Is There Something Wrong with American Culture That Makes Dating So Hard?

[Don'tWannabeAWannabe]

So don't take me as a misogynist, because a lot of what I'm about to say is quoted from a Greek guy I meet last night. I was at a lounge last night (not a exactly a club; no dance floor, better lighting, more relaxed ambient music) And there were a lot of beautiful women there, but as usual, they were all either on dates, huddled in their tiny circles or surrounding only 1 guy. There were no girls there solo (as usual).

 

I was at the bar waiting for an opportunity to speak to a girl, any girl, in my viscinity for like 15 minutes (a pause in a conversation; a girl coming in by herself; a girl leaving her girlfriend behind to go to the bathroom, etc) but it wasn't happening, so I finished my drink and went outside to have a cigarette before I left. There was one guy outside smoking. I asked him for a light and he offered me one.

 

We got chatting. I sensed an accent and asked where he's from; he said Greece. He then started complaining about how tough the bar-scene is to meet girls. I said "I hear you," but then he said that it's not only bars. He said it's hard to meet girls in America in general.

 

He talked about how back in Greece, the girls, aside from being very beautiful, are far more welcome and accepting of guys approaching them. He said they're lot friendlier and open, and when you're dating them, not as high maintenance. That, and they're far more open to sex; they give in don't look down on or shame men for wanting to have sex early.

 

He then said something that came and hit be very hard. He said, "Maybe it's because I'm not that all-American blonde guy from the Abercrombie catalogs. I love America, but this country seems to be very good at producing prudes, princesses and bitches."

 

I didn't think much about it at the time. We went our separate ways soon after that. It started sinking in on the way back home. I thought about all the girls I've dated over the years. I realized that the vast majority of them were girls from other countries studying here the US or girls I met while studying abroad overseas.

 

The foreign girls were far more open and kind to me talking to them; they were less high maintenance. They were more interesting to talk to and far more open to sex. And even to those foreign girls who rejected to me, they were far more sensitive and gentler than the American girls (laughing at guys or straigh-up stonewalling seems to be the popular method in this country)

 

When I compared them to the American girls I dated (or tried to date), the foreign girls beat the American girls in every category.

 

To quote the Greek guy, the American girls seemed like "prudes, princesses and bitches" in comparison.

 

And it wasn't only this Greek guy. I met a Russian and Swedish guy in college who felt the same way.

 

It got me thinking; how did it become like this. Is it human-nature that makes dating so hard for guys? Or is it only in America? Is there something wrong about American culture or society that makes women behave this way and makes dating so difficult for men?

Edited April 26, 2010 by Don'tWannabeAWannabe

[ADF]

Forgive me, but your post is nothing but a long-winded whine about how American women won't have sex with you. Well, guess what? Lots of American women meet American men in American bars and have sex with them. All the time. It is not that American woman are "prudes, princesses and bitches." It is just that lately, you're not getting what you want out of them.

[USMCHokie]

I will cite feminism in America as one of the primary factors in creating this perceived "attitude" among American women. It became more customary and even accepted for women to do what men have been doing for centuries to women...and that is to "play them", for lack of a better term...it's basically a balancing of the dating scales to a more equal footing where men basically get back what they have always been dishing out to women...

 

But what do I know...I'm just the pool boy...

 

 

And by the way, bars and clubs still aren't the greatest place to meet women for dating and relationships...especially in Ammrrrrca...

[sweetjasmine]

Forgive me, but your post is nothing but a long-winded whine about how American women won't have sex with you.

 

That's how it sounded to me.

 

And for what it's worth, if I'm at a bar or some social place, I can usually spot the guys who are looking to talk to anyone with a pulse and a vagina and are just there to pick up a chick - any chick. That's huge turn-off, IMO. I'd want someone to approach me because they're interested in me, not because I happen to be female, not-horribly-deformed, breathing, and the only chick who didn't say "go away."

[Don'tWannabeAWannabe]

That's how it sounded to me.

 

And for what it's worth, if I'm at a bar or some social place, I can usually spot the guys who are looking to talk to anyone with a pulse and a vagina and are just there to pick up a chick - any chick. That's huge turn-off, IMO. I'd want someone to approach me because they're interested in me, not because I happen to be female, not-horribly-deformed, breathing, and the only chick who didn't say "go away."

 

Well, how is he supposed to be "interested in you FOR YOU" before he's ever met you? How is he supposed to know who you are or what you're about if you've never spoken to him before?

[sweetjasmine]

Well' date=' how is he supposed to be "interested in you FOR YOU" before he's ever met you? How is he supposed to know who you are or what you're about if you've never spoken to him before?[/quote']

 

By viewing me as a person instead of a score. By not approaching everything with a vagina in hopes that something will stick. By actually being interested in who I am as opposed to what genitals I have.

 

How do you make friends? Do you approach every person regardless of their individual features/qualities/behavior and try to get their number? Or do you just talk to others and treat them like people, first?

[Woggle]

This is why some men prefer to just watch porn. It is much much easier. I am not back on my misogyny kick but clicking on a mouse and getting your rocks is much less stress than the scenario the OP described.

[Lakeside_runner]

Um... no seriously... DUDE! How many people here have told you that bars/clubs are really one of the last places you should look at to get a date...

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm trying to understand WHY ARE YOU SO HUNG UP ON THE BAR SCENE???

[phineas]

Op, you are now realizing what many men realize.

You just arn't the "hot" guy that all the chicks want.

 

Welcome to the club.

[marsle85]

This is why some men prefer to just watch porn. It is much much easier. I am not back on my misogyny kick but clicking on a mouse and getting your rocks is much less stress than the scenario the OP described.

 

 

Yeah, and if you're on your computer for long enough, it may radiate heat. Like um, a girl.

[Don'tWannabeAWannabe]

By viewing me as a person instead of a score. By not approaching everything with a vagina in hopes that something will stick. By actually being interested in who I am as opposed to what genitals I have.

 

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't a guy be interested in both?

[Woggle]

Yeah, and if you're on your computer for long enough, it may radiate heat. Like um, a girl.

 

I don't quite get this.

[Jersey Shortie]

You left out one art Phineas. He's just not the "hot" guy that all the "hot" chicks want.

 

I have no doubt in my mind that there are many differences between cultures. Especially in dating. If foreign women are more open, perhaps foreign men treat them in a way that lets foreign women feel more open? I don't really know. I do know that it is never a question of American women being bitches, prudes and so forth and American men all bein wonderful sweet human beings who never did a girl wrong. And it's certainly not about the fact that foreigners don't face normal male/female issues just as we do here in America.

 

So you and the Greek guy either got shot down too much or had no oppurtunity to meet a nice girl. That's all this post really tells us. It doesn't say anything *real* or *true* about American men, women or foreign men and women.

[sweetjasmine]

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't a guy be interested in both?

 

A guy can be interested in both (so fix what I said in my earlier post), but the problem I see is that you only seem to be interested in the latter. Or if you're not, it's probably coming off that way.

 

What exactly are you looking for? A person to be with or some random chick to bang?

[brainygirl]

Funny, I am a woman and I occasionally go to bars. And very few men approach me unless they are looking to talk to my friend. I would say that American men have so many problems because they only want to talk to think American women who flash a lot of skin and seem easy to impress into bed.

 

How about talking to a thicker girl? How about asking her about books she reads or her take of current events instead of making banal small talk full of double meanings? How about not going for the thin friend in the pair once in a while?

 

I think you'd have more luck getting the time of day from them.

[Lakeside_runner]

2c to the 'Greek guy' thing... he sounds like a lot of people who came over here and have this idyllic picture of their home country. They simply forgot why they left it. Believe me - it's a very simple mechanism. It's like when you see an ad in TV that says "India. Beautiful India" or something like that and you don't see the poverty and what's really going on there backstage (disclaimer: I just picked India as an example since I've seen an ad recently). After a couple of years people remember just the nice things... Same goes for dating I think. People everywhere are more or less the same. You'd meet prudes, bitches and princesses in the US, all over Europe and Australia. It's just a creation of the western culture.

 

THERE IS ALSO PLENTY OF NICE GIRLS in the US and Europe... just get the right mindset about the world that surrounds you and start meeting them!

[Jersey Shortie]

well brainygirl, sadly, even regular guys today think they deserve the next cover model on Maxim magazine. So they arne't really complaining about how regular girls don't want them. They are complaining about how really hot girls don't want them.

[skydiveaddict]

well brainygirl, sadly, even regular guys today think they deserve the next cover model on Maxim magazine. So they arne't really complaining about how regular girls don't want them. They are complaining about how really hot girls don't want them.

That's not entirely true Shortie. In this society a woman can pick and choose who she wants. Men are left feeling dissatisfied and there in lies the trouble

[Don'tWannabeAWannabe]

well brainygirl, sadly, even regular guys today think they deserve the next cover model on Maxim magazine. So they arne't really complaining about how regular girls don't want them. They are complaining about how really hot girls don't want them.

 

Believe me, no one is more annoyed than I am by regular guys who think they deserve a girl who's model-perfect. I had friends who were overweight or dressed like slobs or never went out or, if they did, hung out in dingy places and it would bug the hell out of me when they complained about being single.

 

I actually kinda "broke up" with a friend over it. This guy held a pretty good job, but he was a gun hobbyist who spent thousands of dollars on rifles, hand guns, hunting gear, ammunition, gun-club memberships and shooting ranges; even did a private combat-training course. And yet he would always complain about never having a girlfriend.

 

I eventually snapped and told him, "Dude, if you spent as much money on a decent wardrobe and a gym membership as you did on guns, you wouldn't be single." But the guy just didn't get it.

 

The thing is, I'm NOT a regular guy. Not to brag, but I'm slim and in shape, I'm tan, I own a decent wardrobe that actually fits (a lot of people have told me that before they heard me speak, they assumed I was European simply for the way I dress) I'm educated and informed on current events (I read the NYT and the Atlantic every day) I've traveled around the world (studied abroad a few times) I like to hang out in upscale establishments. I'm musically talented, and though I'm not wildly successful, I have a solid and promising career while I know a lot of guys my age are having trouble finding even a part time job. I'm even going to grad school.

 

I'm young, but I've really accomplished a lot and really do my best to better myself all the time, so I know I deserve someone who's beautiful.

[USMCHokie]

The thing is, I'm NOT a regular guy. Not to brag, but I'm slim and in shape, I'm tan, I own a decent wardrobe that actually fits (a lot of people have told me that before they heard me speak, they assumed I was European simply for the way I dress) I'm educated and informed on current events (I read the NYT and the Atlantic every day) I've traveled around the world (studied abroad a few times) I like to hang out in upscale establishments. I'm musically talented, and though I'm not wildly successful, I have a solid and promising career while I know a lot of guys my age are having trouble finding even a part time job. I'm even going to grad school.

 

 

Well, you never mentioned this above, but do you have a purdy face...? Because a purdy face is rather helpful... But the attitude has to go and the approach has to change...unless you want to be the next Tucker Max...but I don't think that's something you're looking for...or is it...?

[Sazerac]

The thing is, I'm NOT a regular guy. Not to brag, but I'm slim and in shape, I'm tan, I own a decent wardrobe that actually fits (a lot of people have told me that before they heard me speak, they assumed I was European simply for the way I dress) I'm educated and informed on current events (I read the NYT and the Atlantic every day) I've traveled around the world (studied abroad a few times) I like to hang out in upscale establishments. I'm musically talented, and though I'm not wildly successful, I have a solid and promising career while I know a lot of guys my age are having trouble finding even a part time job. I'm even going to grad school.

 

I'm young, but I've really accomplished a lot and really do my best to better myself all the time, so I know I deserve someone who's beautiful.

 

If this is the smug, self-righteous, entitled way you come across to women, no wonder you're having trouble finding someone.

 

Let me tell you something, from one guy to another. You deserve NOTHING other than the basic respect a human being owes another. You are not "owed" anything because of your education, your build, your wardrobe, or whatever establishment you deign to hang out in.

 

Yes, you are young. I suggest you have a lot to learn about women before it's all over.

[brainygirl]

 

I'm young, but I've really accomplished a lot and really do my best to better myself all the time, so I know I deserve someone who's beautiful.

 

And therein lies the problem. You are equating the value of the woman you want with her appearance.

 

I am sure there are beautiful, accomplished women out there, but they are probably too busy pursuing their own interests and careers to worry about which up and coming dude wants them to be arm candy.

 

I don't know what your approach is, but I can tell you I wouldn't date you. The attitude you exhibit is not attractive. You are so wrapped up in your own pedigree that there isn't room for anyone else.

 

I am sure you have wonderful qualities. I think you need an attitude adjustment and some humility and to try chatting up ladies you normally wouldn't. I think your results will change.

[kiss_andmakeup]

The thing is, I'm NOT a regular guy. Not to brag, but I'm slim and in shape, I'm tan, I own a decent wardrobe that actually fits (a lot of people have told me that before they heard me speak, they assumed I was European simply for the way I dress) I'm educated and informed on current events (I read the NYT and the Atlantic every day) I've traveled around the world (studied abroad a few times) I like to hang out in upscale establishments. I'm musically talented, and though I'm not wildly successful, I have a solid and promising career while I know a lot of guys my age are having trouble finding even a part time job. I'm even going to grad school.

 

I'm young, but I've really accomplished a lot and really do my best to better myself all the time, so I know I deserve someone who's beautiful.

 

None of that matters as a guy trying to pick up girls on a shallow basis.

 

On a superficial level, women are desired for their looks, and men for their money/power. So, if you are aiming at the top 5% of women looks-wise, you need to be in the top-5% of men money-wise.

 

Are you? No, you already stated you're not, and this is no fault of your own, you're young, well-rounded, and working on your education. You're right where you should be. Of course you're not making 6 figures. But I'm sorry, if you're approaching the situation with an "I deserve a perfect 10" attitude, of course you're not going to find what you're looking for. The super hot 21 year old girls are dating the wealthy, established 30-something guys.

 

Like I said, there are always exceptions, but those exceptions are usually not found at bars and clubs, and they, because they aren't shallow, won't see your tan or your Armani Exchange clothing as points in your column.

 

If you want women who value your experiences, education, wit, and worldy-ness more than your income, you need to value theirs more than their perceived physical "beauty."

 

DO YOU GET IT YET???

[Mattock5656]

I love these threads because it usually consists of someone attacking one gender and then that opposing gender gets offended and the battle begins. Although the op does raise a interesting point. I wouldn't shift the blame to a specific gender as to what problems exist in the society but rather the entire culture of America. As compared to Europe and some other places in the world. America revolves obsessively around the notion of buying stuff. That is a lot people would rather put their time and energy towards obtaining materiaistic objects or having them. People in Europe tend to be more on top of current events and more intellectual therefore making it easier to have a icebreaker.

 

But out of everything, I think the biggest problem we have is hyper-individualization. Everyone is on their own island, stroking their ego which in return makes them super selfish. Everyone at some point is selfish, but it gets to the point here where a lot of people are really rude, stuck up and generally hard to talk to it seems. Not saying other places are perfect and problems exist everywhere, but it becomes difficult to have a conversation with people because we are so separated from each other as a society. It seems people put a un-necessary barrier between each other which it makes it difficult just to talk to someone it seems. Don't get me wrong, I have some great conservations with people from time to time but it seems the only time people want to conserve is when they want something or its business related.

 

All in all, my experiences in Europe it seems that they have more of a community where people stick together more which in return makes for people being generally nicer. As compared to America, we barely having any community therefore, fueling this hyper-individualization. Again, not everyone is going to be super friendly, as their gonna be rude people everywhere. Male or Female, our problems lie on more grand social problems rather than specific genders.

 

That is my two cents...

[gypsy_nicky]

I will agree with what the majority here are saying. OP, it seems your only looking for poontang which sexually objectifies women. Western women especially do not like this, although it may seem they do because they prize their looks.

 

Your attitude is somewhat pompous too. I deserve an attractive woman because I view myself and maintain myself as an attractive dude. Do the women feel the same but?

 

You will also have to remember that Western culture is very much individualistic and a status culture where we base our self worth and others on status objects, ideas and perceptions etc. So women will generally gravitate towards those they feel have these qualities.