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Can men and women really be friends?


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Old 30th July 2017, 8:10 AM   #1
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Can men and women really be friends?

First of all, we need to define what a friend is. When I say friend, I don't mean acquaintance or a friend in a group. I mean like a "best friend". That's basically what this is about. Can men and women be best friends?

Am I a selfish ***hole for wanting my "best friend" to like me more than a friend?

That I think it's either we are more than friends, or we stop talking all together?

I won't accept being #2 to another man. And at this point I feel like a cuck.

Because the way that I see things, why in the HELL, should she want to talk to ME if she is not interested in me in that way? If she wants to talk to someone, she should find a boyfriend and talk to him.

I'm special enough to be in her life but not special enough to be the man of her life.


That just makes no god damn sense to me.

I'm tired of feeling hurt. I'm tired of feeling like I'm the only one who cares. And I'm tired of feeling like this is just all fake bull****.

I have put a lot into this and now I've convinced myself that she only likes me because of the effort I have put in and how I make her feel.

I feel like I'm being used because she doesn't truly care about me.

I think I'm going to end it when she gets back from vacation and talk to her straight up and tell her that I don't think she really cares about me.

Am I wrong here? Why does it always feel like I'm being selfish. She acts like she values us and doesn't want it to end but why... what does she gain from this. If she's not willing to go all the way with me then I see fakeness in it all.

At the end of the day if she had a choice to pick 1 human to live with as the last 2 people on the entire planet, if it wasn't me, I don't see how this "friendship" could ever have been authentic. It's just bull**** and it makes no sense.

I know I have this "all or nothing" mentality and it can be reckless but I really feel deep down I am right about this.
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Old 30th July 2017, 8:28 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Ultraviolence View Post
I'm special enough to be in her life but not special enough to be the man of her life.
Pretty much sums it up.
I guess this is the online girl you have known for 6 years, have never met as she wasn't ready to meet you, and she is off on a 2 month vacation without you.

YOU have invested far too much in this girl.
YOU need to learn that relationships are two way streets.
When a person is not willing to go the extra mile for you, then you back off and find someone who does think that you are extra special.

Stop treating her as if she is the love of your life, she isn't, and start looking for real live girls locally, who you can have a real relationship with.
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Old 30th July 2017, 8:42 AM   #3
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Can men and women in general really be friends? Yes, they can.

Can you, OP, remain friends with someone you have obvious romantic feelings for? Seemingly not. The way you're describing it, she's not the one making it 'fake' because you're the one with the undeclared feelings. In effect, you're in an 'unrequited love' situation, not really a friendship. Sorry about that, OP.

You can tell her how you feel and risk loosing the 'friendship' (which looks one-sided atm in any case), you can keep the status quo and let your resentment build and risk loosing the 'friendship' in the long run, you can distance yourself from her and gradually loose the 'friendship' or you can keep a lid on your feelings so as to maintain an actual friendship if you can manage it.
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Old 30th July 2017, 8:49 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by elaine567 View Post
Pretty much sums it up.
I guess this is the online girl you have known for 6 years, have never met as she wasn't ready to meet you, and she is off on a 2 month vacation without you.

YOU have invested far too much in this girl.
YOU need to learn that relationships are two way streets.
When a person is not willing to go the extra mile for you, then you back off and find someone who does think that you are extra special.

Stop treating her as if she is the love of your life, she isn't, and start looking for real live girls locally, who you can have a real relationship with.
haha yeah it is, and I'm embarrassed about it because I know how absurd it sounds to everyone here.

I did try to make an effort this summer. I joined a yoga class downtown and had more plans of doing other things to try and meet people. I still am trying but it's not easy.

This has just been hard for me to deal with because I don't want to make a mistake cutting her out of my life out of selfishness. But as time goes on I see that it probably is going to happen. It's just sad I always thought she would be the one to end it, not me.

I agree. It is a 2 way street isn't it? I wanted to "love" her unconditionally but I don't think that kind of love really exists. Where would you draw the line on loving someone unconditionally? How would you choose how is deserving of that? Why not unconditionally love a squirrel over a human?

So I think you do need to give and receive in any kind of relationship right? It's sad but I think that's just the way this world works.

Anyway when she gets back I think she will see that I won't be the same person I used to be to her.

She can probably already sense it because I made myself unavailable and she tried to talk to me.

Kind of crazy how this whole love thing is like one big game.

She may not want me now because I want her. But as soon as I'm ****ing over it, I know she will most likely try to get me to come back.

Thanks for the advice.
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Old 30th July 2017, 9:02 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by littleblackheart View Post
Can men and women in general really be friends? Yes, they can.

Can you, OP, remain friends with someone you have obvious romantic feelings for? Seemingly not. The way you're describing it, she's not the one making it 'fake' because you're the one with the undeclared feelings. In effect, you're in an 'unrequited love' situation, not really a friendship. Sorry about that, OP.

You can tell her how you feel and risk loosing the 'friendship' (which looks one-sided atm in any case), you can keep the status quo and let your resentment build and risk loosing the 'friendship' in the long run, you can distance yourself from her and gradually loose the 'friendship' or you can keep a lid on your feelings so as to maintain an actual friendship if you can manage it.
You really nailed the perspective on this. I am 90% sure she knows how I feel about her (I told her once, a few years ago).

Am I the ***hole for not being able to remain friends with a romantic interest? Or is she possibly at fault for knowing how I feel but letting me continue to have my hopes up and invest in her.

If I'm 100% honest, I'm not the average guy. I'm not a society guy and those are exactly the kind of guys I am losing her to. I don't want to seem like I'm some weird misanthropist or something like that. But I don't respect today's society and in a way, she's a part of it. I feel like she is choosing mindless narcissistic bull**** over me.

We used to talk everyday for the past 6 years and for these past 2 months I've been alone because I kind of "ditched" my brother/friends because I went "all in" into this.

That's why I'm having such a hard time with this because I spent the last 6 years building something and now I'm supposed to just walk away from it all.

I've gotten used to being alone now and it's at the point where I would rather be alone than be a part of something fake.
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Old 30th July 2017, 9:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ultraviolence View Post
You really nailed the perspective on this. I am 90% sure she knows how I feel about her (I told her once, a few years ago).

Am I the ***hole for not being able to remain friends with a romantic interest? Or is she possibly at fault for knowing how I feel but letting me continue to have my hopes up and invest in her.

If I'm 100% honest, I'm not the average guy. I'm not a society guy and those are exactly the kind of guys I am losing her to. I don't want to seem like I'm some weird misanthropist or something like that. But I don't respect today's society and in a way, she's a part of it. I feel like she is choosing mindless narcissistic bull**** over me.

We used to talk everyday for the past 6 years and for these past 2 months I've been alone because I kind of "ditched" my brother/friends because I went "all in" into this.

That's why I'm having such a hard time with this because I spent the last 6 years building something and now I'm supposed to just walk away from it all.

I've gotten used to being alone now and it's at the point where I would rather be alone than be a part of something fake.
I can't speak for her obviously, but there is always the chance that she maintained contact with you because she enjoyed your company, as a friend.

Feelings develop overtime, which would be natural if you have been talking everyday for the past 6 years, but even you must know that this situation isn't very healthy. I hear what you're saying with regards the state of society but there are still some good people around, honest .

It also sounds like your concerns go beyond this specific situation: is there an option for you to rebuild your relationship with your brother or friends, even if this means eating some humble pie?

Last edited by littleblackheart; 30th July 2017 at 9:45 AM..
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Old 30th July 2017, 2:59 PM   #7
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Women love an interpersonal relationship and aren't so obsessed with sex that they can't have one with a man. Men ultimately want sex and are less likely to be able to handle that UNLESS they are so cool and hot that they have plenty of other options for sex with women, and those are the few guys I've been really good friends with.

She doesn't like you that way. It doesn't sound like she's misled you at all. You know she's dating still looking for "the guy," so you obviously are not it. You should just pack it in and get out of her life and move on before it turns ugly. Women don't like guys who hang around under the guise of friendship, listen to all their secrets, and then try to move in on them after it's too late. It's a feeling of betrayal. So unless you told her from the first you wanted more and she said "maybe" or "yes," she's done nothing wrong here.
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Old 30th July 2017, 3:46 PM   #8
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How is that anyone's fault but your own? Be more direct and honest about your intentions with people. Be real in order to get it in return.

How on earth does one go 6 years (!) without telling a woman he fancies her when speaking to her all the time? No flirting, sexting, nothing.

Where is her motivation to meet up? What is there that you provide which can't be accessed over whatsapp (or whatever)? There is no sexual part of the relationship to consummate (as it were), and therefore nowhere for the relationship to go. You aren't having honest enough communication to even discuss this with her. Therefore, it's not on the agenda - nor should you consider it such.

If you met, what makes you think you'd suddenly turn into Casanova? From 6 years of orbiting to a sexual dynamic in one meeting is absurd. I don't think you understand how women work. The thought probably repulses her, because that's how women think about sleeping with their "friends". When a woman's feelings for you are severely repulsed, it's far easier to just get another woman instead.

You need a short sharp shock to break you out this frame of mind.

Just consider it a set that you blew. Move on to the next girl. And do the opposite of everything you've done here with the next one.
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Old 31st July 2017, 1:05 AM   #9
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I agree that it is my fault for not always being up front with her but in a way, she's at fault too. The way we talked to each other is not how you should talk to your friend. So in my mind the way our connection was flowing just made me believe it was ultimately headed in that direction. I didn't think anything needed to be said. She did give me those mixed singals through out the years. I think I'm the reason she didn't mind not having a boyfriend (when I met her she did). She even went chasity (or however you say it) for a while and even once said she would stay that way if I did ( <---- I mean it's **** like that that made me put all my chips in the middle for her).

I have invested a lot of myself into her, I know again that is my fault because maybe she doesn't realize it. Even though she's an attractive female (and very easily getting with "chads" on her vacation right now), she did stay indoors a lot and would spend 90% her time with me. I found it extremely hard to do anything else. I felt guilty every time I went to the gym, the store, and even things like getting food or taking a shower.

That's how much we talked. She would tell me she missed me even if I was gone for like 5 minutes. I really love her for who she is and I admire everything about her.

I'm willing to remain friends with her but I won't treat her like she's my girlfriend anymore. And watch that be the downfall of our friendship. When she comes back and I'm not focusing on her, instead I'll be focusing on myself. She's going to have a problem with that and I'll be the ***hole for not wanting to feel like a cuck.
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Old 4th August 2017, 3:38 AM   #10
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Useat ihmiset uskovat, että mies ja nainen voivat olla platonisia ystäviä. Se on mahdollista, mutta ei alusta alkaen, yksi tärkeimmistä syistä.

Tällainen on täydellinen rakastaja
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Old 4th August 2017, 8:59 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ultraviolence View Post
First of all, we need to define what a friend is. When I say friend, I don't mean acquaintance or a friend in a group. I mean like a "best friend". That's basically what this is about. Can men and women be best friends?

Am I a selfish ***hole for wanting my "best friend" to like me more than a friend?

That I think it's either we are more than friends, or we stop talking all together?

I won't accept being #2 to another man. And at this point I feel like a cuck.

Because the way that I see things, why in the HELL, should she want to talk to ME if she is not interested in me in that way? If she wants to talk to someone, she should find a boyfriend and talk to him.

I'm special enough to be in her life but not special enough to be the man of her life.


That just makes no god damn sense to me.

I'm tired of feeling hurt. I'm tired of feeling like I'm the only one who cares. And I'm tired of feeling like this is just all fake bull****.

I have put a lot into this and now I've convinced myself that she only likes me because of the effort I have put in and how I make her feel.

I feel like I'm being used because she doesn't truly care about me.

I think I'm going to end it when she gets back from vacation and talk to her straight up and tell her that I don't think she really cares about me.

Am I wrong here? Why does it always feel like I'm being selfish. She acts like she values us and doesn't want it to end but why... what does she gain from this. If she's not willing to go all the way with me then I see fakeness in it all.

At the end of the day if she had a choice to pick 1 human to live with as the last 2 people on the entire planet, if it wasn't me, I don't see how this "friendship" could ever have been authentic. It's just bull**** and it makes no sense.

I know I have this "all or nothing" mentality and it can be reckless but I really feel deep down I am right about this.
Now you're starting to get why you should never set yourself up to be friendzoned.
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Old 4th August 2017, 1:50 PM   #12
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Now you're starting to get why you should never set yourself up to be friendzoned.
Yeah, I had to learn the hard way. I'm almost over it now. I'm telling myself I should stay friends with her just for her sake. I don't give a **** about being alone anymore, I can handle it. I do try to remind myself of the good times I've had with her and I miss them. The thing is if I feel like she isn't being considerate towards my feelings anymore my tolerance level is gone for that. I can see myself being more open and if I feel like I'm being disrespected I might tell her straight up instead of hiding it now, which might cause arguments or problems down the road.

Last edited by Ultraviolence; 4th August 2017 at 1:52 PM..
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Old 10th August 2017, 7:12 PM   #13
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Hmm

Speak up, dude ...
You have all this resentment from expectations never met, but you never put yourself forward in the first place.
What is it that makes it hard to speak up?


You need to make a decision to either conceal or reveal.
It's not fair to either of you and you are hurt for all the wrong reasons.

I can't speak for her, but I would never throw a friend away for confessing feelings.

Sometimes the timing is just wrong.
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Old 11th August 2017, 4:44 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Ultraviolence View Post
First of all, we need to define what a friend is. When I say friend, I don't mean acquaintance or a friend in a group. I mean like a "best friend". That's basically what this is about. Can men and women be best friends?

Am I a selfish ***hole for wanting my "best friend" to like me more than a friend?

That I think it's either we are more than friends, or we stop talking all together?

I won't accept being #2 to another man. And at this point I feel like a cuck.

Because the way that I see things, why in the HELL, should she want to talk to ME if she is not interested in me in that way? If she wants to talk to someone, she should find a boyfriend and talk to him.

I'm special enough to be in her life but not special enough to be the man of her life.


That just makes no god damn sense to me.

I'm tired of feeling hurt. I'm tired of feeling like I'm the only one who cares. And I'm tired of feeling like this is just all fake bull****.

I have put a lot into this and now I've convinced myself that she only likes me because of the effort I have put in and how I make her feel.

I feel like I'm being used because she doesn't truly care about me.

I think I'm going to end it when she gets back from vacation and talk to her straight up and tell her that I don't think she really cares about me.

Am I wrong here? Why does it always feel like I'm being selfish. She acts like she values us and doesn't want it to end but why... what does she gain from this. If she's not willing to go all the way with me then I see fakeness in it all.

At the end of the day if she had a choice to pick 1 human to live with as the last 2 people on the entire planet, if it wasn't me, I don't see how this "friendship" could ever have been authentic. It's just bull**** and it makes no sense.

I know I have this "all or nothing" mentality and it can be reckless but I really feel deep down I am right about this.
Sure can. I have hung out with many woman just as friends. They just like a guy friend to me.

Whats the big deal?
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Old 11th August 2017, 7:21 AM   #15
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This thread made me be able to say what should have been said years ago.

So, what if this girl is obsessed with you, but in a healthy way? ... What if she has no idea you love her and hopes that you feel the same way?

I have a really close friend and I love him to the point of letting my life change at the flip of a hat to keep him in my life, but .. I kept that from him and never acted that way, because he rejected me a couple years in the past and ever since then I never thought I had a chance ...

I had a chance, but I'm not a cheater or homewrecker and neither is he.

So, maybe she is hiding feelings herself for the sake of not risking him in her life.
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