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Signals arent clear


sean_89

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Hi everyone, I know there are a lot of experienced people on here so thanks in advance for any/all of your replies.

 

I just started dating this girl recently off of the app Tinder, and I'm starting to like her. I had the app for a while but didn't take it overly seriously and actually didn't meet up with anybody on it up until this girl, despite having the opportunity to. She told me the same. She stood out (was my age, 24, just started a good career, common interests). So we went for a drink the first night just to meet and then we went on a two part date the other night.

 

Conversation doesn't stall, we spent probably 6-7 hours total over those two nights chatting, both times she tells me she had a great time, etc. I know she likes me on some level because we kept extending our second date and I extended an offer to go ice skating in a couple of days for a short third date and she took it without hesitation and also switched her schedules around to be able to do that with me.

 

But a couple of things have made me not so sure. For instance, on our walk (it was getting dark out but still early evening after we had supper) I planned on going along a downtown boardwalk which was well lit but there for some reason were not many people around, thus she wouldn't go that route and we went somewhere entirely different. I also offered to pick her up to take her to dinner but she refused that also beforehand.

 

Maybe this is more normal than I think - I haven't tried the online dating thing before, but I'm not accustomed to it because I'm warm and friendly and never had experiences like this before. Everything goes well but then these little things throw me off. We hug after every date but no kiss yet because she makes me feel like she has some kind of wall up. She's not very touchy or flirty. Additionally, from her instagram it looks like she is recently (~a month) out of a relationship that lasted a while. That last bit makes me question what exactly it is she's wanting.

 

Chances are the kiss won't come after skating either if she doesn't let me pick her up. Most people say by the third date if you haven't kissed then it's over and it's really starting to psych me out. I don't even know if I want to offer to pick her up after her refusing just a couple of days ago. I guess I'm worried about being cautious, maybe I'm overthinking, but I'm unsure of how to proceed.

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DivorcedDad123

Women have to be very careful dating. This is perfectly normal,since she doesn't really know you yet. It's normal for a concerned woman to want to meet in public rather than you picking them up at work or their home. Don't take it personally.

I wouldn't want anyone I wasn't sure of to know where I lived either. Too many weirdos,thieves,stalker types out there. And that's just the women!

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Oh yeah this is perfectly normal. Women have to be really cautious with who they meet online. I wouldn't let a guy pick me up until the 3rd date unless I was really super comfortable with him! I wouldn't let that get to you, as long as she is going out with you and agreeing to keep seeing you, I think you're in the clear!

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Thanks! I kind of figured this could be the case but wanted to make sure since I'm so new to this online dating thing. I'm also a small town guy in a larger city and it's been a little eye opening seeing the differences in dating that come with that.

 

So do you guys/girls suggest that since our third "date" (skating) is so close to the second date that I don't offer to pick her up again this time? What about the kiss? Should I be working more towards making her more comfortable with me, take it slow, enjoy her company, and hope that she's not losing interest? There hasn't been any touching at all besides the hugs at the end but I think skating might allow more of it to happen.

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what if the next guy she meets she does all the things she refused to do with you? and people here are saying its normal for her to be careful.

 

does that mean in retrospective hindsight that we are all wrong?

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what if the next guy she meets she does all the things she refused to do with you? and people here are saying its normal for her to be careful.

 

does that mean in retrospective hindsight that we are all wrong?

 

What if tomorrow she's in the news, and it turns out she's a serial killer?

 

Plot twists happen, for sure, but there are strong general trends to some things.

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how do we know that shes lewding him on and that hes wasting his time?

 

We don't know it as an absolute fact, but we can theorize the most likely possibilities and encourage people to take reasonable chances for potential great outcomes. Unless people ever become psychic, we won't have much in the way of guarantees, but we can use common trends and common sense to help improve our odds of enjoying good stuff and avoiding bad stuff.

 

If it turns out that the woman is bat**** crazy, that will be a surprise and it will suck. But it would still hold true that given the circumstances described, most women are interested but just cautious when they act in such ways.

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if we ask the girl we like about how they got with their ex boyfriend and how long it took and if they stayed up talking to them etc than we can get a good idea of whether she is as interested in us.

 

also questions like how long did it take till she kissed him or slept with him

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Thanks! I kind of figured this could be the case but wanted to make sure since I'm so new to this online dating thing. I'm also a small town guy in a larger city and it's been a little eye opening seeing the differences in dating that come with that.

 

So do you guys/girls suggest that since our third "date" (skating) is so close to the second date that I don't offer to pick her up again this time? What about the kiss? Should I be working more towards making her more comfortable with me, take it slow, enjoy her company, and hope that she's not losing interest? There hasn't been any touching at all besides the hugs at the end but I think skating might allow more of it to happen.

 

why not give her an option. "i can pick you up or we can meet there, whatever makes you most comfortable." it sounds like she's interested - switching her schedule was a big move, but just because she's not all over you doesn't mean she isn't interested. you met her through an app, how fast should she move? as a female you have to be cautious, especially with online apps and sites. she doesn't know you and her comfort level might not be there yet.

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Thanks again for the continued replies. The support and advice on this site is always really helpful.

 

She's actually invited me to her workplace a couple of times because we work in a similar field and she wants to show me her office, etc. She brought that up pretty early on actually. But I'm understanding now that she can still say that and still have a preference to drive herself, etc.

 

I actually gave her that option last time about the ride, I think I will again tomorrow. It just seems natural for me to offer a ride, especially since she would be on the way. If she declines again I'll not take it too personally and just continue to try to increase her comfort level.

 

I notice that no one has commented on the nonexistence of flirting/touchiness. I know that this is my responsibility to initiate, and I know it's hard to say because no one can truly understand the dynamic from me posting text on this website. I think I've avoided the kiss because of the fact that she seems to be guarded, but perhaps giving it could increase her comfort level? What do you think? Is the kiss by the third date rule a real rule? Or should I just stop thinking about that and take it slow and see if it feels right or not.

Edited by sean_89
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DivorcedDad123

Some women aren't touchy/flirty. That would be a no-go for me, but for other guys, they may not care.

It's up to you to intitiate holding her hand or a kiss. Just reach out and take her hand in yours. See how she reacts. If she removes your hand, you'll have your answer. If she keeps holding on, then you'll have a better answer.

My gf and I hold hands every chance we get. She'll place her head on my shoulder while we're sitting. I see these other couples,married or dating, and they're sitting next to each other like friends. Seems weird to me, but some dont like pda. They remind me of my marriage and how dull and lacking in intimacy that was. Don't miss that one bit!

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Looking at past relationships, some boyfriends I kissed on the first date (rare), others on the sixth or seventh date. Typically, it happened on the second or third date, but there are no hard and fast rules. It's about the dynamic between the two people involved. You're partially responsible for that dynamic. Many women don't initiate a kiss (even when they want one), so generally it won't be faster than your pace, but it can be slower based on her comfort level.

 

Touch her forearm lightly as you're chatting. Touch the small of her back when you're walking through a door together. Flirt. See how she responds to that physical contact. If it's positive, try holding her hand and see how that goes. You'll also be setting the mood for a kiss.

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Thanks to all of you helpful people!

 

We had to reschedule skating, something came up for her at the last minute, so I don't have any updates. I think I'm going to try to keep occupied and not overthink things - just let them play out.

 

I'm starting to like her but I think I need to make sure that I don't go overboard with this - I've had a few signs recently that she isn't over her ex (how can she be after only a month) and they are still in contact while he is overseas, and I think that even if she is a naturally guarded person she might be even more guarded as a result of that. Many assumptions I know, but I realize that I need to be a little cautious as I've gotten burned a lot in the past by this.

 

I'm not one to multi-date or string people along, I actually stopped using tinder because I was trying to focus on getting to know her and only her. I don't like how Tinder shows an activity level and don't want her getting the wrong idea by being active too much and/or "matching" her friends by accident. But should I also be keeping my options open here? I know it's still so early.

Edited by sean_89
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Further to this, is it a bad sign if I have surgery and she doesn't acknowledge it / ask me how it went etc.? I know we're not together but I keep thinking if the situation was reversed that these are things I would be doing. is this a sign of a lack of interest? is she interested in me... as a rebound? Maybe it's the post surgery drugs, maybe its the fact that I'm leaving for the holidays soon for a couple of weeks, but I seem to have this on my mind more than I'd like.

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When are you scheduled to go skating?

 

Don't worry too much about her (lack of) response to your surgery. Many people would comment, but some won't.

 

If you don't want to go on Tinder because she might think you're not interested (wise choice BTW), then approach women in real life. It's only been two dates. She may like you. She may not. It's hard to predict definitively where things will go this early on, especially since you met on Tinder. Most people on there are just looking for something casual.

 

Do you guys communicate between dates? That's how I really connected with guys I dated--texts and a nightly phone call. (My dates initiated communication.) Just an idea.

 

Anyway, best of luck. Let us know how things turn out.

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Thanks! I kind of figured this could be the case but wanted to make sure since I'm so new to this online dating thing. I'm also a small town guy in a larger city and it's been a little eye opening seeing the differences in dating that come with that.

 

So do you guys/girls suggest that since our third "date" (skating) is so close to the second date that I don't offer to pick her up again this time? What about the kiss? Should I be working more towards making her more comfortable with me, take it slow, enjoy her company, and hope that she's not losing interest? There hasn't been any touching at all besides the hugs at the end but I think skating might allow more of it to happen.

 

I come from a small village, worked in very rural areas so my lack of "stranger danger" is probably even worse than yours! I am the idiot that stops for others when they are broken down etc... Keys to the car are normally left in the ignition etc... Something that people from the cities would probably never do.

 

I have had my eyes opened in recent months though as to how dangerous some people can be and I know of one poor woman who had all of her valuables stolen by a con artist she met from On Line Dating...

 

Personally I think what you should do is ask if she would like you to pick her up or if she would like to meet you there. Give her the choice, let her get to know you better with no pressure and be relaxed about it. Keep offers casual and make no comment or reaction if she wants to be independent. Give her time to get to know you. After all you are still effectively a stranger to her.

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When are you scheduled to go skating?

 

Don't worry too much about her (lack of) response to your surgery. Many people would comment, but some won't.

 

If you don't want to go on Tinder because she might think you're not interested (wise choice BTW), then approach women in real life. It's only been two dates. She may like you. She may not. It's hard to predict definitively where things will go this early on, especially since you met on Tinder. Most people on there are just looking for something casual.

 

Do you guys communicate between dates? That's how I really connected with guys I dated--texts and a nightly phone call. (My dates initiated communication.) Just an idea.

 

Anyway, best of luck. Let us know how things turn out.

 

Hi Angel, thank you for chiming in again.

 

She knew that I was scheduled to have surgery this week so I tried to fit that skating date in before that (and told her this) but unfortunately that didn't work out. She apologized a lot and rescheduled for this weekend sometime. I'm working on getting better post-operation but I'm not sure if I'll be able to skate this weekend because of it, which has me a little bummed and possibly thinking a lot because I'm also due to go home for the holidays no later than a week from tomorrow.

 

I realize the troubles with finding somebody worthwhile on Tinder. She has a mature job and she's a little older than most on Tinder that I see but I have to realize that she's also just gotten out of a LTR and that Tinder can be considered to be a casual app. I'll try approaching women in person as well.

 

We communicate (but not much) between dates but probably every 2nd or 3rd day. She's not a great texter so I keep it short. I initiate all of the time, and am trying to strike a balance and feel her out as to how much she likes.

 

Thank you for the good luck

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I come from a small village, worked in very rural areas so my lack of "stranger danger" is probably even worse than yours! I am the idiot that stops for others when they are broken down etc... Keys to the car are normally left in the ignition etc... Something that people from the cities would probably never do.

 

I have had my eyes opened in recent months though as to how dangerous some people can be and I know of one poor woman who had all of her valuables stolen by a con artist she met from On Line Dating...

 

Personally I think what you should do is ask if she would like you to pick her up or if she would like to meet you there. Give her the choice, let her get to know you better with no pressure and be relaxed about it. Keep offers casual and make no comment or reaction if she wants to be independent. Give her time to get to know you. After all you are still effectively a stranger to her.

 

Hi toodaloo, thanks for sharing your story! It sounds like we have a similar upbringing. It's only in this past year that I've lived in a city and had to witness these different mindsets that I wasn't used to at all. I'm slowly learning, as I haven't dated a whole lot since I've came here either, just a few one date deals. I'm also very new to Tinder (only Online meeting app that I've tried). I'm realizing that although I have good intentions that not everybody would be certain of that right away, especially in a larger place.

 

I'll try to be better with the relaxed part, I'm a really relaxed guy by nature but sometimes the whole alpha "take charge" thing starts brewing in my head and I start thinking that I have to push a little.

 

I know she is probably quite independent from what I can see. Do you mean I should probably take a step back and be more nonchalant? For example I know she had a busy week and I'm curious about how it went but don't know if I should reach out since she doesn't seem to have the same views towards my happenings.

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I'm dating someone now that I'm really, really into. However, I wasn't in the beginning. I liked him, but it took time (maybe 5ish dates) for me to feel "butterflies", or whatever. Also, I was still getting over my ex at the beginning. Now we're two months in and I like him SO much, also I'm not thinking about that ex anymore.

 

So my point is, she sort of sounds like me. Likes you enough, but maybe not as much as you like her (which I think was also the situation for the person I'm dating in the beginning). This is really perfectly OK at this point. I can tell you what will help- be consistent about contact, but don't overwhelm her with it... you want her to be pleasant surprised when she hears from you, not expecting it. Let 2-3 days pass if it happens that way, that's OK. Play the whole thing cool, keep seeing her and hopefully you'll build more of a connection.

 

I will say that if she didn't like you she wouldn't be hanging out with you at all. I think she does, but that she needs more time with you to feel like she knows you better before she moves forward.

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Further to this, is it a bad sign if I have surgery and she doesn't acknowledge it / ask me how it went etc.? I know we're not together but I keep thinking if the situation was reversed that these are things I would be doing. is this a sign of a lack of interest? is she interested in me... as a rebound? Maybe it's the post surgery drugs, maybe its the fact that I'm leaving for the holidays soon for a couple of weeks, but I seem to have this on my mind more than I'd like.

 

She might be emotionally unavailable in general. She's not touchy-feely, you've got your reasons to wonder if she's really over her ex or not, she seems guarded in multiple ways, and she doesn't seem to give a **** about your surgery.

 

However this might boil down to her just trying to be smart and respectful about things. If she did recently get out of a LTR, then it's actually somewhat rare and commendable that she's not just emotionally rebounding hardcore with you or something. She might just understand straight up that she should go really slow with you to make sure she actually digs you and isn't just trying to stuff you into some void left by her ex.

 

So I see it as a likely good sign. The only downside is that you're probably going to have to invest a lot more time/effort than average before she reaches a verdict, so to speak, assuming that you don't lose interest yourself, first.

 

If you really like her so far and consider her worth the longer investment, then I think so far, so good, in how she seems to be handling it.

 

My only concern is the seeming lack of interest/empathy about your surgery, which makes me wonder just how emotionally unavailable she might be. Only solid red flag in the mix.

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Some people don't want to intrude on something so personal like surgery. You can tell her about it, especially if it impacts your skating. Come up with an alternative activity to skating since you don't want to injure yourself. Ask for any ideas she may have. Since you are going away for the holidays, you want to leave her with a very good impression of you. Are there any Christmas concerts or does she want to go caroling with a group? You can be more touchy feely, like holding her hand (with the excuse you feel a little weak in your recovery). When you part, hug her and slightly leg go but not totally, talking to her with your face close to hers. If she doesn't pull away, kiss her on both cheeks Continental style. If she doesn't pull away go in for a real kiss but no tongue.

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Come up with an alternative activity to skating and ask her if she's okay with a change in plans. I would not delay a second date until after you get back. You're losing momentum as it is. Try to get it back, and the best way to do that is to meet in person.

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Thank you all for the helpful replies, they were each very thoughtful and I took things away from all of you. The different perspectives are great. Sorry I can't reply to you all.

 

It seems generally that I am a little more worried than I should be at this point. But I'll expand a little - timing is an issue. I guess the last two posters highlight the fact that I'm losing momentum, which I think I also am, and has made these things more on my mind lately than I'd like it to be.

 

Just to clarify we have already had two dates, both of which lasted for a fair amount of time. I tried to meet with her to go skating a couple of days after the second date because I knew the surgery would make me lose momentum. Main issue is that I had oral surgery which is going to make it hard to leave a lasting impression with her before the holidays and also make it difficult to kiss/get too close to her/ even smile unless my healing goes well before I leave.

 

I'm really trying to recover as best as I can, and I've thought about delaying a day or two before I leave for the holidays - which may or may not make a difference - but at the end of the day momentum is going to be hard to get back and then I'm away for ~2ish weeks. I know it's not ideal at all, I guess all I can do is let it play out? She's asking me if I'll be recovering all weekend, etc. It's difficult to know whether I can make plans or if I'll look desperate trying to fit her in before I leave.

Edited by sean_89
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