So, what would say to an unattractive guy in his 40s?

[JuneJulySeptember]

This is actually a serious question. No back and forth b@tching. No gender warring.

 

Let's say you know a guy who is close to you. He is your brother (adopted perhaps ) or very close friend and he is just not traditionally attractive at ALL. Maybe lets say for arguments sake he even has a minor physical deformity. Maybe he's 5 feet tall. You get the point.

 

OLD has been tried and is unlikely to bear fruit.

 

Bars have been tried when he was younger and are even worse.

 

Friends of friends have produced a few results in the midst of many more rejections. However, that avenue is unfortunately closed more or less because the females in extended circles are either married, or have already rejected/met the man. In addition, the friends in that social circle are mostly all married with kids, so it's not much of a social circle anymore.

 

I guess Meetup and little classes, like yoga and stuff is what people are going to suggest. But I'd like people to consider that you're not meeting that many women in those settings and the chances of those women being single AND finding the man attractive are slim.

 

So, if you had a brother/friend in this situation, what would be your advice?

Edited December 17, 2014 by JuneJulySeptember

[central]

Thailand.

 

Or someplace similar.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Thailand.

 

Or someplace similar.

 

Can't speak the language. Looking for somebody COMPATIBLE. Not just a woman.

[carhill]

So, if you had a brother/friend in this situation, what would be your advice?

 

IMO, getting with women as a life goal isn't anywhere near the top of the list. Why agonize over things one has no control over? Even the Cary Grants amongst us have no control over women and getting with them. Focus on life goals that can change the world. Popping out a few little Cary's amongst billions of them isn't going to do that by any stretch. However, when one is young, the idea of, and impetus to make, little clones running around is nature's way of continuing the species and the drive is strong in most people so I would understand my brother's desires. He'll get over it.

[JuneJulySeptember]

IMO, getting with women as a life goal isn't anywhere near the top of the list. Why agonize over things one has no control over? Even the Cary Grants amongst us have no control over women and getting with them. Focus on life goals that can change the world. Popping out a few little Cary's amongst billions of them isn't going to do that by any stretch. However, when one is young, the idea of, and impetus to make, little clones running around is nature's way of continuing the species and the drive is strong in most people so I would understand my brother's desires. He'll get over it.

 

It's not about getting with women. It's about having a partner to enjoy life with.

 

In terms of giving up, yes it's a possibility. But as a guy in that situation, if you give up, you are REALLY giving up. The odds of it happening naturally at that advanced age are slim.

 

I mean, I do know guys in that situation who turn down potential dates/hookups, because they have just totally given up.

 

Let's just say he's not ready to totally give up just yet.

[xxoo]

I'd say relax and focus on building non-romantic relationships. Maybe get a dog and get involved in the dog world. Hey, he could even meet a woman that way! (I know a guy who did) But regardless, he'd have companionship.

[elaine567]

He has to extend his social circle. If the one he has now isn't working, then he has to get out there.

If he is fit then what about walking and hiking groups or cycling maybe, photography, foodie groups, cultural groups, music... etc.

Any group that has some sort of social element to it too.

NO point if the group meets once a week and everyone just goes home, but I mean groups who go to the pub or for pizza afterwards or have bbqs and other events to go to.

The group doesn't need to contain single women, but as long as he keeps meeting people then they may know of sisters/cousins/mothers/friends/relatives who would love to meet a nice steady single guy.

[central]

You've focused on physical attraction (or lack thereof). How about personality, social skills, and demeanor? That could be the bigger - or real - issue.

[carhill]

Let's just say he's not ready to totally give up just yet

My best friend, who's been very successful in life, once opined that 'things get better once you've given up all hope'. At the time I took his words literally and argued one should never give up hope. The wisdom was in the spirit of the words, that being accepting what is and valuing and growing what one has, rather than pining away for what is out of one's control.

 

If your brother/friend is growing what he has, for himself, with the pursuits he's interested in, his focus is on his life, as compared to placing those pursuits at the altar of attracting a mate, something he has absolutely zero control over. Think about it. Until he lies on his deathbed, he'll never know for sure that the mate he thinks he's attracted will disappear at any time. It could be today, it could be tomorrow, it could be the day before he dies, it could be never. It's completely unknown. Why mold one's life to supplicate to the altar of the unknown?

 

If dating and mating happens along life's road, that's fine. If it doesn't, that's fine too. He can die an old man in his bed with a full life, his life, behind him. Where he's going, a woman can't follow anyway. He'll leave her behind. Part of life.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I'd say relax and focus on building non-romantic relationships. Maybe get a dog and get involved in the dog world. Hey, he could even meet a woman that way! (I know a guy who did) But regardless, he'd have companionship.

 

He has to extend his social circle. If the one he has now isn't working, then he has to get out there.

If he is fit then what about walking and hiking groups or cycling maybe, photography, foodie groups, cultural groups, music... etc.

Any group that has some sort of social element to it too.

NO point if the group meets once a week and everyone just goes home, but I mean groups who go to the pub or for pizza afterwards or have bbqs and other events to go to.

The group doesn't need to contain single women, but as long as he keeps meeting people then they may know of sisters/cousins/mothers/friends/relatives who would love to meet a nice steady single guy.

 

Good suggestions. Meetup is a big market he has not tapped into fully yet, but tested the waters. It's another we'll see I guess.

 

You've focused on physical attraction (or lack thereof). How about personality, social skills, and demeanor? That could be the bigger - or real - issue.

 

But how tell what to improve?

 

Nobody says anything to him and people generally tell him he is a very friendly and likeable person.

[GemmaUK]

I would ask what thing is making him the unhappiest - so if that is no reply/rejection rate/lack of quality on OLD then drop the OLD.

 

 

I would suggest he works on his self confidence - I have been bowled over by men I didn't consider attractive to me initially who were just confident, not arrogant and were lovely to talk to. This reminds me that I haven't seen my crush around lately..he was totally not my 'type' physically - would I go on a date with him if he asked me - yes.

If a man thinks and then states he thinks he is lesser in some way it's a real turn off.

There's self depreciation which can be amusing but if it goes on and on it gets old quick.

 

 

Same as a couple of posters above suggested too - get a dog and actually attend meet ups or some group you're interested in..rather than going to the group because you want to meet women.

 

 

Take life focus off meeting someone and enjoy the life you have.

 

 

I mentioned in the other thread - the journal one that on occasion I'll get a guy who mails me and he looks to be someone I would date - then in his mail he has thrown me a pile of angst and insults - I'm lucky I guess finding out so soon that he is like that.

But I can't help think 'shame, you looked nice, wonder if you were just having a really bad night and that mail you sent is actually not you at all but just frustration'.

First impressions count though and I would be stupid to take it any further or try to reason with him.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Basically give up and try and enjoy life single.

 

That's really what he's been doing for the last 4 years.

 

And really, if you don't push it, it doesn't happen. It might not happen if you push it either, but if you don't it's quite unlikely at age 40+.

 

Oh well, I get the idea. There's really nothing you can do but try and enjoy your time on Earth.

[elaine567]

You've focused on physical attraction (or lack thereof). How about personality, social skills, and demeanor? That could be the bigger - or real - issue.

 

I think for OLD or bars then physical characteristics are always going to be to the fore.

In OLD it is all about choice, choice which is endless, and even if it unlikely to work, most ignore what they deem unattractive at the click of the mouse or a sweep of the phone.

In bars many would rather be seen chatting to the boring hunk or the brainless hottie rather that be seen to be chatting to the interesting fat girl or the intellectual short guy. It is just the way it is.

 

Friends, colleagues and acquaintances, see past the physical, they see the real person and that is where anyone who is not sizzling "hot", or who rarely gets past the first "attractiveness" filter, needs to look for like-minded people.

[central]

But how tell what to improve?

 

Nobody says anything to him and people generally tell him he is a very friendly and likeable person.

 

I think he has to ask people to be candid. Someone will be, even if most may not be. If you are his friend, evaluate what people find both good and bad/annoying, and tell him yourself. Or suggest he get counselling, and focus on relationship skills and interpreting interpersonal interactions. Maybe make recordings of his speech patterns and tones, and have him listen to see if there's something about tone, phrasing, emphasis, attitudes expressed, etc. that could be unpleasant.

[GemmaUK]

Good suggestions. Meetup is a big market he has not tapped into fully yet, but tested the waters. It's another we'll see I guess.

 

 

See - if he hasn't really tried it then he doesn't really know - he's gotta try it and stick with it.

 

 

But how tell what to improve?

 

Nobody says anything to him and people generally tell him he is a very friendly and likeable person.

 

 

Go one step further - try a presentation skills course.

My LT ex and I were on holiday one year and he admitted to me that he felt like he was letting the side down. His reason for this (which I hadn't even noticed to be honest) was that he felt I was putting all of the work into meeting new people and being sociable.

I was the one who would just say hello and so my and him would get into a group and socialise rather than sit just talking to each other.

 

 

He asked me how I did it. I just said I would find something complimentary or funny to say - or just say hello and smile.

The next night we were out he got talking to two girls, he was trying out what I had said. To be honest, these girls were a bit odd and he said that first, not me, I was OK with spending time with them. He wanted to get away - so we did.

 

 

We moved on elsewhere and he asked me to lead - we met a couple, they were lovely - we had a blast that night.

 

When we got back home he mentioned his angst again and we signed him up for a presentation skills/public speaking course.

He loved it! It gave him loads of confidence but also made him see that we all get nervous, we all have to read body language, we all have to take care of how we approach and what we say.

But..he also made a transformation. He found that he could speak and speak to most people.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I think for OLD or bars then physical characteristics are always going to be to the fore.

In OLD it is all about choice, choice which is endless, and even if it unlikely to work, most ignore what they deem unattractive at the click of the mouse or a sweep of the phone.

In bars many would rather be seen chatting to the boring hunk or the brainless hottie rather that be seen to be chatting to the interesting fat girl or the intellectual short guy. It is just the way it is.

 

Friends, colleagues and acquaintances, see past the physical, they see the real person and that is where anyone who is not sizzling "hot", or who rarely gets past the first "attractiveness" filter, needs to look for like-minded people.

 

Believe it or not, it takes a lot of gumption to admit that nobody can be purely physically attracted to you.

 

There's a lot of talk about lack of self confidence, but people fight it at every turn.

 

Hey, I went into OLD thinking a bunch of women would find me cute and be excited to go out on a date with me.

 

L-M-F-A-O!

[JuneJulySeptember]

I think he has to ask people to be candid. Someone will be, even if most may not be. If you are his friend, evaluate what people find both good and bad/annoying, and tell him yourself. Or suggest he get counselling, and focus on relationship skills and interpreting interpersonal interactions. Maybe make recordings of his speech patterns and tones, and have him listen to see if there's something about tone, phrasing, emphasis, attitudes expressed, etc. that could be unpleasant.

 

It's pretty obvious 'he' is 'me'.

 

Jesus, so much work just to get a person who might be cool to watch a ballgame with.

 

*takes deep breath*

 

Maybe I'll be up to it, maybe not. We'll see. Thanks for the advice all. The last month has been demoralizing.

[GemmaUK]

Basically give up and try and enjoy life single.

 

That's really what he's been doing for the last 4 years.

 

And really, if you don't push it, it doesn't happen. It might not happen if you push it either, but if you don't it's quite unlikely at age 40+.

 

Oh well, I get the idea. There's really nothing you can do but try and enjoy your time on Earth.

 

'Try and enjoy'

 

 

Why not just enjoy?

 

 

Gawd!

I am 45, slim, attractive (so I am told), I work hard, have a place of my own, pay all my bills, dress nicely, look after myself, am kind to others, don't expect a man to pay for everything (50/50) woman here.

 

 

I came off OLD because it was lame and I got fed up with it - fed up with abusive mails mostly from frustrated men - this was 6/7 months ago - I am 45, I don't want a guy who is retired. I have life in me!

My bod is OK, I'm UK size 8 and 5ft.

 

 

My last ex..so sweet and lovely in the beginning..turned into a jealous control freak. Emotionally abusive, so very controlling - some of it still renders me speechless when I think of it.

 

 

Not every man is like that.

I'll be back on OLD soon I expect.

 

 

I'll give it another whirl.

 

 

I haven't given up but a RS is not THE focus of my life.

Life is the focus of my life.

[GemmaUK]

It's pretty obvious 'he' is 'me'.

 

Jesus, so much work just to get a person who might be cool to watch a ballgame with.

 

*takes deep breath*

 

Maybe I'll be up to it, maybe not. We'll see. Thanks for the advice all. The last month has been demoralizing.

 

I'd go to a ball game with ya!

 

 

If I win the lottery..

 

 

I don't give a Scooby what you look like..I'll be there..if you drop the angst.

[JuneJulySeptember]

My best friend, who's been very successful in life, once opined that 'things get better once you've given up all hope'. At the time I took his words literally and argued one should never give up hope. The wisdom was in the spirit of the words, that being accepting what is and valuing and growing what one has, rather than pining away for what is out of one's control.

 

If your brother/friend is growing what he has, for himself, with the pursuits he's interested in, his focus is on his life, as compared to placing those pursuits at the altar of attracting a mate, something he has absolutely zero control over. Think about it. Until he lies on his deathbed, he'll never know for sure that the mate he thinks he's attracted will disappear at any time. It could be today, it could be tomorrow, it could be the day before he dies, it could be never. It's completely unknown. Why mold one's life to supplicate to the altar of the unknown?

 

If dating and mating happens along life's road, that's fine. If it doesn't, that's fine too. He can die an old man in his bed with a full life, his life, behind him. Where he's going, a woman can't follow anyway. He'll leave her behind. Part of life.

 

You know what, my man?

 

You struck a chord with me.

 

So much of what I have done in my life is to try and attract women, get married, 'maybe' have kids, and live the straight life. Why does that have to be the plan?

 

The job that I have (which doesn't even pay that much), going to the gym and even some of the activities that I do (hiking and such) I enjoy but are partially to meet women.

 

And it has gotten me nowhere.

 

What would it be like to move to Africa and just give it all up to help people, or become a person who contributes to those less fortunate living in poverty? I was watching a special on Netflix about a woman who did that.

 

I'll probably make $13/hour, but hey, I won't be worrying about women and I can die knowing I've done something with this life.

 

Just a wild, out there epiphany you just gave me.

Edited December 17, 2014 by JuneJulySeptember

[elaine567]

Believe it or not, it takes a lot of gumption to admit that nobody can be purely physically attracted to you.

 

There's a lot of talk about lack of self confidence, but people fight it at every turn.

 

Hey, I went into OLD thinking a bunch of women would find me cute and be excited to go out on a date with me.

 

L-M-F-A-O!

 

But OLD is artificial, it is easy to tick boxes and discount people who in real life you may be very attracted to.

It is easy to dismiss people, easy to see, I am sure unintended, red flags on a profile (better safe than sorry), easy to imagine they are horrible people in real life, easy to mistake what they say on a email or a text.

There is no responsibility taken either for that choice, no second chances. There is no "chemistry". Sometimes genuine attraction may take a while to develop and grow, with OLD it is all visual - bin and move on, in seconds.

[elaine567]

"LOVE" (Everything you have been told was a lie)

[GemmaUK]

You know what, my man?

 

You struck a chord with me.

 

So much of what I have done in my life is to try and attract women, get married, 'maybe' have kids, and live the straight life. Why does that have to be the plan?

 

The job that I have (which doesn't even pay that much), going to the gym and even some of the activities that I do (hiking and such) I enjoy but are partially to meet women.

 

And it has gotten me nowhere.

 

What would it be like to move to Africa and just give it all up to help people, or become a person who contributes to those less fortunate living in poverty? I was watching a special on Netflix about a woman who did that.

 

I'll probably make $13/hour, but hey, I won't be worrying about women and I can die knowing I've done something with this life.

 

Just a wild, out there epiphany you just gave me.

 

 

A man with a passion..this could be translated to so many different levels too...volunteering being one of them.

 

 

Life ain't over until it's over.

 

 

I've been looking today at volunteering and what I could do on Christmas day...there's nothing that I could get to. Nothing.

 

 

I have no parents (both long gone) and my only folks are the other side of the world. Singlies like me don't get invited for Christmas - which is quite funny as I am expected to be doing something wild and great fun!

 

 

I will likely be on here, cooking a dinner for myself and watching TV.

Hey ho! Ho Ho....

[clia]

This is actually a serious question. No back and forth b@tching. No gender warring.

 

Let's say you know a guy who is close to you. He is your brother (adopted perhaps ) or very close friend and he is just not traditionally attractive at ALL. Maybe lets say for arguments sake he even has a minor physical deformity. Maybe he's 5 feet tall. You get the point.

 

Well...all you've told us about are his looks. Does this guy have a decent personality, friends, a social life, hobbies, a decent job, a decent place to live, savings in the bank for retirement, a sense of humor, etc.? All of those things will contribute to his success at dating. A lot of those things can overcome a lack of physical attractiveness.

 

If he is not traditionally attractive and is having trouble dating, I would encourage him to seek out women in the same situation -- women who are not traditionally attractive who as a result are likely having trouble dating. If he has a minor physical deformity, he should seek out women with the same physical deformity who might also be having trouble dating due to the deformity. (There are probably support groups established.)

 

I would encourage him to try to meet women in person, where his personality can really shine. (Assuming he has a decent personality. If he doesn't, he needs to work on it by becoming more social, possibly joining Toastmasters or other groups like that.) Go to Meetups, volunteer, join common interest groups (like running groups, for example), etc. But I don't think he should necessarily give up on OLD either. On OLD he should be targeting the women I mentioned above. He should have multiple irons in the fire.

 

I would also encourage him to get a dating coach who he can meet in person (i.e., not an online coach) who can give him an objective perspective about how he comes across in person. Friends are often reluctant to tell the truth about flaws.

[GemmaUK]

These problems have rather simple solutions, but unfortunately, people don't usually like to bear the solutions. A short, unattractive man is going to have issues dating. Those things are out of your control. However, there are plenty of things that can be controlled. Everyone who has issues dating needs to hit the gym and work on their diet. That alone will be a big help. Maybe take up another interesting hobby to go along with your fitness regimen. Anything to make you more interesting. Assess your faults and work on them. Eliminate your weaknesses. I would suggest taking up martial arts in addition to the diet and weight training. The skills and confidence you gain from that will transfer to your sex life. While you work on yourself, forget women. Just throw yourself into your new life. Eventually, women will notice.

 

I could/would not date a gym geek.

 

 

I want a normal average man who has ups/downs and the usual to deal with in life.

 

 

I'm 45. I don't need nor want a six pack - they look wrinkly and weird on a mid forties guy anyway....