I'll never meet a woman here, thinking of moving to Italy

[mr_dave]

This might sound rather drastic from the title.

 

I'm a 27 year old half Italian guy (I'm learning the language) living in a smallish town in Northern England, I hope in the following post not to cause any offence to female English users.

I'm painfully shy around women, having asked out only one girl in my entire life. When I saw her floating around my gym, she was so beautiful, natural and friendly looking that I just had to go over and speak to her, in spite of me being a complete nervous wreck - hands shaking, voice trembling.

We were together for three and a half years until she left me for another guy two years ago now.

 

That's the problem though - In my 15 years of being interested in women she is the only one I've ever come across in England who has made me bury my confidence issues and think to myself 'I just have to ask her out or I'll forever kick myself.'

Unfortunately I can't foresee being in that situation again.

There is a considerable brain drain from the area I live in, most educated young females leave for the South, leaving behind (no offence intended) a largely binge-drinking, overly-tattooed, promiscuous, poorly educated pool of women I wouldn't be attracted to.

However, checking up on the intelligent ladies who have vacated my home town for greener pastures down south.. well they all seem to have fairly glitzy lives with 1000+ facebook friends, and I think to myself what would they see in the likes of me, with my modest occupation and social inactivity?

There seems to be a shortage of available women in the middle of these two extremes here.

I'm not elitist or a snob, I would love to date a lovely but poor woman who worked in a cake shop, supermarket or a nursery for example, but here that sort of profession is the domain of the aforementioned ladettes I have described earlier.

 

I have only recently returned from a long holiday in Tuscany, and pretty much every female, regardless of their status, wealth or education, seems to take care of themselves, looking natural, feminine and dressing attractively without seemingly trying too hard. Here not trying means hair scraped back and wearing pyjamas. Trying at all means being caked in make up as well as plucking your eyebrows off and drawing them back on again. That I do not get.

 

Whilst I was in Tuscany I pretty much got neck ache admiring the ladies, drifting around with their long dark hair, looking effortlessly feminine and attractive. And I encountered two women whom I had that same feeling towards that I had before, seeing a woman who looked so beautiful to me, yet so accessible and friendly looking, repeatedly smiling at me. I prepared myself to approach them in passable Italian, s****ing my pants but ready to go through with it. Although the opportunities didn't present themselves to approach, I know that if I were back there for a prolonged period, the waters are so well stocked that it would happen, eventually.

 

I just feel I would fit in better there, Living with my parents here and saving up makes me a boring loser, there it's normal. Work there isn't plentiful so I don't think I would be as harshly judged for not having a glitzy career. A weekend night out there is spent having gelato in the piazza, sipping wine in an enoteca, or just strolling around hand in hand with your partner. Here it's about getting wasted. I seldom drink.

 

Thoughts anyone?

Edited October 12, 2014 by mr_dave

[lyndaaxo]

If you genuinely want to move, do it for yourself, not to meet women. Its a big step and there are lots of things to consider, so to me something like that can't be decided on the basis of there being no decent girls where you are.

 

Oh and btw, us northern women aren't all the same! Good job I'm not easily offended

[Dork Vader]

Perhaps you need to work on yourself confidence, self esteem and self worth.

 

You really need to think about what is going to happen when you make such a big move. You'll be far away from anyone you know. You'll be starting from scratch in every sense of life.

 

Why not ask yourself what changes you can make now.

[Candy_Pants]

I lived in Italy for two years, and maybe the northern women are a bit more "friendly" in regards to foreign men (I found the opposite to be true as a woman). If anything I say go for it not because of the potential for love, but for the potential for learning and growing. It was the most incredible experience of my life (besides motherhood) and I'd do it a million times over again.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Living abroad can be an enriching experience but also often overly romanticized, you need to have healthy expectations.

 

Unless you're going in as a student which will give you a social group and some similar people in the same boat or through some employment contract/work-volunteer program where at least you'll have the job covered and they may assist you in some of the basics, you're going to have to learn all of the basics of just daily life (banking, medical, shopping, post office, paperwork processes) on your own. And that means those little mundane tasks you take for granted at home, will require a complete relearning experience.

 

Then it comes to dating and living, well you're going to have to relearn the cultural and societal norms within that community, it might be different from town to town, regions or cities. Living in one city might be different than living in another as far as dialect/local slang, and then you'll have to do networking and meet people on your own, like friends and such.

 

Learning the language on paper can be one thing, learning how to speak it can be a whole other thing, if anything watch tv shows and listen to the language, you've got to adjust your ear to it.

 

So at the end of that comes dating, that's when understanding the cultural norms a bit can give you an idea of what to expect. How are you going to talk to women? How are you going to approach them? What are the general expectations within the culture when it comes to dating? It's one thing to date someone from another culture within your own, but being in another country is different.

 

You'll be forgiven for quite a bit being a foreigner, but your flavor may be an acquired taste for some...not all may be so receptive or inviting in terms of dating.

 

Traveling is probably something everyone should do, unfortunately visiting doesn't quite give you the head slamming experience as living there, that's the real challenge and experience. But it will have it's highs and lows, it's not just all sunshine and rainbows or the hidden answer your life has always been waiting for if that's what you think, because this culture feels like it's more for you.

 

The good thing is, at least your Italian and not completely disconnected...but it's debatable how much that will help you, again living there, is a whole other thing than what you have thought you knew or experienced by just visiting.

[martaldn]

Italy is a beautiful place for holiday but far away to be as good to live in.

We have crazy drivers women are hysteric there is not job! Unless u have some good connection there I wouldn't recommend u to move there!

I'm an Italian moved to the uk 7 years ago and I wouldn't go back!

[mr_dave]

Thanks for your replies, I really appreciate them!

 

If you genuinely want to move, do it for yourself, not to meet women. Its a big step and there are lots of things to consider, so to me something like that can't be decided on the basis of there being no decent girls where you are.

 

Oh and btw, us northern women aren't all the same! Good job I'm not easily offended

 

I am from Yorkshire too!

I know there are nice ladies round where I am, but around my age they are pretty much all off the market. I would say I have two friends here, and both are married to really nice girls who they met in their late teens.

 

 

Perhaps you need to work on yourself confidence, self esteem and self worth.

 

You really need to think about what is going to happen when you make such a big move. You'll be far away from anyone you know. You'll be starting from scratch in every sense of life.

 

Why not ask yourself what changes you can make now.

 

I know that I am lacking in those departments. If I appraise my qualities, I know that I am fairly intelligent, kind (maybe too kind), caring, not that bad looking and have a very good physique. However, none of that translates because I treated my last (and only) girlfriend impeccably, but I wasn't enough. I felt (and still do) emasculated by her cheating.

I guess that is why I would like to meet a more feminine, caring, family-orientated woman who would appreciate and value my qualities, as opposed to the ladettes where I am who abide by the YOLO maxim.

My ex-girlfriend fell into this scene where she was actively encouraged by this kind of woman to cheat on me, telling her she was too young to settle down and when she eventually did, they all covered for her.

 

What kind of changes were you alluding to? I pursue my interests and try to improve myself, going to the gym, playing football, going on holiday alone, racing karts, learning Italian, but I just don't feel as though I fit in here. I have two friends I meet every fortnight or so to watch a game or play pool, that is the extent of my social life. Any football team/gym socialising is just about getting inebriated in the most boorish way possible.

 

I suppose I feel like an outcast here, and can't see any way in which my situation will improve by staying where I am, except for building my bank balance. If I were to stay at home and continue to save for a year then I'll have enough to live abroad for at least two years with no income.

 

 

 

I lived in Italy for two years, and maybe the northern women are a bit more "friendly" in regards to foreign men (I found the opposite to be true as a woman). If anything I say go for it not because of the potential for love, but for the potential for learning and growing. It was the most incredible experience of my life (besides motherhood) and I'd do it a million times over again.

 

Thanks for your input Candy_Pants. It's nice to hear from someone who has been there and done it. I'm at an age where I've no responsibilities and in a good financial position, so I suppose if I were ever to live abroad, now(ish) would be the time. I feel like it would allow me to grow, and strongly suspect I would enjoy life a bit more out there.

What made you leave?

[mr_dave]

Living abroad can be an enriching experience but also often overly romanticized, you need to have healthy expectations.

 

Unless you're going in as a student which will give you a social group and some similar people in the same boat or through some employment contract/work-volunteer program where at least you'll have the job covered and they may assist you in some of the basics, you're going to have to learn all of the basics of just daily life (banking, medical, shopping, post office, paperwork processes) on your own. And that means those little mundane tasks you take for granted at home, will require a complete relearning experience.

 

Then it comes to dating and living, well you're going to have to relearn the cultural and societal norms within that community, it might be different from town to town, regions or cities. Living in one city might be different than living in another as far as dialect/local slang, and then you'll have to do networking and meet people on your own, like friends and such.

 

Learning the language on paper can be one thing, learning how to speak it can be a whole other thing, if anything watch tv shows and listen to the language, you've got to adjust your ear to it.

 

So at the end of that comes dating, that's when understanding the cultural norms a bit can give you an idea of what to expect. How are you going to talk to women? How are you going to approach them? What are the general expectations within the culture when it comes to dating? It's one thing to date someone from another culture within your own, but being in another country is different.

 

You'll be forgiven for quite a bit being a foreigner, but your flavor may be an acquired taste for some...not all may be so receptive or inviting in terms of dating.

 

Traveling is probably something everyone should do, unfortunately visiting doesn't quite give you the head slamming experience as living there, that's the real challenge and experience. But it will have it's highs and lows, it's not just all sunshine and rainbows or the hidden answer your life has always been waiting for if that's what you think, because this culture feels like it's more for you.

 

The good thing is, at least your Italian and not completely disconnected...but it's debatable how much that will help you, again living there, is a whole other thing than what you have thought you knew or experienced by just visiting.

 

Thanks for that great post, I didn't disagree with any of it. Moving away is something to be considered very carefully.

 

Italy is a beautiful place for holiday but far away to be as good to live in.

We have crazy drivers women are hysteric there is not job! Unless u have some good connection there I wouldn't recommend u to move there!

I'm an Italian moved to the uk 7 years ago and I wouldn't go back!

 

Whereabouts in Italy are you from? I'm very aware that the job situation is terrible, I spoke to quite a few of the locals who lamented that the economy there is in the toilet. I was thinking of teaching English as a source of income if I were to move. (as well as French and Spanish.)

Was it lack of work that brought you to England?

[FitChick]

Mr Dave, whereabouts in Yorkshire are you? If there are only slags left maybe I should consider looking for a man there. No competition! Or have all the good men moved down south as well?

[writergal]

Mr Dave, I was around your age when I lived in China (I got a gig teaching at a university there). It was a year of great adventure and personal growth that I will never regret as long as I live.

 

If you want to move to Italy and teach English, French and Spanish then by god do it. Now is the time. You have nothing to lose, but time and maybe a little bit of money. Heh heh. You're young, unattached. Start researching English language schools in Tuscany or wherever you want to move to, and then contact the schools with your CV, transcript and a cover letter stating why you want to teach there.

 

Teaching English in a foreign country is a fantastic way to learn about another culture. I highly recommend it.

[carhill]

Thoughts anyone?

 

Italian women can be brutal. Love the old buildings though.

[Candy_Pants]

Thanks for your input Candy_Pants. It's nice to hear from someone who has been there and done it. I'm at an age where I've no responsibilities and in a good financial position, so I suppose if I were ever to live abroad, now(ish) would be the time. I feel like it would allow me to grow, and strongly suspect I would enjoy life a bit more out there.

What made you leave?

I was able to stay so long because I have/had family there, and I nearly had a Permesso di Soggiorno (Permission To Stay) but my mother was leaving and the Permesso di Soggiorno was only valid if she stayed.

 

It is possible to be there illegally, but I certainly don't recommend it.

[mr_dave]

Mr Dave, whereabouts in Yorkshire are you? If there are only slags left maybe I should consider looking for a man there. No competition! Or have all the good men moved down south as well?

 

Haha, I can't provide more precise details of my whereabouts or that may compromise my anonymity! Come to think of it though, of all the people I was in the top sets with at school, I can't think of any guys who are still living round here. That's why I have so few friends!

 

Italian women can be brutal. Love the old buildings though.

 

Could you please elaborate carhill? Without trying to generalise too much, I've heard that Italian women tend to value family a little more, and that the whole drinking/ casual sex scene isn't so prevalent there.

Brutal in terms of....?

[Emilia]

If you can't pull in England, I think you will struggle in Italy considering how much more easy going English women are. Italian girls have a conservative reputation, they like men who can afford to finance their lifestyle and apparently they don't put out much. I don't know how many Italians are still religious but the Catholic streak runs through the culture. Not sure why that's easier than getting an English girlfriend (I'm not British, by the way so no odds to me).

 

Unless you are financially pretty secure (which isn't an easy thing to set up in Italy), it won't be easy. I always thought it would be easier with people from your own cultural background that you can relate to than those whose view point you probably can't comprehend?

[carhill]

Generally, they're not shy and retiring, rather fiery and opinionated. Faith still runs strong and it's generally Catholic, with the attendant family dynamics and participation of parents and extended family. They've been dealing with the vagaries and penchants of Italian men for generations, which often run to the 'randy'.

 

If you're planning to go there to work and live, IMO that could be a beneficial choice, and you'd come to know the Italian ladies naturally and could form your own opinion. As I found out with FSU/CIS women, there are stereotypes and generalities and then there are the real ladies. Italian women are the same. My impressions were based upon my interactions during my trips to that part of the world, which is far different from living there.

[mr_dave]

If you can't pull in England, I think you will struggle in Italy considering how much more easy going English women are. Italian girls have a conservative reputation, they like men who can afford to finance their lifestyle and apparently they don't put out much. I don't know how many Italians are still religious but the Catholic streak runs through the culture. Not sure why that's easier than getting an English girlfriend (I'm not British, by the way so no odds to me).

 

Unless you are financially pretty secure (which isn't an easy thing to set up in Italy), it won't be easy. I always thought it would be easier with people from your own cultural background that you can relate to than those whose view point you probably can't comprehend?

 

Thanks for your post. Well the thing is I don't really try to pull here, because I don't really fancy anyone, as I mentioned in my first post. I am myself conservative in terms of sex, and if I meet a girl and pluck up the courage to talk to her it wouldn't be solely to get into her pants.

I would like my future girlfriend(s) to be wife material, not just one of many.

 

In terms of finances, well I estimate by this time next year I'll have 40000 Euros in savings which would be a good amount to live on for a couple of years with no immediate pressure to find work there.

Regarding your last sentence, I don't really feel I relate to the 'culture' here in the slightest.

 

 

Generally, they're not shy and retiring, rather fiery and opinionated. Faith still runs strong and it's generally Catholic, with the attendant family dynamics and participation of parents and extended family. They've been dealing with the vagaries and penchants of Italian men for generations, which often run to the 'randy'.

 

If you're planning to go there to work and live, IMO that could be a beneficial choice, and you'd come to know the Italian ladies naturally and could form your own opinion. As I found out with FSU/CIS women, there are stereotypes and generalities and then there are the real ladies. Italian women are the same. My impressions were based upon my interactions during my trips to that part of the world, which is far different from living there.

 

Thanks for that carhill! Yes the stereotype is of rather fiery opinionated ladies. I would hope there would be a few shy ones somewhere though!

The randy penchants of those men could actually be something that would work in my favour.

[adam_vt]

Stop wasting your time. Women are not worth that much effort. They will ruin your life if you bend yourself around that much for them.

 

 

It is not your self esteem as one poster mistakenly commented on. It's because you have too much respect for women. Again, they are not worth it. only in fairy tales.

[Dusk1983]

I'm English and I've been with an Italian woman for 3.5 years here on the UK, with whom I frequently return there with. I also learnt the language.

 

You can't generalise about "Italian women", that makes as much sense as "American women". Plenty of our female friends back in Italy date a lot and some I'd say are on the promiscuous side. Less, from those we know, I would describe as especially "traditional". The pressure to be traditional is societal and familial. In general though the young women are just like anywhere else - fun loving and frequently clashing against the rigidity of their elders.

 

Perhaps we could say that once "settled down" or committed, Italian women may be more loyal. I've no stats on this, it's just my gut feeling. Again perhaps the reasons may be societal and familial.

 

In terms of living there, you can't even begin to consider it until your language is fluent. And that means fluent in the region you'd live - people will speak different dialects in almost every town or city, and to the learner these are full blown different languages. Even after 3 years I start from scratch in every new region. And work will be limited to teaching English unless you're very well qualified, fluent in Italian and/or have prior business connections.

 

Anyway, if you're half Italian surely you still have some family connections in Italy?

[writergal]

You know, when I went to China to teach writing and conversation at a university I didn't know any Chinese. What I found was, being immersed in the culture (and with the help of some pin ying cassette tapes, and my own Chinese tutor), I was able to learn and speak the city's local dialect and basic survival Mandarin. It didn't hinder me from dating either, as I dated a Chinese high school teacher (who happened to speak fluent English too).

 

I guess what I'm saying is that while there is the language barrier, that doesn't prohibit the OP from learning Italian while he lives there, or from dating an Italian woman especially if she also speaks English, which mean of the Italians who live there do. Obviously, he should move to Italy to do more than date Italian woman. Sometimes a year abroad does the mind and body good.

[SawtoothMars]

There is a considerable brain drain from the area I live in, most educated young females leave for the South, leaving behind (no offence intended) a largely binge-drinking, overly-tattooed, promiscuous, poorly educated pool of women I wouldn't be attracted to.

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

Are these the same girls that the English let Pakistani guys gangrape for fun?

[me85]

I loved reading this. Ever consider writing for a living? It may suit you very well. And that would be the perfect profession in a place such as Italy.

 

I say GO FOR IT! Why on Earth not??? Life's too short to stand in one place forever.

 

If I had the opportunity to up and move (if finances weren't an issue) then you better believe I'd be gone in a flash.

[mr_dave]

I'm English and I've been with an Italian woman for 3.5 years here on the UK, with whom I frequently return there with. I also learnt the language.

 

You can't generalise about "Italian women", that makes as much sense as "American women". Plenty of our female friends back in Italy date a lot and some I'd say are on the promiscuous side. Less, from those we know, I would describe as especially "traditional". The pressure to be traditional is societal and familial. In general though the young women are just like anywhere else - fun loving and frequently clashing against the rigidity of their elders.

 

Perhaps we could say that once "settled down" or committed, Italian women may be more loyal. I've no stats on this, it's just my gut feeling. Again perhaps the reasons may be societal and familial.

 

In terms of living there, you can't even begin to consider it until your language is fluent. And that means fluent in the region you'd live - people will speak different dialects in almost every town or city, and to the learner these are full blown different languages. Even after 3 years I start from scratch in every new region. And work will be limited to teaching English unless you're very well qualified, fluent in Italian and/or have prior business connections.

 

Anyway, if you're half Italian surely you still have some family connections in Italy?

 

Tuscan Italian is as far as I'm aware pretty much the standard, Queen's Italian, if you will. Whilst I was there I could understand a large proportion of what was said to me, and have pretty lengthy conversations, although making mistakes along the way. This winter my goal is to really hone it.

 

I do have some distant relatives there, but in Campania, which has it's beautiful parts, but isn't somewhere I would want to live.

 

Are these the same girls that the English let Pakistani guys gangrape for fun?

 

Wow. What can I say to that?

[SawtoothMars]

 

Wow. What can I say to that?

 

Nothing really. I can't imagine Italians allowing gangs of muslim men to run around raping a couple thousand 13 year old girls and just look the other way.

 

I'm not sure I would want to marry into a culture like that. I would jet for Italy if I were you!

[mr_dave]

Nothing really. I can't imagine Italians allowing gangs of muslim men to run around raping a couple thousand 13 year old girls and just look the other way.

 

I'm not sure I would want to marry into a culture like that. I would jet for Italy if I were you!

 

I can't say I disagree with you. It's stomach churning to know that the police and social services knowingly allowed it to happen in the name of political correctness.

[SawtoothMars]

I can't say I disagree with you. It's stomach churning to know that the police and social services knowingly allowed it to happen in the name of political correctness.

 

It's just how English people think. They care more about appearing socially conscientious than actually doing the right thing. My cousin is dating one of these girls now and she actually tried to stop me from preventing a sexual assault outside a bar because it would have been politically incorrect!

 

I can say a lot of different things about Italian women both good and bad, but being Pro-Rapist is generally not one of them.