Mystery Method, Mind of Mystery, PUA

[creyente7]

who thinks this stuff works? is it worth trying, paying for, time, and doing? what is the age requirements for this stuff to work at its fullest potential?

 

i dont know where else to post this but im just really curious, tnx in advance to whoever gives me their opinions

[soulm8]

Well, I'm pretty sure that my last guy probably invested in it because he was smooth as hell... and really knew how to navigate me to have the upper hand.

 

All I want to say is PLEASE don't get greedy and inhumane. It's one thing to use your new skills to get laid, get experienced, whatever... but it's quite another to also deceive women about your intentions.

 

If you're not looking for a relationship just be upfront and honest. Most women will respect that, and some will be challenged by it... just don't out right lie.

[TaraMaiden]

This is the problem with such websites.

They're open to everyone to read.... both men and women.

So... we go in there, learn your so-called seduction techniques.... and hey presto! Forewarned is forearmed!

 

Intelligent women, read them, and wet themselves laughing, it's pathetic.

ergo, the only women you're liable to attract are the thick ones, who wouldn't know a scam if it smacked them between the eyes.

 

But if gullible, needy, unintelligent and susceptible women is what you want - then go for it.

 

You reap what you sow....

 

Picking them up might be successful - but if it's a lasting relationship you want - will it be?

And - be careful what you wish for.......

[torranceshipman]

I think it sounds sleazy - I read on a promo site how the DVD includes 'picking up real women' with the technique. Lol. Sounds like a guide in how to lie and charm your way into a girls bed, then presumably leave after as you didnt mean any of the nice things that you said to actually get her there in the first place. So then she is hurt. Great....so, I think this technique is just a money-making scheme that teaches guys how to be a bit of a dirtbag and lets face it, your success level will probably go up significantly if you lose your conscience and are prepared to just lie and tell a girl what she wants to hear in order to get laid. If you want to go down that route I don't think you need to waste money on a guide of how to do it! Just be honest.

[meerkat stew]

Not by any means a PUA or a subscriber to these things, but I love watching women go on about how sleazy or knavish the various PUA techniques peddled about are, when it's apparent that they haven't read one word or learned one supposed "trick."

 

Because if they actually had read the stuff, it's all just basic human communications skills and attention getting devices, much of which is straight from the FEMALE playbook adapted for men who are challenged in that area. I have never seen any PUA site or guru EVER counsel lying to women, telling someone you love them when you don't, making promises you don't intend to keep. In fact, whole chapters of this PUA stuff are devoted to plainly telling the truth about one's intentions for a casual tumble. If there are dishonest, lying techniques out there, they certainly aren't part of the main PUA marketplace that I can see, which seems to counsel a balance between communication skills, inner confidence and mastering one's sexuality. Wow that sounds like they are wanting men to... be better, more interesting men. We can't have that!

 

Like any good marketing plan, and like any of 1000s of articles one can read in any of 100s of women's magazines in any given month, the whole PUA culture is about putting one's best face on, putting one's best foot forward and faking confidence until one truly -is- confident.

 

Creatures who actually apply PAINT to their faces on a daily basis have not one leg to stand on when crying foul over almost all of these so-called tricks.

 

For example, one common PUA so-called trick is called "peacocking," wearing audacious, flattering clothing that draws attention, using it as a prop when approaching the opposite sex. Well my o my ladies watch out, some slippery PUA out in the grass somewhere is counseling men to wear bright clothing... run and hide your virtue. I guess no women have ever heard of this highly manipulative "bright clothing" trick, or its cousin, an arcane and highly questionable technique called "accessorizing."

 

And then there's "negging," teasing someone as opposed to kissing their ass to make one appear interesting. Yet another technique completely foreign to women, who have never teased men or played hard to get in the process of getting what they want. Strap on the chastity belt! Some man somewhere teased a woman right into bed! Guard your daughters.

 

Then there's speed seduction, using interesting, compelling language to build an emotional link with someone and elicit an emotional response in them. Building familiarity with an audience. Just plain old marketing dressed up in fancy lingo. No one ever thought that being a colorful conversationalist could build interest and attraction in another human being, amazing! Why I've actually seen men use this one to levitate women right out of their clothes and into the back of a "love van." I learned this exact "PUA" technique verbatim at stockbroker training back in the mid 80s. At that time it was called Neuro Linguistic Processing, and consisted of making people like you by building familiarity with them. Truly Dale Carnegie repackaged for a technical age that likes big words, but not at all original or controversial.

 

Name any other PUA technique and the underpinnings are just basic communications skills or "attraction" skills we all know as familiar. Watch one of those shows, which I just did for the first time 15 minutes ago (thanks for the link), and look at those guys who live in the house. They fairly obviously need help with lots of basic communications skills. This show is really a "makeup and makeover" show for men, another version of "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy," but because it involves getting women to do what they wanted to do anyway, it is scorned instead of appreciated.

 

And let's talk more about getting women to do what they wanted to do anyway. Is seduction so bad? Is a flirt really going to "take advantage" of any woman with half a brain if she doesn't want whatever is being sold? Of course not, we all know that. To assume that women will do whatever men want them to as long as the pitch is right discounts free will in women. Do we really want to turn back the clock by assuming that women out and about are subject to some magic words or spells that will drop their panties? How much more objectifying could a view be? yet it seems to be the view that women espouse when decrying this stuff.

 

If on the other hand, the PUA culture is creating armies of men who dress attractively, are excellent conversationalists and capable of engaging women on an emotional level, is that really such a horrible outcome? Whenever I see one of those ugly duckling makeover shows, I feel good for the girl who gets done over. She has a chance to have a normal social life now. Why don't we feel similar for some clueless guy who buys a book that teaches basic communications skills under the guise of doing something he's never been able to do... have a normal social life with women?

 

What's all the clamor really about? at its core?Ladies, you do love that victim role, don't you? and conjuring up a culture of lying men who take advantage plays right into that role, doesn't it? Why not grow up and drop the victim mentality in all aspects of life, social, political, and spiritual. The world and gender relations will be a much better place when you finally get around to maturing past that feeble old crutch.

Edited February 4, 2010 by meerkat stew

[Woggle]

I don't like this stuff but it does work on a large number of women.

[Green]

I think when you read material like this you should be careful. I mean lot of the advice is common sense. The problem is with all the code words and fluff they need to put in to make an entire book sometimes they forget to humanize women.

 

Personaly I can give you the advice you need to get women right her. Be confident in yourself. That means aproach that women you like instead of making up excuses. Don't be afraid to be bold, say romantic things, flirt, and touch and kiss when you see an opening. Above all else have fun, because being nervouse and self depricating is unatractive.

 

The PUA advice is common sense. Most of it is just excersises for men who have "approach anxiety." Which means some men are so unconfident that when they see a woman they are attracted to they are affraid to approach.

 

Negging is just flirting. They give you canned lines too but encourage men to be spontaneous and make up their own jokes or conversations. The books basicaly explain to men romance.

 

I think the problem lies in glorification of dating many women. Seriously I would never want to date many women. I know that I have a special gf. And if something happened to where I didn't have her I do have the social skills necesary to attract women.

[OnlyJake]

I agree with pretty much everything here. Basically what it all comes down to is how to sell yourself to women. I think the whole PUA thing has a bad rap because a lot of guys who are into it are skeevy like you would not believe.

 

One of my bfs (the favorite one who got 3am bjs) was really into that whole thing just before he met me, and he was really good at it. BUT he wasn't a shady weirdo who was doing it to get laid, he was interested in learning new ways of communicating and relating to people, etc. (and mostly he really wanted to see if it worked). He was charming like you wouldn't believe, and we dated for a couple years, had a great relationship for the most part.

 

He also shared all that stuff with me, and I read a lot of the same materials that he read (including The Game). It was fun.

 

What it all comes down to is what you choose to take away from the PUA junk.

 

 

Not by any means a PUA or a subscriber to these things, but I love watching women go on about how sleazy or knavish the various PUA techniques peddled about are, when it's apparent that they haven't read one word or learned one supposed "trick."

 

Because if they actually had read the stuff, it's all just basic human communications skills and attention getting devices, much of which is straight from the FEMALE playbook adapted for men who are challenged in that area. I have never seen any PUA site or guru EVER counsel lying to women, telling someone you love them when you don't, making promises you don't intend to keep. In fact, whole chapters of this PUA stuff are devoted to plainly telling the truth about one's intentions for a casual tumble. If there are dishonest, lying techniques out there, they certainly aren't part of the main PUA marketplace that I can see, which seems to counsel a balance between communication skills, inner confidence and mastering one's sexuality. Wow that sounds like they are wanting men to... be better, more interesting men. We can't have that!

 

Like any good marketing plan, and like any of 1000s of articles one can read in any of 100s of women's magazines in any given month, the whole PUA culture is about putting one's best face on, putting one's best foot forward and faking confidence until one truly -is- confident.

 

Creatures who actually apply PAINT to their faces on a daily basis have not one leg to stand on when crying foul over almost all of these so-called tricks.

 

For example, one common PUA so-called trick is called "peacocking," wearing audacious, flattering clothing that draws attention, using it as a prop when approaching the opposite sex. Well my o my ladies watch out, some slippery PUA out in the grass somewhere is counseling men to wear bright clothing... run and hide your virtue. I guess no women have ever heard of this highly manipulative "bright clothing" trick, or its cousin, an arcane and highly questionable technique called "accessorizing."

 

And then there's "negging," teasing someone as opposed to kissing their ass to make one appear interesting. Yet another technique completely foreign to women, who have never teased men or played hard to get in the process of getting what they want. Strap on the chastity belt! Some man somewhere teased a woman right into bed! Guard your daughters.

 

Then there's speed seduction, using interesting, compelling language to build an emotional link with someone and elicit an emotional response in them. Building familiarity with an audience. Just plain old marketing dressed up in fancy lingo. No one ever thought that being a colorful conversationalist could build interest and attraction in another human being, amazing! Why I've actually seen men use this one to levitate women right out of their clothes and into the back of a "love van." I learned this exact "PUA" technique verbatim at stockbroker training back in the mid 80s. At that time it was called Neuro Linguistic Processing, and consisted of making people like you by building familiarity with them. Truly Dale Carnegie repackaged for a technical age that likes big words, but not at all original or controversial.

 

Name any other PUA technique and the underpinnings are just basic communications skills or "attraction" skills we all know as familiar. Watch one of those shows, which I just did for the first time 15 minutes ago (thanks for the link), and look at those guys who live in the house. They fairly obviously need help with lots of basic communications skills. This show is really a "makeup and makeover" show for men, another version of "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy," but because it involves getting women to do what they wanted to do anyway, it is scorned instead of appreciated.

 

And let's talk more about getting women to do what they wanted to do anyway. Is seduction so bad? Is a flirt really going to "take advantage" of any woman with half a brain if she doesn't want whatever is being sold? Of course not, we all know that. To assume that women will do whatever men want them to as long as the pitch is right discounts free will in women. Do we really want to turn back the clock by assuming that women out and about are subject to some magic words or spells that will drop their panties? How much more objectifying could a view be? yet it seems to be the view that women espouse when decrying this stuff.

 

If on the other hand, the PUA culture is creating armies of men who dress attractively, are excellent conversationalists and capable of engaging women on an emotional level, is that really such a horrible outcome? Whenever I see one of those ugly duckling makeover shows, I feel good for the girl who gets done over. She has a chance to have a normal social life now. Why don't we feel similar for some clueless guy who buys a book that teaches basic communications skills under the guise of doing something he's never been able to do... have a normal social life with women?

 

What's all the clamor really about? at its core?Ladies, you do love that victim role, don't you? and conjuring up a culture of lying men who take advantage plays right into that role, doesn't it? Why not grow up and drop the victim mentality in all aspects of life, social, political, and spiritual. The world and gender relations will be a much better place when you finally get around to maturing past that feeble old crutch.

[littlebittle]

one of my best friends since high school is a guy. he has always been kinda shy. he's good-looking, smart, and successful, but for years he just didn't know how to approach girls. he would say weird or awkward things to them, or the conversation would fall flat. he'd ask my friends and me for advice, but it didn't seem to help much. when he was about 26 he starting reading about NLP. from there he began reading about PUA. he actually started attending meetup groups to learn more about it. he got really good at talking to girls. it was crazy to see this sorta shy guy who had had sex with like 6 girls in his life hooking up left and right. i mean, we were amazed.

 

PUA uses pretty basic psychological concepts, so it's bound to help you with interpersonal communication skills. it also relies on NLP (neuro-linguistic programming), which is an unfalsifiable form of therapy which is popular in the self-help industry. as a psychologist, as far as i'm concerned, PUA can't hurt your game. i think my friend really did no more than pay for one or two books, so it wasn't an expensive endeavor in any way. you should try it.

 

the one issue that arose with my friend was that he still couldn't really get the kind of girls he wanted (ie. the type of girls who would make suitable girlfriends). for the most part, the techniques he learned from PUA helped him get girls who often turned out to be not very smart or have emotional problems or low self esteem. he said that it seemed like the more intelligent and confident (and sober) girls did not appear to be as receptive to the PUA stuff. eventually he did find a girlfriend, and they've been together for two years. she actually approached him at a party, and ironically, he didn't get to use the PUA stuff on her. but i think his time spent learning about NLP and PUA has really helped his social life in general.

[meerkat stew]

for the most part, the techniques he learned from PUA helped him get girls who often turned out to be not very smart or have emotional problems or low self esteem. he said that it seemed like the more intelligent and confident (and sober) girls did not appear to be as receptive to the PUA stuff.

 

Very nice post and attitude, refreshing, and it's true, most intelligent women aren't going to respond instantly to a guy who comes up and waves a feather boa in her face and gives a "special gift necklace" that she is to hold onto and give back "one day."

 

The confidence your friend got is real, though, as are the conversational skills. He can now go out and have a much better chance with -any- women based on these real qualities he has gained through his experience.

 

PUA is really just training wheels for guys who never rode a bike. Once the training wheels come off, they can ride the bike for real without the wheels.

[meerkat stew]

He also shared all that stuff with me, and I read a lot of the same materials that he read (including The Game). It was fun.

 

Lordy, Jakey, a woman who has read, and enjoyed that stuff? Bet you are devastating out and about. This brings up a good point. Most of the stuff is completely adaptable to women, the types who start threads here about being too shy, etc.

[paddington bear]

Lordy, Jakey, a woman who has read, and enjoyed that stuff? Bet you are devastating out and about. This brings up a good point. Most of the stuff is completely adaptable to women, the types who start threads here about being too shy, etc.

 

I agree - I actually read the Neil Strauss book. I guess my one problem with it was that the underlying theme was to just get women into bed - I know there's the disclaimer of saying to the girls that that's all you're up for, but that whole side of it made me feel a bit uneasy, like an army of men were being trained to only find out how to get women into the bedroom (even though the author at the end says love conquers all). Then again, it's not for us women, take the bit out about scoring women casually and change it to 'marriage' (which many men would have the same uneasy feeling about, she's trying to trick me into marriage) and it pretty much works either way.

 

I don't see what's wrong with guys who are not so socially good getting some sound techniques to get to speak and flirt with the opposite sex

[sally4sara]

I suppose it could be a benefit if properly applied.

 

Tho one peek into the forums that go with the books lets you know a good portion of people who find this appealing do not do it to find a life mate. And the books do not intend you to find your perfect partner. It is to get laid and get numbers and then go on the forums to post about it in their "lay reports" or take photos of the girl and post them on their rating forum so other members can assess the value of the girl in question. How much time was she worth investing based on only her appearance and when she should be dusted off after getting her into bed. The language used about the girls they target is hateful and crass.

It perpetuates a problem we were already dealing with by capitalizing on awkward people wishing to fit in better.

 

I have a friend who, upon the onset of puberty, was diagnosed with a serious life threatening illness. The battle and the treatment stunted his growth and left him with patchy hair and scars on his body. He never grew past what appears to be a 14 year old rail thin boy body. Up until 2 years ago, he lived with his parents as well. He is not and likely never will be wealthy as he is a freelance artist. He doesn't own a car or have a license.

His last three girl friends were gorgeous; each moreso then the previous. He is getting ready to propose to his current live in GF.

He does not use these methods.

If he can find success with women without using cheap ploys and spreading STDs by settling for a night or two with the easiest folks in town, ANYONE can.

[Trialbyfire]

Dating techniques are all about psychological manipulation, which can draw the underbelly of the dating world.

[OnlyJake]

Pretty much any book on communication tells you the same things you find in The Game. It's just how it's specifically applied in that novel that is different. That book was brilliantly marketed, which I love, since the whole book is about how to successfully market yourself.

[meerkat stew]

ITho one peek into the forums that go with the books lets you know a good portion of people who find this appealing do not do it to find a life mate.

 

Yes, you are correct, most are teenage boy trolls. Welcome to the net! especially any part of the net that has anything to do with getting laid.

[meerkat stew]

Pretty much any book on communication tells you the same things you find in The Game. It's just how it's specifically applied in that novel that is different. That book was brilliantly marketed, which I love, since the whole book is about how to successfully market yourself.

 

It doesn't seem like many people actually read the whole book, as the last third of it is very harsh on the empty PUA lifestyle, and Strauss ends up ditching the scene for the most part when he finds a cool GF. And yes, absolutely on the marketing, the "bible" format with the red marker and the cover illustration? Hilarious. A woman turned me onto that book ironically. Loaned my copy out (i.e, gave it away ) or would reread it.

[Phateless]

who thinks this stuff works? is it worth trying, paying for, time, and doing? what is the age requirements for this stuff to work at its fullest potential?

 

i dont know where else to post this but im just really curious, tnx in advance to whoever gives me their opinions

 

The principles behind it do work. It's basically just self-improvement with an emphasis on relating to women.

 

I don't believe in using canned lines and routines, but the basic principles of sociology and psychology will help you figure out how to relate to women better.

 

Reading up on that stuff helped me change my own life for the better.

[meerkat stew]

Dating techniques are all about psychological manipulation, which can draw the underbelly of the dating world.

 

Well, if one wants to be conclusory, it's equally fair to say that all human social interaction is about psychological manipulation.

[Trialbyfire]

The principles behind it do work. It's basically just self-improvement with an emphasis on relating to women.

 

I don't believe in using canned lines and routines, but the basic principles of sociology and psychology will help you figure out how to relate to women better.

 

Reading up on that stuff helped me change my own life for the better.

While I don't believe this of your usage of PUA techniques, not everyone has boundaries of ethical behaviour. If you take a look at how much psychological manipulation is incorporated into the Mystery Method, it will attract the underbelly of the dating world, as a way to control another person, to get what you want from them.

 

People seriously need to look at the source, Mystery himself, his attempted suicides and also his personality disorder.

[meerkat stew]

People seriously need to look at the source, Mystery himself, his attempted suicides and also his personality disorder.

 

Many people who are the "best" at something or gifted, aren't exactly contented, well-adjusted, mentally healthy human beings, could make a long list, but will just say "celebrities" instead.

[Phateless]

While I don't believe this of your usage of PUA techniques, not everyone has boundaries of ethical behaviour. If you take a look at how much psychological manipulation is incorporated into the Mystery Method, it will attract the underbelly of the dating world, as a way to control another person, to get what you want from them.

 

People seriously need to look at the source, Mystery himself, his attempted suicides and also his personality disorder.

 

While your point is valid, unless you've read The Venusian Arts Handbook from cover to cover, as I have, you can't pretend to know the intentions behind the material.

 

One could easily and effectively argue that Cosmopolitan Magazine teaches women the exact same things.

 

The real purpose of PUA stuff is to teach men how to be their best selves and to give them the skills to get to know women. There is a lot of good it can do, and a lot of great guys are in happy relationships with women who love them BECAUSE of PUA principles.

 

I respect your opinion TBF, but I genuinely believe you are being judgmental on this issue, without all the information.

[Trialbyfire]

While your point is valid, unless you've read The Venusian Arts Handbook from cover to cover, as I have, you can't pretend to know the intentions behind the material.

 

One could easily and effectively argue that Cosmopolitan Magazine teaches women the exact same things.

 

The real purpose of PUA stuff is to teach men how to be their best selves and to give them the skills to get to know women. There is a lot of good it can do, and a lot of great guys are in happy relationships with women who love them BECAUSE of PUA principles.

 

I respect your opinion TBF, but I genuinely believe you are being judgmental on this issue, without all the information.

I also respect your opinion and because of this, will read the above book, cover to cover.

 

Cosmo is crap. EOM.

[Skump]

I wonder if many of the people ragging on PUA theory and techniques have actually read any of its canonical literature, etc., The Mystery Method.

 

I have my doubts. I've given the "Mystery Method" a read, and I can say in all honesty that it's just a frank discussion of human psychology aimed at helping men project themselves favorably and give women what they manifestly want in early courtship.

 

Nowhere does Mystery advocate dishonesty in dealing with women. In fact, he doesn't advocate trying to seduce women in the early stages of contact, even if the guy's objective is simply a roll in the hay. That's not just moralizing on his part, either. In the Mystery Method, "seduction" comes last, after basic attraction and personal comfort have already been established (and given that, I don't think Mystery's idea of "seduction" would be a match to the normal use of the word).

 

Basically, if you call the girl the next day and she's breathing ice cubes - you've failed the Mystery Method. Great "game" should leave everyone better off.

 

Now, there's no question that you can use Mystery's theory and techniques for evil. But that's true of any useful theory in psychology.

 

Most important (for me), the advice in the The Mystery Method parallels my own experiences. I've never had trouble talking to women or getting dates, and I recognized much of Mystery's advice in my dating behavior. Reading the book wasn't some sort of diabolical revelation. I came away with a greater consciousness of my "game," a useful vocabulary and set of concepts, and a sharpened view of human psychology.

[Green]

A truly evil person is probably going to do well with girls any ways and be what PUA reading material refers to as a natural. PUA material is truely aimed at men who are frustrated, you know the guy who can only get a gf by luck or never.