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An interesting email I got this afternoon ;)


ThaWholigan

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I subsribe to a lot of newsletters that takes a while for me to read and get through sometimes, but I got a particularly interesting one today from a relationship/dating coach that was an interesting read for me:

 

WHY ANY MAN CAN GET BEAUTIFUL WOMEN

 

 

Not too long ago we were hanging out at one of our favorite places

for Sunday night karaoke, an upscale Irish pub near where we live.

 

During a trip to the bar for a pint of Guinness, as any self-

respecting man would partake of at such a fine establishment, I

couldn't help but notice a woman who's own self-respect seemed

decidedly in doubt.

 

She was probably no more than 23. A petite brunette with a bright

smile and the personality to match. And for the record, she had a

body that would make most men take notice.

 

Here's the crazy part.

 

With her were two guys. One of them was probably about 40, the

other at least fifty. Both were tremendously overweight AND

undertall.

 

One was bald, the other probably hadn't taken a shower in several

days.

 

Both were wearing t-shirts and jeans. Neither appeared to be

particularly wealthy.

 

In fact, throw any classification of "limiting belief" you can

think of at these guys and one, the other or maybe even both

probably fit the description to textbook specification.

 

But the hottie wasn't only WITH these two guys, she was ALL OVER

THEM.

 

At one point she was shamelessly grinding her tail into one guy

while LICKING the other guy...all the while giggling and flirting

back and forth.

 

The guys, for their part, took turns staring wide-eyed in shock at

one another and laughing their heads off in joyful disbelief.

 

So to top it all off, they were less than suave and debonair about

the whole thing.

 

Here it is, gang. By NOBODY'S STANDARDS did these guys have ANY

GAME whatsoever.

 

Now I know what you're expecting me to say. You're expecting me to

tell you to get over whatever "limiting belief" you have and go out

there and talk to some sexy women.

 

Well, yeah. But that's obvious.

 

If you've been reading this newsletter for long you know by now I'm

not about re-packaging what you've already heard before.

 

What I want to do here is take things to another level for you by

pointing out HOW and WHY this stuff is the way it is.

 

When I pointed out the above scenario to Emily, she offered an

immediate explanation without having to think twice.

 

A woman with particularly low-self esteem will sometimes actually

PUNISH HERSELF by flirting with the grossest guys she can find and

letting them get all over her.

 

Crazy, isn't it?

 

So yeah, if you are a pretty gross dude, take heart. There are

hotties out there literally seeking you out.

 

And were we all that shallow around here, then that would be your

"lesson of the day". Then I'd probably go and write some book on

how to pick up strippers or something.

 

But I have MUCH higher regard for you than that.

 

And as such I'd rather frame things in a different perspective.

 

This means that ANY man who is about deserving what he wants--and

who wants only the women who bring the "whole package" to the

table--can feel free to expect MUCH, MUCH more than just a woman who

looks good.

 

"Hot" truly isn't "enough" for a great man.

 

To illustrate all of this as vividly as I know how, let's get under

the hood and find out how self-esteem is affected differently in

men than in women.

 

If you were a man who suddenly woke up and had every woman in the

world crazy about you, you'd probably get a significant ego boost

from that.

 

And seriously, I can't really say I've seen too many GQ-looking

dudes grinding up against a cackling throng of physically

unattractive women in order to "punish themselves". (Then again,

I've never been to a "Chippendales" show either, thankfully.)

 

Sexual desirability is NOT a source of self-esteem for women as it

is men. In fact it can be the EXACT opposite.

 

When a woman learns at a very young age that she is sexually

desirable to men, there are inherent social dangers involved.

 

Quite possibly, she is continuously met with advances from guys who

only "want something" from her.

 

If she doesn't perceive there to be much depth to anyone's interest

in her beyond something purely sexual, she may begin to believe in

her own mind that her worth is limited to sexual desirability.

 

So then, since she is so used to the flattery and perceives purely

sexual intentions behind it, there's no help to her self-esteem

there.

 

Worse, with the stigma placed on female sexuality in this society,

if she feels that all people perceive her to be good for is a

sexual thrill, then she can quickly start believing very negative

things about herself.

 

So what does this mean to you, as a guy?

 

If you read most men's dating and seduction advice, it teaches us

as guys to value "getting the lay" as the main goal.

 

And yeah, I think most of us can agree that sex is a good thing.

 

But if you are purely sex-focused, what you MUST realize is that

you are FEEDING THE MACHINE of female low-self-esteem.

 

And remember, for every woman who hates herself for being

considered purely a "sex object", there's one of US out there who

is ashamed of his own male sexuality--having been brainwashed into

believing that WE AS MEN are the cause of women's problems with

self-esteem and the like.

 

After all, there are PLENTY of women out there with low self-esteem

ready to pile on.

 

It all starts following logically and making sense, doesn't it?

 

This really can all become a vicious cycle.

 

Yes, there are some women out there with such issues that they'll

let any guy have his way with them, as we've seen above.

 

BUT...there are other women--in far greater numbers--who simply find it

EASY TO REJECT men who appear to want them only for sex. To those

women, YOU are part of the PROBLEM, not the SOLUTION.

 

So guys who are sex-focused do not see that women who reject them

often do have low self esteem.

 

Either that, or...um...they have HIGH self-esteem. Enough to know that

they aren't going to settle for a guy who only wants sex.

 

Either way, YOU LOSE.

 

Unless of course, you like the thought of being the guy women

"punish themselves with" whenever you believe yourself to be

"getting lucky".

 

Now let's be fair.

 

Sometimes women with low self-esteem will even refuse interested

men who have a solid, respectful, holistic approach to identifying

and associating themselves with great women.

 

It's not unheard of for such women to DRIVE SUCH GUYS AWAY because

they may not feel good enough for them.

 

This is NOT to be confused with rejection. This should be

considered part of the natural "weeding out" process that you as a

man of high standards expects.

 

After the dust clears, which women are left?

 

Value women on a deeper level than purely as sexual conquests, and

gain the advantage of more quickly identifying the most fantastic,

beautiful women out there who also happen to have tremendous

emotional health and stability.

 

And as a nice surprise, gain the advantage of having the highest

echelon of women on Earth WANT to be close to you BY CHOICE.

 

Either that or go find a woman who's willing to "punish herself" by

being with you. Your choice.

 

So what's it going to be?

 

Deserve what you want, guys. It's the only way to fly.

 

 

Be Good,

 

Scot McKay

What are your opinions on this particular piece of literature I received in my inbox??

 

 

P.S. The first part kinda resonated with me, as the girl I lost my virginity to actually asked me recently if I looked down on her. I thought it was poignant and rather sad that she asked me at the time and told her that I didn't (I actually don't look down on her).

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Those guys were in a relationship and she was a fag hag

 

I've seen something similar once, the pretty girl was blind drunk, the big overweight guy couldn't believe his luck. It was obvious she wasn't with it 100% (not obvious because he was not attractive, just that she was barely conscious). Not great to watch

Edited by Emilia
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That article coincides pretty accurately with my experiences.

 

Insecure women tend to act out sexual (while insecure men seem to retreat sexually) as a way to feed their need for external validation. They struggle with any kind of relationship, but particularly with men who are secure and confident because they can't figure out why that kind of guy would like them. They seem to do better with men who are also screwed up.

 

The most common "successful" pair you see is an insecure woman with a narcissistic man.

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I often listen carefully to learn about a woman's father and if she is the apple of his eye. It is that first man who in fact teaches her about men.

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Ahhh yes, Deserve What You Want. What a concept, except wasn't LeisureGuy slammed by a lot of people for posting about that concept? I think it would have been better if people thought about what "value" is and what Deserving What You Want really means.

 

Anyway, very insightful newsletter. Thanks for posting!

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Ahhh yes, Deserve What You Want. What a concept, except wasn't LeisureGuy slammed by a lot of people for posting about that concept? I think it would have been better if people thought about what "value" is and what Deserving What You Want really means.

 

Anyway, very insightful newsletter. Thanks for posting!

He had a point regarding market and value, but it was his overly antagonistic nature that caused people to slam him in that particular subject. Too invested in the idea that women are illogical and only respond to jerks.

 

I also don't think that people take that kindly to something as subjective and emotional as their dating lives whittled down to value and a market. But then, the cerebral person that I am, it doesn't bother me.

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He had a point regarding market and value, but it was his overly antagonistic nature that caused people to slam him in that particular subject. Too invested in the idea that women are illogical and only respond to jerks.

 

I also don't think that people take that kindly to something as subjective and emotional as their dating lives whittled down to value and a market. But then, the cerebral person that I am, it doesn't bother me.

 

I'm not sure I agree with your first paragraph. I do agree with your second paragraph though. For one thing, women in particular like to think in terms of Stories, Connection, and Meant To Be. For another, no one falls in love by adding up their partner's "value" in different areas and checking to see how high the score is. It really is more about how the other person makes us feel. For many women in particular, it really is more about how you "click" and as long as there is at least only a basic level of the "value" LG discusses, then you're good to go.

 

LG was slammed pretty harshly himself though, even though he has a point, which several people didn't even attempt to see. Some of the posts against his point were ridiculous. The evidence supporting is point is in plain sight. Why is it that there are guys who seem to get with the woman they really want to be with? What do these guys have? Is it because they Deserve What They Want? Could be somewhat related to the "value" concept LG was talking about.

 

I'm not sure where LG said in his thread that women are attracted to jerks by the way.

Edited by Imajerk17
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I'm not sure I agree with your first paragraph. I do agree with your second paragraph though. For one thing, women in particular like to think in terms of Stories, Connection, and Meant To Be. For another, no one falls in love by adding up their partner's "value" in different areas and checking to see how high the score is. It really is more about how the other person makes us feel. For many women in particular, it really is more about how you "click" and as long as there is at least only a basic level of the "value" LG discusses, then you're good to go.

 

Precisely. I think it's beneficial for guys to have an understanding of it, but I don't think that women think of it the same way and it can put a woman off if a man thinks of dating in such a way, even though it may benefit him to have that kind of understanding of it.

 

LG was slammed pretty harshly himself though, even though he has a point. The evidence supporting is point is in plain sight. Why is it that there are guys who seem to get with the woman they really want to be with? What do these guys have? Is it because they Deserve What They Want? Could be somewhat related to the "value" concept LG was talking about.

 

I'm not sure where LG said in his thread that women are attracted to jerks by the way.

LG was slammed harshly because he is deliberately antagonistic, and often. He does make good points and I try not to go with the herd, as do a couple of other posters I tend to have an understanding with - it is the constant antagonism that makes them a target. In that thread, I felt it was overly harsh, but likely it was a backlash to some of his other threads.

 

His "women attracted to jerks" was in another thread by Necromancer, in which he was slammed equally harshly, including by myself admittedly.

 

Regarding his point about value, I think his point was pretty much spot on which is why I didn't bite in that thread, I think everyone should really think about their value, how to increase it, and how to find their niche and their market.

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People exude "energy" - her energy on that night screamed "desperate" - the vultures respond to desperate... Hence the men circling their prey.

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Great article, Wholi. Thanks for posting.

 

I think it addresses lots of issues that have come up recently on here, in one coherent place. I'd suggest linking back to it as you post in other threads, or even sticking it in your sig (if you can bear to give up your Best F*ck tagline so early! :p) I might do it myself, if I can figure out how to post links properly. :o

 

The stuff that's really getting my interest at the moment is writing that can interpret women's knowledge into 'menspeak', and vice versa. This does an excellent job of it. Women will read this and go 'du-uhhhh!' in their heads. We spend hours trying to point this stuff out on here, but are often unsuccessful. We need male ghost writers to translate for us!

 

You're turning me into a fan of some of this PUA stuff! Never thought I'd see the day. :)

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Great article, Wholi. Thanks for posting.

 

I think it addresses lots of issues that have come up recently on here, in one coherent place. I'd suggest linking back to it as you post in other threads, or even sticking it in your sig (if you can bear to give up your Best F*ck tagline so early! :p) I might do it myself, if I can figure out how to post links properly. :o

 

The stuff that's really getting my interest at the moment is writing that can interpret women's knowledge into 'menspeak', and vice versa. This does an excellent job of it. Women will read this and go 'du-uhhhh!' in their heads. We spend hours trying to point this stuff out on here, but are often unsuccessful. We need male ghost writers to translate for us!

 

You're turning me into a fan of some of this PUA stuff! Never thought I'd see the day. :)

Thank you :). Yes I'd like to keep my title for a while, but I may still get the link in at some point ;)

 

Regarding Scot McKay, as far as I know he isn't a PUA, but he is associated with some of the more known in the scene. He is more focused on the relationship aspect though, and talks about having high value and not just "getting laid". Which is why I do like reading his newsletters, and I would like to invest in some of his products.

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Thank you :). Yes I'd like to keep my title for a while, but I may still get the link in at some point ;)

 

Regarding Scot McKay, as far as I know he isn't a PUA, but he is associated with some of the more known in the scene. He is more focused on the relationship aspect though, and talks about having high value and not just "getting laid". Which is why I do like reading his newsletters, and I would like to invest in some of his products.

 

Send me a link in PM to his stuff, he is my kind of guy.

 

I often listen carefully to learn about a woman's father and if she is the apple of his eye. It is that first man who in fact teaches her about men.

I also do that balzac, also watch out for the relationship between her parents, if they have been together forever and they literally compliment each other [it's like 2 pieces working in perfect synch], as equals ... than you hit the jackpot.

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I'm not sure I agree with your first paragraph. I do agree with your second paragraph though. For one thing, women in particular like to think in terms of Stories, Connection, and Meant To Be. For another, no one falls in love by adding up their partner's "value" in different areas and checking to see how high the score is. It really is more about how the other person makes us feel. For many women in particular, it really is more about how you "click" and as long as there is at least only a basic level of the "value" LG discusses, then you're good to go.

 

LG was slammed pretty harshly himself though, even though he has a point, which several people didn't even attempt to see. Some of the posts against his point were ridiculous. The evidence supporting is point is in plain sight. Why is it that there are guys who seem to get with the woman they really want to be with? What do these guys have? Is it because they Deserve What They Want? Could be somewhat related to the "value" concept LG was talking about.

 

I'm not sure where LG said in his thread that women are attracted to jerks by the way.

 

Precisely. I think it's beneficial for guys to have an understanding of it, but I don't think that women think of it the same way and it can put a woman off if a man thinks of dating in such a way, even though it may benefit him to have that kind of understanding of it.

 

LG was slammed harshly because he is deliberately antagonistic, and often. He does make good points and I try not to go with the herd, as do a couple of other posters I tend to have an understanding with - it is the constant antagonism that makes them a target. In that thread, I felt it was overly harsh, but likely it was a backlash to some of his other threads.

 

His "women attracted to jerks" was in another thread by Necromancer, in which he was slammed equally harshly, including by myself admittedly.

 

Regarding his point about value, I think his point was pretty much spot on which is why I didn't bite in that thread, I think everyone should really think about their value, how to increase it, and how to find their niche and their market.

 

I hadn't read that thread but just did, Ima, in order to understand what you are saying on here.

 

Just wanted to say I think the two of you have covered most of the problems happening there. There was definitely a bit of a gender issue going on. I think a lot of it is to do with this 'gendertranslation' device we're missing.

 

I would normally add this to the end of that thread, but it went so dodgy, I don't think it's wise to resurrect it. Besides, I think the article here does a better job of it, so should be read more! Women and men do approach dating differently. As I read that thread, I thought both sides had a good point that the other side couldn't see.

 

LG's advice was good of you wanted a MCDate but the ladies were looking for their dream guy. You can apply the principal of markets more broadly. E.g. If one unemployed person wanted a MCJob and the other wouldn't settle for less than their dream job, you'd give different advice to each unemployed individual. You'd give the generalised advice (like LG's) to the person who'd take any job - and it WOULD help. But it'd be too generalised for someone looking for work in a niche market. They would have to do what they do better than anyone else and, they'd be certain there was an employer out there for whom their CV would be the perfect fit. It's true that the general advice wouldn't do them much harm, but they might consider focusing on it to be mostly a waste of time.

 

It's like being a seller, also. You've got a product you want to sell in Walmart (Asda!) So you package it in a way that will attract the biggest sales. But if you've got a rare antique, you need to change your trading post, always looking out for the one 'right buyer', and completely change your sales pitch to a very personal one.

 

Simply put, I'm saying there's not just one market out there. There are the 'meat markets' and nightclubs, and there are dinner parties and websites for people who like dressing up as adult babies(!) My compromise for the market/value question is: find your buyer first. Then up your value within that (possibly very niche) market to the best of your ability.

 

Does that cover both perspectives? :o

 

Also, that thread missed the crucial factor of where women and men get their self-esteem from in dating. And this is what the above article communicates so well.

 

*Anyone noticed how I bumped this thread because I like it? ;)

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I stopped reading at "Any man can get a beautiful women".

 

A line like that reminds me of those pitches like "get a college degree online in 6 months" or "make 100,000 dollars a year filling out internet surveys!"- anything that suggests anyone can do X by buying something (especially an E-book) is a too-good-to-be-true scam and an attempt to take money from you without giving you anything in return.

 

Not every man "can get" a beautiful woman with his words alone. Women have to look beautiful and that's about it, men have to talk a good game and look "beautiful".

Read it :laugh:

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Well, it's in my signature but it looks a bloody mess! If anyone knows how to improve on that and thinks they could give me childproof instructions, feel free! :laugh:

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I stopped reading at "Any man can get a beautiful women".

 

A line like that reminds me of those pitches like "get a college degree online in 6 months" or "make 100,000 dollars a year filling out internet surveys!"- anything that suggests anyone can do X by buying something (especially an E-book) is a too-good-to-be-true scam and an attempt to take money from you without giving you anything in return.

 

Not every man "can get" a beautiful woman with his words alone. Women have to look beautiful and that's about it, men have to talk a good game and look "beautiful".

 

lol I don't agree with your last paragraph, it's actually harder for women than men unlike the popular belief on LS, but I won't get into that. I like you and your posts though.:D

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Decent article. I don't disagree with the premise, but I do have one question though about the logic...

 

BUT...there are other women--in far greater numbers--who simply find it EASY TO REJECT men who appear to want them only for sex. To those women, YOU are part of the PROBLEM, not the SOLUTION.

 

. . .

 

Either that, or...um...they have HIGH self-esteem. Enough to know that

they aren't going to settle for a guy who only wants sex.

 

. . .

 

Value women on a deeper level than purely as sexual conquests, and gain the advantage of more quickly identifying the most fantastic,

beautiful women out there who also happen to have tremendous

emotional health and stability.

 

 

The author's guidance requires the assumption that high-value, high self-esteem women can actually identify and avoid the guys who only want sex.

 

Can this assumption hold honestly true in the "real world"...?

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No offense TW but the brunette he's basing his hypothesis on, sounds like a hooker with two johns. :laugh:

 

exactly, DUH! :lmao: Two old men and a young women? TRUE LOVE!

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Beyond the brunette threesome scenario, what bothers me about the article is the primary focus on physical beauty, even though he does redeem himself by telling guys not to just value the woman as a sexual object.

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What are your opinions on this particular piece of literature I received in my inbox??

 

You actually read all that? :p

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Beyond the brunette threesome scenario, what bothers me about the article is the primary focus on physical beauty, even though he does redeem himself by telling guys not to just value the woman as a sexual object.

 

This is likely because the primary focus of the article is men and women with low self-esteem who seem to fuel the very existence of their counterparts, according to the author's theory, and physical beauty tends to be the focus of "attraction" for them.

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This is likely because the primary focus of the article is men and women with low self-esteem who seem to fuel the very existence of their counterparts, according to the author's theory, and physical beauty tends to be the focus of "attraction" for them.

Precisely. :)

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This is likely because the primary focus of the article is men and women with low self-esteem who seem to fuel the very existence of their counterparts, according to the author's theory, and physical beauty tends to be the focus of "attraction" for them.
It doesn't escape the acquisitional mindset, the trophy winning.

 

If only people could break out of this and realize that relationships are personal connections, where what matters is the connection, one where sex and intimacy act like glue to cement all the rest of the human emotions tied into being together with someone you love.

 

So difficult to explain but so lovely to...feel. :love:

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