Persistence? How much is too much (or too little)

[Miko]

I hear a lot of guys say they never 'chase' women or maybe that if a woman doesn't answer or call you back to just 'give up' or whatever but I don't know if I buy that.

 

I've always been fairly quick to throw in the towel because I don't want to 'deal with that' crap or end up coming across over zealous but I look at my friends, married or otherwise and most of them, one in particular, kept calling his (future) wife again and again and just plain wouldn't give up until she went out with him. Well, now they're married, happy as hell and they're probably as close to perfect for each other as is likely to happen.

 

So...girls, and guys too I guess, what's your opinion on this?

Where's the line between 'creepy stalker' and 'persistent' man out to get what he wants who doesn't take no for an answer?

[calizaggy]

Persistance pays off, in my opinion.

 

I think feminism has made guys out to be "creepy" or "stalkers" for pursuing. But as you said, many of our parents and grandparents relentlessly pursued the women they wanted.

[carhill]

'Back in the day' people were single and/or chaste for longer than 10 seconds too, so there was some time for persistence. I haven't seen much of that in my generation and personal dating experiences.

 

My personal boundary is, if I do not get a positive feeling from a response, whether the meat of the response is acceptance of or declining a particular invitation, my attention ends right there. The problem with pursuit after that point, for myself, is, since I'm not looking for a piece of ass but rather a life partner, I invest time, thought and some emotion into the persistence, and that's unhealthy. A more topical (meaning chasing ass) male might have no issues being persistent longer. We're all different. The hard part in either case, unless the guy goes for sex quickly, is weeding out the attention whores, who can give off positive signs for a goodly period of time before reverting to their natural selves. To help with this aspect, I look for progression, a clear movement towards more intimacy. If it isn't clear, then I'm out. Life is too short at my age to play around with this stuff. Too many adventures yet to experience

 

If you're a gentleman and not crude in your persistence, I doubt most healthy women will see you as creepy or a stalker. Regardless, you can't control their perspective nor feelings. That's on them...

[calizaggy]

Is anything worth having easy to obtain?

 

Sure, a guy can go up to a 500 lb woman and most likely obtain her easily..But if there is a woman many people want, what would make her fall right into your arms?

 

I feel the more confident men have no problem pursuing, as if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.. I feel less confident men will have a rejection mentally scar them, so the first sign of rejection makes them run, or quit.

[carhill]

OK, how do you determine that the stranger you're pursuing is worth having other than that fuzzy feeling in your testicles?

 

Is this a woman you've known for years, love and respect as a friend/colleague, etc and that has taken a romantic turn? In that case, I would likely be more persistent. Part of being confident is knowing when to make an informed decision and stick with it, no matter what others might think or opine, even if that decision is to quit a particular path of pursuit. There are other paths.

 

Of course, even a healthy woman (or man) enjoys being pursued, at some level at least. It's an ego boost having that dominance over the desires of another. That said, they also see beyond themselves and respect other's feelings, so do not promote something which they themselves do not feel. I respect that, when I sense it. If the spark isn't there, it isn't there. Acceptance

[calizaggy]

I have found that often times women do not know what they want, and often times it can be decided for them. I do not think attraction is as immediate for women, as it is for men.

 

 

Of course women will say the above is not true, but I have seen it happen far too often.

[carhill]

Fair enough. I see many examples of this on LS. That said, I do not wish to be partnered with a woman who does not know what she wants and/or cannot articulate what she wants. Perhaps that is fine for the young, but death and taxes are a lot more ominous at my age and I don't wish to waste time.

[calizaggy]

I dont think the persistance should consume ones life, and if it is just for sex, then not worth it at all.

 

How many women clearly articulate and know exactly what they want? And many women also play that "hard to get game" that seems to be ingrained in them. Perhaps many want to weed out the guys who want something quick and easy. Or they feel if they are acquired to easily, they wont be appreciated..

[You'reasian]

If I get confirmation from the woman that she's into me, I'll persue her a bit. Otherwise, I'm wasting my time and appearing "creepy"

 

When a girl likes you and you persue = excitement

When a girl doesn't like you and you persue = creepy

[carhill]

This is where understanding oneself, and we're all different, is key. I'll repeat my earlier opinion, and bolden an important part:

 

My personal boundary is, if I do not get a positive feeling from a response, whether the meat of the response is acceptance of or declining a particular invitation, my attention ends right there.

 

-------------------------

 

How many women clearly articulate and know exactly what they want?

 

My personal experience has been that women I've approached in life have been pretty clear and open about their interest or disinterest in myself. I have no way of knowing what they want or don't want and wouldn't presume to either decide that for them or even care. It's not my job nor avocation.

 

Perhaps many want to weed out the guys who want something quick and easy.

 

Very true. That can factor into their perspective. I presume they know they can enjoy the company of a gentleman without spreading their legs for him. Intimacy is comprised of degrees. I expect a healthy woman to know this and be able to act accordingly. They're not required to, nor am I required to be persistent in seeking their attentions or affections.

 

Or they feel if they are acquired too easily, they won't be appreciated..

 

Supply and demand. My persistence (demand) and their lack of interest (dearth of supply) increases their stock in their mind and/or ego. OK, that works. Do you see where that leaves me? Everything finds a balance, not necessarily meaning everyone is equal.

 

I'm offering these opinions based on having been a persistent (perhaps misguidedly so) gentleman in the past. I think there's still a place for it, within personally enacted boundaries of health. The OP will have to decide those for himself.

[b52s]

Persistance pays off, in my opinion.

 

I think feminism has made guys out to be "creepy" or "stalkers" for pursuing. But as you said, many of our parents and grandparents relentlessly pursued the women they wanted.

 

 

Or...you could wind with a restraining order. But, our parents and grand parents could get away with this behavior because it was "romantic"

 

But, see, a lot women aren't as romantic as they used to be, thus...they're willing to put a guy in cuffs for attempting to call more than one time.

 

A man is taking a risk at winding up on that "Sexual Predator" online list that's available to the public these days...and he doesn't want that.

 

Even though, what he did was actually harmless.

 

Women have blown "stalking" so out of proportion it's become rather silly....but a man doesn't want his life ruined over some flakey paranoid woman who wants to call 911 on his arse.

 

Isn't it ironic that our grandparents could do this, be we, as men, cannot...because the law is on the woman's side?

[torranceshipman]

I have found that often times women do not know what they want, and often times it can be decided for them. I do not think attraction is as immediate for women, as it is for men.

 

 

Of course women will say the above is not true, but I have seen it happen far too often.

 

There are cases where both men and women say they want one thing, then do another (just check out the OW/MMs on these boards for proof of how men can be just as capable of that as women!). BUT to just generalize that statement is dangerous and irresponsible, and needs to be contextualized in further detail. Otherwise you walk around thinking that all women need their minds decided for them if they do something that you don't like.

 

Saying 'often it has to be decided or them' sounds genuinely scary to me, in a troll under the bridge kind of way. It sounds like something a stalker or sexual predator would say. Not saying you are either of those but it could easily be conferred as such. I will NOT have a man 'decide things for me' as I am more than capable of doing it myself. Nor would I expect to 'make up a man's mind for him' if he does something I don't like. I'm not into controlling people just so that they conform to what I think they should want: no means no, unless you have some incredibly clear evidence to say otherwise, and I should think those instances are very rare.

[calizaggy]

Saying 'often it has to be decided or them' sounds genuinely scary to me, in a troll under the bridge kind of way. It sounds like something a stalker or sexual predator would say. Not saying you are either of those but it could easily be conferred as such. I will NOT have a man 'decide things for me' as I am more than capable of doing it myself. Nor would I expect to 'make up a man's mind for him' if he does something I don't like. I'm not into controlling people just so that they conform to what I think they should want: no means no, unless you have some incredibly clear evidence to say otherwise, and I should think those instances are very rare.

 

 

It is amazing the words people use to suppress thought. I find it quite humorous..

 

I come from an innocent town and a good family, so I am not thinking about "sexual predators" or "stalkers".

 

I don't care what anyone says, I have seen persistent men end up marrying the woman they want. Women change their minds almost on a daily basis about everything, and often times are horrible at making decisions.

 

A persistent man shows that he wants more than just sex or a quick fling,and often times wins over the ladies affection.

 

I suppose if women asked men out, or were not so flighty, or were able to understand all of their feelings and emotions, persistence would not be necessary.

 

Nowhere did I advocate stalking, or being a sexual predator. If a man is charming he can pull it off.

[SoulSearch_CO]

It's interesting reading in this thread people saying that "in the old days" men could get away with this stuff whereas these days, they cannot. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that women used to defer to a man's opinion more often "back then." Men knew better than women what was good for women - was the prevailing opinion.

 

It seems to still be some kind of disease - thinking women can't make up their minds on their own. Because I've now seen several of you saying that women don't really know what they want, so it's up to the man to push what's good for the woman onto her.

 

One thing that did irritate me, though - was the one that said the law is on the woman's side. Hello? That's because men are physically stronger and a woman can be raped or killed by a man a hell of a lot easier than the other way around. By making light of such a thing, you minimize what has happened to actual victims of rape, assault, stalking, and murder. Let's remember that just because SOME people cry wolf, does not mean that every victim is over exaggerating the extent of the problem. It's a scary thing to be a woman with a man pursuing that you have no interest in - because you never can tell for sure just HOW FAR he's willing to go to get what he wants. And there is plenty of evidence that some men will take it by force.

[Ingenue]

There is a fine line between persistence and pestering. Being a woman who isn't an exemplar of some of the posters' gross generalizations of indecisiveness attributed to the female gender, I can concretely say that a man who is too persistent becomes a pain. I make my own decisions and when I have no interest in a man who I've very clearly told I wish only friendship from, his constant advances do little except drive me away.

 

In fact, rather than the persistence endearing the man to me, his actions end up aggravating me and give me pause in all subsequent interactions with him. If he has that little respect for my decisions that he cannot accept them, he is playing a fool's game if he thinks that he'll wear me down through time. The constant telephone calls, the emails, the imploring tones do nothing to positively sway my opinion of him.

 

When I think about putting myself in the other position, I would think that no man would want to be with a woman who he has to convince to love him. I would think that even if the man were successful he would have the thought in the back of his head that he had to cajole a relationship into fruition.

[Nathan Drake]

Im kind of at that same point, not sure if i should go any further or just stop outright. I asked a girl out this past Friday, she seemed interested, gave me her number etc etc. I go to call her the day after and get no response, so i send a text the day after that, again to no response. Seemed interested one minute, then the next, nothing. Im afraid if i call/text again ill come off over zealous(dont want to do that because we have a class together next semester) but if i dont call/text again it might seem like i was never really that interested.

[meerkat stew]

My dating life improved dramatically when I changed my perspective from meeting a particular woman and pursuing that woman until we were dating or she had clearly expressed a lack of interest to pursuing and dating several women simultaneously until one emerged as being more interested and compatible than the rest, and quickly eliminating those who weren't enthusiastically interested.

 

Trying to win someone's affection as part of a campaign over time can work sometimes, but more often, the time is better spent cultivating other options. This attitude has the fringe benefit of making one more attractive to all prospects, as people can tell when they are dealing with someone who is in demand or has other options.

 

This attitude also gives women the benefit of the doubt that they know what they want generally, and aren't as fickle as some like to believe, while weeding out the ones who are fickle and gamey quickly.

[SadandConfusedWA]

If I am strongly interested in a man, he won't have to pursue.

 

If I am on the fence about a man, him pursuing will make me give him a chance and something might develop.

 

If I have no interest in a man, I will be flattered but won't change my mind and will tell all my friends that he is a creepy stalker.

[meerkat stew]

If I am on the fence about a man, him pursuing will make me give him a chance and something might develop.

 

If I have no interest in a man, I will be flattered but won't change my mind and will tell all my friends that he is a creepy stalker.

 

Two guys do the same exact things, one becomes a prospect, one is a "stalker" that you then run down among your friends? Surely you are joking.

 

If not, this is the real danger of pursuing women who seem flattered but lukewarm, there's no way to tell whether she is mildly interested or sizing you up for a restraining order. This kind of nonsense is at the heart of men's complaints that women don't know what they want.

[b52s]

Two guys do the same exact things, one becomes a prospect, one is a "stalker" that you then run down among your friends? Surely you are joking.

 

If not, this is the real danger of pursuing women who seem flattered but lukewarm, there's no way to tell whether she is mildly interested or sizing you up for a restraining order. This kind of nonsense is at the heart of men's complaints that women don't know what they want.

 

Yeah, also a defamation of character. Why would you try to ruin his reputation like that?

[b52s]

It's interesting reading in this thread people saying that "in the old days" men could get away with this stuff whereas these days, they cannot. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that women used to defer to a man's opinion more often "back then." Men knew better than women what was good for women - was the prevailing opinion.

 

It seems to still be some kind of disease - thinking women can't make up their minds on their own. Because I've now seen several of you saying that women don't really know what they want, so it's up to the man to push what's good for the woman onto her.

 

One thing that did irritate me, though - was the one that said the law is on the woman's side. Hello? That's because men are physically stronger and a woman can be raped or killed by a man a hell of a lot easier than the other way around. By making light of such a thing, you minimize what has happened to actual victims of rape, assault, stalking, and murder. Let's remember that just because SOME people cry wolf, does not mean that every victim is over exaggerating the extent of the problem. It's a scary thing to be a woman with a man pursuing that you have no interest in - because you never can tell for sure just HOW FAR he's willing to go to get what he wants. And there is plenty of evidence that some men will take it by force.

 

 

There was a case, locally actually, where I live......where a woman falsely accused a man of rape.

 

The reason she did that was to save her arse from her fiance' from finding out she was cheating on him.

 

Apparently, all parties knew each other from highschool or something...and they ran into each other at a local pub/restaurant.

 

2 women....one was the engaged one....2 men....the woman invited them over to her place...while the other two chatted.

 

The engaged woman was flirting with one of the guys, they had sex...and she felt bad about it, because she realized she just cheated on her fiance', and so to "save face" she accused the guy of rape, and had him brought up on charges.

 

Luckily, the case wast thrown out of court because they were able to prove what she did was wrong...and SHE was brought up on charges of false rape accusations.

 

It's not uncommon this happens, and a lot of women attempt to lie because they're aware that the courts will believe them.

 

Fortunately, this attempt was thwarted. Though sometimes a guy has to spend at least one night in jail and suffer due to her sorry whims and regrets.

[b52s]

There is a fine line between persistence and pestering. Being a woman who isn't an exemplar of some of the posters' gross generalizations of indecisiveness attributed to the female gender, I can concretely say that a man who is too persistent becomes a pain. I make my own decisions and when I have no interest in a man who I've very clearly told I wish only friendship from, his constant advances do little except drive me away.

 

In fact, rather than the persistence endearing the man to me, his actions end up aggravating me and give me pause in all subsequent interactions with him. If he has that little respect for my decisions that he cannot accept them, he is playing a fool's game if he thinks that he'll wear me down through time. The constant telephone calls, the emails, the imploring tones do nothing to positively sway my opinion of him.

 

When I think about putting myself in the other position, I would think that no man would want to be with a woman who he has to convince to love him. I would think that even if the man were successful he would have the thought in the back of his head that he had to cajole a relationship into fruition.

 

 

Good point, if a man has to cajole a woman into dating him.....that means she probably wears the pants and has him wrapped around his little finger as well.

 

If he practically had to beg the woman "Pleeeassseee...date me...." on numerous occasions until she says with the least amt of enthusiasm,..."Ooookay...I'll date you!"

 

Gee...that's the kind of reaction we want, right? (what a joke) Chances are if the relationship does exists....and don't let the person fool you who ever posted they are in a HAPPY marriage...chances are he's just saying that...when really, chances are his marriage is miserable....but he COULD be the exception to the rule.

[SoulSearch_CO]

There was a case, locally actually, where I live......where a woman falsely accused a man of rape.

 

The reason she did that was to save her arse from her fiance' from finding out she was cheating on him.

 

Apparently, all parties knew each other from highschool or something...and they ran into each other at a local pub/restaurant.

 

2 women....one was the engaged one....2 men....the woman invited them over to her place...while the other two chatted.

 

The engaged woman was flirting with one of the guys, they had sex...and she felt bad about it, because she realized she just cheated on her fiance', and so to "save face" she accused the guy of rape, and had him brought up on charges.

 

Luckily, the case wast thrown out of court because they were able to prove what she did was wrong...and SHE was brought up on charges of false rape accusations.

 

It's not uncommon this happens, and a lot of women attempt to lie because they're aware that the courts will believe them.

 

Fortunately, this attempt was thwarted. Though sometimes a guy has to spend at least one night in jail and suffer due to her sorry whims and regrets.

So because it happens, reports of such should not be taken seriously? Yeah. That'll help victims out - not being believed by the cops because some women are ****ing stupid and make false reports. Sadly - you should know that FAR too many go UNREPORTED because women are afraid of not being taken seriously (or they believe it was their fault). It's not wise to shove it under the carpet just because some people abuse the system.

[calizaggy]

I am not talking about meeting a complete stranger, being blown off, and then stalking.

 

I am talking about the millions of guys who complain about getting "mixed signals". The woman who expresses interest, then retreats. Or the woman who has sex with the guy, then is confused about her feelings.

 

Many women are "afraid of getting hurt" so they do not quickly give all of themselves to any man they barely know, and whose intentions they are not sure about.

[SoulSearch_CO]

Couple of stats for you: http://www.vanderbilt.edu/ProjectSafe/assault.html

 

Myth: Rapes are usually committed by masked strangers hiding in dark alleyways.

Fact: Victims of rape and sexual assault report that in nearly 3 out of 4 incidents, the offender was somebody they knew.

 

Myth: Women often lie about being raped.

Fact: Only about 2% of all rape and related sex charges are determined to be false, the same percentage as for other felonies. Many cases are dropped because of insufficient evidence for conviction but this should not be confused with false reporting.

So I suppose, if one day you have a daughter and she comes to you and says she was raped, your answer will be, "Are you sure?"