one-upmanship in conversations

[HansonGirl]

last night i went out to dinner with a few people and first of all, i felt invisible - like they didn't listen to me at all - but secondly, i felt like the whole conversation was everybody just trying to one up the other - trying to come up with the most impressive and unique story to share.

I noticed that nobody was asking questions trying to get to know each other - rather they were just too interested in trying to brag about themselves.

 

the part most astonishing to me is how i felt like i would say things and they would just flat out ignore me, and continue talking as though i never said anything- i mean if they couldn't HEAR me, nobody stopped and said, "i'm sorry, what was that?" - so i really have no idea if that's the case. But maybe they just decided they don't like me and aren't interested in what I have to say but I found it really rude. at the end of the discussion i felt like it was a huge waste of my time and money to go to this dinner and i felt left out

 

it's really not my style to try to out-do someone so I didn't really partake in the game of oneupmanship. is that the problem? Are all conversations like this these days? I'm sure I am doing something wrong in the conversation - but I don't know what i can do to change. at the very least i'd like to ENJOY things like this rather than to feel like an invisible ghost. I mean how can four people go out to dinner and three of them decide they are going to ignore one of the people. i gradually stopped saying anything.

[Jabron1]

Sorry love, but you need better friends.

 

I know what you mean though. It seems there are a lot of these people now. The sort of people who want to do things, just to say that they've done them, and to update their Facebook page. Everything is about showing off.

 

Not my kind of people. These people aren't friends. Get rid.

[Offspring]

Unfortunately, quiter people can get lost in these situations. It sounds like you don't have much in common with them. Don't change who you are, maybe these people each are more thoughtful when they're on their own? Group dynamics is a weird thing!

 

Feeling invisible sucks. I would have ended up shoutong at them even it was once, just to let them know i was there, but you kept your dignity. Good for you.

[TaraMaiden2]

I know it sounds daft, but it also sometimes depends where you're sat, at the table, in relation to the more outgoing people.

 

They tend to gravitate towards the centre seats, to be part of the hub.

The close to the hub, the more attention people pay you.

 

On the outer fringes, you're away from the main gist, and it's actually quite common for those people on the outer edges to not get a look-in at discussions.

 

Arrive early, bag a central seat, and see the difference it makes.

 

(I've experienced both, and it seems to be a pattern....)

[Taramere]

the part most astonishing to me is how i felt like i would say things and they would just flat out ignore me, and continue talking as though i never said anything- i mean if they couldn't HEAR me, nobody stopped and said, "i'm sorry, what was that?" - so i really have no idea if that's the case. But maybe they just decided they don't like me and aren't interested in what I have to say but I found it really rude. at the end of the discussion i felt like it was a huge waste of my time and money to go to this dinner and i felt left out

 

it's really not my style to try to out-do someone so I didn't really partake in the game of oneupmanship. is that the problem? Are all conversations like this these days? I'm sure I am doing something wrong in the conversation - but I don't know what i can do to change. at the very least i'd like to ENJOY things like this rather than to feel like an invisible ghost. I mean how can four people go out to dinner and three of them decide they are going to ignore one of the people. i gradually stopped saying anything.

 

I wouldn't go out with those people again. There are certainly times I've been with a more extrovert group, and I've tended to take a back seat. In those situations, if I'm really starting to feel left out I will either zone out and go into my own world for a bit in order to recharge (very extrovert groups can tire me out) or I'll switch into observation/information gathering mode.

 

But usually in those situations I'll find that the "feeling left out" phase is a temporary thing - and before long I'll be brought into the conversation again, or I'll suddenly feel so enthusiastic about a contribution I want to make that the others will sit back and let me have at it. Mind you, in the case of the latter it often goes badly. I'll leap in excitedly with a point I want to make or a story I want to tell, and it'll fall a bit flat. I'm not great at relaying anecdote to groups unless I'm drunk/in a particularly excitable mood.

 

But to be out in a group of 4 people and to be excluded in the way you describe really sucks. Frankly if that were happening to me, I'd take a quick loo visit and then I'd approach one of the waiting staff and ask them to total up my share of the bill. I'd pay it with a tip, and then I'd return to the group and say "I'm really sorry, but I've just had a phone call about something urgent. I'm going to have to call off early. I've paid my share of the bill. Enjoy the rest of your evening - and again, I'm so sorry to be rude and to have to duck out like this."

 

Then they could bitch about me all they liked or speculate on whether I was telling a lie about having to be called away, but frankly - I would want them to conclude that I was telling a lie as an excuse to leave their company. Life's too short to sit in tolerant solitude in a situation like that where the conversation you're being left out of isn't even an interesting one that you can learn anything fun or useful from.

[Alamo657]

last night i went out to dinner with a few people and first of all, i felt invisible - like they didn't listen to me at all - but secondly, i felt like the whole conversation was everybody just trying to one up the other - trying to come up with the most impressive and unique story to share.

I noticed that nobody was asking questions trying to get to know each other - rather they were just too interested in trying to brag about themselves.

 

the part most astonishing to me is how i felt like i would say things and they would just flat out ignore me, and continue talking as though i never said anything- i mean if they couldn't HEAR me, nobody stopped and said, "i'm sorry, what was that?" - so i really have no idea if that's the case. But maybe they just decided they don't like me and aren't interested in what I have to say but I found it really rude. at the end of the discussion i felt like it was a huge waste of my time and money to go to this dinner and i felt left out

 

it's really not my style to try to out-do someone so I didn't really partake in the game of oneupmanship. is that the problem? Are all conversations like this these days? I'm sure I am doing something wrong in the conversation - but I don't know what i can do to change. at the very least i'd like to ENJOY things like this rather than to feel like an invisible ghost. I mean how can four people go out to dinner and three of them decide they are going to ignore one of the people. i gradually stopped saying anything.

 

Unfortunately in the upper classes of society (people with a degree and an exciting career), this attitude is commonplace. If you're not doing anything out of the ordinary, you're nothing.

 

Find other people to hang out with.

[HansonGirl]

Unfortunately in the upper classes of society (people with a degree and an exciting career), this attitude is commonplace. If you're not doing anything out of the ordinary, you're nothing.

 

Find other people to hang out with.

 

Here's the part that is the most hilarious. So all of us have the same advanced degree (except for the one bragging the most actually- who lacks any advanced degree) and the ones who do have one, know that I went to top schools for both undergraduate AND graduate school. I assume the guy without any degree knows where I went. Meanwhile the other two went to mediocre state schools that compete with one another - throughout the conversation they made jokes about that - implicating the fact that they were rival schools, etc. yet I'm sitting there left out of the conversation, even though I went to a far better school than them, just because I don't name drop some celebrity. I actually ran into celebrities more than once while attending my graduate school (which was in a major metropolitan city), but i cannot think of a natural time to even mention that... unlike these people who never lived in a metropolitan city but according to them not only run into celebrities all the time but always have these super comical or interesting interactions with them. In my stories I just leave the celebrities alone, like everyone around me, because they were just trying to live their day to day lives.

(and i feel like an a#$ just mentioning that here -- those people would have been dying to brag about that)

 

I think it's a personality thing and a generational thing- too much social media telling people that they are the center of the universe. And there are indeed SOME people like this from my school as well. (not most, but definitely some). People who just love to pat themselves on the bag instead of genuinely being interested in another person.

 

I just hate leaving an evening feeling insignificant, even when I am not insignificant - when sometimes I think i am better than these people. I honestly don't actually THINK that before going into it -- but afterwards, when these people are bragging about themselves and acting like they are these superior intellectuals, like i'm not even there, I almost want to remind them "no you ain't." In my mind, a truly confident person does not need to brag about themselves. So in a way I question my confidence right now for feeling like crap - but i don't like to sit through a conversation and feel like nothing I am saying is being heard. It's not like I would even be bragging about my accomplishments, but if that's where this conversation is going I feel like I have to.

[Taramere]

Unfortunately in the upper classes of society (people with a degree and an exciting career), this attitude is commonplace. If you're not doing anything out of the ordinary, you're nothing.

 

Find other people to hang out with.

 

I always thought you needed many millions in assets and/or a title to even be considered for the status of revered member of the upper classes, but now I know that a degree and a drama-filled career are all that's required, I'll be making a point of snubbing people who don't share my super-elite status.

 

Hang on. Why am I even engaging with you people? Excuse I, I has important Illuminati stuff to attend to.

[Jabron1]

Here's the part that is the most hilarious. So all of us have the same advanced degree (except for the one bragging the most actually- who lacks any advanced degree) and the ones who do have one, know that I went to top schools for both undergraduate AND graduate school. I assume the guy without any degree knows where I went. Meanwhile the other two went to mediocre state schools that compete with one another - throughout the conversation they made jokes about that - implicating the fact that they were rival schools, etc. yet I'm sitting there left out of the conversation, even though I went to a far better school than them, just because I don't name drop some celebrity. I actually ran into celebrities more than once while attending my graduate school (which was in a major metropolitan city), but i cannot think of a natural time to even mention that... unlike these people who never lived in a metropolitan city but according to them not only run into celebrities all the time but always have these super comical or interesting interactions with them. In my stories I just leave the celebrities alone, like everyone around me, because they were just trying to live their day to day lives.

(and i feel like an a#$ just mentioning that here -- those people would have been dying to brag about that)

 

I think it's a personality thing and a generational thing- too much social media telling people that they are the center of the universe. And there are indeed SOME people like this from my school as well. (not most, but definitely some). People who just love to pat themselves on the bag instead of genuinely being interested in another person.

 

I just hate leaving an evening feeling insignificant, even when I am not insignificant - when sometimes I think i am better than these people. I honestly don't actually THINK that before going into it -- but afterwards, when these people are bragging about themselves and acting like they are these superior intellectuals, like i'm not even there, I almost want to remind them "no you ain't." In my mind, a truly confident person does not need to brag about themselves. So in a way I question my confidence right now for feeling like crap - but i don't like to sit through a conversation and feel like nothing I am saying is being heard. It's not like I would even be bragging about my accomplishments, but if that's where this conversation is going I feel like I have to.

 

This is like reading 'American Psycho'.

 

Go and find some real friends.

[elaine567]

Why were you out to dinner with these people?

They sound like wannabes to me.

[Taramere]

I think it's a personality thing and a generational thing- too much social media telling people that they are the center of the universe.

 

Temperament - definitely. If a person's either very extrovert or is keen to present as being extrovert then I think they're going to want to perform rather than observe. I find introverts tend to be more interesting to speak to because they've got the sort of insights that come from spending more time observing than performing....but in group situations, they can easily be lost/talked over.

 

There's also upbringing. An extrovert who enjoys performing will nonetheless, I think, be keen to bring quieter people into the conversation if they've been brought up with good manners. It's the good host or hostess thing. When I was a child, my birthday parties weren't just a treat. They were events where I was expected to play the role of hostess - even from an early age. I witnessed the same from other children whose parties I went to (that they were expected to work fairly hard to ensure that everybody had a good time). The kids who had been brought up with that value would tend to gravitate towards eachother.

 

So in a way I question my confidence right now for feeling like crap - but i don't like to sit through a conversation and feel like nothing I am saying is being heard. It's not like I would even be bragging about my accomplishments, but if that's where this conversation is going I feel like I have to.

 

Of course not. Nobody wants to spend their evening like that.

 

It's laughable for anybody to suggest that this is typical of the way educated people behave. It's the way arrogant people behave - and arrogance can feature in any setting. It isn't restricted to a particular class, or educational level, or culture or any sort of socio-economic group. If an arrogant person manages to work their way into a polite social setting, they probably won't get called out for their arrogance. They might be sent subtle clues that they're being an idiot, but they'll probably fail to pick up on them.

 

I think you've every right to feel superior to people who behaved in this way. All that feeling superior in that context means is that you value manners highly, that you're confident you would never behave in the way that they did towards a quieter member of a group...and that you think less of them for the way they behaved. I think the only people who wouldn't feel superior to a bunch of people like that, in the circumstances you describe, would be people who don't place much value on a good upbringing.

 

So my advice would be to revel for a short time in the whirlpool of feeling smarter and better behaved than these people (but not for too long), then forget about them.

[HansonGirl]

Why were you out to dinner with these people?

They sound like wannabes to me.

 

Well, 2 were coworkers and 1 was the spouse of one of the coworkers, who i had never met before (that's why i assume he knew info about us, since the spouse probably told him). The thing is I do not call these people my friends, but I guess the next time this trio comes up with the idea to go out again, I will just have to give them a resounding NO. Of course, perhaps they thought i was so unimpressive and uninteresting they won't invite me!

[elaine567]

Well, 2 were coworkers and 1 was the spouse of one of the coworkers, who i had never met before (that's why i assume he knew info about us, since the spouse probably told him). The thing is I do not call these people my friends, but I guess the next time this trio comes up with the idea to go out again, I will just have to give them a resounding NO. Of course, perhaps they thought i was so unimpressive and uninteresting they won't invite me!

 

I think individually they may be OK people but together it became a competition. I think once that bragging starts people get riled up and want to beat the others with deeds, stories and anecdotes and thus "win".

It may be better next time as they have sussed each other out and they can relax a bit more. Next time they may realise you are also in the room.

[fands]

I mean how can four people go out to dinner and three of them decide they are going to ignore one of the people.

Actually, it's a big fad these days to get together as a group and find out who can ask the most rhetorical questions. How could anyone not find that incredibly stimulating.