with him bc I couldn't: I was at work, which is at a desk in an office, and while I do try to go out for a ski every day given I work in the ski industry, sometimes the demands of my job prevent that. Also, i make up the time for my ski breaks by staying late at my desk. He understands that, which was why it rubbed me the wrong way that he replied, "Lawd! I'm going to quit asking."

 

I am not trying to play any games with him or anyone else. I thought I was being straightforward in explaining that I was recovering from a breakup. I am 38 and he is 45 and I guess I thought people our age would understand a desire to be cautious when reentering the dating scene. I feel I was pretty clear with him. I have now experienced enough with him to say I don't think we are compatible, and I am only interested in him as a friend. I plan to tell him so so that he has no false expectations.

 

I feel like the guys who responded here think I should have just said nothing. I think THAT would have been disingenuous. It seems that these things are precisely what you have to negotiate if you want an authentic relationship of any kind. If he feels confused as to why I can't or won't just drop everything for him, he can always ask.

 

The reason my mailbox was often full is because over the holidays I work two jobs and was receiving messages faster than I could wade through them. He knows how busy a time it is and that I was working 20 days in a row, having to be at work by 6 am. Why couldn't he be more patient? I don't see how I did anything wrong.

[Poppygoodwill]

Look, it's one thing to tell someone in theory that you don't want to get into a serious relationship, it's another to spell out what that means on a day to day basis.

 

I suspect you're assuming too much of his understanding of your state of mind. And like it or not, if you are dating him and being physical with him, you have entered into a tacit agreement that you will make time for him in your life.

 

If you don't want to make time for him, then stop seeing him altogether. You're trying to exist in the middle - one foot in, one foot out the door - and while it might be clear and correct in your head, it's an awfully difficult thing for another person to keep up with. Because essentially you will define what is 'in' and what is 'out' as you go...ie. not skiing when I'd rather run; not hanging out after a long day; etc etc. How can he be expected to keep up?

 

I have dated - or rather tried to date - someone before who said they wanted to spend time with me, but then didn't make themselves available. Over time I felt that everything was on his terms and became quite resentful. Which is when I walked away.

 

If this guy means anything to you, then at least commit to spending regular time with him out of respect for him and the time he's willing to give you.

 

If you don't want to do that, then fine. Just break it off so he's not frustrated and feeling like he's your lowest priority.

 

in sum: if you're not ready to date then don't.

[Ebelskiver]

I've had men do this to me a number of times.....tell me they weren't ready for a relationship. But in those cases the guys actually did spend time with me and shower me with affection, and they thought that saying they didn't want a relationshop was enough when they were very much acting as if they wanted one.

 

Your situation is a bit different, I get the sense you sent out more of a "I need to take it slow" vibe but then have shot him down at every turn. Probably would have been best to just tell him "no". It's hard to get that one wrong.

[Zapbasket]

I've had men do this to me a number of times.....tell me they weren't ready for a relationship. But in those cases the guys actually did spend time with me and shower me with affection, and they thought that saying they didn't want a relationshop was enough when they were very much acting as if they wanted one.

 

Your situation is a bit different, I get the sense you sent out more of a "I need to take it slow" vibe but then have shot him down at every turn. Probably would have been best to just tell him "no". It's hard to get that one wrong.

 

But I haven't shot him down at every turn! We met in mid-December. I went out for drinks with him twice, casually and one on one, a group of us spent New Year's Eve together at a cabin, I went one one dinner date with him, and one ski date followed by drinks and dinner. I have not once so much as made out with him and he hasn't tried to make a move. I did all this while working a solid 20-plus days in a row. And of course I have one foot in and one out: I am not committed to him and it would be unfair and frankly weird of him to expect that. This week he invited me to meet his family and I was not comfortable with that so I turned down the invite. I feel he thinks he is interested in me, but when we spend time together he never asks me about my life or experience, mainly telling me about himself. When I have tried to share my experience with him, he never asks follow-up questions and doesn't look particularly interested in what I have said. This is why my interest has waned and now that I know I am not interested I plan to cut him loose.

 

I really don't see that I have done anything wrong. I feel like people are projecting their experiences with unavailable partners onto me. I have been pretty available to him, I think, and given him an honest chance; not my fault that his self- absorption, while good-natured, has turned me off. I don't understand how not agreeing to dinner when he has waited until 5:20 pm on the day of to invite me when I live 30 miles away from the restaurant and have to leave the house for a 10-hour work day less than 12 hours later constitutes me "shooting him down." Really? It's too much to expect someone in the early stages of dating to plan ahead?

[rocketman122]

I really don't see that I have done anything wrong

And thats the problem

[Zapbasket]

I really don't see that I have done anything wrong

And thats the problem

 

Then please enlighten me.

[rocketman122]

People here have done that already. Youre just locked in your mind that u did nothing wrong. U did. Read again.

Btw wHen u go out do u pay half? U dont want anything serious but youre more than happy he spend money on you so u can have a good time. Shame hes not smart enough to see whats going on

Edited January 31, 2015 by rocketman122

[Zapbasket]

People here have done that already. Youre just locked in your mind that u did nothing wrong. U did. Read again.

Btw wHen u go out do u pay half? U dont want anything serious but youre more than happy he spend money on you so u can have a good time. Shame hes not smart enough to see whats going on

 

I am open to seeing how I could have been better at communicating but it is hard to take advice seriously when it's couched in wild assumptions. Nowhere did I mention who paid for whom. I paid for movie tickets for the two of us and even picked them up in advance. They cost more than the dinner he paid for. I paid for both our lunches on the mountain when we went skiing and he made us dinner at his place. I paid for our drinks when we met for drinks. See how making ASSumptions isn't productive? If you have productive advice for me I am all ears. If you are bent on being rude please post elsewhere. You might want to work on your spelling and grammar while you're at it.

[Eaglestar83]

Dear OP

 

Your entire approach towards dating seems UN-workable. One is either ready to date properly, put in the appropriate time and effort it takes to build a relationship, and get to know the other person or they are not. I don't see how you can work around this concept of "am not really ready, but am open minded to the possibility". That's not really dating, more attention seeking to be brutally honest.

 

We've all been hurt in previous relationships, no point in going round in circles though, from dumpee to dumper to dumpee, then back to dumper again!!! lather, rinse, wash then repeat!!!

[Zapbasket]

Okay, I just won't date, then. I should have completely blown this guy off from the get-go and not even have tried to get to know him. I clearly suck at this and should do every guy a favor and remove myself from the dating pool altogether. Done.

 

Sometimes you don't know how things will affect you until you put yourself out there and try. I felt very hurt and betrayed by my previous relationship and I have been working as hard as I can to process the feelings and put it behind me. I thought I was as honest and fair with this guy as could possibly be. It is evident that I just can't get on with the opposite sex; everything I do backfires and I give up.

[Eaglestar83]

Yes, you have been honest, you told him from the outset that you have been hurt and you aren't ready. However, relationships involve feelings etc and without the give and take, it would never work. So if one person isn't ready to give 100%, it will fail.

 

I once dated a girl for 2 months, been intimate (she initiated), went out twice a week at least, but she still wouldn't call it a relationship, she still went on dating sites "just to read the emails" and deliberately trying to control the relationship, telling me we aren't together yet expecting me to take her out on dates, fancy restaurants etc. all apparently because she was hurt in the past and her bf cheated on her. After two months I figured out we really arent together, I ended it cos I had enough and it wasn't worth the investment. She was in tears. The term, "self-fulfilling prophecy" comes to mind

[Zapbasket]

That's not really dating, more attention seeking to be brutally honest.

 

How funny, since I would love nothing more than for him and any other guy right now to want to be my FRIEND. To be more interested in knowing ME than he is in getting MM E to like HIM. To ask questions about my life and understand that of course I am not available always at the drop of a hat to get together when HE wants to, because I have a full life with plans and other relationships and ambitions and if he wants my time he should ask a day in advance, at least, just as I do for others with whom I want to spend time. I know I am pretty, etc.; I don't need or want or seek that kind of attention from men. I am outdoorsy and 90% of the time I don't even wear makeup. Every one of my romantic relationships has started out with them wanting all of my time and being so keen, and me bending over backwards to accommodate them, even moving across the country to be with one of them, and when all wad said and done, none of them really was interested in knowing ME. They were completely uninterested in emotional intimacy and resented that I wanted it. I so would like something different this time.

[preraph]

If your dream guy entered your life right now, would you put him on hold or would you go after him?

[Zapbasket]

Yes, you have been honest, you told him from the outset that you have been hurt and you aren't ready. However, relationships involve feelings etc and without the give and take, it would never work. So if one person isn't ready to give 100%, it will fail.

 

I once dated a girl for 2 months, been intimate (she initiated), went out twice a week at least, but she still wouldn't call it a relationship, she still went on dating sites "just to read the emails" and deliberately trying to control the relationship, telling me we aren't together yet expecting me to take her out on dates, fancy restaurants etc. all apparently because she was hurt in the past and her bf cheated on her. After two months I figured out we really arent together, I ended it cos I had enough and it wasn't worth the investment. She was in tears. The term, "self-fulfilling prophecy" comes to mind

 

And if you'be read, I have paid for more than he has!!! How am I not giving 100%? How does asking me out at the last minute constitute 100% on his end? I feel like you all think I should drop all other obligations in my life just because HE is interested; should I have had sex with him by now, too? Jesus, he is not even very good looking and yet I wanted to learn about h I s personality to see if he could become more attractive that way. And frankly he seems to lack what I am looking for. So should I go on 10 or so more dates whenever he feels like it to be sure I gave given him enough of a chance? Jesus.

[Zapbasket]

If your dream guy entered your life right now, would you put him on hold or would you go after him?

 

Ad I said above, I have been out with the guy enough to know I am not interested and I plan to tell him as soon as I have the opportunity. He is attracted to me but has no interest in learning anything about me when we are together. It is a one-way street where he tells me all about him and changes the subject back onto him when I try to reciprocate. And frankly all this mess about how I should have done this or that and jumped every time he said jump has just mm ad me despair t h at I ever will find someone with whom I can have a relationship with emotional intimacy. Guess I should have gone out to meet this guy's whole family, too.

[Eaglestar83]

So maybe this guy is an idiot and he is not really for you. Still, the point am trying to make here is that you shouldn't let previous hurts make you into a harsh, unavailable person. Learn your lessons from them, be more cautious but don't go the other extreme. Healthy medium would do, if you want a long lasting relationship.

I always make sure I give a girl a good grilling the first few dates, ask all sort of questions and never leave a rock unturned. Talk about getting to know someone, lol

[Eaglestar83]

Negotiating the give and take is the hardest thing. Ultimately we all want someone who would be nice to us, have our back, who would go out of their way for us when the sh.it hits the fan. So don't be harsh on yourself for having been kind in your past relationship just because some juvenile idiot didnt appreciate or reciprocate it. I sure as hell don't like dating a haughty standoffish person

[Zapbasket]

Okay, but how have I been harsh or unavailable? I went on two long one on one dates with him. I paid "my share." I spent time with him in a group and I met him twice for drinks. In all this, I failed to feel a connection. I did this too while not finding him physically attractive because personality goes furthest with me. I should mention also that I initiated a couple of these dates, and one date I drove 30 miles in a snowstorm to meet him where he was. I feel like this whole thread has been me trying to prove that I am not some closed-off jerr who wouldn't give this guy a chance. He is not very smart nor very educated; I overlooked that. I have far more cultural experience than he does and I overlooked that. I even spent an entire evening letting him teach me all about country music; I was genuinely curious and asked him all kinds of questions; and meanwhile I come from a family of musicians, trained all my early life as a musician, and attended one of the top music conservatories in the world and never even mentioned a thing about it except that I play an instrument. Meanwhile, he didn't ask me a thing about that. He is a nice person but I want more than "nice."

 

So how can I give guys a try while being up front that I am not really looking for anything except friendship? You know, it's not just because I am "hurt" that I am reticent. It is because I am trying to make some important life changes and I need to focus on that. I am social and eager to meet new people so how can I stay true to my current needs as a person and still give guys a chance who come into my life? Surely there is a middle ground between refusing to go on any dates to get to know a person and diving in and being an open book to every guy who seems interested?

[BlueIris]

You said that you’ve spent enough time with him to know that you aren’t interested in him romantically anyway- so why the bother? Tell him directly that you don't want to date him, without blaming it on your last relationship. It's more authentic and respectful toward him. I do think that you were difficult to date because you weren’t available enough, and "why" doesn't matter so much as being honest and considerate of him now that you know he's not the one for you.